Devotees CT03-076

Published on August 22nd, 2015 | by HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada | Full size image


Disciple of Krishna or Disciple of Kali?

He says, ‘Here is a servant of Kali. He has got a tilaka and neck beads, that’s all.’ He does not know what is the philosophy. If you simply mark your body with tilaka and kanthi, then you are not proper servant, you are not qualified.

Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.3, Los Angeles, June 4, 1976

Pradyumna: Translation: “The blessed messengers of Lord Visnu, the Visnudutas, said: If you are actually servants of Yamaraja, you must explain to us the meaning of religious principles and the symptoms of irreligion.”


sri visnuduta ucuh
yuyam vai dharma-rajasya
yadi nirdesa-karinah
bruta dharmasya nas tattvam
yac cadharmasya laksanam

They challenged, the Yamadutas challenged: “Who are you, interfering in our business? We have come to arrest him.” So, before talking, the, the counterchallenge was that “You spoke that ‘We are servants of Dharmaraja. So it is his jurisdiction… This person is impious. So this is the jurisdiction of Dharmaraja. He has to try the case and give him punishment, criminal department, law and order. So, you cannot interfere with us.’ ” Therefore the challenge is replied by Visnudutas that “If you are actually representative of Dharmaraja, who tries the case of dharma and adharma, first of all explain what is dharma and what is adharma.

This is very nice challenge. Suppose if somebody, if you say that “We are Krsna conscious persons.” So one may challenge you, “First of all, explain what do you know about Krsna?” That is quite natural. If you do not know about Krsna, you have no right to say that “I belong to the Krsna consciousness movement.” You have not right to say. So your position is like that, simply if you have a tilaka and a kanthi, that does not mean that you belong to the Krsna consciousness movement. Any cheater can do that. You must know the philosophy. If one challenges, you must reply. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung a song indicating these cheaters. He says, ei oto ek kalir cela(?). “Here is a servant of Kali.” What kind of cela? Na te tilal golai mala (?). “He has got a tilaka and golai mala, bas, that’s all.” He does not know what is the philosophy. If you do not know the philosophy of Krsna consciousness, if you simply mark your body with tilaka and kanthi, then you are not proper servant, you are not qualified. So tilaka, mala, is necessary. Just like a policeman. A bogus man, if he dresses like a policeman, he is not a policeman. He must know what is the police law, criminal law, who is to be punished, who is not to be punished, what is criminality, what is innocence. All these things he must know.

So here is a very good challenge, that “You are talking that you are the servant of Dharmaraja. I know Dharmaraja.” It is not that… Because they must know. They are coming from Lord Visnu, and they know that everyone is servant of Krsna. Ekale isvara krsna, ara saba bhrtya, yaiche nacaya, se taiche kare nrtya, in Caitanya-caritamrta. The master is one, Krsna or God. There cannot be two masters. That is not possible. Or two Gods. You cannot say, “In our faith, God is like this.” That is nonsense. God is one. You cannot say, “In our country, gold is like this.” No. Gold is everywhere the same. Either in your country or my country, it doesn’t matter. Gold is gold everywhere. You cannot say “Christian gold,” “Muslim gold,” and “Hindu gold.” No. Similarly, you cannot say “Hindu God,” “Muslim God,” “Christian God.” No. God is one. Otherwise, there is no God. The definition of God is eka brahma dvitiya nasti. There cannot be any competitor of God. Just like nowadays so many rascals are coming, presenting, “I am God.” What kind of God you are? You must check before accepting one rascal as God, what is God.

The description of God is there in the sastra: yasyaika-nisvasita kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah. That is God. By His breathing, millions of universes are coming with exhaling. And when He’s inhaling, billions of universes are going within. Can you show like that? That is also not original God. That is plenary expansion of God. Yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya jivanti loma-vilaja jagad-anda-nathah visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-visesa. This transaction is going on in the body of Maha-Visnu. The material world is being created and annihilated. When there is exhaling, the universes are coming into existence; when there is inhaling, it is all finished. This material world is like that. It is not permanent. Everyone got such experience. Your body, it has a beginning at a certain date from your father and mother. It stays for some time, it develops, it gives some by-products, then it becomes old and you finish. This is material body. Everybody knows it. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation, what you are seeing, so big things–it may be very big thing, but the process is the same. Either you take the body of an ant or you take the body of Brahmaji or… The process, the same rules and regulations. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi. There is no change. So that is God. God is producing by His exhaling, inhaling, so many universes. Why should you take such a cheap God? As soon as the God has got some toothache, he goes to the dentist. And he’s God! Don’t take such cheap Gods. We don’t take them. At least, we Krsna conscious persons. Just to accept Krsna as God…

