Published on June 23rd, 2021 | by pratyatosa-dasa | Full size image57
Srila Prabhupada Speaks about his Gaudiya Math Godbrothers
I can understand someone getting a little bewildered about our relationship with Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers before his letters and conversations were published, but what excuse does anyone have now? Any of Srila Prabhupada’s so-called disciples who still insist on associating with Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers or godnephews after reading the quotes below are obviously not very sincere or very serious about following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Please keep in mind, while reading the quotes below, that Srila Prabhupada has never retracted any of them. Some extremely self motivated people might say that he apologized to his godbrothers on his death bed, but how can this be considered any more than just polite talk, or setting an example for his disciples of how to try and make amends before leaving this material realm?
Also, I have never heard of any tape recording which documents this supposed apology, and it’s not in the VedaBase. Where is the proof?
Even if Srila Prabhupada did apologize to some of his godbrothers, how could this be considered a retraction, especially for the April, 1974 letter to Rupanuga, which is a signed document, and which contains the instruction to all of his disciples, “This is my instruction to you all.” No contradictory instruction that even comes close to this direct, authoritative, signed document has ever been produced.
I can understand someone getting a little bewildered about our relationship with Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers before his letters and conversations were published, but what excuse does anyone have now? Any of Srila Prabhupada’s so-called disciples who still insist on associating with Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers or godnephews after reading the quotes below is obviously not very sincere or very serious about following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY INTIMATE CONNECTION WITH THEM
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Pradyumna 02/17/68:
“Regarding Bhakti Puri Tirtha Maharaja, they are my God-brothers and should be shown respect. But you should not have any intimate connection with them as they have gone against the orders of my Guru Maharaja.”
NO POSSIBILITY OF COMPROMISE
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Narayana Maharaja 9/30/69:
“Regarding the 92 section case against the Gaudiya Math, I don’t think there is any possibility of compromise. Both the Bhagbazar Party [Sridhar Maharaja’s group] and Mayapur party [Tirtha Maharaja’s group] have unlawfully usurped the missionary institution of Srila Prabhupada, and whenever they will talk of a compromise, it means another complication.”
MY FOURTH-CLASS GODBROTHERS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Hayagriva 9/14/70:
“Disturbance is caused by ignorance; where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance. The four Sannyasis may bark, but still the caravan will pass. There is every evidence that they are influenced by some of my fourth-class Godbrothers.”
THEY WILL BE ENVIOUS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Yamuna 11/18/70:
“Regarding the Gaudiya Math, our position has nothing to do with them. They cannot do anything and if somebody does something, they will be envious. That is the nature of third class men.”
MY GODBROTHERS GAVE ME ONLY DEPRESSION
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Gurudasa 8/29/72:
“Do not be depressed. All along my godbrothers gave me only depression, repression, compression–but I continued strong in my duty. So never mind there is some discouragement, continue with your work in full enthusiastic Krishna Consciousness attitude of service.”
THEY HAVE ALL BECOME SUDRAS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Niranjana 5/21/73:
“Our big, big godbrothers in India, they could not preach Lord Gauranga’s name all over India. They are simply inclined to criticize me, that my students call me Prabhupada. They could not do anything practical and tangible. They are satisfied with a temple and a few disciples begging alms for the maintenance of the temple.
“So, we can understand that they have all become sudras. How can they have interest in Bhagavad-gita. Although some of them have been born in brahmana families, but by quality are all sudras.”
GAUDIYA MATH BOOKS SHOULD NOT BE CIRCULATED IN OUR SOCIETY
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Sukadeva 11/14/73:
“Regarding the Gaudiya Math books being circulated there, who is distributing? Who is sending these books? The Gaudiya Math does not sell our books, why we should sell their books. Who has introduced these books? Let me know. These books should not at all be circulated in our Society. Bhakti Vilas Tirtha is very much antagonistic to our society and he has no clear conception of devotional service. He is contaminated. Anyway, who has introduced these books? You say that you would read only one book if that was all that I had written, so you teach others to do like that. You have very good determination.”
THIS IS MY INSTRUCTION TO YOU ALL
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Rupanuga 4/28/74:
“In the latter days of my Guru Maharaja he was very disgusted. Actually, he left this world earlier, otherwise he would have continued to live for more years. Still he requested his disciples to form a strong Governing body for preaching the cult of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. But Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja, and he and others who are already dead unnecessarily thought that there must be one acarya. If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. His idea was acarya was not to be nominated amongst the governing body. He said openly you make a GBC and conduct the mission. So his idea was amongst the members of GBC who would come out successful and self effulgent acarya would be automatically selected. So Sridhara Maharaja and his two associate gentlemen unauthorizedly selected one acarya and later it proved a failure. The result is now everyone is claiming to be acarya even though they may be kanistha adhikari with no ability to preach. In some of the camps the acarya is being changed three times a year. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp. Actually amongst my Godbrothers no one is qualified to become acarya. So it is better not to mix with my Godbrothers very intimately because instead of inspiring our students and disciples they may sometimes pollute them. This attempt was made previously by them, especially Madhava Maharaja and Tirtha Maharaja and Bon Maharaja but somehow or other I saved the situation. This is going on. We shall be very careful about them and not mix with them. This is my instruction to you all. They cannot help us in our movement, but they are very competent to harm our natural progress. So we must be very careful about them.”
THEIR PROPOSAL FOR COOPERATION IS A MYTH
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to aCUTANANDA 6/8/74:
“You should not write anything to Madhava Maharaja’s camp. You may have talked many things with Mangala Niloy but why write him in black and white. The letter must not be sent. Their policy has been all along to suppress me and take credit for himself. Their proposal for cooperation is a myth. They haven’t done anything which is cooperative. You know in a recent article they managed to write in such a way that Madhava is doing the world movement and we are his subordinate. From the beginning that has been their mentality. So there is no possibility of cooperation with them. Rather you should avoid strictly meeting with them. They are not after preaching but material gain and reputation and adoration. Otherwise why they are non cooperating with me? So no cooperation is possible. Do not think or indulge in loose talks. Be careful always. Let us do the duty of propagation sincerely and seriously on our own principles. Krsna and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura are our only hope and they and helping us. If anything thing has to be done it is to be talked on the higher level between Madhava Maharaja and myself, but I know his mentality is different and there is no possibility of cooperation.”
SMASHED…ON ACCOUNT OF PERSONAL AMBITIONS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Karandhara 10/8/74:
“In India some of the important members they have collected huge amounts in the name of the Society and spent it luxuriously. I wanted you all my experienced disciples should manage the whole institution very cleverly without any personal ambition like ordinary materialistic men. The Gaudiya Math institution has become smashed, at least stopped its program of preaching work on account of personal ambitions.”
