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Dear Glen,
I have written you a reply but I did not directly reply to your letter
so, since you have gone to the trouble of writing it, I should reply to
it.
Today I saw some photo's of spiral nebula (I think) on the WWW. It
struck me that this spiral motion is similar to what happens to the
water when I pull out the plug in the bath. Could not the same force be
at work? If there is a force out there strong enough to cause whatever
it is out there to form that spiral pattern (it must be fairly general
because I saw about 10 photo's which all looked the same... presumably
they are scattered around in various places in the universe) then surely
the same force must also be here on earth. Why could it not be this
universal spiraling force which is causing my bath water to behave in
the same way and your pendulum to rotate?
The next logical question is are these spiraling things seen in both the
Northern and Southern hemispheres? If so do they rotate in opposite
directions. If they do would it not be logical to assume there must be
somewhere where the clockwise and anticlockwise forces balance out (ie:
the equator).
> In order you explain the vedic system you have to introduce hitherto unknown
> "forces".
> These "forces" affect a plane flying in the sky, but dont affect a car 1000
> feet below it. > > > >
If the plane is flying in the sky it's movement is clearly different and
[at least physically] independent to the earth. It should be affected by
this "spiraling force" because it's just another object floating in
space. In the stationary earth scenario the plane would be moved in an
east-west direction with the stars and planets while the earth remained
stationary below.
The car is clearly different. It has it's wheels firmly on the
stationary earth. The force must, of course, affect the car in some way,
but it is conceivably insignificant in comparison to the gravitational
force holding the car to the ground.
> I dont think you meant to type "solar winds".
> Real solar winds are fairly well understood by science and dont act in the
> mystical ways you describe, being merely particles emitted from the sun.
> (which incidentally dont make it to the surface of the earth, and even if
> they did, they still only radiate in a direction outward from the sun.)
I'm just typing what it says in the Srimad Bhagavatam and it says "Solar
Winds", maybe it is a different concept from yours, but it also says
they are driven by the sun. And particles from the sun do reach the
earth. Unless photons of light were traveling from the sun to the earth
we couldn't see it! That's the whole idea of looking into the sky and
seeing into the past. We are seeing the photons of light emitted from
the sun and other heavenly bodies some time in the past.
They may only radiate in an outward direction from the sun but remember
in the Vedic model the sun is moving. It moves 360 degrees above the
equator every 24 hours with all the other planets and stars and it also
has its own independent movement which takes it through the 12
constellations in 12 months (ie: 360 degrees through all the
constellations) That's what your sun-sign means in astrology. I was born
on November 17th and it so happens that the sun is in the constellation
of Scorpio at that time of the year.
> the pendulum is, more or less, a body in space like the sun or any other
> heavenly body so the same forces act on it.) >
>> "more or less" is a bit vague.
>> Tell me why a very measurable force is acting on the pendulum, while at the
>> same time _no_ force is acting on a stationary pendulum bob sitting on a
>> pair of scales 10 feet away.
I'm sorry about my unscientific language. You can't compare a swinging
pendulum with a bob on your scales. By suspending the bob and swinging
it you eliminate lots of the gravitational force which is causing the
other one to sit on the scales. Undoubtedly it is also effected by the
same force but gravity is overcoming it.
> > Perhaps you might clear up this point: Is the air part of the fixed earth
> > or the rotating universe?
> > If it is part of the rotating universe, then please clear up what is moved
> > around by the "forces" you introduce, and what is not.
> > You say the earth itself isn't influenced, but the air and a pendulum bob on
> > a string is... so why isnt a weight on a desk influenced as well?
You have to get the idea that the earth is fixed. Fixed means fixed!
It's joined up to something which very solidly anchors it in one place.
If you have a ship and you throw out the anchor and tie it to the wharf
with lots of ropes it is fixed. It's not going to float out to sea even
if the current is pulling it. So undoubtedly these forces act on
everything, but if something is solidly "fixed" in one place it remains
"fixed". The air is clearly not fixed in the same way so it moves. But
there are other things involved in the movement of the air. You have
mentioned the updraft at the equator, etc, etc, etc. The pendulum I
already talked about. The weight on the desk IS influenced but the
influence is not strong enough to overcome gravity.
> In the Vedic model as soon as the aircraft enters the sky it becomes
> another body which rotates with the universe. This gives it relative motion
> But the pendulum is still attached to the ground by string.
> How does the universe "decide" whether or not to influence the object?
It doesn't "decide", it influences everything, but if something is being
held down by gravity or is fixed in some way that force is stronger so
how can it move? I'm sure you can see an oscillating pendulum on a
string is more prone to be affected by some external force than a bob on
the desk. Even a strong gust of wind will throw the pendulum of course
while not [at least not visibly] effecting the one on the desk.
> As you say, trains moving at constant speed dont have any effect on the
> ball, but this isn't how a rotating earth works.
> Angular acceleration,found in all rotating objects from centrifuges to
> planets, is acceleration, real and measurable. The object may indeed be
> turning at a constant "revs per minute" but something sitting on the edge is
> indeed undergoing acceleration. > A vector, not a scalar.
>
> To make you _real_ happy I'll modify that train analogy into a slightly more
> correct one - whereby the two trains are on a curve in the track.
>
> The one that moves on the curve will throw the tennis ball under a
seat.. > not down the aisle.
>
That one on the curved track is the earth rotating? Right? I have a
tennis ball here [wait a second]. I've just put it down on the rotating
earth which has "real measurable angular acceleration" (just like the
train going around the bend) But it's just sitting there! It's not
rolling under my chair! Something wrong here I think.
PS: I'm still interested in satellites. Your last answer was more or
less what everybody I've ever asked said. But I really want to know what
orbits are possible. You said you don't know of any going west-east, but
is it possible to do such a thing? I suspect not. Also I suspect you
can't put them up going North-South. But nobody seems to know... And
what about over Antartica? Somebody told me they could and somebody else
told me they couldn't. I've also looked for information in books but
never really found anything substantial. What about gyro-synchronizes
orbits? How does it work? Do they actually just sit there or do they
move a bit? And where are they exactly?
Thanks for the letter, it gave me a chance to think about things I
probably would have missed otherwise. Looking forward to hearing from
you again.
Thank you. Hare Krishna.
--
Madhudvisa dasa |
| S H E L T E R I N T E R N A T I O N A L
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I am the original fragrance of the earth, I am the heat in fire...
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