Arjuna, he knew that Krsna is God. Therefore he requested Krsna, “My dear Krsna, can You show me Your form how You are universally working?” And He showed His universal form, how it is working, that is described in the Eleventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita. Why? Arjuna knew from the very beginning that “Krsna is the Supreme Lord; I am His servant.” But either by Krsna’s yoga-maya or Arjuna’s humility, he played that “My family is more important than Your service.” He played like that. At last, he agreed that karisye vacanam tava. So, Krsna and Arjuna, they’re teaching us by playing, because Krsna can play with His devotee, not with others. Most confidential devotee. What He wants to teach. So Arjuna presented himself as ordinary human being. He’s not ordinary human being; he’s personal friend of Krsna. He cannot be bewildered, but he played the part of ordinary being, that “I have got attachment with my family. Why shall I kill them by Your order, and what is this, what is that?” so many, you know. Bhagavad-gita, there are questions and answers. And at last, Krsna said that “Give up this foolishness. Surrender unto Me.” So he agreed, Arjuna. That is perfection. That is perfection.

So here the same thing. Krsna said… Krsna described what is the meaning of dharma. Here the question is that “If you are servant of Dharmaraja, then explain what is dharma and adharma.Dharma means religiosity, and adharma means nonreligiosity. What is adharma? Everything is… Because this world is duality. If there is black, there is white. If there is good, there is bad. If there is father, there is son. Otherwise, there is no meaning of son, eh, father. “I am father, bachelor daddy.” No. If you are father, you must have a son. If you are a son, then you must have a father. If the son says, “I dropped from the sky,” how it is possible? These rascals say it that there is no creator. How is that there is no creator? First of all, prove that you have no creator. Your father has created. How you can say there is no creator? Silent. The rascal is silent. You are talking of “There is no creator,” but you, yourself, you were created by your father. So these rascals are talking foolishly and other foolish persons are accepting them. But we are not so intelligent. Our answer is that “You say there is no creator. How you are created?” It may be we are rascals also, but this is our simple questions.

This morning I was asking that why there is Sunday first and Monday second? Who can answer? Is there anyone in this meeting who can answer my, this simple question? Why, all over the world, the, everyone accepts Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sambar, Mangalbar, Bhurbar, the same thing? There may be different language. And Saturday is last. Why this arrangement? Who can answer? Is there anyone? I’ve asked this simple question to so many. Even Svarupa Damodara, our doctor Ph.D., he has not yet answered. And I’ve asked this question to Dr. Wolfe also. He’s not present here?

Devotee: “Someone has an answer.”

Prabhupada: You have got answer?

Caitanya-simha: Because Sunday is God’s day. Sunday is Krsna’s day.

Prabhupada: That is your sentiment. Speak scientifically. Nowadays, the scientific days, you have to speak scientifically.

Devotee: The order of the planets.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the answer. Anyway, he has got the right to ask that “You are representing Dharmaraja. First of all, explain what is dharma. Then we shall understand that you are representative or order-carrier or servant of Dharmaraja.” That will be explained.

So here, in the Bhagavad-gita, we also can understand what is dharma. This is the question and answers between Yamadutas. But if you are serious student of Bhagavad-gita, we can understand what is dharma. Krsna says in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, abhyutthanam adharmasya. Just like this world is duality. If you are sick, that means you are not healthy. And if you are healthy, then you are not sick. Duality. There are two things, sickness and health. So if you are really religious, you are not religious(?). Nonreligious; not nonreligious. Two negatives make one positive. So two things are there. Religiosity and nonreligiosity. So duality. So Krsna says two things that yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. When there are discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles… So there is religion. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir. Glanir means discrepancies. When there is discrepancies of religious principles and abhyutthanam adharmasya, and the society is prominent in doing sinful activities, abhyutthanam… If you are not religious, then you must be irreligious. Two things are there. If there is no light, it is darkness. If it is not darkness, it is light. Similarly, two things cannot go. Either you are a demon or you are Krsna conscious, godly. This is the conclusion. Dvau bhuta-sargau loke (‘smin) daiva asura eva ca. There are two kinds of men in this world. Not only in this world, throughout the whole universe. Two kinds. No third. What is that? Daiva asura eva ca. One is godly, another is demon. So what is the difference? Visnu bhakto bhaved daiva. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Lord, they are called demigods, or godly. Asuras tad-viparyayah. And those who are opposite number, they are demons.

