Mail Archive

The bound cannot help the bound

• Subject: The bound cannot help the bound
• From: Vaisnava das
• Date: Fri Feb 23 23:00:03 1996
• Message-Id: id753

Dear Prabhu's



Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!



I did write a nice reply to this quoting the "vaco vegam" verse from Srila Rupa 

Gosvamis "Nectar of Instruction" but it was completely destroyed by my mail 

program... you have probably received the remnants of my original attempt. I 

also don't have a copy of the original now so I can't resend it... Sorry... 

This is a brief summary.



"A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the minds demands, the 

actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified 

to make disciples all over the world..."



So I think it is quite clear. But the GBC and Vaisnava are saing one who hasn't 

controlled his senses can be a "guru"... I will accept Srila Prabhupada's and 

Srila Rupa Gosvami's verdict on this matter. I don't want to continue with this 

discussion any more. There is no point. It's just like preaching to the 

born-again Christians. They don't listen. They want to justify all their sinful 

activities and still be "Christians". So now the "born again Hare Krishna's" 

are doing the same thing... It is nonsense of course, but it is a popular idea 

nonetheless...



I also typed out "jiva jago, jiva jago" in my last letter... So you can read it 

from the song book. It is very relevant.



I have better things to do than spending hours explaining things which are 

completely obvious and even a child can see to people who don't want to accept 

the truth... 



So, chant Hare Krishna and be happy.



Your servant 



Madhudvisa dasa



PS: I have just put a mail archive on the world-wide-web at



    /~balarama/archive/mail/



There are over 200 letters there including some on this non-liberated guru 

nonsense. You can read about it there. I am tired of this discussion..







>At 12:14 AM 23/2/96 -0800, Vaisnava das wrote

>>Madhusudana prabhu, your point you emphasize, in the quote from sp is:

>>

>>"He MUST BE HELPED BY A PERSON WHO IS UNBOUND,BECAUSE THE BOUND CANNOT HELP

>>THE BOUND.THE RESCUER MUST BE LIBERATED.Therefore only Lord Krishna or his

>>bone-fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned

>>soul.Without superior help,one cannot be freed from the bondage of material

>>nature."

>>

>>So, your argument against my understanding of sastra is that the guru "MUST"

>>be "LIBERATED" (your emphasis).

>>

>>I disagree, as stated in my reply to Madhudvisa prabhu, and continue to

>>offer evidence below.

>>

>>You know, what I think is faulty with yours and Madhudvisa's and Krsna-kanta

>>prabhus' understanding of Prabhupada...

>

>IT IS PRABHUPADA'S POINT. NOT MINE...

>

>It is a disease, both in ISKCON and in the ritvik camp now also. The idea of 

>non-liberated spiritual masters is attractive to non-liberated people [who have 

>no intention of ever becoming liberated!!] because it means they can be "Gurus" 

>and at the same time be in maya!!

>

>As for the only principle being repeating the knowledge perfectly, that is not 

>the only consideration at all. We have seen big, big preachers in ISKCON 

>repeating Srila Prabhupada's instructions [take Bhagavan for example]. His 

>preaching was more or less perfectly in line with Prabhupada's books. But his 

>motivation was wrong. He was doing it for fame, profit, adoration and 

>distinction.. He was doing it for himself, not Krishna and Srila Prabhupada... 

>SO HIS PREACHING WAS POISONUS - even though it was in line with Srila 

>Prabhupada's teachings

>



<this is the third time now I have typed in the Jiv jago prayers... They keep 

disappearing from my computer... It is quite strange...>



"Lord Garunga is calling, "Wake up, sleeping souls! Wake up sleeping souls! How 

long will you sleep in the lap of the witch called Maya?



"You have forgotten the way of devotional service and are lost in the world of 

birth and death. I have descended just to save you , other than Myself you have 

no friend in this world.



"I have brought the medicine that will wipe out the disease of illusion from 

which you are suffering. Take this maha-mantra:



       Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

            Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare



"Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura says: "I fall at the Lord's feet, having taken 

shelter of the maha-mantra."



Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya!

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