MY GODBROTHERS ARE CONCERNED WITH POLITICS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Subala 10/15/74:
“My other godbrothers they are concerned with litigations, politics, and diplomacy, so what is the pracara? As far as I am concerned I have the blessings of my guru maharaj. I do not need anything else. That is how I went to your country, just to try to carry out his order. By his blessings it has come out successful.”
THEY ARE NOT EVEN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation with a Reporter in Johannesburg 10/16/75:
“Krsna sakti vina nahe krsna name pracara: ‘Without Krsna’s special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name.’ Caitanya-caritamrta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that… What he has written? Bon Maharaja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They’re envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaisnava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsaranam satam. This Bhagavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaisnava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that ‘Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti.’ Why he should be envious? Vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaisnava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaisnava’s qualification. So Vaisnava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaisnava. Vaisnava cannot be envious. Vaisnava should be: ‘Oh, my Lord’s name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Krsna known.’ That man has appreciated, that ‘All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man… You are… It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Krsna.’ This is an appreciation. Why he should be envious? He should be, rather, very much enthused that ‘This single man is keeping Krsna all over the world.’ And everyone is deriding. Even Gandhi is killing Krsna. Dr. Radhakrishnan is killing. Their only business is to kill Krsna. He is also doing that, our, this Bon Maharaja. He never speaks of Krsna. His rascal, that Institute of Indian Philosophy, nobody goes to [pass] urine there. We see practically. And our temple is always filled up, five hundred men. And he is trying for the last forty years. He is simply planning: ‘This will be playground. This will be this ground. This will be this ground.’ And it is becoming jungle. Still, he is so envious, black snake. So one circular letter should be issued to all our center, that ‘Any Bon Maharaja or anyone, his representative, should not be received.’ They are envious. Yes. Quoting that. We have got several complaints like that. Satsvarupa also complained. Sometimes our order was cancelled by Bon Maharaja’s propaganda.”
IN THE GAUDIYA MATH POLITICS IS STILL GOING ON
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Gurukrpa, 9/30/75:
“Why is there this politics? This is not good. If politics come, then the preaching will be stopped. That is the difficulty. As soon as politics come, everything is spoiled. In the Gaudiya Math the politics is still going on. My Guru Maharaja left in 1936, and now it is 1976, so after 40 years the litigation is still going on. Do not come to this.”
PLEASE AVOID MY GODBROTHERS
Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Visvakarma, 11/9/75:
“So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my godbrothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them.”
THEY ARE DRESSING LIKE VAISNAVA, AND THEY ARE SO ENVIOUS
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation in Bombay 1/8/77:
“There are similarly men also. Unnecessarily they are envious, offensive, unnecessary. They cannot tolerate others’ opulence. Just like our Godbrothers. They are envious. What I have done to them? I am doing my business, trying to serve my Guru Maharaja. But they are envious because I am so opulent. I have got so much fame, so many influence, so much influence all over the world. Everyone is praising me about… That is ignorance. And this is regrettable because they are posing themselves as Vaisnava. Ordinary man can do that, but they are dressing like Vaisnava, and they are so envious. That Tirtha Maharaja, unnecessarily he was envious, whole life fighting, fighting, fighting in the court and died. Simply planning.”
THESE PEOPLE ARE ENVIOUS
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation in Vrindaban 5/24/77:
“If somebody thinks, ‘Oh, here is a snake with jewel. Let me embrace him, no, no, no, it is very ferocious. Even it is jewel there, it is ferocious. Similarly, these people are envious. Although they have become so-called Vaisnava, they are ferocious. They have not acquired the qualification of Vaisnava. Simply vesopidin(?), by dress.”
“[Krishna consciousness] is simple for the simple, but it is very hard for the crooked.” (Initiation lecture by Srila Prabhupada, Boston 12/26/69)
The “simple” disciple of Srila Prabhupada will simply follow his or her spiritual master’s instructions, and refuse to associate with any of Srila Prabhupada’s godbrothers or godnephews. The “crooked” disciple, on the other hand, finds so many excuses to try and rationalize such forbidden association.
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa
Why did srila prabhupad ask not to circulate gaudiya math’s books? Did they have wrong teaching. If yes then why ? Weren’t those teachings given by bhakti siddhant saraswati thakur?
Yes. Gaudiya Matha disobeyed the orders of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta. You can read Srila Prabhupada’s conclusion in his purports in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta. Summary is because they disobeyed Srila Bhaktsiddhanta, particularly on how the Gaudiya Matha was to be managed and preaching was to go on after his disappearance, Bhaktsiddhanta wanted his leading disciples to form a Governing Body Commission and manage the preaching together, but on his disappearance they illegally appointed an acharya and there were so many fights and the whole preaching mission stopped.
So Prabhupada’s conclusion is that Gudiya Matha is asara, useless, now a disconnected branch of the Caitanya tree, an upasampradaya. So because they are disconnected from the Caitanya tree they have no life, no ability to preach and no power to deliver Krishna consciousness to anyone. So we have nothing to do with Gaudiya Matha members or publications.
Hare Krishna prem namaste 🙏 Prabhuji Tanq for being a dedicated n Loyal servant of Srila Prabhu pada . My question to you do you think there members are to be called or identified as disciples of Bhakti Siddhantha Maharaja ,as none of them followed the instructions of their Sm Tanq 🙏
The only disciple of Bhaktsiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura who took his instructions as his life and soul and followed them is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. All other so-called disciples completely disobeyed the orders of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta by falsely elevating everyone to the status of acharya on his disappearance. So the Gaudiya Matha, as Srila Prabhupada clearly declares in his Sri Caitanya-caritamrta purports, is asara, or useless. They have disconnected themselves from the Caitanya tree. The Gaudiya Matha has no potency whatsoever to spread Krishna consciousness, love of God, to anyone at all. They are like an electrical appliance that is disconnected from the power supply. May look very wonderful, but actually useless, no power.
