Homosexual Marriages in ISKCON?
The contention of HH Hridayananda Goswami Maharaja is that homosexual devotees be allowed to stay together with a partner of their choice, as a heterosexual couple would stay together in the grhasta asrama.
The contention of HH Hridayananda Goswami Maharaja is that homosexual devotees be allowed to stay together with a partner of their choice, as a heterosexual couple would stay together in the grhasta asrama. His statement in a letter to Chakra and Dipika is this: “I am not convinced that marriage is the best means in all cases, but some serious, formal and public recognition and appreciation of gay monogamy is, in my view, in the best interest of ISKCON and its members.”
Although Maharaja says that he is not convinced that marriage is the best means in all cases, the suggestion here is that homosexual marriages should be accepted in some cases and recognition of monogamous relationships should be given in all other cases. Allowing homosexual marriages in some cases is a misnomer because all homosexual devotees will want this privilege, so this actually means allowing homosexual marriages within ISKCON in all cases as part of the grhasta asrama.
In one letter, Maharajah points out that his statements could lend themselves to interpretation, and he says that we should read carefully. Actually, his statements do not need interpretation. They are clear in their meaning, and the devotees that read them will understand them accordingly. Now even heterosexual grhastas following sincerely will feel encouraged to let their desires run wild, feeling less guilty when breaking this particular regulative principle: “no sex except for the procreation of children.”
They will feel that since a senior leader in ISKCON made certain favorable statements regarding this matter, it is not such a big thing. This happens on a very subtle platform. Leaders need to be very careful what they say, especially in public.
He further suggests that this lifestyle should be formally accepted and accommodated in ISKCON even after initiation, where the disciple takes a vow to his spiritual master to follow the regulative principles strictly. He says that since many, many initiated heterosexual devotees in the grhasta asrama take the “no illicit sex” rule to mean “no sex outside of marriage” instead of “no sex except for the procreation of children,” the homosexual devotees should also have this privilege.
Maharaja’s conclusion is that we should try to understand through guru, sadhu and sastra, and he questions that since sastra does not give any specific instruction on how to deal with homosexuality, we should reason our way to a conclusion on understanding how ISKCON should deal with this. He goes ahead and reasons how ISKCON should deal with this in his lengthy presentation and other letters that were published on Chakra and Dipika.
However, although the sastras give no clear understanding on how we should deal with this, Maharaja fails to enter into the mood of understanding through guru and sadhu—that is, to understand the mood of Prabhupada and the acaryas.
In all reference and discussions that Srila Prabhupada had on homosexuality, he never once suggested allowing same-sex relationships or marriages and especially after initiation. Maharaja has quoted Prabhupada on the first part of this sentence to his purport of 3:20:26, “It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma.
” However, this is incomplete. The second part of Prabhupada’s sentence is: “the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demonic and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.”
So since Prabhupada mentions that this is demonic, should we not be careful in how we accept this into our practice? It is clearly different from heterosexual relationships. If we try to understand through our philosophy and common sense, we will find that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is abnormal. Brahma, the most intelligent person in this universe, created the different species of life under the direction of Krsna. There is a man and there is a woman. Now according to the laws of material nature, man-to-woman sex is normal because the male produces the sperm and the female produces the egg and this combination bears a child. This understanding is simple for the simple, and it gets complicated for the complicated.
One of our regulative principles, “no sex except for the procreation of children,” needs no interpretation. A child cannot be procreated between unions of same-sex partners. Some time ago in Vrndavana, a senior grhasta devotee gave a seminar. He mentioned how once when he met Srila Prabhupada, he was asked how many children he had. Immediately upon hearing that he had no children because his wife and he did not want children, Prabhupada told him that “grhasta” meant children and he should have children. From this statement, I could understand Prabhupada’s mood: that we should not take up grhasta just to satisfy the genitals but we should give Krsna and Prabhupada something in return, a child who will some day serve this mission.
In this so-called normal society, there is at least some goodness, and leaders of most countries in the world today are against gay marriages. Indeed, the leader of the most influential country in the world, George W. Bush of the United States, won re-election recently, and one of his promises if re-elected was to work towards getting legislation passed that will make gay marriages illegal. So I can safely conclude that the majority of this world’s population are against legalizing gay marriages.
