Allen Papapetrou <gap@freenet.ufl.edu> wrote:
>On 7 Jun 1995, Hari Krishna Susarla wrote:
>{snip}
>> Now, it seems to me that if someone is going to undertake to preach the
>> message of Bhagavad-Gita, then he should also be a follower of the Gita.
The
>> whole point of the Gita is that we should become devotees of Lord
Krishna. If
>> a nondevotee tries to give some commentary on the Gita, then his
commentary is
>> pointless, since he is not taking the Gita's message seriously.
>Reading the Geetha Vahini of Sri Sathya Sai Baba, my understanding of the
>Gita was that we are incarnations of the divine as was Lord Krishna.
We are part and parcel of Krishna. We are the vibhinamsa-jivas, the minute
expansions of Krishna. But there is a difference between us and Krishna. We are
the same qualitatively but not quantitatively. The gold in an earring is
qualitatively equal to the gold in the gold-mine but there is tons of gold in the
mine and only a couple of ounces in the earring...
(Katha Upanisad 2.2.13):
nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam
eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman
"The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord
is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the
Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living
entities."
So there is one supreme eternal [Krishna] who supplies the necessities to all the
other subordinate eternals. [The living entities]
This is the decision of all the Vedic literature... Krishna, God is the supreme
nitya, the supreme individual and we are His servants...
>His incarnation was aware of this truth
There are two classes of living entities: visnu-tattva and jiva-tattva. The Visnu-
tattva is God, Krishna, the jiva-tattvas are us, the living entities. We are
called tattastha, or marginal, because we can either associate with Krishna or we
can associate with maya. It is our choice. The example of the beach is given. The
area of sand which is sometimes covered by water and sometimes not is marginal,
tattastha. So we [the jiva's] can be covered by maya, but Krishna [Visnu-tattva]
can _NEVER_ be put into illusion by maya. Maya can cover our eyes [as we are the
marginal potency] but maya can NEVER cover Krishna's eyes!
Krishna Himself clearly describes Himself as the Supreme Person, clearly
distinguishing Himself from the ordinary jivas. There are so many clear statements
in the Gita...
vedaham samatitani
vartamanani carjuna
bhavisyani ca bhutani
mam tu veda na kascana
"O Arjuna, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, I know everything
that has happened in the past, all that is happening in the present, and
all things that are yet to come. I also know all living entities; but Me
no one knows."(Bhagavad-gita 7.26)
So you see here Krishna is clearly saying "mam", Me. It is the first person. It is
very clear. Krishna knows everything, past, present and future, but you don't...
Still you claim you are Krishna... The only problem is [you say] that you are in
maya... When you are out of maya you will then know past, present and future just
like Krishna? Right?
But Krishna is never covered by maya... Maya is one of the energies of Krishna.
Just like the clouds are produced by the sun and to the puny living entities on
earth the sun appears to be covered by the clouds... But the clouds can never
cover the sun. What is happening is the clouds have covered your eyes so you can't
see the sun. But the sun is there, above the clouds. If you get in an airplane and
fly above the clouds you will see.... So maya is like the clouds. Maya covers our
eyes. Maya can't cover Krishna's eyes!. So your eyes are covered by maya and you
say when they are uncovered you will be Krishna! This is nonsense. If your eyes
are covered by maya _YOU_ARE_NOT_KRISHNA_.You are covered by maya certainly, but
when you are free from maya you will _SEE_KRISHNA_YOU_WILL_NOT_BE_KRISHNA!
In the Srimad Bhagavatam Queen Kunti asks the Lord to lift the curtain of maya so
she can see Him... NOT SO SHE CAN BE HIM!!!!
hiranmayena patrena
satyasyapihitam mukham
tat tvam pusann apavrnu
satya-dharmaya drstaye
"O my Lord, You are the maintainer of the entire universe, and
devotional service to You is the highest religious principle. Therefore, I
pray that You will also maintain me. Your transcendental form is covered
by the yoga-maya. The brahmajyoti is the covering of the internal potency.
