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Dear Lars Mulvad
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Hare Krishna! Jaya Radhe!
I have also posted this to the newsgroup alt.religion.viasnava. It is an
interesting bunch of people who all belive in Krishna but have many
different ways of understanding Him...
>That might prove to be a very difficult task [God is required using
>quantam mechanics] because quantum mechanics is almost pure mathematics
>and I doubt that mankind can ever reach a total understanding of the
>behaviour of atoms and molecules (perhaps that's why God is required).
It may be difficult but you should try and do it. Someone needs to propose
some scientific theories that include Krishna as one of the axioms. Why
not? Every scientific theory starts out with some axiomatic truths which
are accepted as absolute for the purpose of the theory. Often these
axiomatic truths are not very sound also. For example the godless idea
rests on the principle that life can be generated from matter. But life
can not be generated from matter. Matter and life are two completely
separate things.
Evolution depends on the very questionable assumption that natural
selection alone can generate all the variety, beauty and wonder we see in
nature. There are so many flaws in this idea. It has been discussed at
great length as you know and there are many faults. However you can not
find any fault in the axiom that there is an intelligent controller behind
the universe. There is direction. Things do not happen "automatically",
"by chance", or "accidently". There is a plan and there is the plan-maker
as well. If you accept this axiomatic truth and develop your scientific
models from that point everything will begin to make sense. It will form a
perfectly logical and consistent world-view. You have said two of your
teachers believe in God but can't say it in scientific circles because the
idea is not "scientific". So we have to make it scientific. The way to do
that is to develop some "scientific" theories which have the existence of
God as one of the axioms. Then the many religious scientists will be able
to talk about God in terms of some scientific theories. I am sure it will
be very popular. It just requires someone to do the work and come up with
the theories!
I have heard that many years ago some farmers came into a big town with a
very strange story. They reported that on their farms there were rocks
falling from the sky! So the scientific men of the day took them as crazy
men. How could rocks fall from the sky? They ridiculed the idea and sent
them back to their farms. But the reports of rocks falling from the sky
continued... So the scientists had to come up with a "scientific theory"
to explain rocks falling from the sky. They came up with the idea of
volcanos errupting on the moon! It seemed a reasonable enough idea so that
was the "scientific theory" and everyone then accepted rocks could fall
from the sky. These rocks are now called meteorites and there is no
problem accepting them now... [story from Sadaputa das]
> I'm
>studying infra-red spectroskopy [vibrations of molecules] and I've learned
>that our mathematical models fits fairly well but they are not exact and
>they are NEVER going to be exact because the mathematical equations can't
>be solved. God has solved these equations, of course, by just thinking
>that they're to be solved. "My will shall be done!" He might think and
>still scientists all over the world cannot see this extravaganza of His
>Lordship.
>
>
>When it comes to photons my knowledge is not big because I'm a
>chemist and not a physicist, I use the mathematical tools quantum
>mechanics has given me rather than understand what they really mean.
>Quantum mechanics is like Krishna ... very hard to understand completely,
>so instead of trying to understand it I accept it just like I accept Sri
>Krishna later on when I become more advanced in quantum mechanics I'm
>beginning to understand more and more just like in Krishna-consciousness.
>
>
>So the world is Krishna, learning about nature is learning about Krishna
>and He has created this world in the most brilliant way, believe me
>quantum mechanics is beautiful and funny even if you don't underestand it
>perfectly.
>
>Consider a scientist who says that you die when the soul leaves the body
>and heart stops beating as an effect of the missing soul, what will happen
>when he states this in public? He'll be considered controversial or even
>non-scientific, he might get fired. It's my opinion that many scientists
>are hiding their sceptisism to their fine theories just because it isn't
>considered scientific to ask such questions (my physics teacher didn't
>believe in big bang and my bio-chemistry teacher didn't believe that life
>came from simple DNA strings).
So I am sure all that is required is a comprehensive set of scientific
theories describing things in terms of God. One can do everything then.
Make predictions, perform experiments, etc. But formulating such theories
is beyond my capacities. It needs to be done by scientific people. I have
made a small outline of a "soul theory" which is not even religious. It
should also be acceptable to the athiests. It might be a good starting
point.
The following "theory" is far from complete and it is not very convincing
as it is but perhaps the readers of alt.religion.viasnava can develop it
into a more viable one?
THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF THE SOUL
---------------------------------
INTRODUCTION
The intention of this paper is to put forward a scientific theory stated
according to the currently accepted "scientific method" which provides a
verifiable and falsifiable theory establishing the existence of an eternal
spiritual particle present within every living entity. The symptom of the
presence of the soul in a body is consciousness. This scientific theory
makes predictions and can be tested experimentally.
DEFINITION OF THE "SOUL THEORY"
The "soul" is defined as a non-material, eternal spiritual entity present
within any living being. The symptom of the presence of the soul within a
body is consciousness. The soul continues to exist after the destruction
of the body and it existed prior to the creation of the body. The material
body develops, changes and produces by-products [offspring] because of the
presence of the soul within. The material body deteriorates in due cause
of time and when it is no longer a suitable residence for the soul it is
forced to leave the body. This we call death.
IS THE "SOUL THEORY" RELIGIOUS?
The "Soul Theory" stands completely on its own. It says nothing about the
existence or nonexistent of God. Although most religious people accept the
concept of something other than matter that continues to exist after death
and caries the person on to another life there are also atheists who
accept such an entity exists. In India there are both theistic and
atheistic philosophies accepting the presence of the soul. It is a
compelling and convincing explanation of many things we experience.
