scook@scook.ihhsr.fsu.edu (Stephen Cook) wrote: >In article <3qql2i$cnc@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au> madhudvisa@krishna.org (Madhudvisa dasa ) writes: >>Generally we accept the status-quo without questioning it. If we haven’t >>experienced anything else it never crosses our mind that there is anything >>else. We accept things as they are. If you try and put this mentality >>aside for a minute and consider with as much detachment as possible our >>current social and political system you may be surprised. I have spent >>some time in Indian villages and have seen a different lifestyle >>altogether. > These are Indian villages in Austrailia, I presume? No, they are in India... >>There things are going on in a very simple way without much >>emphasis on economic development. Things go on in much the same way as >>they have been going on since time immemorial. There are no new models >>coming out, no new building materials, no multinational corporations, no >>new ‘fads.’ Life is simple. >>The villagers have land, cows and bulls. They milk the cows, plow the >>fields and transport the produce with the bulls, and they grow food grains >>and vegetables on the land. They make simple but comfortable dwellings >>from readily available ingredients: bamboo, mud, cow-dung, and so on. >>Everything is clean and civilized. They are cooking very nice food with >>the produce of the land and the milk from the cows and their lives are >>full and happy. Although they are busy working the land, cooking, >>cleaning, bring water from the well, washing cloths, etc., still they are >>nowhere near as busy as we are in the Western world. They have time to >>think and time to serve God. > Is this the Christian God? Yes. The same God. There is only one God. People call Him by different names but He knows who they want to talk to.. >>When I saw this I was amazed. My Western >>conditioning didn’t prepare me for this. I couldn’t imagine how people >>could be living a civilized and comfortable life without the modern >>amenities we take for granted. There is no running water, no hot water, >>no electricity, hardly any furniture, no household gadgets, no carpets, >>none of the stuff we fill our houses with, yet I could perceive these >>people were happy and peaceful in this lifestyle. They have a peacefulness >>you just can’t find in Pitt Street Mall, or anywhere in Sydney for that >>matter. >>Their incomes are very small compared to our standards. We get twenty >>rupees for one Australian dollar and in Indian villages if someone is >>making twenty rupees a day it’s considered a huge income. They really >>don’t need so much money because their lifestyle is simple. It’s not that >>they are poor or missing out on anything...they have good food, clothes >>and comfortable houses, what else do they need? > Just a few questions.... > 1)What size population are you talking here? Hundreds, thousands? More than 80% of India's population live in small villages. Not very big generally... I don't have actual figures but the ones I have seen have been less than 1,000 in population. > 2)Where are these villages? Everywhere! One of the amazing things about India is wherever you go you see people. They have [as I said before] some land and cows and they live on the land in simple dwellings made from clay, straw, bamboo... > 3)How much land do they have to raise cattle and farm? They don't need anywhere as much land as we use in the West. There is not so much grass there. The cows eat all the scraps (vegatables, leaves, the remainants of crops...) and some grass. They are not as fatty as our cows but still they give milk and the bulls plow the fields and transport the produce. > > 4)What the hell is a rupee? It sounds like it's out of a video game. It's their currency... Not worth so much in $US terms, last time I was there you got 30 rupee's to a dollar. > >>Seeing this lifestyle prompted me to compare it with ours in Australia. I >>don’t think we are better off than the Indian villagers. This was >>initially quite a shock to me as I had assimilated all the subtle >>brainwashing our society gives us to instill in us the desire to consume >>to the maximum possible extent and thus keep the capitalistic machinery >>running. > That's why you have to have an open mind and think for yourself. Yes. If you go and spend some time in India it will give you something to think about.. >>We earn and spend so much money, but what is the result? What do we have >>that the Indian villagers don’t have? We have a house, it may be >>double-brick and in a posh suburb, but after all it’s a house. We are >>eating, we are sleeping and we are working, the same things are going on. >>Of course we have so many electronic gadgets but what have they brought >>us? The television and video are a direct line to the consumer society, >>and really who wants that? > I do. You know what else us filthy market forces advocates have? > Houses that won't blow away when the next hurricane comes along. That depends on how strong the hurricane is doesn't