If world leaders who are not even in the mode of goodness and some leaders of other religious organizations who may have some goodness understand that this is abnormal and are resisting the homosexual activists’ attempts to have their marriages legalized, where does that leave us? This Krsna consciousness movement is seeking the highest purity. Our goal is to go beyond the mode of goodness and become transcendental.
Many times, Prabhupada said that we are the true Christians because we follow the ten commandments properly. I have seen many worshipers of other faiths lighting up cigarettes as soon as they come out of their places of worship. No one raises an eyebrow to these transgressions, but if a Krsna consciousness devotee in devotional clothing walks around smoking, people will criticize him or her. The local newspaper may even run a headline saying “Krsna devotee lights up his life.” Why is this? People know the level of purity we aspire for, and they expect us to show that purity. We should lead the way.
So then if leaders of materialistic governments and other organizations that represent the majority are against gay marriages, what should be the situation of our leaders? We should lead the way in purity. Gay devotees should just go about their chosen lifestyle without causing a disturbance but at the same time continue their devotional practice. Krsna is in their hearts, and He knows their sincerity. It is not necessary to rewrite the rules, making all sorts of excuses just to enhance material enjoyment. Leave that to the sinful. Our spiritual leaders should be more responsible. Publicly, they should speak with one voice; otherwise, there will be confusion in our society.
In the Nectar of Devotion, Srila Rupa Goswami explains briefly about principles and details, and Srila Prabhupada gives this example: “A basic principle is that one has to accept a spiritual master. Exactly how one follows the instructions of his spiritual master is considered a detail. If one is following the instruction of his spiritual master and that instruction is different from the instructions of another spiritual master, this is called detailed information. But the basic principle of acceptance of a spiritual master is good everywhere, although the details may be different.”
Principles always remain the same; changing them is a deviation although details may change according to time, place, and circumstance. Even to adjust details, one needs to be qualified in his understanding of the spiritual science of bhakti according to guru, sadhu, and sastra. Prabhupada, being Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s senapati bhakta, is empowered to make changes, and the four regulative principles given by him are especially for this age and should be added to the sixty four principles given by Srila Rupa Goswami.
One of the principles given by Srila Prabhupada is “no sex except for the procreation of children” This principle cannot be changed, and speaking about any other reality is a deviation.
In fact, to follow strictly the four basic regulative principles given by Srila Prabhupada will bring one to the platform of appreciating how the other sixty-four are directly connected to worshiping Krsna personally, and this will qualify one to follow with devotion. In other words, the four regulative principles given by Srila Prabhupada are as important as the sixty-four given by Srila Rupa Goswami.
Devotees cannot have tailor-made rules to suit their desires. Rather, under the guidance of expert siksa or diksa gurus, they should sincerely see how to fit into these rules. There should be no compromise, but we should be compassionate. Lord Caitanya came to deliver the Jagais and Madhais, and Srila Rupa Goswami says that it is the birthright of everyone to accept devotional service and to take up Krsna consciousness, but we cannot sacrifice our standard of purity.
No one is more fallen than Jagai and Madhai, and being homosexual or heterosexual is no big sin compared to what they got up to. It does not matter if someone tries to satisfy material desires while following some type of devotional practice. One is still getting purification. Just try to be sincere. Even to say, “Oh Krsna,” just once in a day is purifying in itself. However, the rules and regulations are most important, and if one wants to sincerely make advancement, there should be no compromise.
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You said: “Allowing homosexual marriages in some cases is a misnomer because all homosexual devotees will want this privilege”. There are some devotees who were born gay but don’t want to be. They want to be purified and go back to Godhead by following the regulative principles and chanting Hare Krishna. They are not homosexual devotees but Krishna devotees.
Hare Krishna Prabhu
We all come into this world with a material body and so many designations and attachments and aversions, simply based on the material body. Krishna consciousness is about realizing we are not these material bodies, but spirit souls. And the only way to do that is to control our senses. And that means, for a devotee, no sex life except in marriage and then only for having children.
So there is no sex for anyone in Krishna consciousness, except for producing Krishna conscious children.
So anyone who is not prepared to give up these temporary bodily designations and surrender to the process of saddhana-bhakti, Krishna consciousness, which includes chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly following the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication], he is not able to practice Krishna consciousness.
So if one is attached to being homosexual, that is only a temporary bodily designation, and that temporary bodily designation has to be given up if he wants to become Krishna conscious.
