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pchienjr@uclink.berkeley.edu (Peter C Chien Jr) wrote:
>What a crock of shit. I think when you associate your religious beliefs
>with something as secularly practiced as veganism, you turn off a lot of
>people. Including me.
We are definately not vegans! It has been said so many times. And karma is
not a religious belief. It is the same law science is aware of that
states for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. They know
it works when you bounce a ball off the ground, but they don't know the
reaction is also there for all activities. Karma is a fact of life.
> I don't believe in Krishna.
That doesn't matter. I may not believe in the Pacific Ocean but does that
mean the Pacific Ocean doesn't exist?
> Therefore I don't
>believe in your theories. Besides, has it ever occurred to you that
>plants are life forms as well? If you eat them, then you are a
>hypocrite.
Yes. It is sinful to kill plants as well. There are two points here. The
first and most important one is devotees are not cooking for themselves,
we cook for Krishna, so we prepare the foods He likes to eat from grains,
milk products, vegetables and fruits, then we offer them to Him. The
result is prasadam, or Krishna's mercy. So there is no karma involved at
all. Service to Krishna is completely transcendental. So those people who
are vegetarians, but who prepare food for themselves are also not free
from all sinful reactions. Only when the food is prepared with love and
offered to Krishna is it transcendental.
The other point is most vegetarian foods can be collected without killing
the plant. In the case of fruit and many vegetables you just pick the
fruit. It doesn't kill the plant. In other cases (such as grains) the
plant dies after producing the grain and therefore harvesting the grain is
not killing the plant.
>There is this plant called the acacian bush, that upon being
>eaten by an herbivore, secretes ascissic acid, which in turn acts a
>signal to other plants nearby to secrete tannins. Tannins are
>unpalatable compounds to animals. Seems like self-defense to me,
>indicating the possibility of sentience. What do you say to that? The
>only *true* lifeanism in diet is eating fruits and milk and decomposing
>carcasses (like vultures do it).
Yes. Plants are conscious too. There is no difference between the
spirit-soul in a plant and you. You are in human consciousness so you have
a human body, the plant is in plant consciousness so it has a plant
body... You can also take a plant's body and the soul in the plant's body
will gradually evolve through the species of life until it comes to a
human body.
>Madhudvisa dasa (madhudvisa@krishna.org) wrote:
>: only eat meat, they have no choice in the matter. But we can eat meat if
>: we want to, it is an optional thing. The vegetarian diet is much more
>: healthy, that has been established and is admitted by most people.
>: We can consider whether it is right to unnecessairly kill others and eat
>: their flesh. I'm sure I have the digestive enzymes which would make it
>: possible for me to eat and digest your body. But is it a good thing if I
>: kill you just to eat your flesh when there are so many alternatives? These
>: things arc considered by thoughtful people, others, who are no better than
>: animals will go on slaughtering innocent creatures without considering it.
>: The law of karma states that if you act violently towards others that
>: violence will come back on you. We are seeing it in the world at the
>: moment, so much suffering, so many wars, so many problems. But we don't
>: connect it. Many of the problems are directly caused by the unnecessary
>: slaughter of millions of innocent animals.
>: For us, as Hare Krishna's, being vegetarian is not the real question. We
>: are "Krishnatarians". We cook food for Krishna, offer it to Him, and eat
>: the prasadam He leaves. So we want to please Krishna. If you invite
>: someone over to your house and want to please them you will find out what
>: sort of food they like to eat and offer it to them. So Krishna describes
>: what He likes to eat in the Bhagavad-gita, He likes foods in the mode of
>: goodness made from grains, milk products, vegetables and fruits. So we
>: cook what Krishna likes and Krishna doesn't eat meat. So we are
>: vegetarians...
>: "As far as the mode of ignorance is concerned, the performer is
>: without knowledge, and therefore all his activities result in present
>: misery, and afterwards he will go on toward animal life. Animal life is
>: always miserable, although, under the spell of the illusory energy, maya,
>: the animals do not understand this. Slaughtering poor animals is also due
>: to the mode of ignorance. The animal killers do not know that in the
>: future the animal will have a body suitable to kill them. That is the law
>: of nature. In human society, if one kills a man he has to be hanged. That
>: is the law of the state. Because of ignorance, people do not perceive that
>: there is a complete state controlled by the Supreme Lord. Every living
>: creature is a son of the Supreme Lord, and He does not tolerate even an
>: ant's being killed. One has to pay for it. So indulgence in animal killing
>: for the taste of the tongue is the grossest kind of ignorance. A human
>: being has no need to kill animals, because God has supplied so many nice
>: things. If one indulges in meat-eating anyway, it is to be understood that
>: he is acting in ignorance and is making his future very dark. Of all kinds
>: of animal killing, the killing of cows is most vicious because the cow
>: gives us all kinds of pleasure by supplying milk. Cow slaughter is an act
>: of the grossest type of ignorance. In the Vedic literature (Rg Veda
>: 9.4.64) the words gobhih prinita-matsaram indicate that one who, being
>: fully satisfied by milk, is desirous of killing the cow is in the grossest
>: ignorance." (From Srila Prabhupada's purport to Bhagavad-gita 14.6)
>: Chant Hare Krishna and be Happy!
>: Thank you. Hare Krishna!
>: Madhudvisa dasa
>: (madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
>:
>: All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
>--
> --Caephus
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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