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arteast@parsifal.nando.net wrote:
>In <3slsmm$hu0@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>, madhudvisa@krishna.org (Madhudvisa dasa ) writes:
>>You've missed the point... Nothing changes. Everything remains exactly the
>>same.. It is only your view of the world that changes...
>Now there is something I can disagree with! Every thing changes. At the
>very least it changes position. What have you observed that does not
>change?
This is a communication problem only. I have failed to express what I am
saying clearly enough and you are also very attached to a rotating earth!
But the earth could be fixed and the universe rotating around it... It is
relatively speaking exactly the same...
>>You have explained all the observations with the model of fixed stars and
>>a rotating earth. In your model the rotation of the earth causes the sun,
>>the planets, the moon and the stars to rise and set every 24 hours. My
>>point is it could well be [and we have no way of telling] that the earth
>>is fixed and the whole universe is rotating around it every 24 hours...
>Now how does that explain the retrograde motion of planets?
There are many movements in the universe. But I am only talking about the
rotation of the earth. The movement that causes the sun, the
constellations and the planets to rise and set every 24 hours. It is
described [in my model] that this rotation is caused by the "wheel of
time" on which all the "fixed stars" are located. This wheel [which is not
actually a 2-dimensional wheel BTW.. It is a huge 3D structure..] So all
the fixed stars are "fixed" to the wheel of time. But the sun, moon and
the planets, while moving with the wheel of time [they rise and set with
the "fixed stars" every 24 hours], they have their own independent
movement on the wheel.. The Vedic cosmology divides the wheel of time into
constellations and you will see the stars always remain fixed, but the
sun, moon and the planets are seen in different constellations at
different times. It is this motion of the planets, moving with the wheel
of time and at the same time having their own independent motion that
causes the retrograde motion of the planets...
> If
>what you said is true, then the planets would always appear to us
>to move in the same direction and they have been observed changing
>direction. This indicates that the earth rotates.
It indicates there is relative rotation only. Either the earth is rotating
or the universe [the wheel of time] is rotating. The observations are
identical in both models. You can't tell what is going on by looking
through your telescope.
>>Nothing changes. Your radar distances are the same, all the relative
>>distances are the same. And when you go out into the universe in your
>>space-ship you start rotating with the universe as well. [but because you
>>think the stars are "fixed"] you look down and see good old mother earth
>>rotating...
>We have other ways of measuring the distance to stars. Triangulation for
>example. We can wait until the earth revolves us to a new position
>and then triangulate the distance to the star.
That doesn't change either. You have to think about it a little that's
all. It makes no difference whatsoever. The rotation could be in the
universe or it could be in the earth...
In my model the wheel of time is rotating on an axle which is tilted at an
angle 66.5 degrees. It is set up to rotate around the earth in such a way
that gives exactly the same relative movements you observe with your
triangulation... The motion is simply assumed to be in the universe rather
than in the earth... It seems unnatural and complicated to us but
presumably our model would also seem inconceivable to someone using this
model.
>We have many ways of telling these things, you are just blindly
>ignoring them.
Like what? It is impossible to tell and the physicists also agree with
this. So discuss it with them if you can't understand it...
>This sounds like your faith is based more on authority
>than truth.
There is no other way to find the truth. You have to find a perfect
authority. Science can't deal with "truth" only unknowns... It is an
accepted limitation of science...
>The difference between science and religion is that
>science does not state things to be absolute fact, they are supposed
>to continually modify their theories to fit the facts until they are
>closer to the truth.
Yes. But they never actually get the truth... If you find a proper
spiritual authority you can get the absolute truth immediately...
"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master.
Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The
self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen
the truth." (Bhagavad-gita 4,34)
Chant Hare Krishna and be Happy!
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) http://www.krishna.org
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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