Mail Archive

What Happened to the Hare Krishna's?

• Subject: What Happened to the Hare Krishna's?
• From: Badrinarayan das
• Date: Thu Dec 21 10:17:12 1995
• Message-Id: id663

Dear Badrinarayan Prabhu

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I hope Srila Prabhupada's Christmas book distribution marathon has been a great
success there. That is, of course, the main thing. To distribute unlimited numbers
of Srila Prabhupada's books to the fallen conditioned souls. [And to read them
ourselves.]

The world we are living in is very rapidly changing. In a few years things will be
very different indeed. Right now we don't have very much difficulty in
distributing books and preaching, but that may well change. In any case the only
solution is Krishna consciousness. We should be working together to spread Krishna
consciousness.

As far as the ritvik issue, Srila Prabhupada did establish a ritvik initiation
system, and everyone knows it. That is how his disciples were initiated for years
before he disappeared from our mundane view. He didn't establish any other system.
He certainly didn't appoint any acaryas... anyhow there is no point discussing it,
it has been thrashed about in ISKCON for so long now with no resolution.

As far as shelter as my username it is not very easy to change now because of my
WWW pages. But I am working on it. Early next year it should change. I have
removed all the references in the pages. As far as the "trade mark", Krishna's
Chakra, the one I used is completely different than the band's and I started using
it in early 1989, before the band existed. I published a booklet called "Changing
the Face of the Earth" which had the Chakra on the front cover. I had the art-work
done for it myself. I mailed it to the temples and soon after that the chakra
appeared in a collection of files on a disk called "Krishna art" that floated
around in ISKCON, and now that Chakra appears on so many things including Srila
Prabhupada's CD's, etc... Of course it is wonderful, I am not complaining, there
is nothing unique about it, it is the same Chakra you see everywhere in India. It
is nice because it is Krishna's weapon, therefore it is non-different to Krishna,
yet people don't recognize it. That is why I used it in "Changing the Face of the
Earth", because I wanted to move from the environmental issue to the Krishna issue
gradually...

You say that Srila Prabhupada is not dead, yet you say he can't initiate any
more... How can that be so? If he is not dead, he is living. If he is living he
can initiate...

I have read the ISKCON Journal and Jayadvata Maharaja's reiniation paper if that
is the one you are talking about. There is no point in discussing them here. But
ISKCON has never answered the question "What Happened to the Hare Krishna's?" Did
you read the booklet? It is not about the guru issue at all. It is that ISKCON has
deviated from Srila Prabhupada's instructions in so many ways. I received a
newsletter from the Melbourne temple a few days and they say:

"We are pleased to announce that we are performing samskaras, or purificatory
ceremonies for the congregational members of the Melbourne Temple.

The Vedic literatures describe that there are many opportunities during one's life
-- from before birth to after death -- when one may perform a ceremony for
purification to evoke auspiciousness and ensure advancement in spiritual life.

...performance of samskara guarantees eventual perfection in life

Many of the samskaras offered are more beneficial if performed at an
astrologically auspicious time. The head pujari at the temple will be able to
advise you of a qualified astrologer.

The ceremonies offered are:
      Jata-karma: Birth
      Niskramana: When a child leaves the house for the first time
      Pausti-karma: Ceremony to protect your child's health
      Anna-prasana: Feeding a child grains for the first time
      Cuda-karnam: Hair cutting ceremony
      Vidyarambha: Entering school
      Samavartana: Graduation
      Vivaha: Marriage ceremony
      Grharambha: Laying a foundation stone
      Grha-pravesa: House-warming
      Sraddha-patra (Pinda): Oblations to departed forfathers
      Havan Homa: Fire ceremony for auspiciousness"

So where has all this come from? What do you think Srila Prabhupada would say?

As far as Srila Prabhupada's hopes for his disciples to continue his movement by
initiating disciples on their own behalf, he certainly wanted that, there is no
question about it -- it is very clear Srila Prabhupada wanted all his disciples to
become QUALIFIED gurus... But it is not a cheep thing. He could not see anyone
qualified when he left his body, so how could he have appointed them as guru's? If
they were qualified they wouldn't have fallen down from spiritual life. So he
wanted the ritvik system to continue, but he knew it wouldn't... So what to do?

Anyhow, whatever your view, the real issue is following Srila Prabhupada's
instructions, chanting 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, following the
four regulative principles, rising before 4:00am every morning to attend Mangal-
aroti, going out on book distribution and Hari-Nam Sankirtana, that is our life,
and that is what will save the world and ourselves as well.

Anyhow, I hope you consider what I have written, I wish you a very Krishna
conscious Christmas and New Year. Say hello to the men from shelter there from me.
I do sometimes get email from people thinking I am connected with the band but I
have never been able to find an email address for shelter so I can't pass it on.
If they have an email address (and a WWW page) you can tell me and I will forward
the mail.

Vraja Kishor sent me the texts from his hard-core conference at one stage and
there was a big discussion going on in there about the validity of the hard-core
preaching, and I have been thinking about it since then. It is a very difficult
thing... But that's another topic completely.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

>Dear Madhuvisa dasa
>
>Please accept my humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupad.
>
>I apologize for the brevity of this letter, but we are in the middle
>of the Christmas marathon and time is tight commodity at the moment.
>
>I was saddened to read your message...you seem like a very intelligent
>and sincere person...I regret that you have had such unfortunate ex-
>periences.
>
>You say that "everyone accepts that Srila Prabhupad established a
>rtvic initiation system." I don't accept that...and the vast majority
>of devotees who were personally trained by Srila Prabhupad do not
>accept it. So it makes me question your clarity of thought. You cer-
>tainly have the right to your own opinion, and you can present your
>logic for that...but such a blatant exaggeration makes one pause to
>question.
>
>Have you read the "ISKCON Journal"...ISKCON's response to this rtvic
>question? Have you read the GBC paper "Guru Ashraya"? If not, it is
>only reasonable that you should at least consider ISKCON's side of
>the story...I have read all the rtvic papers.
>
>We have never met so I also wonder how it is that you can be hectoring
>me about Srila Prabhupad not being "dead". I have been his initiated
>disciple since 1970....how do I get up every morning and go on if I
>think he is "dead" or not giving his mercy to those who take shelter of
>him. For you to assume otherwise is a bit pompous.
>
>Also, as we have some Shelter band members from here, how is it that
>you are still using their name....it is in your e-mail address as well.
>They are upset that their good name is being mixed in with your campaign.
>It seems unethical (what to speak of a trademark violation).
>
>Besides all this, I am don't want to come across as a heavy hand reach-
>ing out from the USA. If you have read ISKCON's papers and still feel
>the way you do, that is you option....but I guarantee you I never once
>heard Srila Prabhupad intimate anything other than that his disciples
>would carry on his movement, by initiating those who came forward to
>serve in ISKCON....and he expected it to begin as soon as he left the
>planet (but certainly not our lifes). As Srila Prabhupad says clearly
>on tape..."they will be disciples of my disciples, just see".
>
>Hope this finds you well, Your servant, Badrinarayan dasa
>
>
>

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