THE "SOUL THEORY" EXPLAINED
There exists, within this material universe, three types of energy: gross
material, subtle material and spiritual. The gross material energy
consists of earth, water, fire, air and ether [defined as the "space"
within the universe]. The subtle material energy consists of mind,
intelligence and false-ego [defined as the identification of the body as
the self]. The spiritual energy consists of the soul [the individual
living entities] and the supersoul
The presence of the soul in any living entity is indicated by
consciousness. Although we cannot actually see the soul, we can see its
symptoms. We cannot "see" electricity but when we see an illuminated
light-globe we can see the symptom of the presence of electricity.
Similarly when we see consciousness we see the symptom of the soul.
Any material body inhabited by a soul will undergo changes. It will be
created, it will grow, it will produce by-products [offspring], it will
dwindle and ultimately it will die.
DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED
The Soul:
A spiritual particle present within any living entity whose presence
causes the entire body to be pervaded by consciousness, the symptom of the
soul. The soul is eternal, it has no birth and it never dies. The soul is
the "person within the body", or "the ghost in the machine". At the time
of "death" the soul leaves the body and is transferred to the womb of it's
next mother's womb according to it's accumulated "karma".
Any material body inhabited by a soul will undergo changes. It will be
created, it will grow, it will produce by-products [offspring], it will
dwindle and ultimately it will die.
Karma:
Karma means literally "actions". It is described by the physical law that
each action has an equal and opposite reaction. This universal law is not
limited to physical actions, it works for any action. If we commit
violence against another the reactions generated and we must experience
violence upon ourselves in the future. This "karma" or the reactions to
our actions is not immediate. The karma is stored in our hearts and it
will mature and fructify in due course. If at the time of death there are
still karmic reactions stored within the heart which we have not yet
experienced then we have to take birth again in the material world in a
body suitable to enjoy and suffer the stored karma.
False-Ego:
The "ego" is the identity of the soul. In reality the soul is a spiritual
person possessing an eternal spiritual body full of knowledge and ever
increasing bliss. However, because of misusing their independence the
souls in the material world misidentify with the material body. They
think, "I am an American man", or "I am an Australian women". But such
identification is false. We are only temporarily in a particular body. It
is for seventy or eight years only, then we have to change bodies again.
Our next body may be completely different. There is no guarantee someone
who now has an "American" body will be again born as an American. There is
not even a guarantee of birth in the human form. One can take birth in any
species of life. So this identification with the material body is "false
ego".
EXISTENCE PROOF
Life or consciousness is the symptom of the soul. There is no other
explanation of consciousness available. No one has been able to show life,
consciousness can be generated from matter. And there are many
inconsistencies which cannot be explained within the present framework,
without considering the existence of the soul. Although there are very
clear indications that valid scientific data could be collected on areas
such as out-of-body experiences and past-life-recall because the current
scientific theories don't accommodate the possibility these things could
exist there has been very little real scientific study in these areas.
There is a large body of data relating to out-of-body experiences.
Currently science cannot relate to or study this body of evidence as the
current scientific view cannot accommodate the possibility of a "person"
being able to leave their body and observe what is happening to their body
from a different perspective. A large body of evidence is certainly there
and it requires scientific study and the "Soul Theory" will enable this.
Unless there are two separate entities, the body and the soul, out-of-body
experiences would be impossible. But it seems they are not. This is
compelling proof of the existence of the soul.
There are many verifiable accounts of "past life experiences". This is
another area currently outside the boundaries of science but it could be
studied in terms of the "Soul Theory". If there was no soul, no entity
that continued from one life to the next, there could be no memory of
"past lives". Another strong proof of the existence of the soul.
EXPERIMENTAL PROOF FOR THE "SOUL THEORY"
The "Soul Theory" makes many predictions that can be experimentally tested
and also one can propose experiments which, if successfully carried out,
could disprove it. So it is a theory suitable fro study using the
currently accepted "scientific method".
- Predicts out of body experiences are possible
- Predicts past life recollection is possible
- Predicts "unembodied" souls are possible
- Predicts life cannot be produced from a combination of chemicals
"Unless there is a soul present within matter it will not go through the
cycle of birth, growth, production of by-products, dwindling and death.
This cycle is a symptom of the presence of the soul. The soul is placed
within matter by other living entities and then develops."
Proof: Analytically study all living entities and confirm that all living
entities are caused, or born from "parents", other living entities.
Falsify: Show life can be created from matter only [a chemical mixture of
earth, water, fire, air and ether.] Then show the resulting combination of
matter can exhibit the symptoms of life [growth, changing, production of
by-products dwindling and vanishing.]
"The soul is placed within matter by another living entity then a material
body is developed around the soul from matter."
Proof: Analytically study living entities to confirm their source is
another living entity.
Falsify: Show living entities can be produced by a combination of
chemicals. The resulting living entities must be able to exhibit the
symptoms of the presence of the soul, ie: consciousness, and undergo the
transformations of growth, change, production of by-products [offspring],
dwindling and death.
FUTURE WORK
The "Soul Theory" opens up a vast field for research and study based on
the scientific method. It opens up the areas of past-life-recall and
out-of-body experiences to rigorous scientific research and it also
enables science to study all manner of previously unexplained phoneme from
a new angle.
REFERENCES
The science of the soul is described in the Bhagavad-gita, the timeless
jewel from the Indian Vedic texts. A full understanding can be gained from
this source.
Extensive data and documentation is available in the areas of
past-life-recall and out-of-body experiences which could form the basis of
much scientific research work. The "Soul Theory" will also enable many
rigorous scientific studies to be carried out in this area to produce more
conclusive data and clarify the interactions of the soul and matter.
Hare Krishna!
Your servant,
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
Sudarsana Home madhudvisa@krishna.org