This is great weeks after SP departed, time after time I approach the GBC member to collect all the information they had with SP and His envious godbrothers and publish it as a hand book for ISKCON members along with SP quotes to make them aware of the situation and intentions of SP godbrothers but they never did. I being a small pot washer pee wee devotee my words was worth nothing —— I foesaw the comming of the gaudiamot attack on ISKCON with success if we don’t cautiously preach and publish against the gaudiamot sneaky and successful plot to either take over or destroy iskcon as SP warned us about early on —– nothing was ever done. If people are well informed and educated about the matter of the Gaudimot intentions they will remain in IGNORANT and vaunarable as we are today. Your servant: Jivadhara Dasa ACBSP
I m in love with sri sri radha madhav ji from my childhood, i want some support which can increase my devotion for lord. When I complete my 14 year . I get interested in sri chaitanya Mahaprabhu and his teachings. I want some ACCOSIATION which can help me to approach krishna through the teachings of lord chaitanya mahaprabhu, so i meet without one person (now he got diksha ) have tilaka on his forehead and mala in his hand I got very impressed and he is from gaidiya math , slowly slowly oli start conversation with him and he take me to gaudiya math near my home so i get very impressed by the love dance devition and deities of radha krishna there. I thought that i got one stick which help me to approach Krsna. But when he ask me to do parnam to their gurudev i dont get it right means somewhere it is pinching my heart that the guru is one from whom u get attached and in love which is spiritually charming, but sorry to say I dont see any of this quality in the image. But I’m very impressed by isckon i thought that isckon and math is same as there deities, mahapeabhu, some prayers are same but i m in love with isckon and I heard about swami prabhupad when I listen this name i get sure that this is one which can take my to Krsna. I daily listen his lectures, prayers, chanting. And I see all qualities of guru in him. I go to isckon ( but it is little far from my home ) and I feel blessed when I saw image is Swami prabhupad . His sacrifice, work, hardworking life, love, devotion really touched my heart you but what can i do as my parents don’t allow me to go to isckon as it is little far as compared to gaudiya math so they are getting worry about me that how I can go there you can understand mother’s care. So now I m 17 and when I was 15 I bring sri radha madhav deities to my home and serve them. I do cooking for them follow all rules and celebrate all festival at my home. But i m attached to prabhupad as guru so, I do tilaka, wearing dhoti do harinam my devotion is increasing I want to get guru parampara image at my home so when I go to get that image I saw that from math there are different parampara as there is two more guru but in isckon guru parampara image I got 5 adding prapupada maharaj so what I do plz tell me , clarify my doubt, will I take image of isckon parampara as I got attached by them or what plzzzzzzz
I wanted to ask you an unrelated question. Why do we say (preferably with scriptural references) we should eat less spiritually evolved organisms (plants instead of animals, and when we must eat animals, then lower animals like fish over higher animals like mammals?). Is this also the reason why life of a Brahmana is worth more than life of a Shudra (since it is a bigger sin to kill Brahmana)?
We cook for Krishna, we don’t cook for ourselves. So we cook Krishna the foods Krishna wants to eat. That is from the groups of milk products, grains, fruits and vegetables. That is what Krishna eats, and we are cooking for Krishna. So we only accept Krishna prasadam, food that has been offered to Krsihna. So just try to understand this. We are cooking for Krishna, we have to cook the things Krishna likes to eat. The idea is to develop love for Krishna. To prepare an offering with love and devotion. So if you are cooking for someone you love you cook them the things they like…
I have a query to ask. We see there are so many articles published in internet which talks about A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami has said such and such thing on a particular date . There are many such articles where it shows that A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami had criticised his own god brothers who are direct disciples of Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Goswami Prabhupad. Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had instructed that we should not criticise anyone in this world. However we see there are many such articles where a.c.bhaktivedanta swami had directly criticised his godbrothers with their names. We need to know how true these things are? are these really told by a.c.bhaktivedanta swami? is there any evidence presently available which can suffice this? if there are no such evidences , then we are just putting wrongs facts on a social forum and also by doing that it is a.c.bhaktivedanta swami’s own credibility is going down . We should not be criticising a baisnab publicly after all. please respond.
Hare Krishna Aman
In Kali-yuga there are so many dressed up as Vaisnavas but who are actually internally servants of Kali. That is the problem. So we can ‘call a spade a spade’. There is no problem in telling the truth. So Prabhupada simply told the truth about his godbrothers. You can have complete faith that what Prabhupada said about his godbrothers is correct.
We don’t care what people think, we care what Krishna thinks, so speaking the truth, even though it may be difficult, sometimes it has to be done.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Where is audio
These are quotes from letters. So there is no audio for a letter….
Funny, I heard this mostly in the 80’s. But fortunately most of thoose who brought this comments, out of context up are gone. Swami Maharaj, Prabhupada did not know all His 60 000 Godbrothers. So put a general opinion that They all are bad is like claiming that all ISKCON Gurus are bad, none of theese 2 statements are true. It only have opposite effect than intended. One do not become greater by mocking others. And if They are Dead and not able to defend Themself against accusations it just becomes below Kindergarten level.
Better focus on eliminating the Asuras, like sexual predators, womenbeaters, childbeaters and such who hurt the Devotees, whoever they are, wherever the are.
The whole Gaudiya matha is a disconnected branch of the Caitanya Tree. Srila Prabhupada clearly explains this in his Sri Caitanya-caritamrta purports. He explains that before Srila Bhaktsiddhanta departed there were so many discussions, but he did not recommend anyone become the acharya of the Gaudiya Matha after his passing. But then the disciples unauthorizedly appointed an acarya which did not work and there was so much fractional fighting and all the ‘big’ devotees were claiming they were acharyas and fighting and the preaching stopped. So the point is because the Gaudiya Matha did not follow the instructions of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta they disconnected themselves from the Caitanya tree. So, for a short time, a disconnected branch can look like a branch of the tree, but soon it will dry up and rot and disappear. That is the situation of the Gaudiya Matha. So there may be sincere people in it of course. But it is like plugging your electrical appliance into a power socket that is not connected to the generator. There is no power in that socket, so no matter what you do with your gadget, it will not work, plugged into that socket that is not connected to the electricity supply. So the Gaudiya Matha is no longer connected to the Krishna supply. So they can not deliver Krishna consciousness. No matter how sincere or otherwise the members may be.
Prabhupada did not say that “the Whole Gaudiya matha is a disconnected branch of the Chaitanya tree” where is it written in CC. Nowhere does he say this.
Prabhupada certainly says Gaudiya Matha is a disconnected branch of the Caitanya tree in Caitanya-caritamrta:
Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila Chapter 12 TEXT 8
prathame ta’ eka-mata ācāryera gaṇa
pāche dui-mata haila daivera kāraṇa
At first all the followers of Advaita Ācārya shared a single opinion. But later they followed two different opinions, as ordained by providence.
The words daivera kāraṇa indicate that by dint of providence, or by God’s will, the followers of Advaita Ācārya divided into two parties. Such disagreement among the disciples of one ācārya is also found among the members of the Gauḍīya Maṭha. In the beginning, during the presence of Oṁ Viṣṇupāda Paramahaṁsa Parivrājakācārya Aṣṭottara-śata Śrī Śrīmad Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda, all the disciples worked in agreement; but just after his disappearance, they disagreed. One party strictly followed the instructions of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, but another group created their own concoction about executing his desires. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, at the time of his departure, requested all his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not instruct a particular man to become the next ācārya. But just after his passing away, his leading secretaries made plans, without authority, to occupy the post of ācārya, and they split into two factions over who the next ācārya would be. Consequently, both factions were asāra, or useless, because they had no authority, having disobeyed the order of the spiritual master. Despite the spiritual master’s order to form a governing body and execute the missionary activities of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, the two unauthorized factions began litigation that is still going on after forty years with no decision.