May You kindly remove this glowing effulgence that impedes my seeing Your
sac-cid-ananda-vigraha, Your eternal form of bliss and knowledge." (Srimad
Bhagavatam 1.8.19)
>and aware that most incarnations are not aware of their divinity.
This childish drivel deserves language I am not accustomed to use at all!
You are showing COMPLETE IGNORANCE of the Bhagavad-gita...
mattah parataram nanyat
kincid asti dhananjaya
mayi sarvam idam protam
sutre mani-gana iva
"O conqueror of wealth, there is no truth superior to Me. Everything
rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."(Bhagavad-gita 7.8)
If there is "no truth superior to Krishna" [again you'll notice it is Krishna
speaking and He is clearly using the first person clearly referring to Himself
when He says mattah - "beyond Me" and mayi - "in Me", then
HOW_CAN_MAYA_COVER_KRISHNA?
Clearly it is you who are covered by maya. You are not Krishna's Vishnu-tattva
expansion you are His jiva-tattva expansion... These are very simple things. But
the mayavadis [those who believe Krishna accepts a body made out of maya like us]
can not understand these simple truths:
naham prakasah sarvasya
yoga-maya-samavrtah
mudho 'yam nabhijanati
loko mam ajam avyayam
"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am
covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am
unborn and infallible."(Bhagavad-gita 7.25)
PURPORT
By His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
There is a common controversy over whether the Supreme Absolute Truth
is personal or impersonal. As far as Bhagavad-gita is concerned, the
Absolute Truth is the Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, and this is
confirmed in every step. In this verse, in particular, it is stressed that
the Absolute Truth is a person. That the Personality of Godhead is the
Supreme Absolute Truth is also the affirmation of the Brahma-samhita:
isvarah paramah krsnah sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah; that is, the Supreme
Absolute Truth Personality of Godhead is Lord Krsna, who is the primeval
Lord, the reservoir of all pleasure, Govinda, and the eternal form of
complete bliss and knowledge. These authorities leave no doubt that the
Absolute Truth is the Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. The
impersonalist, however, argues on the strength of the Vedic version given
in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.10):
tato yad uttarataram tad arupam anamayam
ya etad vidur amrtas te bhavanti athetare duhkham evapiyanti.
"In the material world Brahma, the primeval living entity within the
universe, is understood to be the supreme amongst the demigods, human
beings and lower animals. But beyond Brahma there is the Transcendence,
who has no material form and is free from all material contaminations.
Anyone who can know Him also becomes transcendental, but those who do not
know Him suffer the miseries of the material world."
The impersonalist puts more stress on the word arupam. But this
arupam is not impersonal. It indicates the transcendental form of
eternity, bliss and knowledge as described in the Brahma-samhita quoted
above. Other verses in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.8-9) substantiate this
as follows:
vedaham etam purusam mahantam
aditya-varnam tamasah parastat
tam eva vidvan ati mrtyum eti
nanyah pantha vidyate 'yanaya
yasmat param naparam asti kincid
yasman naniyo no jyayo 'sti kincit
vrksa iva stabdho divi tisthaty ekas
tenedam purnam purusena sarvam
"I know that Supreme Personality of Godhead who is transcendental to
all material conceptions of darkness. Only he who knows Him can transcend
the bonds of birth and death. There is no way for liberation other than
this knowledge of that Supreme Person."
"There is no truth superior to that Supreme Person, because He is
the supermost. He is smaller than the smallest, and He is greater than the
greatest. He is situated as a silent tree, and He illumines the
transcendental sky, and as a tree spreads its roots, He spreads His
extensive energies."
By these verses one concludes the Supreme Absolute Truth is
the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is all-pervading by His
multi-energies, both material and spiritual.
Chant Hare Krishna and be Happy!
Thank you. Hare Krishna!
Madhudvisa dasa
(madhudvisa@krishna.org) /sudarsana
All glories to His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada!
Sudarsana
Home madhudvisa@krishna.org