So that is the point. Krishna consciousness is about reestablishing our eternal original loving relationship with Krishna. And to do that we have to give up all these temporary bodily designations. So if someone does not want to give up his temporary bodily designations, that will hold him back in spiritual life, he will not be able to become Krishna conscious.
We have to realize, at lest in theory, that we are not these material bodies, but the spirt souls within these bodies, and realize that we are eternal servants of Krishna and engage in the service of Krishna and reestablish our original loving relationship with Krishna.
So anyone who does not understand these basic points and is trying to say he is a “gay” Hare Krishna and wants to marry another gay Hare. Krishna. There is no such thing. if one is in the bodily concept of life he is not a devotee, so this homosexual, that is the designation of one completely in the bodily concept of life. If he wants to become Krishna conscious he has to give this designation up.
Hetrosexual person also, he has to give up the idea of sex for the sake of pleasure. Practically he has to give up sex also because he can only have sex to have Krishna conscious children.
Sex is the opposite of Krishna consciousness, of course sex also it can be used in the service of Krishna in marriage to conceive good children who can be raised as great devotees of Krishna. Then sex is great service to Krishna. But it is not to be used otherwise by devotees at all.
So apart from this small exception there is no sex in Krishna conscious for anyone and any of us having sex then we have to know that we are not in Krishna consciousness, we are still firmly rooted in the material concept of life.
So all this talk is nonsense. There are no homosexual Hare Krishna’s. It is not possible. Homosexual means firmly rooted in the bodily concept of life and a prerequisite for becoming Krishna conscious is to become free from the bodily concept of life. Very simple point…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I agree with these statements. A homosexual bond erases even the possibility of following the essential regulative principle of sex only for the purpose of God-conscious children. Therefore this bond serves to plunge the conditioned soul even deeper into illusion, which is the exact opposite of Krishna consciousness. The redeeming factor is but the holy names, and especially the holy names of Sri Caitanya and Sri Nityananda who dispense Their mercy freely in this age of Kali.
I’m a Roman Catholic and totally agree with what Madhudvisa says about Sodomites.
I also follow what The Holy Bible says about Sodomites! I follow what Vatican I says about Sodomites, not Vatican II.
I follow The SSPX teaching of What It Means To Be Truly Catholic.
That in saying, I Can’t help but love The Hindu God Narangsimba and I have a great love for All Cats; whether they are Great Cats or Small. I also love The Ancient Egyptian Goddess Bast who is a Black Cat.
Yes. Spiritual knowledge is eternal. It does not change, it can not be revised. That makes the current Catholic Pope unauthorized. Because he is changing so many things, without any authorization to change them. We have a principle, ‘guru, sadhu and sastra’. It means the teachings of the guru must correspond with what has been taught previously by the authorized saints and what is written in the authorized scriptures. Guru [or pope] can not introduce anything that is contrary to what has been taught previously by the authorized saints and what is written in the authorized scriptures.
Hi, i am agree with you but there is something i don’t end to agree, if you are a man, gay man, And you give up sex, but you are in Love with another man, you want to stay together because you Love eachother, you care for eachother other, you worry about each other, you need that soul with you, there is Love, maybe is not Pure Love of Krishna, but it is Love giving up Sex, so why can’t we be together, why can’t we serve Krishna together, if we don’t want sex, can we live together? Men And woman can live together, we can’t lie to ourselves if we Love each other, And we can understand no sex, but we care about each other in the same way a man care about a woman And opposite, so we can be together right? And another thing, is it possible gay marriage if we adopt a child?
Krishna consciousness means giving up the bodily concept of life. So Krishna consciousness means being in love with Krishna. So there is no question of being gay and being Krishna conscious. These things are not possible together. Being gay means we are completely in the bodily concept of life. And being Krishna consciousness means not being in the bodily concept of life.
So the first step is to understand, at least theoretically, that we are not this material body. And if we understand this, that our body is a machine, like a motor car, then we can understand that the so-called pleasures of the body are not my pleasures, I am the spirit soul, present within the machine of the material body.
So your idea of being ‘gay’ is completely dependent on your material body and the material body of the person you are in ‘love’ with. Krishna consciousness means giving up all these bodily conceptions.
So unless we are prepared to give up the bodily conceptions and bodily identifications we can not become Krishna conscious. The two things are mutually exclusive. We can not be gay and Krishna conscious. Because gay means we are totally identifying with the body and Krishna conscious means understanding we are not the body, but the spirit soul within the body, and that we are eternally in a loving relationship with Krishna.