Therefore, we do not belong to any faction. But because the two parties, busy dividing the material assets of the Gauḍīya Maṭha institution, stopped the preaching work, we took up the mission of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura and Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura to preach the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu all over the world, under the protection of all the predecessor ācāryas, and we find that our humble attempt has been successful. We followed the principles especially explained by Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā verse vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana. According to this instruction of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, it is the duty of a disciple to follow strictly the orders of his spiritual master. The secret of success in advancement in spiritual life is the firm faith of the disciple in the orders of his spiritual master. The Vedas confirm this:
yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
“To one who has staunch faith in the words of the spiritual master and the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the secret of success in Vedic knowledge is revealed.” The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being propagated according to this principle, and therefore our preaching work is going on successfully, in spite of the many impediments offered by antagonistic demons, because we are getting positive help from our previous ācāryas. One must judge every action by its result. The members of the self-appointed ācārya’s party who occupied the property of the Gauḍīya Maṭha are satisfied, but they could make no progress in preaching. Therefore by the result of their actions one should know that they are asāra, or useless, whereas the success of the ISKCON party, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, which strictly follows guru and Gaurāṅga, is increasing daily all over the world. Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura wanted to print as many books as possible and distribute them all over the world. We have tried our best in this connection, and we are getting results beyond our expectations.
The topics addressed in this publication I also, onece heard, from SP in morning class.
However, over time I tried to get the early GBC and others to compile the untold battle between SP and the Gaudia Mot, the things and fabricated rumors they were spreading that it is them who started ISKCON that SP stole at its point of success —–all sorts of news from India, sometimes daily, relayed to us in New York in the 70;s —- if you can contact the older heads mainly those who accompanied SPand get their experiences and publish it. A lot of ignorant, uninformed, people these are going to the Gaudia Mot for initation they proudly flaunt as disciples them believing SP godbrotwhers is as good as SP and by far better than the current ISKCON initiating gurus — believing that they are more advance than ISKCON second generation disciples, ‘O’ I am a disciple of SP god brother, they proudly express with great pride.
If you can collect the details of SP several meeting with his godbrotwhers and the negative things they said and still saying—– Shortly after SP departure, they all grab the title ‘Bhaktvedanta’ as they call themselves today, claiming thtat Bhaktisiddanta made them all Bhaktivedantas. We need to get this missing history of SP and the Gaudia mot to inform the public and members of ISKCON. Hoping for your feed back Hare Krishna
Jivadhara Dasa ACBSP.
Hare Krishna, the politics and break up, similar to gaudiya math is happening in ISKCON also. Why is this? Why the persons so closely associated with Srila Prabhupada not taking control of these?
Same thing always happens after the guru disappears from our material vision. Disaster in the gurus organization. Srila Bhaktsiddhanta explains that there is nothing that can stop the Puttanas [demons] from taking over the pulpits once the empowered acharya leaves. So that is what happened in the Gaudiya Matha and that is what has happened in ISKCON. So it is up to the next empowered Acharya to start a new preaching mission to continue pushing Srila Prabhupada’s and Lord Caitanya’s mission on. That is the way it works. That is the way it has always worked. Things deteriorate in the organization once the empowered acharya disappears because the demons take control…
Exactly….iskcon has totally killed Srila Prabhupada and his divine books…worst thing is even prabhupada’s books are edited,his divine instructions are misrepresented and the so called self appointed guru maharajas are selling books written by themselves… One thing that they don’t know is Krishna is witnessing all this disservice done to his most loving devotee….he will punish them accordingly…. You can see how jaya pataka swami is now facing the reactions for all his offenses to Prabhupada.
Prabhupada’s original books are available at:
So get them and read them and forget about ISKCON…
All glories to Srila Prabhupada,
thank you for your report. He has made me think and gives me confidence.
Three years ago (and I was very Clueless) I went to Swami Paramadvaiti and spent three years with His disciples and him.
Very quickly I realized that his students did not take it so exactly with the rules. I saw devotees drank the so-called non-alcoholic beer (each of these drinks has 0.5% alcohol) they ate Boga, garlic, chocolate usw.In a temple were annoying rats simply killed. When you drew attention to this offense you were ignored. With all these offenses the devotees I went to Swami and told him Paramadvaiti of these abuses. He did not respond, saying only, I should not be so perfect.
I erlebete many litigations between the devotees. It entered into relations. The broke and ran behind a hostile mood.
All this made me go to the ISKCON (but with caution). Only Srila Prabhupada’s instructions and teachings are important to me and I thank Krishna for which he showed me. What does it mean to commit serious deviations and to suffer the consequences.
I would be grateful if someone writes to me. With respect to Swami Paramadvaiti.
Blessed be the Lord, blessed be Srila Prabhupada, be blessed the Vaisnavas
Hare Krishna Thomas
Yes. I stayed for some time with some devotees of Vrnda. And my experience was similar. Many are very nice and sincere but the swami does not preach very strongly or encourage his disciples to follow the regulative principles very strictly and he does not impose any minimum number of rounds to chant. In fact many of them seem to never chant japa on beads.
The problem is he went to Gaudiya Matha, this is a Gaudiya Math institution and Srila Prabhupada confirms in Caitanya-caritamrta that the Gaudiya Matha branch of the Caitanya tree is dead. They have no potency to deliver Krishna consciousness at all. That is the problem. They can not deliver Krishna consciousness because they are disconnected from the tree of Krishna consciousness.
ISKCON is also disconnected now…
So you are right in just surrendering to Srila Prabhupada. That is where you will find Krishna, from Srila Prabhupada.
There is no point in criticizing devotees. It is better to try and inspire them. So it would be more positive for you to become a pure devotee of Krishna by surrendering to Srila Prabhupada and serving him and then you can preach and make others also pure devotees of Krishna.
Practically everyone is bogus so there is really no credit in pointing out all the details of exactly how they are bogus…
“Such a great soul is very rare…” Srila Prabhupada is such a great soul. We should take advantage of his association and surrender to him and serve him and by his mercy become pure devotees of Krishna. Then we will have some potency to preach.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Thanks for the website and newsletter. it was nor easy to find your site
indeed with time devotees have started to act in a very sentimental way thinking it to be compassion. We should all reflect on the cause of the instruction of Prabhupada and just abide to it without trying to interpret it. Our mind is presently full of garbage thus we wont be able really understand.Personally i know loads of devotees from the other camps, i respect em a lot but when it comes to association then i prefer to abide with Prabhupada statement for i have Him in my heart. We have to learn to believe in Srila Prabhupada else we shall remain a bunch of sentimentalists..Once i asked it to an ISKCON sanyasi and he boldly told me: WE DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THEM, PRABHUPADA ALREADY GAVE EVERYTHING SO DONT LOOK ELSEWHERE!!!!
