>In <3sdli0$r52@gap.cco.caltech.edu> madhudvisa@krishna.org (Madhudvisa >dasa) writes: >> >>Material scientists, encouraged by the magical changes their >inventions >>have brought about, cannot see the real potency of God behind matter. >>Therefore science is gradually leading people to a godless >civilization at >>the cost of the goal of human life. >> >>Having missed the goal of life, materialists strive for >self-sufficiency, >>not knowing that material nature is already self-sufficient by the >grace >>of God. So in the name of "civilization" they create an imbalance in >the >>natural self-sufficiency of material nature. >> >>To explain how material nature acts by God's power one can consider >the >>example of an iron rod in a fire. Although the rod is not fire, it >becomes >>red-hot and acts like fire itself. Similarly all actions and reactions >of >>material nature are not actually the work of material nature, but are >>actions and reactions of the Supreme Lord manifested through matter. >> >>The power of electricity is transmitted through a medium of copper, >but >>this does not mean the copper is electricity. The power is generated >at >>the powerhouse under the control of an expert living being. Similarly, >>behind all the jugglery of the natural laws is a great living being, >who >>is a person like the mechanical engineer in the powerhouse. It is by >His >>intelligence that the entire cosmic creation moves in a systematic >way. >> >>(adapted from Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila 5.51 by Srila >Prabhupada) >> >> >>Thank you. Hare Krishna! >> >>Madhudvisa dasa >>(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana/ctfo te >> >>Quotes from His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada >>(c)Bhaktivedanta Book Trust >> >> >> >I think you have mistaken the whole principle of science for a system >of beliefs. Science 'believes' nothing not even its own theories, it >constantly challenges itself, indeed any scientist who 'beleives' is no >longer a scientist. He can have theories but they must be scrutinized >and held up for riducle before they can be accepted as the temporary >accepted truth. Science is [like it or not] a set of beliefs. I agree it is a constantly changing one, but at any point scientists are very energetically "preaching" their beliefs. Their beliefs are certainly scrutinized by other scientists but there comes a time when the "beliefs" start to become "good science" and are generally accepted among scientists. When someone challenges this "good science" there is a big negative reaction. Scientists, like everyone else, have their world-view, their belief system, and when someone "rocks the boat" they don't like it. But the important point as you have mentioned is science is only a "temporary accepted truth". If you read a science text-book from fifty years ago it will seem ridiculous... Similarly todays text-books will be also useless a few years down the track... You can never know if the "scientific" knowledge is correct or not... It is a very uncertain thing. >Is Science moral? No. To apply a moral basis for science is to inject a >bias into the research, science is only interested in the search for >truth not a truth that fits into the accepted social order of a barely >evolved species of primates on a small blue world in the middle of >nowhere. The problem is science can never find the truth... It's not a system for finding the truth. It has nothing to do with the truth or even the "real world" for that matter. It's a set of models that attempt to predict and explain the things we see around us, that's all... The models may have nothing to do with what is actually happening... If they predict and describe the operation of the system they are good models... >It is religions job to give us morals to live by, religions get into >trouble when they stray into the path of trying to explain the >universe - that is not a religions job anymore. Science is much better >at describing the universe than religion. However religion is able to >help humans live IN the universe that science describes. But science is in big trouble describing the universe! They can't explain it at all! "In the begining there was nothing... and from that nothing came a big bang, caused by no one and energy coming from nowhere... It created all the mass of the universe... it contracted and formed all the planets and set them into motion, all orbiting around the sun [all by an impossibly unlikely coincidence!] And that's not all mind you... Some chemicals mixed themselves up somewhere [once again all by themselves, another impossible and unlikely coincidence...] And, lo and behold, [for the first and perhaps only time :-)] Life was created from matter!!!" So there you have it... The universe according to science... We accept it of course because they have brainwashed us... But it is nonsense. A thoughtful man cannot accept such hopeful ramblings of men desperate to paint God out of the picture at any cost... They can't prove any of it. They can't demonstrate any of it in their labs... The whole thing is totally unscientific even by their own standards. And there are very few scientists who are prepared to defend the big bang now... I have tested it. When I confront them they say, "Well it has lots of problems [th BB theory] but of all the theories it's the best one we have..." Of course it's not the best one they have. But they don't want to consider the only other one... That there is some intelligence behind the creation of the universe. It is a completely reasonable assumption to make. If we look at a very nice new building in the city an I tell you it was created by a "big bang" last night, would you believe me? No. [unless you are crazy of course]. Because the building is there we know there were engineers, buliders, plumbers, electricions, etc... We may not see them, but we know they were there. The "big bang" explanation is completely unreasonable... >Science has found no evidence for God and so we can see no reason to >beleive the ancient myths we used to believe. Only because they're not looking for it! If I put on a blindfold and walk around and try to prove there is no light... it I convince my friends to were blindfolds as well... then we have a society of blindfolded people happily believing there is no light... Ignorance is bliss! >However while these myths >were untrue HOW DO YOU KNOW??? >they did provide a useful moral compass for a society to >live by. It is ironic to me that Eastern religions (in particular >Buddism) Budhism has not survived in its original form. It is difficult to find Buddhist monks who are following the original teachings and strict principals of Buddhism... But it is quite compatible with the "scientific" view in many ways so it is popular in the west. Buddhists don't believe in God, they are atheists [even though they scream when I say this... when I say, "Do you believe in God then?" they are silent...] They believe in reincarnation and karma, but they don't believe in an eternal soul. Nirvana is to cease to exist. That is their solution to the problems... >have survived this stripping away of the mythic lies of the >past far better than the Western Religions. It seems to me that is >because all the Western relgions are exclusive in nature whereas most >eastern religions are inclusive. Yes. It is funny. There are thousands of Christian groups but they almost all say they are the only ones going to heaven... all the other [Christians] are going to hell... I find it hard to understand how they come up with this idea but I have spoken to thousands and thousands of them on the streets selling books about Krishna and they really do believe this... But God is in everyones heart... He knows if we want to talk to Him, He doesn't mind what name we use... >Your points about missing the goal of life are profoundly true in my >view. But this is to mistake science with materialism. Many eastern >religions celebrate the awe of the universe in an incredibly beautiful >way. It seems to me that this view of the world is fully compatible >with science which shows us more of the universe everyday. What could >be more delightful than that? Yes. The universe is also a form of God and real science is also a form of God realization. But many are not really interested in this. They have turned "science" into a dogma that supports the modern atheistic world-view. This is not science and it is not what real scientists are doing, but it is how the atheists are using science to destroy religious people in our society... Thank you. Hare Krishna! Madhudvisa dasa (madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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