So we have got two tests. One test is sufficient. If one is not devotee, if one is not Krsna conscious, he’s a demon, has finished our conclusion. We simply ask whether you are Krsna conscious, whether you know Krsna. If he says, “No, I don’t know…” I think our Syamasundara’s daughter is… She used to preach. She used to go to any elderly person when she was four years old. “Do you know Krsna?” she said. So he says, “No, I don’t know.” “Oh, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” This is preaching. Finish, preaching. A child can preach. A child can understand, “Do you know God?” “No.” “You are a demon.” (laughter) Finished. Where is the difficulty? As soon as you say “I do not know God,” you are a demon. Bas. First-class demon. “I am scientist.” “You are rascal.” “No, I have studied, I have got my degrees.” “Mayayapahrta-jnana. (laughter) Rascal, you have studied so long, simply waste of time. Your real knowledge is taken away because you do not know God.” That is described. We have got very simple test in Krsna consciousness movement how to distinguish between an intelligent man a rascal. As soon as we understand that he’s not Krsna conscious, he’s a rascal. Bas. There is no need of testing. Even though he’s M.A., Ph.D, D.H.C. and so on, so on, still we shall call him a rascal. This is open challenge; it is not secret. How? Canakya Pandita has said, tyaja durjana-samsargam vidyaya ‘pi alankrto san. He very nicely says that rascals and fools, must give up their company. Tyaja durjana-samsargam. “No, I have got many friends, they are university educated.” But he says, vidyayalankrto ‘pi san. Even they are with degrees of M.A. Ph.D., tyaja durjana samsargam vidyayalankrto ‘pi san. Even he is educated, so-called educated, he’s not educated. Anyone who does not know God, he’s not educated, he’s a rascal. This is our conclusion. Not our conclusions, this is sastra’s conclusion. So “He has got so many degrees and he’s rascal and he’s durjana, a bad man?” “Yes.” “Why?” Now manina bhusitah sarpah kim asau na bhayankarah. Suppose a serpent, he has got a gem on his head. Is it not fearful? Very good example. Suppose a snake comes here and he, it has a jewel on the head. So you’ll be all safe? (laughter) No. He’s dangerous.

So that is going on. So-called educated scientist, degrees, what they’re doing? Atom bomb, kill men. This is their scientific discovery: that you can kill a man with a knife, one man or two men; now we have got scientific discovery, millions of men in a moment. Come on, discovery. So why don’t you discover something that millions of hospitals, diseased men can be brought into life again? That we cannot do. Kill, killing, killing is going on. What you have discovered? So this is their scientific… Discover something and declare that there is no more death. Here is medicine. Then that is scientific discovery. What is this nonsense? People are dying, and you have discovered something to facilitate death? Is that discovery? Therefore they are this snake with jewel. That’s all. They’re not gentlemen even. A gentlemen thinks that “I shall kill so many persons by dropping one atom bomb. I have discovered such nonsense thing”? And they are going on as scientist. So be careful. They are like snakes with jewel on the head. That’s all. So they do not know.

So here we must know what is dharma and what is adharma. Simply rubberstamp, “I am Christian,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” “I am this…,” like the tilaka and mala. No. You must know the science. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends, ye krsna-tattva-vetta sei ‘guru’ haya. Any person who knows about Krsna perfectly well, he is guru. That’s all. He is guru. So we have to learn this science, what is dharma, what is religion, what is irreligion, what is God. That is human life. Simply talking all nonsense, “There is no God and there is no creation,” don’t waste your time. Don’t waste your time. The human life is very, very valuable. This is the time. In cat’s and dog’s life… We cannot invite the cats and dogs in this temple and take this lesson on Bhagavata and Bhagavad-gita. We invite human beings. We invite human beings because there is chance. Athato brahma-jijnasa. A human being can understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God. And if we act according to that, our life is successful. Simply denying God and manufacturing atom bomb and killing, is that civilization? No.