Dear Rasika Sindhu Das Prabhu,
The guy who said that to you actually reads more other books then SP. If you have chances to observe him very closely you will even find more defects in him which are not appropriate for a Sannyasi. Vaisnava Das
Hare Krishna prabhuji
a college student from india-rajasthan-udaipur(lake city)
prabhu..As Prabhupada is there in his books,in his words but many books of Prabhupada is now changed and if i read them then ……what shouldi do
Get Prabhupada’s original books from http://www.KrishnaStore.com or read them online at http://www.PrabhupadaBooks.com
You have no excuses.
The acharya may say things according to time place and circumstance. If he was so much against his god-brothers why would he take Sannyasa initiation from Srila Bhakti-Prajnana Kesava Maharaj and write a beautiful letter of condolence on his passing. Yes there were some envious god-brothers that Srila Prabhupad wanted to keep his disciples from but we should be careful to understand Srila Prabhupad. Not only were some of his god-brothers not envious but were influential in encouraging him to take Sanyasa and preach all over the world.
Perhaps some of Prabhupada’s god brothers where not envious when there was nothing to be envious of. When Prabhupada was in India before he came to the West of course some gave him words of encouragement and Sridhar Maharaja for example stayed at Srila Prabhupada’s house in Bombay for more than a year so they were close friends for sure. And Prabhupada had some very sweet words to say for Kesava Maharaja on his disappearance day. But overall, after Prabhupada came to the West and became very successful, the world acharya, his godbrothers did become envious of him if they were not already envious. No one helped him, although he requested help from many of them and they criticized him in so many ways and even until today they use the degoratory term ‘swami maharaja’ to refer to Srila Prabhupada. So they are still envious of him and his movement and still trying to destroy his movement. They have been more-or-less successful now with ISKCON, but Prabhupada still lives on in his books and other recorded vani…
So overall even if there may have been some non-envious godbrothers they did not do anything to help Srila Prabhupada, they do not recognize him as the world acharya that he is, and of course they rejected the orders of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta and instead of forming a GBC to manage the Gaudiya Math on Bhaktsiddhanta’s disappearance they immediately appointed some bogus acharya and that acharaya was changed so many times and they were fighting in the courts over the properties of the Gaudiya Matha, as ISKCON is doing today, so instead of pushing on the dynamic preaching movement of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta they fought with each other over the guru’s property…
So the point is that the Gaudiya Matha and all it’s branches are useless. They are useless because they have rejected the orders of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, Prabhupada writes this in his purports to Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-Lila and uses the specific word ‘asara’–useless. So on this count they have disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession. They are like a disconnected branch of a tree. For some time it may look like the branch of a tree with green leaves and flowers but because it is disconnected from the tree everything will soon wither up and die. And they are useless because they are envious of Srila Prabhupada.
So the bottom line is we must, as Srila Prabhupada clearly instructs, avoid association with his godbrothers. That means not reading their books, not visiting their temples. Because as Prabhupada clearly states they can not help us become Krishna conscious but they are very qualified to destroy our advancement in Krishna consciousness.
So if you value your Krishna consciousness stay away from the Gauidya Matha and unfortunately it is very sad to say but ISKCON is now simply Gaudiya Matha all over again…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Well spoken; to disobey the order of the Spiritual Master is so tragic. We all have struggled with some episodes of Sweet Lord Krishna’s powerful, deluding material energy. But even sometime bodily, subtle body are smashed by powerful modes, karma, whatever. When wounded we must repair, take care by giving 108% determination to stay in the shelter of Srila Abhay Charanaravinda Bhaktivedanta Swami, Iskcon Founder Acharya, our beloved Prabhupada’s Lotus Feet. Then w/renewed, deeper knowing of the intimate honor it is to perform Bhakti in devotional service; we pray for guidance to clean Srila Prabhupada’s house! Srila Prabhupada made so many statements, that we all become guru, even as Madyam, so Srila Prabhupada states “after my departure then you become guru. Regular Guru that’s all. They are your disciples, my Grand disciples. Srila Prabhupada is no regular guru. We would faint to know Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual position. So empowered & forgiving to those contrite. My spiritual master told me “I will take you to Srila Prabhupada & Srila Prabhupada will take you to Krishna! Tathastu; by following instructions i was kept in service to Srila Prabhupada and told my spiritual master, that his instructions have brought me to Prabhpada which has revealed more than i can say; and by his training i’ve been protected more than either of us will ever know. Srila Prabhupada & sweet Lord Krishna speak quite a bit about a Vaishnava that falls, yet humble and begging forgiveness again performs seva sincerely, is saintly. Srila Prabhupada is exalted beyond expression of me as well as most. So those sad spirit-souls that ignore Prabhupada’s final order, NOT TO ASSOCIATE W/any of His godbrothers. We cannot relate as Srila Prabhupada did, nor come to speculative conclusions because MahaBhagavat as Srila Prabhupada has given expressed feelings upon them before leaving for Krishna Loka. Many are still blasphemous and slyly subversive due to envy. I pray that Prabhupada instruct us and Lord NaraHari make us able to fight for Iskcon as Srila Prabhupada’s mission; we were warned about internal and external entities that would try to ruin the Iskcon Mission, the only shelter of mercy & the path back home to Godhead freely offered. Crazy is tragic but evil intentions of haunted? Evil Demons must be defeated by the Srila Prabhupada vani shine and strong Deva Das/Dasis’ bhava in Raganuga bhakti beauty of executing orders and by spreading the unperverted love of Nimai Nitai. The second generation as well as all devotes should be encouraged to give class, lead kirtan so if all goes crazy; someone will continue the sweet formula that reawakens the spirit-soul lost in an ocean of sins,& gives a way out of Maya. Heart felt dundavots to the golden hearted lovers of Nitai Nimai
By all followers leading kirtan & class, the click of chosen few, too often atma-sambhavitas is dispelled, making nicer unity. om tat sat
Just on that point about the purity.
Recently I have spent some time with one GM sanyasi and attended some of their programs.Sayasi appeared very permissive,unclean and was using F words liberally.He liked to spend inordinate amount of time on gramya katha in all forms and that was the extent of the association that he was able to offer.
Now it is clear to me why Srila Prabhupada was adamant that there should be no more sanyas given to anybody.Most of them have failed to uphold the standards prescribed.
