- Prev: An All-Lovng God?
- Next: Re: Thought Question
- Index: The Sudarsana Archive -- Date Index
- Thread: The Sudarsana Archive -- Topic Index
Date Index | Topic Index
Sudarsana Home madhudvisa@krishna.org
mikeh@zeta.org.au (Michael Hore) wrote:
>madhudvisa@krishna.org (Madhudvisa dasa ) writes:
>> All the confusion stems from a misunderstanding of what this world is
>> for. We don't belong here. We have come here to try to be happy
>> independently from God. We want to be the controller, we want to be
>> god. To full our independent desires God has created this world, but
>> it's created in such a way that we can enjoy here but all our enjoyment
>> will end in frustration. It's actually created as a place of
>> frustration. If it was all "peaches and cream" we would never
>> contemplate leaving this place...
>[snip]
>> Some people, due to their good karma, do indeed enjoy happy lives here
>> while others, due to their bad karma, suffer like anything. THIS IS NOT
>> GOD's PARTIALITY. It is the result of OUR actions in the past. God
>> doesn't kill children in a bomb. Those children did something in their
>> previous lives so as a reaction they had to be killed in the bomb
>> blast. It's a result of their own activities...
>>
>> A devotee takes distress as Krishna's mercy and as an impetus to take
>> spiritual life more seriously.
>Thanks for this description of how you account for evil and suffering
>in the world - I guess this is the basically the position of Hinduism
>and related religions.
>Far be it from me to try and argue against the traditions of thousands
>of years in one posting! So I'll just talk about one point. I wonder
>if this worldview gives much motivation for compassion and practical
>concern for others. I can see one possible motivation - if God is all,
>and all is God, then in a sense I'm one with my neighbour. As someone
>said somewhere, "the sword that pierces your brother's heart pierces
>your own". (hmmm... should have been in the Bible :-) )
There is actually very little we can do to reduce suffering in the
world by material methods. I know this is an unpopular view but what
can I say?
I's not that we don't feel compassion for others, but compassion should
be spiritual, because suffering of all types is a result of sinful
activity. If you give someone spiritual knowledge then both the
immediate suffering and the suffering in the future is mitigated.
However if you just feed them and don't give any spiritual guidance the
root cause of the problem remains... You haven't really solved to
problem.
We, as devotees of Krishna, don't like to see anyone suffering so we
distribute prasadam, delicious food which has been offered to Krishna.
People get both material and spiritual benefits from this. So we want
to help people solve the real problems. Our help is on the spiritual
platform and permanent.
>But when the rubber hits the road does this really work to give much
>motivation? I know you spoke of this in another posting, but even
>there you seemed to be basically speaking of spiritual enlightenment
>rather than things like bandaging their wounds.
Our help is spiritual. There are so many organizations "bandaging
their wonds" but we want to stop the war! So we feel for peoples
suffering and are offering spiritual help. So many people have been
helped by the Hare Krishna movement in this way. It doesn't matter what
the problem is, if someone takes to Krishna consciousness there is no
problem any more... It gets rid of the cause of the problems.
You seem to have missed the point of my article though. I was
commenting on the difficulties Christian's have in explaining how a
"loving God" could inflict such suffering. It is not God doing it. It
is coming as a result of our sins in the past. "What you sow so shall
you reap..." That is the main point. So if I have performed some sinful
activities in the past I will have to suffer for that and there is
nothing you can do about that [materially] But you can help me
spiritually... So we are interested in dispensing spiritual help. There
is no shortage of material agencies to "bandage the wounds". There is,
however, almost no spiritual help -- this is the real source of all our
problems.
------------------
"Material compassion, lamentation and tears are all signs of ignorance
of the real self. Compassion for the eternal soul is self-realization.
The word ``Madhusudana'' is significant in this verse. Lord Krsna
killed the demon Madhu, and now Arjuna wanted Krsna to kill the demon
of misunderstanding that had overtaken him in the discharge of his
duty. No one knows where compassion should be applied. Compassion for
the dress of a drowning man is senseless. A man fallen in the ocean of
nescience cannot be saved simply by rescuing his outward dress--the
gross material body.
"One who does not know this and laments for the outward dress is called
a sudra, or one who laments unnecessarily. Arjuna was a ksatriya, and
this conduct was not expected from him. Lord Krsna, however, can
dissipate the lamentation of the ignorant man, and for this purpose the
Bhagavad-gita was sung by Him. This chapter instructs us in
self-realization by an analytical study of the material body and the
spirit soul, as explained by the supreme authority, Lord Sri Krsna.
This realization is possible when one works without attachment to
fruitive results and is situated in the fixed conception of the real
self." (purport to Bhagavad-gita 2.1 by His Divine Grace A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)
>After all, if they're
>wounded, they must have deserved it, so their suffering is helping
>them towards enlightenment. So why should I do anything to try to
>alleviate it?
We can't stop the suffering materially, that's the point. The results
of our past sinful and pious activities are stored in our hearts like
seeds and they will fructify at some point. The fruit of the pious
seeds brings pleasure and the fruit of the sinful seeds brings
suffering. You can stop a particular type of suffering [eg: the
scientists may find a vaccine for a particular disease] but because we
are destined to suffer nature will come up with another disease to take
it's place. It is not possible to reduce suffering this way, you can
only change it from one thing to another... We want to stop it
altogether.
This is Kali-yuga, the "Iron Age", the age of quarrel. It is not a very
easy time for spiritual life but we have on great boon. In this age
simply by chanting the holy name of God we can purify our hearts of all
sinful activities. It's like frying the seeds in our heart. If you fry
a seed it will not grow any more. So the sinful "karma" stored in our
hearts can be eradicated simply by chanting the name of God. So we are
giving people this knowledge. It is the best welfare work.
srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah
hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani vidhunoti suhrt satam
"Sri Krishna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma
(Supersoul) in everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful
devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the
devotee who has developed the urge to hear his messages, which are in
themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted." (Srimad Bhagavatam
1.2.17)
Thank you. Hare Krishna.
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
Sudarsana Home madhudvisa@krishna.org