Thank you very much. (end)

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8 Responses to Disciple of Krishna or Disciple of Kali?

  1. Hare Krishna

    Please accept my humble obeisances.

    All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
    All glories to Gurumaharaj.

    Please forgive me for any offences but I have this question…..

    If I reach goloka vrindavan .

    Is it possible to remember this statement in goloka vrindavan.

    The statement is …..

    “I want to know the technology used in making both the types of worlds.”

    can i get the answer of this question please.

    I have come to know that is krishna can give everthing and anything.
    Then why he can’t give this technology to me ?

    Please help me with this understanding so that I can start my devotional service.

    I asked many devotees but there answers don’t satisfy me.

    Hare krishna

    Your servant

    • Hare Krishna Chandra

      Your question is not very clear, that may be why you can not get a very clear answer from the devotees…

      As far as the technology used to make the material world that is fully described in Srimad-Bhagavatam, you can read it there. And there is no technology in the spiritual world.

      Really I do not understand your question so if you can state it more clearly maybe I can give you a better answer.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  2. sashikanth says:

    Hare krishna, please accept my most humble obiesances. i had gone through an article recently on krishna conne ct website regarding siva gita. I am aware of the position of lord vishnu and lord shiva but the article has surely got a bewilderment factor which can be of some harm to the faith of the neophytes. Now I request you to clear these bewilderments by giving a strong and long reply regarding the position of lord shiva with respect to vishnu. please kindly quote some references from the puranas as that person who posted the article is refering to padma purana. please send the reply to my mail id.

    yours humble servant

    • Hare Krishna Prabhu

      I am not sure exactly what article you are referring to. I think I have not read it.

      But the position of Lord Shiva and Lord Visnu is that Lord Shiva is certainly lower than Lord Visnu. Lord Shiva is born from the anger of Lord Brahma. But actually Lord Shiva is greater than Lord Brahama. Lord Brahama is generally a very qualified living entity. So any person could ultimately become Lord Brahma if he achieved the very high qualifications necessary to be a Lord Brahma. But Lord Shiva is not like this. He is not an ordinary jiva-tattva, he is shiva-tattva. He is also not visnu-tattva. So Lord Shiva’s position is between Lord Visnu and the ordinary living entities. He is less than Lord Vishnu and greater than the jiva-tattvas.

      The analogy given to explain the position of Lord Shiva in relation to Lord Vishnu is that of yogurt and milk. Yogurt is nothing but milk which has been transformed by some sour substance. But the yogurt has very different properties and qualities to the milk. Drinking milk and eating yogurt have a different effect on the body and once the milk has been transformed into yogurt the milk is gone and you can not transform the yogurt back into milk.

      So Lord Vishnu is like the milk and Lord Shiva is like the yogurt. Lord Shiva is actually Lord Vishnu transformed by contact with the material energy. But once Lord Visnu is transformed in this way in contact with the material energy and becomes Shiva, like the milk transformed into yoghurt, his qualities as Shiva are completely different to the qualities of Vishnu. So you can not get the same result by worshiping Lord Shiva as you can get from worshiping Lord Visnu. Lord Shiva’s position is different, always subordinate to Lord Vishnu…

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy

      Madhudvisa dasa

  3. Indradyumna das says:

    radhe! dandavats prabhu. all glories to srila prahbupada! Thanks for your posts. i have a question for you. where does srila prabhupada speaks about how must a sannyasi dress himself, because as you know nowadays hridayananda ¿goswami? seats in the vyasasan here in mexico with a baseball hat an use ‘jeans’ mostly all the time. do you have the references about this breach? hari bol!

    Indradyumna das

    • Hare Krishna Prabhu

      Why does anyone listen to him? You have to question why the fools sit and listen to him? This is the world of the cheaters and the cheated. The people want to be cheated and are happy to sit down and hear such a rascal so what can we do? You can’t stop fools from being fools…

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  4. alok says:

    I humbly fully submit myself in my guru’s lotus & guide me gurudev.

  5. mamta waldia says:

    what is the difference between Mukti& Moksha?

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About the Author

Founded the Hare Krishna Movement in 1966 in New York. In only 11 years he spread the movement all over the world. He wrote more than 80 books including Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Sri Isopanisad. Prabhupada's books constitute a complete library of Vedic philosophy, religion, literature and culture.

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