I was speaking openly about my loyalty to Srila Prabhupada during GM gatherings.I sensed some hostility in the air but externally everyone was quietly polite.Frankly,the mood is totally different there and no matter how hard I tried I felt that it is just not the right place for one who is loyal to Srila Prabhupada to hang around with GM.
Sure,some of them may be nice devotees,even very advanced,but the mood there is just not receptive of our Srila Prabhupada as he is,same as in Narayan Swami’s group.They all have some issues with things that Srila Prabhupada thought us.
So be it,each to their own.Why impose?
I think that for everyone who is at least little bit inteligent and has at least some faith in Prabhupada words it is very clear that he did not liked his Godbrothers and that they are not vaishnavas. Even mundane people can understand this. And you have even not published so many other discussions which Prabhupada had about his Godbrothers, describing big scandals like was poisoning one child and so on. He called them fourhtclass or thirdclass people and this means a lot of. I cannot understand how anyone who has sober mind can think about them after reading this as vaishnavas. But the influence of Maya is very strong. You are doing nice preaching and you will be rewarded for this.
Regarding the comment, SP did not like his Godbrotwhers, is incorrect, a pure devotee has no enemies, indeed he did not like their behaviour, such behaviours are conditioning which has nothing to do with the nature of the spirit soul, the intrinsic nature of the spirit soul is to Love and Serve, people behaviours varies according to their desires and type of Karma which is related to the bodily concept of life, so SP expressing his dislike for their behaviour does not say he dislike/hates his godbrotwhers, SP sees the spirit soul and not the body, however, some how, circumstantially the fallen spirit soul finds himself in the situation he’s in…………………………….
Jivadhara Dasa ACBSP
Please accept my obeisances!
All glories to Shrila Prabhupada!
I was also troubled by the disagreements between ISCKON and Gaudiya Math, but after reading Prabhupada’s words, I think he is right. When Prabhupada had no money and no help to preach Krishna Consciousness, his Godbrothers turned away from him. This is very sad. And later they became envious and showed their envy.
HOWEVER I do think that we don’t need to waste our energy on criticizing others and always thinking about who is right and who is wrong. We should respect everyone, but it is better for us to try and be in the association of good devotees in ISCKON. Because ISCKON is our home. Without ISCKON, none of us would know anything about Krishna. And Prabhupad is the father of ISCKON.
I would also like to add that i have recently listened to a lecture of one of Giriraj Maharaj (if i remember correctly) and he said that we can concur the heart of Lord Caitanya only by chanting the Hare Krishna mantra and NOT CRITICIZING anyone.
Srila Prabhupad could criticize sometimes, but he is much higher than us. His critisizm was always for the better. We are not on that platform. We should try to love Krishna and every living entity. That’s my opinion.
i am very appreciative of your respond. i also share the same mentality actually, the main thing is not just to highlight what wrong might be happening but also push for the spiritual upliftment. Srila Prabhupada gave us the guidelines now there should be no fuzz and just follow it, is it so difficult?? we give them respect and do our own stuffs like reading, chanting and dancing, whats the difficulty?
There are more serious things to be discussed and we better not fight among ourselves on this very simple issue. Vaishnava aparadha is the very 1st offence against the holy names and in Chaitanya Bhagvat chapter 2 verse186 Mahaprabhu says:
Sabara karibe gaurasundara adhara
Vina papi vaishnava nindaka duracara
Gauransundara wil deliver everyone except the sinful, ill behaved offenders of the Vaishnavas.
Rasika Sindhu Dasa
hare krishna Eugene prabhu,
you need not to be disappointed,you are on a right platform,bt you might nt have received the appropriate train.here the flatform is the krishna consciousness mission and the train is a bonafied guru.so you should search for right guru who can save you frm this kalyuga and provide you the BHAKTI of sri SRI RADHA KRISHNA.you should observe the things very carefully,as the love of sri Hari is very valuable and the association of pure devotees is very rare.
Interesting comments. This was the reason I left Christianity, because of all the division in it. And now I see the same is happening in the followers of Krishna. This is very sad and I will be looking for other avenues of spiritual growth as I can see that your institutions are all the same as Christianity. Divided, fragmented and quarreling amongst your own godbrothers and sisters. Shame on you.
Please dont be disappointed, The Sri Krishna’s followers not of as you have understood, the people on here are not followers of Sri Krishna. The real followers of Sri Krishna are not at all like these people.
Always remember, the Lord Sri Krishna is always with you.
As you have collected negative by SP towards sri gaudiya matha and his broghers, You must also bring out all the possitive instructions given by SP in regards to yogapitha, sri gaudiya matha, to sp accepts as his own siksha guru, his senior brothers and his other brothers. I hope you will do it if you are practicing to become a krishna conciousness person.
Recently I have been becoming devotee of Krishna and I have been growing strong day after day. I have a lot of respect and devotion for Prabhupada and Krishna Devotees. Some how when ever I read any messages wherein Prabhupara refers someone as ‘rascal’,’third/forth class people’,’sudras’ etc…I feel very uncomfortable because I always pictured prabhupada as a kind messenger of krishna and have been inspired by his preaching. I know Prabhupada is a great acharya but his use of certain words even in bahghavat geetha sometimes makes be uncomfortable. Secondly I came across some devotee who has bad impression about other religions which again makes me feel a little uneasy.Can you please give me some suggestion as in how I can get over this problem of mine.
Hare Krishna Prabhu
There are many, many rascals in this world. It is Kali-yuga and we can expect that more-or-less everyone is a rascal.
So it is better to say this straight out, and let the people know that this person is a rascal, rather than let him fool the innocent people.
In Kali-yuga most of the religious systems are not religious at all. They are simply cheating systems meant to exploit the followers for some material purpose.
It is very rare to find someone who is not a rascal and a fool. In Kali-yuga it is said “kalo sudra sambavaha” that in this Kali-yuga everyone is born a sudra.
So Srila Prabhupada is simply speaking the truth. There are so many fools and rascals in the disguise of religious saints and sadhus who are simply cheating the people. And as servants of Krishna it is our responsibility to expose this.
So do not be uncomfortable. It is better to know the truth than to be fooled by the rascals and cheaters and go to Hell with them.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
When Srila Prabhupada called someone a rascal, it was generally because the person was posing as guru, or big authority, and making claims against Krishna, His personhood, His supremacy, His Godhood and so on, all the demonic philosophies he came to smash. Also he called scientists and others rascals for propagating false theories such as ‘life comes from matter’ ‘God is dead’ and so on, as such persons mislead the innocent public and pose themselves as godlike, thereby taking people to hell.
Prabhupada calls rascals rascals. And we need to follow in his footsteps and call rascals rascals. The scientists are the biggest rascals because with their religion they have turned the whole world into a godless place…
Haribol to you all!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada….DANDAVATS….please accept my humble obeisances.
