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Science, the Universe and Faith

rodvik@ix.netcom.com (Rod Humble) wrote:
 
 
>I think you have mistaken the whole principle of science for a system
>of beliefs. Science 'believes' nothing not even its own theories, it
>constantly challenges itself, indeed any scientist who 'beleives' is no
>longer a scientist. He can have theories but they must be scrutinized
>and held up for riducle before they can be accepted as the temporary
>accepted truth.
 
Science is [like it or not] a set of beliefs. I agree it is a constantly
changing one, but at any point scientists are very energetically
"preaching" their beliefs. Their beliefs are certainly scrutinized by
other scientists but there comes a time when the "beliefs" start to become
"good science" and are generally accepted among scientists. When someone
challenges this "good science" there is a big negative reaction.
Scientists, like everyone else, have their world-view, their belief
system, and when someone "rocks the boat" they don't like it. But the
important point as you have mentioned is science is only a "temporary
accepted truth". If you read a science text-book from fifty years ago it
will seem ridiculous... Similarly todays text-books will be also useless a
few years down the track...
 
You can never know if the "scientific" knowledge is correct or not... It

is a very uncertain thing.
 
>Is Science moral? No. To apply a moral basis for science is to inject a
>bias into the research, science is only interested in the search for
>truth not a truth that fits into the accepted social order of a barely
>evolved species of primates on a small blue world in the middle of
>nowhere.
 
The problem is science can never find the truth... It's not a system for
finding the truth. It has nothing to do with the truth or even the "real
world" for that matter. It's a set of models that attempt to predict and
explain the things we see around us, that's all... The models may have
nothing to do with what is actually happening... If they predict and
describe the operation of the system they are good models...
 
>It is religions job to give us morals to live by, religions get into
>trouble when they stray into the  path of trying to explain the
>universe - that is not a religions job anymore. Science is much better
>at describing the universe than religion. However religion is able to
>help humans live IN the universe that science describes.
 
But science is in big trouble describing the universe! They can't explain
it at all! "In the begining there was nothing... and from that nothing
came a big bang, caused by no one and energy coming from nowhere... It
created all the mass of the universe... it contracted and formed all the
planets and set them into motion, all orbiting around the sun [all by an
impossibly unlikely coincidence!] And that's not all mind you... Some
chemicals mixed themselves up somewhere [once again all by themselves,
another impossible  and unlikely coincidence...] And, lo and behold, [for
the first and perhaps only time :-)] Life was created from matter!!!"
 
So there you have it... The universe according to science... We accept it
of course because they have brainwashed us... But it is nonsense. A
thoughtful man cannot accept such hopeful ramblings of men desperate to
paint God out of the picture at any cost... They can't prove any of it.
They can't demonstrate any of it in their labs... The whole thing is
totally unscientific even by their own standards. And there are very few
scientists who are prepared to defend the big bang now... I have tested
it. When I confront them they say, "Well it has lots of problems [th BB
theory] but of all the theories it's the best one we have..."
 
Of course it's not the best one they have. But they don't want to consider
the only other one... That there is some intelligence behind the creation
of the universe. It is a completely reasonable assumption to make. If we
look at a very nice new building in the city and I tell you it was created
by a "big bang" last night, would you believe me? No. [unless you are
crazy of course]. Because the building is there we know there were
engineers, buliders, plumbers, electricions, etc... We may not see them,
but we know they were there. The "big bang" explanation is completely
unreasonable...
 
>Science has found no evidence for God and so we can see no reason to
>beleive the ancient myths we used to believe.
 
Only because they're not looking for it! If I put on a blindfold and walk
around and try to prove there is no light... it I convince my friends to wear
blindfolds as well... then we have a society of blindfolded people
happily believing there is no light... Ignorance is bliss!
 
>However while these myths
>were untrue
 
HOW DO YOU KNOW???
 
>they did provide a useful moral compass for a society to
>live by. It is ironic to me that Eastern religions (in particular
>Buddism)
 
Budhism has not survived in its original form. It is difficult to find
Buddhist monks who are following the original teachings and strict

principals of Buddhism... But it is quite compatible with the "scientific"
view in many ways so it is popular in the west. Buddhists don't believe in
God, they are atheists [even though they scream when I say this... when I
say, "Do you believe in God then?" they are silent...] They believe in
reincarnation and karma, but they don't believe in an eternal soul.
Nirvana is to cease to exist. That is their solution to the problems...
 
>have survived this stripping away of the mythic lies of the
>past far better than the Western Religions. It seems to me that is
>because all the Western relgions are exclusive in nature whereas most
>eastern religions are inclusive.
 
Yes. It is funny. There are thousands of Christian groups but they almost
all say they are the only ones going to heaven... all the other
[Christians] are going to hell... I find it hard to understand how they
come up with this idea but I have spoken to thousands and thousands of
them on the streets selling books about Krishna and they really do believe
this... But God is in everyones heart... He knows if we want to talk to
Him, He doesn't mind what name we use...
 
>Your points about missing the goal of life are profoundly true in my
>view. But this is to mistake science with materialism. Many eastern
>religions celebrate the awe of the universe in an incredibly beautiful
>way. It seems to me that this view of the world is fully compatible
>with science which shows us more of the universe everyday. What could
>be more delightful than that?
 
Yes. The universe is also a form of God and real science is also a form of
God realization. But many are not really interested in this. They have
turned "science" into a dogma that supports the modern atheistic
world-view. This is not science and it is not what real scientists are
doing, but it is how the atheists are using science to destroy religious
people in our society...
 
 
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
 
Madhudvisa dasa       
(madhudvisa@krishna.org)     /sudarsana
 
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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