it... > Hospitals, and emergency medical teams, as well as the best equiptment. But there are no less sick people.. If anything there are more [AIDS, cancer, heart disease, stress-related complaints, pollution-related problems, etc...] > Communication technology to link us together and to other countries. And what are we using it for? To download those giffs from alt.binaries.pornography! These things are not bad... we just have to use them for the right purpose, that's all. We can use the same things to glorify God, that makes your effort in developing them worthwhile. > New York to London in three hours. In India they just build their houses again if they blow away... It's not a big deal. But they don't generally blow away. They are quite solid. Your houses are quite likely to be swallowed up by an earthquake, what can your science do about that? Despite all your advances you are still completely helpless in the face of mother nature's power.. They also have a very good medical system. It is completely scientific and very effective... They get results just as good [if not better] than your hospitals equipped with the "best equipment". Not that the Western medical system is not good, they are very good at some things, but so is the Indian Aurvedic system. (There is a newsgroup about Aurvedic medicine, you can ask the people there about it. You will be surprised how scientific it is. > > The computer has made half the work force >>obsolete, they are now thrown on the heap of social rejects which is >>growing at an alarming rate -- people who simply have no place in society. > How many jobs do you think the computer industry has created in the past >decade? The people who are able and willing to change, have benefited from the >innovation of market forces. Yes. It created the job I used to do [I used to develop commercial software in COBOL on ICL mainframes and VAXes... But who is writing COBOL programs now? That job has since been eliminated by the computer industry... So yes, in one sense, computers create jobs, but they destroy many more jobs than they create and then they go on to destroy the ones they created a few years ago as well... >>They don’t have the intelligence to become great computer programmers or >>high-pressure executives, so there is no place for them. > Come on, even Socrates proved the slave boy had innate knowledge. Everyone has knowledge but we are individuals, we have different tendencies. Some people like to do manual labor, some people like to work on the land, some people like to be in the military, some people want to manage, some people like to study... So a society should give people a chance to work at the things they are suited to, then they will be happy... But we are heading for a society where the computers do everything and we have nothing to do... No everyone wants to be a "hospitality" worker you know.. > The reason that all the products and services are bought and sold is >because somebody wants to buy them. Consumers are not forced to buy anything >they do not want. That's why I have a lot of respect for the Amish. Nonsense. We don't want what we don't know about. Nor do we miss it. The capitalistic way is to create new things and convince people that they "want" them, they "need" them... But we don't need these things at all.. >>If this capitalistic society is to go "ahead" then people have to be >>encouraged to consume more. < snip > > we are simply going from one sense gratification >>program to the next, and we are never satisfied with any of them. The >>thing is we never have any time to think. Actually thinking is not >>encouraged by our society, > Are you kidding me, what do you guess IBM's motto is? > There is more research and innovation going on in industrialized nations > now, than there ever has been in the history of the world. But research into what? How to make more products that will sell and make more money... that's all. It may be dressed up to look like some great human welfare work but the bottom line is profit... And where is the innovation? There was a time science was giving us "innovative" things but what have they given us in the last ten years? Computers have got smaller and faster and the software is better, but that seems to have hit a brick wall now as well.. And are people happier now as a result of this "advancement" surely that is the real yardstick... > if we have any spare time there are so many >>mindless diversions to consume our energy. We can watch the television, >>play some sport, go to the beach, take some drugs, find a girl and try to >>arrange some sex life, go to a party, go to a disco, go to a pub, go to a >>restaurant, go to the movies, read the newspaper, go shopping... there is >>no end to the list of diversions available to us... perhaps that’s why we >>consider ours an advanced society? > That's one of the reasons. Thank you. Hare Krishna. Thank you. Hare Krishna! Madhudvisa dasa (madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
Sudarsana
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