I once went there. At that time I was very unfit, sick at soul, mental and body. I made no difference between ISKCON or something else I thought “here is Krishna and there is also Krishna no matter what this institution is called”. I just needed help and Prabhupada writes that Krishna is the only one that really can help you so I also went to the Gaudiya Math. Before this I also visited an ISCKON temple…chantig and eating prasadam for a view days “Oh, here is everything so geat, why: because everyone just cares about Krishna all the time. Nothing else only Krishna. That’s it…this is the way” I thought.
So back home without ISKCON temple I started missing that and therefore I went to the Gaudiya Matha because I thought Krishna is Krishna and I didn’t know Prabhupada’s point of view about his Godbrothers and their Gaudiya Math Camp at that time. It should be an experience he sent me there I guess nowadays to share it with you all.
So immediately I felt the difference of purity. I was only talking about Prabhupada, ISKCON, his Books and the 16 rounds which I hardly try to chant everyday. They just said “ISKCON yes, yes….” no comment but soon I realized where I stepped into. Prabhupada’s picture at the wall wasn’t looking very nicely to me “What are you doing there, away immediatley”. He was very angry.
At prasadam time a “devotee” came to me talking about psychological things because I was really unhealthy at that time so I said “Yes but I came here because the maha-mantra destroys all the sickness, your problems. It is the only way in this age, chanting Hare Krishna”. Now
IMAGINE THIS, THE ANSWER WAS “YES THEY SAY SO, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE SO GREAT”.
I came there to hear about the thing that can help me, solve my problems and all I get as an answer is “They say so” like “maybe, it’s posssible”.
Hardly swallowing the “prasadam”, the food I knew here I’m wrong there is deffinitely a difference between Prabhupada’s stage and the others. I needed to experience that I know today.
I view months later I got told “If you want something real 16 rounds are wanted to be chanted”.
So things are getting better in my life….big Hug and see you all in Vaikuntha
Hari Bol Vaishnava Prabhus
All glories to Shrila Prabhupada.
NAMA OM VIHNU PADAYA KRISHNA PRESTHAYA BHUTALE
SHRIMATE BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMIN IT NAMINE
It always makes me unhappy to see devotees engaged in unnecessary critisicm. Shrila Prabhupada critisized his god brothers who spoke against him, but he also told us not to criticize.
This is 2010. Someone who was envious in 1975 may have had a change of heart. The test is whether they are helping to distribute Prabhupada’s books and are favorable.
When Shrila Prabhupada apologized to his god brothers before leaving this world, they also acknowledged that his criticism was necessary and did good.
So if there is even a spark of appreciation for Shrila Prabhupada and his books, we should fan that spark into a fire, if possible.
Shrila Prabhupada criticized his god brothers and told us to avoid them, but he also told us that we should not criticize them and to show respect. In the same way, one should be slow to criticize Prabhupada’s disciples, even if they have fallen into difficulty. Better to admire what they did right by becoming his disciples.
All this end fighting weakens our cause. Better to save our energy to save the conditioned souls.
Hare Krishna Madhavadasa Prabhu
Better to call a “spade a spade.” They are still envious of Srila Prabhupada. And we need to at least warn the people about this.
If you have read Srila Prabhuapda’s purports to Caitanya-caritamrta Adi-lila you will know that he declares that his Gaudiya Math godbrothers disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession by rejecting Srila Bhaktsiddhanta’s orders in regard to the management of the Gaudiya Math after his disappearance. Srila Bhaktsiddhanta could not see amoung his disciples anyone who was qualified to take the position of acharya, so he instructed them to form a govening body and manage the organization in that way. But they did not do this. They unauthorizedly appointed one bogus acarya after another and the Gaudiya Math disolved into many camps arguing with each other.
Prabhuapda uses a very strong word “asara,” it means useless. These men are disconnected from the disciplic succession. To try and get Krishna consciousness from them is as hopeless as trying to get electricity from a cable that is not plugged into the power source. Krishna consciousness is not available from these people.
So we will say this very clearly and loudly and they may be a little upset. But still the truth remains. They are disconnected form the source and can not deliver Krishna consciousness to anyone.
Many so-called “devotees” who do not want to surrender to Krishna themselves, who do not actually want Krishna consciousness, become disciples of these cheaters. And it goes on. The cheaters and the cheaters. This is simply the material world. It is not spiritual.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji 🙂
As you said in above reply to Madhvadasa das that “”Srila Bhaktsiddhanta could not see among his disciples anyone who was qualified to take the position of acharya, so he instructed them to form a govening body and manage the organization in that way. But they did not do this. They unauthorizedly appointed one bogus acarya after another and the Gaudiya Math disolved into many camps arguing with each other””
So my question is ,how Prabhupada Ji Became Diksa Guru ? Because Srila Bhaktsiddhanta never appointed any Acharya.
I know You are My Siksa Guru but Prabhupada ji is both diksa and siksa Guru.
But as u said it ,I want to know how he became Diska Guru ?
PLEASE REPLY ME SOON PLEASE 🙂
Hare Krishna !!
Hare Krishna Ravi
At their first meeting Srila Bhaktsiddhanta instructed Srila Prabhupada to go to the Western countries and preach Krishna consciousness in the English language. This was an open order. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta gave this order to all his disciples who had the ability to preach in English. So any of them could have done it. But the other disciples did not take this order of their spiritual master seriously. They did not do it. They did not believe that it was possible that the Westerners could become Vaisnavas… So they did not even try.
On the other hand Srila Prabhupada made this order of his spiritual master his life and soul and because of this he got the full blessings of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta and his preaching was magnificently successfully. Because he surrendered to the order of his spiritual master and made the order of his spiritual master his life and soul.
So the order to preach, the order to become guru, that is an open order. It is given by Lord Caitanya and repeated by Srila Bhaktsiddhanta and repeated by Srila Prabhupada. So any sincere disciple can surrender and accept this order. But we see it from the history that it is very rare to find anyone who actually really surrenders to their bona fide spiritual master. Almost everyone keeps some personal interest. Hardly anyone surrenders. It is the disciple who surrenders, who makes the order of his spiritual master his life and soul, it is that disciple who is blessed by the bona fide spiritual master and it is he who gets the power to preach and spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.
One can not preach without getting the power to preach. And one can not get the power to preach without surrendering to his bona fide spiritual master and making the orders of his spiritual master his life and soul.
So it is not that the spiritual master orders a particular disciple to preach and become diksa guru. He instructs all his disciples to preach and become diksa gurus. But this is a qualification that has to be achieved by the disciple. The guru is happy if any or all of his disciples become qualified diksa gurus. Not that he wants just one particular disciple to become a diksa guru. He wants all his disciples to become bona fide diksa gurus and then to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world.