As far as marriage, it is between a man and woman, and it is for having children, who can be brought up as nice devotees of Krishna. So this is service to Krishna. Getting married, having children and bringing them up as nice devotees. Marriage is also not for sex.
Of course men can live together and serve Krishna. That is called brahmacary ashram. But those men are not in love with each other. They are in love with Krishna and they work together in a friendly loving spirit also, but they are cooperating together for serving Krishna.
Love is only for Krishna. What we imagine as love in the material world is just a perverted reflection of the original, real loving relationships we have with Krishna. So Krishna consciousness means realizing this, that we are not the material body, we are spirit souls, and that we are all eternally servants of Krishna and that we all have our individual loving relationships with Krishna. So we can live together certainly and have friendly loving relationships with each other, working together with the common goal of pleasing Krishna, serving Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I was recently persuaded into visiting an ISKCON temple as I was told that its God is ever merciful… But the more I read the less impressed I am. Kind of sounds just like any other religious woo-woo.
Yes. Unfortunately ISKCON has become just like any other religion. But Krishna consciousness is not like that. And Srila Prabhupada is not like that. You will find out about what Krishna consciousness really is by reading Srila Prabhupada’s boosk and by putting into practice the things Srila Prabhupada teaches you as you read the books, not by visiting ISKCON temples…
Too true! Sodomites are demonic, dirty; and totally sinful!!
married life is very clever
Get married
Have children
Provide for your family
If you dont become God conscience after That wellllllll
Good luck
Hare Krishna to all!! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!! I am a little bit of confused.. I want to ask if a devotee is is gay and is in love (pure love: love without lust) with another gay devotee and they both are serving Krishna. Do is this thing wrong?
Yes. This is wrong. Because gay means sex. Gay means one person who is sexually interested in another person of the same sex.
Your whole idea, whole consciousness, is wrong. There is no such thing as a ‘gay devotee’. Gay means that is someone in maya who is on the bodily concept of life. A devotee is not in maya and not in the bodily concept of life. Becoming a devotee means giving up the bodily concept of life. It means understanding that we are not this material body but we are the spirit soul within the body. And it means understanding that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and that we are all servants of Krishna. That we all have a loving relationship with Krishna.
So you are in maya and the ‘gay’ so-called devotee is in maya. We have to be in love with Krishna and our material relationships in the world have to be centered around serving Krishna. So a male devotee can marry a female devotee and have sex according to the regulative principles to bring Krishna conscious children into the world. This is service. And creating a spiritual family atmosphere for raising the children in Krishna consciousness, this is devotional service. This is grhastha ashram.
But you can not transfer this to a relationship between two men. There is no problem, two men can be friends and have a relationship based on serving Krishna. They may be part of a sankirtan party and go out and distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books together for example. They are friends, they have a loving relationship, but the purpose of their relationship is to encourage each other to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books more and more. They are both developing their loving relationship with Krishna.
There is no such thing as pure love in the material world. Pure love is only possible with Krishna. You can not have pure love with some other man. This is all nonsense. Maya.
We need to read Srila Prabhupada’s books, chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly follow the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication] and as we make advancement in Krishna consciousness our love for Krishna will grow and and all these crazy material ideas will not attract us any more.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
What you’re describing as love is actually lust there is no need to fall in love with anyone else, if you understand krishna even at a miniscule level you’ll forget about “loving” anything else.
ISKCON leaders should not blindly do as they like.
Jai Shri Krishna!
Clearly the modern Prabhujis are corrupting the minds of the people because they are not in the level to become spiritual masters.
Marriages are duties performed by a pious male and a pious female for the only reason that birth of a pious child is needed to support Mother Earth and religion.
In the Bhagavad Geeta, Lork Krishna instructs men of knowledge to act “Righteously” only for this reason that other men of poor knowledge and understanding will look upon such men of knowledge as superiors and follow their path and action. So how can modern Prabhujis act in this way?
Even in the Garuda Purana it is written that men who do inhumane acts will shrink down to hell. And in this case it will be the modern Prabhujis taking them straight to hell.
Homosexuality is an offense under religion and God. Homosexuals should be treated with criticism and Spiritual leaders should try to bring them in purity.
