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Re: Science and Morality

 
adodd@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Aaron Dodd) wrote:
 
>Madhudvisa dasa        (madhudvisa@krishna.org) wrote:
>: Material scientists, encouraged by the magical changes their inventions
>: have brought about, cannot see the real potency of God behind matter.
>: Therefore science is gradually leading people to a godless civilization at
>: the cost of the goal of human life.
 
>Given that there is absolutely *NO* evidence for the existance of a god,
 
There is plenty of evidence for God... You don't want to see it that's all.
Actually there is absolutely *NO* evidence for your godless world-view being
valid. You are desperately trying to show that the whole universe came from
nowhere, there is no cause, no intelligence behind it and that we are just the
result of some extraordinary fluke of "luck...." Your arguments have no logical
basis but you have blind faith in them. Even though now the big-bang theory has
been proved to be inconsistent with the observed universe because you have no
alternative [except to accept God created the universe] you still believe it....
 
Everywhere you look you can see the beauty and intelligence of God. That there is
a "Supreme Father" is a natural and scientific conclusion. You can test it. Just
study where all of your friends have come from. Do a survey. See how many of them
came from a "big-bang" and see how many of them have parents.... I guarantee most
of them have parents! If your big-bank happened we'd expect to see similar things
happening on a smaller scale. If the universe was created by a big-bang then small

universes [people] should also be created in the same way. After all we are all
self-contained universes within one big universe. I have a body and the universe
is a body... So because we [the small universes] don't come from big [or even
small] bangs it is highly unlikely that the universe came from a big-bang.
 
Mandelbrot and others have done much work on developing the fractal theory and it
goes a long way to more realistically modeling many things in nature than anything
science had previously and central to his ideas is set-similarity. The idea that
the same "patterns" repeat on all scales. So it would be reasonable to assume in a
fractal system [and many scientists now consider the universe is fractal] that the
process of creation would be a scale-indpenedant one. IE: the creation of the
universe would be similar [but on a big scale] to the creation of a person [a
small universe.] So we see a child is born because the father places the living
entity, the person, into the womb of the mother where he develops a material body
from the materials provided by the mother. Similarly the Vedas describe the
universe is created by the glance of the Supreme Father [God, Krishna] over the
inert matter ["mother" nature]. So He impregnates mother nature with all the
living entities and they develop within the "womb" of mother nature.
 
This is a completely reasonable and scientific theory [it's a fact actually -- but
you have to at least accept it as a bona fide theory -- it's far more reasonable
then the big bang...]
 
>it certainly cannot be the result of the work of 'material scientists'
>that is leading towards a godless civilisation
 
It IS the result of the material scientists preaching their godless creation dogma
that is making the world godless! You are doing it yourself! "Givin that there is
absolutely *NO* evidence of God..." It's fanatical nonsense. There is absolutely
*NO* evidence to back up your godless ideas...
 
Science has provided the dogma for the atheists and science is systematically
working to paint God out of the picture. So what do we have left. There is no God,
there is no heaven, no hell, no right, no wrong... If it feels good do it... this
means a hellish world for everyone and it encourages almost everyone to act
sinfully because "there is no future" just "live for the moment...." So everyone's
going to hell...
 
 
>: Having missed the goal of life, materialists strive for self-sufficiency,
>: not knowing that material nature is already self-sufficient by the grace
>: of God. So in the name of "civilization" they create an imbalance in the
>: natural self-sufficiency of material nature.
 
>An imbalance of what sort? All we know is that nature is the way it is
>and that no 'god' is necessary to keep it that way.
 
You "economic development" [as you know quite well] is destroying the natural
balance. You are ripping down the forests, ripping the minerals out of the earth,
draining the oil, pumping billions of tons of poison into the air, the rivers and
the sea, you are encouraging people to "consume" so many unnecessary things. You
are destroying the earth and everything on the earth in the name of "economic
development","progress"  and science... But where is your "progress" leading us...
 
>: To explain how material nature acts by God's power one can consider the
>: example of an iron rod in a fire. Although the rod is not fire, it becomes
>: red-hot and acts like fire itself. Similarly all actions and reactions of
>: material nature are not actually the work of material nature, but are
>: actions and reactions of the Supreme Lord manifested through matter.
 
>: The power of electricity is transmitted through a medium of copper, but
>: this does not mean the copper is electricity. The power is generated at
>: the powerhouse under the control of an expert living being. Similarly,
>: behind all the jugglery of the natural laws is a great living being, who
>: is a person like the mechanical engineer in the powerhouse. It is by His
>: intelligence that the entire cosmic creation moves in a systematic way.
 
>When you say 'natural laws', what do you mean? Things like Newtons laws?
>I've got news for you, these aren't laws, these are mathematical models
>of nature.

 
Yes, that's all they are, mathematical models that sometimes approximate the
observed results of nature... But do they have anything to do with reality? Do
they describe what is really happening?
 
>You also claim that this expert living being controls the
>world in a systematic way. Why should an intelligent being behave in a
>sytematic way, surely nature would behave in a more arbitarary way if it
>were controlled by an intelligent being.
 
It is controlled by many intelligent beings. Krishna, God, is not directly
controlling it. He has much better things to do. He has his agents, the demigods,
and there are at least 33,000,000 of them in the universe and they all have some
responsibility in the scheme of things... So you see it is a very big operation
and many personalities are involved... But there are natural laws established by
God so this provides the basic backdrop... The planets have to follow their
allotted orbits, the sun has to rise and set on time... But everything is
controled by people... Nothing happens, all by itself, or from nowhere [like the
supposed "big bang"]
 
So you can criticize all you like but look at your own dogma first. You are not in
a very strong position... Meanwhile we will go on serving God and chanting Hare
Krishna.
 
 
 
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
 
Madhudvisa dasa       
(madhudvisa@krishna.org)     /sudarsana
 
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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