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Marian said:
>>>>>So my question is now - could you please discriminate in detail for me
>>between
>>>>>mind
>>>>>intelligence
>>>>>spirit
>>>>>and I think there was a fourth, but can't recall it...
>>>
>>>> This is a very nice question. The third chapter of Bhagavad-gita is the
>>>> place to look for the answer...(Bhagavad-gita 3.42)
>>>
>>>> indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah
>>>> manasas tu para buddhir yo buddheh paratas tu sah
>>>
>>>>"The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the
>>>>senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind and he [the soul] is
>>>>even higher than the intelligence."
>>>
>>>> So there are five things: matter, the senses, the mind, the
>>>> intelligence and the soul. For a materialist his motivation starts at
>>>> the bottom, he looks to matter to satisfy his senses, he's controlled
>>>> by the demands of his senses. The tongue says to the mind, "get food",
>>>> the mind says to the intelligence, "get food" and the poor spirit soul
>>>> is more or less just sitting there watching the whole thing going on.
>>>
>>>> A transcendentalist, on the other hand uses his [or her - but really
>>>> we are not the body; the soul is not male or female... It depends on the
>>>> body it is in] intelligence for spiritual pursuits and he controls his
>>>> mind with his intelligence. So he, the spirit-soul is actually in
>>>> control.
>>>
>>>> You can see from this that a materialist is not actually free. His
>>>> senses are demanding satisfaction and the mind and intelligence are
>>>> working to provide that sense gratification. The example is given of
>>>> the driver of a carriage with the horses out of control... not very
>>>> comfortable!
>>>>
>>>> There is much more detail available but I'm interested in what you
>>>> think so far. Perhaps we can build on it in future postings?
>>This is fine except for me it does not go far enough. I am trying to learn
>>more of the writings of Sri Aurobindo - and unfortunately currently do not
>>own any texts - but he goes into finer detail on the above - particularly at
>>level of mind, and soul and beyond soul.
>>I'd cewrtainly like to do further clarification at this point but me ability
>>to explain myself clearly will be faulty.
These things (the mind and beyond) are nicely covered in the sixth
chapter of the Bhagavad-gita "Sankhya-yoga"
It's all there. It's best to read it and then ask more specific
questions. I really don't know where to start. So I have included part
of the sixth chapter below. I have a spare paperback copy of Srila
Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita here that I could mail to you if you don't
have it. If you just email me with your postal address I can put it in
the "old-fashioned" mail....
uddhared atmanatmanam
natmanam avasadayet
atmaiva hy atmano bandhur
atmaiva ripur atmanah
One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade
himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy
as well.
PURPORT
The word atma denotes body, mind and soul--depending upon different
circumstances. In the yoga system, the mind and the conditioned soul
are especially important. Since the mind is the central point of yoga
practice, atma refers here to the mind. The purpose of the yoga system
is to control the mind and to draw it away from attachment to sense
objects. It is stressed herein that the mind must be so trained that
it can deliver the conditioned soul from the mire of nescience. In
material existence one is subjected to the influence of the mind and
the senses. In fact, the pure soul is entangled in the material world
because the mind is involved with the false ego, which desires to lord
it over material nature. Therefore, the mind should be trained so that
it will not be attracted by the glitter of material nature, and in this
way the conditioned soul may be saved. One should not degrade oneself
by attraction to sense objects. The more one is attracted by sense
objects, the more one becomes entangled in material existence. The best
way to disentangle oneself is to always engage the mind in Krsna
consciousness. The word hi is used for emphasizing this point, i.e.,
that one must do this. It is also said:
``For man, mind is the cause of bondage and mind is the cause of
liberation. Mind absorbed in sense objects is the cause of bondage,
and mind detached from the sense objects is the cause of
liberation.'' (Amrta-bindu Upanisad 2)
Therefore, the mind which is always engaged in Krsna consciousness is
the cause of supreme liberation.