But of course the reality is sa mahatma sudlabha, “Such a great soul is very rare”.
So the order is open. It is up the disciple to accept the order. Srila Bhaktsiddhanta did not specifically order Srila Prabhupada to become diksa guru. He never mentioned ‘diksa guru’, his order was “Preach Krishna consciousness in the West and if you get money print books.” Srila Prabhupada’s association with Srila Bhaktsiddhanta was very small. He met Srila Bhaktsiddanta not more than five times and wrote him one letter and got one letter back from him. That is all. But from their first meeting Srila Prabhupada surrendered to Srila Bhaktsiddhanta and made his order, to preach Krishna consciousness in the West, his life and soul. That was Prabhupada’s real initiation, although he was not formally initiated until ten years later.
So the point is the order to preach is an open order. The spiritual master wants all his disciples to preach. And if you preach obviously you have to make disciples. Because the only way you can preach is there has to be a guru-disciple relationship. That is the only way the transcendental knowledge can be transmitted. From the bona fide spiritual master to the bona fide disciple in the bona fide disciplic succession.
So Prabhupada became a diksa guru by accepting the open order that Srila Bhaktsiddhanta had given to all his intelligent disciples who had the ability to preach in English. It is just that Prabhupada was the one and only one who accepted this order as his life and soul and who was therefore the recipient of the unlimited mercy of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta and Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Only being a reader of Prabupada’s books for a few months, I have developed a great respect for him. I have a serious concern however wrt a very cult/sect like attitude in ISKCON. Maybe in Prabhupada’s time the devotees were not serious, but who says people cannot change. Where is the love and forgiveness that is supposed to be preached. Instead of giving others the cold shoulder, at least listen to them and give them a chance. Don’t just write people off because of Prabupada’s opinion of them at THAT time. People can and DO repent. How do you know they have not?
Hare Krishna Eugene
You need to understand Krishna consciousness more deeply to understand the principles at work here. It is not a question of these Gaudiya Matha people repenting or changing. The Gaudiya Math disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession when they rejected the orders of Srila Bhaktsiddhanta after he left his body. They cut themselves off from Krishna. It is like pulling the plug out of the power outlet. If the plug is not connected then the cable can not deliver any electricity.
So the Gaudiya Matha, and now ISKCON also unfortunately, is like this. Disconnected and unable to deliver any electricity. They can just make a show…
However, if we really want to make spiritual advancement, then we need to connect with someone who is connected with the source of the power…
So it is not about them repenting or changing. They are disconnected. They can not deliver the love of Krishna which is the whole point of Krishna consciousness. So they are, as Srila Prabhuapda clearly declares in his purports to the Adi Lila of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, ‘asara,’ useless. They can not help anyone come to Krishna because they are disconnected from Krishna themselves.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Hare Krishna dear Pratyatosa Dasa!
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda!
Could you provide me with reference to original letter of your quote please: Srila Prabhupada’s Letter to Visvakarma, 11/9/75?
I was not able to find such letter on Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International website: http://www.prabhupada1975.com where all Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada letters are published.
Please seach for it at http://www.Prabhuapda.com
Hare krsna prabhu,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and His GLorious ISKCON
i personally thank you for the above article. Indeed to cut short i wish to just add that we need not be sentimental and start to compromise.ISKCON is an identity and compromise will fragment our INSTITUTION.
We should respect everyone but association should always be selective.
Rescently i was serving HH Bhakti Narasimha Swami and once while we were in His room Maharaj looked at me and said
I dont want you to become a nice devotee!!!
“Am sorry Maharaj” i said
“i dont want you to be a nice devotee, i want you to be a serious devotee. Beeing nice means you are nice for maya too but being serious means you are fixed and determined” said Maharaj
So i wish to end by just saying that a good Public Relation is important but it take only a fraction of a second to get diverted. Prabhupada has already given us everything so why waste time looking around???Once HH Bhakti Tirtha Swami Maharaj in a personal darshan told us that we should not be like a prostitute rather learn to be like a chaste wife always loyal in all circumstance.
Rasika Sindhu Dasa
Hare Krishna Rasika Sindhu Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda!
Yes. It is a very good instruction, “Be a serious devotee.” And being a serious devotee actually means not accepting so many bogus sentimental ideas that various “devotees” put forward as “devotional service.” There is so much bogus nonsense out there coming from the lips of so-called devotees, and if you speak against it they will say, “Prabhu, you are an offender…” But it is the duty of sincere followers of Srila Prabhupada to speak out against this nonsense going on in the name of devotional service. The alternative is to be a “nice devotee” and to glorify everyone, no matter what nonsense they speak. Of course people may like us for that. But we will all go to Hell together and that will not be very nice. Better to stand up for the truth and be disliked by the sentimentalists and go back home back to Godhead!
Hare Krishna to all,
Jaya Sri Krishna.
first of all i am nither from iskcon camp nor form gaudiya math camp but i am from the Vaisnava camp where devotees are broad minded and practice vaisnava culture simply, sincerely, friendly way and are helpful & respectful to others.
When you fight with your brothers/sisters should your children also kick them with their foot? Do you fight with them with hate or love? We are practicing to be come vaisnava so we should be gentle men and see things broadly, should not be living in a little box. A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is a vaisnava and still living here with every one, so he never hates any one.
while in search i have found the the following link, a book by HH Giriraj Swami, while i was reading i have noticed some of HH’s which i have heard from other sources.
Pratyatosa Prabhu quoted Prabhupada said not to bring other books but today full of other books in most ISKCON temples. Iskcon people borrow or buy books from others and translate into english and put their own copy right on those. The books given by Prabhupada are more then enough for iskcon camp.
Please be broad minded, friendly, kind and respectful to others to be come vaisnava, and to purly chant the holy names of Lord Sri Krishna. Thank you.
Dearest Vaishnavadas Prabhu,
what you just said worth gold!
Yes you are very right and i agree with you that we should never hate anyone (forget the vaishnavas)
Srila Prabhupada is compassion personified and we as his followers we should imbibe this quality also along with others. Stil my point is that YES we have to respect all the Vaishnavas for the worse Vaishnava is much much better than the BEST non-devotee! Nevertherless Prabhu, we are having our own specific instructions and not following automatically becomes offence to to holy names No. 3. which is not following the instructions of the spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada has already given everything but yet its true that someare indeed getting books and other things from elsewhere which is also related to the 3rd offence. The fact that our topic of discussion is more specific here so i wont sidepark there hence i would just conclude by saying that yes we HAVE to respect them all but we should not associate as this is the instruction of Srila Prabhupada.