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eL.G.Hulbert@ukc.ac.uk (lgh) wrote:
>In article <3p11fg$ioe@dingo.cc.uq.oz.au>,
>incredible! how can you glory in such a severe dogma???
>my beliefs are my beliefs, but i'm pretty wary of them,
>and i don't like it when they force me into a corner. i
>don't therefore, really like them so much. (i prefer to
>think of myself as independent.) i wish i had fewer
>beliefs.
That can be arranged. The soul is eternal. You are in the human form
now, you have a good brain and you can thoughtfully consider what's
going on around you and develop a belief system. If you don't want to
do this you will take your next birth accordingly. The tree's don't
have to worry about a belief system, neither do the lions and tigers in
the jungles or the eagles flying in the sky. It's only in the human
form we get the chance to think about these things...
You can "think yourself independent" but we are not independent. So
many things are forced on us. We don't want to get old, we don't want
to get sick, we don't want to die, but all these things [and many
others] are forced on us.
>but, as to your understanding of science, just remember that
>science is not krishna.
Everything is Krishna. That's one defination of Krishna.
maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina
mat-stani sarva-bhutani na caham tesu avasthitah
"By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All
beings are in Me, but I am not in them."
>there are no 'western scientists'.
>there is a thing some people (primarily westerners, who have
>the time and extra resources) *do* called 'science', an
>epistemological strategy. in any event, religion is not
>a verb, but a noun, heh.
>but, some questions for you:
>if a science textbook from 50 years ago is 'silly',
>does that mean that no progress has been made?
No. They have made progress. Science is a valid process to acquire some
knowledge about the world around us but it takes a long time and the
conclusions will never be perfect.
>if science seeks faith from a doctrine of imperceptible
>order, does krishna seek disproof from a doctrine of
>divined order?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
>i say that faith precludes disproof. and after you
>believe too much, you become a simple stimulus-response
>organism.
Everybody has faith. when you drive on the road you have faith the
other drivers will follow the road rules. There are so many things we
have faith in. The process of having faith is not a religious one but
on we all depend on in every aspect of our lives. How can you live
without faith in something? You have to believe something and that is
faith, even if your an atheist you have "faith" that there is no God.
>and, while you're at it, your beliefs may cause you to
>interpret reality in a way wholly different from the
>consensus reality. (and isn't that a goal of teen-angst
>anyway, and isn't that what groups like krishna have
>continually exploited mercilessly? Y/N [low blow question
>btw])
What is reality? Everyone sees the world through different eyes. Even
no-religious people. You see a completely different world to the one
your parents see for example. So where is the "consensus" and if there
is such a thing is it correct?
I don't understand the rest of what you have said, I don't know what
"teen-angust" is and I can't see how telling someone about Krishna is
"exploiting" them.
>as a result, you become either faithful or insane.
>or both. are you any of these?
We are faithful. We have faith in Krishna. But, as I have said before,
everyone has faith in something.
>while i'm certainly not anti-faith, belief, religion,
>whatever, i think you should be right careful about
>where you invest your beliefs. why do you believe
>what you believe?
For me Krishna consciousness is real. I can see Krishna, when I chant
Hare Krishna I feel His presence. These things are a little difficult
to explain but to me they are very real. The biggest practical proof of
the potency of Krishna consciousness is I am now not so interested in
pleasure from my senses. Before I was Krishna conscious my biggest
interest was sex but now my biggest interest is Krishna. It's a higher
pleasure and it's permanent. I know what I am, I am not this body, I am
the spirit soul within the body, I am eternal, and my real business is
to serve God, Krishna.
>once you decide what you want to believe in, go for it and
>believe in it (it is a good kinda thing to be able to do).
>but, be damned careful about what you choose to believe in.
This is VERY good advice. There are many cheaters everywhere...
>this is what you must do. people can get used to anything,
>the trick is to get used to the right things.
I agree.
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
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