TEXT 6
bandhur atmatmanas tasya
yenatmaivatmana jitah
anatmanas tu satrutve
vartetatmaiva satru-vat
For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends;
but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest
enemy.
PURPORT
The purpose of practicing eightfold yoga is to control the mind in
order to make it a friend in discharging the human mission. Unless the
mind is controlled, the practice of yoga (for show) is simply a waste
of time. One who cannot control his mind lives always with the greatest
enemy, and thus his life and its mission are spoiled. The
constitutional position of the living entity is to carry out the order
of the superior. As long as one's mind remains an unconquered enemy,
one has to serve the dictations of lust, anger, avarice, illusion, etc.
But when the mind is conquered, one voluntarily agrees to abide by the
dictation of the Personality of Godhead, who is situated within the
heart of everyone as Paramatma. Real yoga practice entails meeting the
Paramatma within the heart and then following His dictation. For one
who takes to Krsna consciousness directly, perfect surrender to the
dictation of the Lord follows automatically.
TEXT 7
jitatmanah prasantasya
paramatma samahitah
sitosna-sukha-duhkhesu
tatha manapamanayoh
For one who has conquered the mind, the Supersoul is already reached,
for he has attained tranquillity. To such a man happiness and distress,
heat and cold, honor and dishonor are all the same.
PURPORT
Actually, every living entity is intended to abide by the dictation of
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is seated in everyone's heart
as Paramatma. When the mind is misled by the external, illusory energy,
one becomes entangled in material activities. Therefore, as soon as
one's mind is controlled through one of the yoga systems, one should be
considered to have already reached the destination. One has to abide by
superior dictation. When one's mind is fixed on the superior nature, he
has no alternative but to follow the dictation of the Supreme. The mind
must admit some superior dictation and follow it. The effect of
controlling the mind is that one automatically follows the dictation of
the Paramatma, or Supersoul. Because this transcendental position is at
once achieved by one who is in Krsna consciousness, the devotee of the
Lord is unaffected by the dualities of material existence, namely
distress and happiness, cold and heat, etc. This state is practical
samadhi, or absorption in the Supreme.
TEXT 8
jnana-vijnana-trptatma
kuta-stho vijitendriyah
yukta ity ucyate yogi
sama-lostrasma-kancanah
A person is said to be established in self-realization and is called a
yogi [or mystic] when he is fully satisfied by virtue of acquired
knowledge and realization. Such a person is situated in transcendence
and is self-controlled. He sees everything--whether it be pebbles,
stones or gold--as the same.
PURPORT
Book knowledge without realization of the Supreme Truth is useless.
This is stated as follows:
atah sri-krsna-namadi
na bhaved grahyam indriyaih
sevonmukhe hi jihvadau
svayam eva sphuraty adah
``No one can understand the transcendental nature of the name, form,
quality and pastimes of Sri Krsna through his materially contaminated
senses. Only when one becomes spiritually saturated by transcendental
service to the Lord are the transcendental name, form, quality and
pastimes of the Lord revealed to him.'' (Bhakti rasamrta-sindhu
1.2.234)
This Bhagavad-gita is the science of Krsna consciousness. No one can
become Krsna conscious simply by mundane scholarship. One must be
fortunate enough to associate with a person who is in pure
consciousness. A Krsna conscious person has realized knowledge, by the
grace of Krsna, because he is satisfied with pure devotional service.
By realized knowledge, one becomes perfect. By transcendental knowledge
one can remain steady in his convictions, but by mere academic
knowledge one can be easily deluded and confused by apparent
contradictions. It is the realized soul who is actually
self-controlled, because he is surrendered to Krsna. He is
transcendental because he has nothing to do with mundane scholarship.
For him mundane scholarship and mental speculation, which may be as
good as gold to others, are of no greater value than pebbles or
stones.
Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita.. We just have to read it.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Madhudvisa dasa .
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
Sudarsana Home madhudvisa@krishna.org