I wish our Sri Prabhupada Gurudeva was here to correct these today’s spiritual leaders.
Jai Shri Krishna.
In the Bhagavad Geeta, Krishna instructs the wise to be examples to the foolish.
“However superiors act, others follow”.
Now if pure religious Institution such as ISKCON allow homosexual couples, what path will those who are inclining to homo-sex will learn from us?
In the Garuda Purana also it is stated that those who do inhuman activities surely shrink down to hell. And in this case it’ll be the Prabhujis who will be leading them to hell if they so foolishly allow such couples to live and worship together. It’ll be like mocking religion and purity because after all, religion means purity of mind. How can one who doesn’t respect and follow the Vedas become a devotee?
I wish our Prabhupada Gurudev Ji was here to correct these Prabhujis.
This philosophy is a dog philosophy. This Hridaya “Swami” likes the dog philosophy. An homosex devotee, what is this nonsense? These people who speak like that should be avoided, they are demoniac people, they will go to hell.
John B, Dogs are more well mannered than yourself and your way of thinking. Being gay and homosexual means I’m a demon and doing to hell? Well kind sir you are not the judge of that! Only God knows our hearts and intentions. Not people who are like yourself. With your lack of compassion towards other people John, you yourself are already living in your own hell.
Yes. Being gay and homosexual is demonic. There is no question about that. In this demonic world practically everyone is demonic. The whole background of this world is demonic. You have to understand that there are only two things we can do, we can serve Krishna or we can serve maya. So serving Krishna is divine and serving maya is demonic.
The only thing that is not demonic is service to Krishna. There is no meaning to homosexuality except it describes people who want to have sex with the same sex. And sex with the same sex does not produce children. The purpose of sex is to have children. And that sex, to have children within marriage, Krishna says “I am.” So that sort of sex, to have children in marriage, is good. Any other sex is demonic.
So it is not just homosexual sex that is demonic. Any sex that is not meant for having children in marriage is demonic.
So such demonic sex has to be given up if one actually wants to advance in spiritual life.
So, if we want to become Krishna conscious, then we have to give up these false bodily designations like ‘homosexual’.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna. why brahmacharies get marriage just imagin if its for only for children no one will marry ,as they are unable to control their urge for sex they go for marriage , but if it is only for children will they marry they say its better to remain bramhachari , but any thing artificial control won’t works it has to come from with in because I have seen dome devotees especially gays unable to control the sex desire they have become victims to HIV disease so now my question is is it not good to be monogamous than to be polygamous and get this HIV plz forgive me if I offended any one just wanted to know their opinion….
Hare Krishna Kirru
The point is if we want to make spiritual advancement we have to become free from the bodily concept of life. We can not make spiritual advancement and continue having illicit sex at the same time. So we have to give up illicit sex. Otherwise we can not advance in Krishna consciousness. Yes. Of course some devotees will have problems. We all have problems from time to time I expect. But because some devotees have problems that does not change the process. The process is we have to give up illicit sex. So we have to give it up.
If we live in a permanent ‘monogamous’ gay relationship the only purpose of that relationship is to have illicit sex. It has no other purpose. Celibate men can live together and be friends and not have any sexual relationship. The only reason one will identify himself as ‘gay’ is to have illicit sex. The ‘gay’ label means ‘I want illicit sex’. That is all.
So living in a permanent relationship for the purpose of having illicit sex. It does not matter if it is with a man or a woman, if the purpose is to have illicit sex, then it will be impossible for those people to make any advancement in spiritual life. Because that is not their interest. Their interest is in having illicit sex.
So to become Krishna conscious we have to change our interest from illicit sex to Krisha. And that can be done by following the process of Krishna consciousness as Srila Prabhupada is teaching it to us in his books.
Not everyone who is dressing himself up like a devotee is actually a devotee. If his interest is illicit sex he is not a devotee, if his interest is Krishna he is a devotee. It depends on the consciousness not the dress.
So it is not possible to be in a relationship which has its sole purpose to facilitate illicit sex and at the same time advance in spiritual life. We have to reestablish our original relationship with Krishna and develop that. We have to transform our interest from illicit sex to Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I know this is unrelated to the article above but what you said about anti contraceptive strikes a chord.
What would you have to say about devotees who are married (heterosexual) and who lives in a really low economic condition but are not allowed contraceptives. I have seen a very real example of devotees who can barely afford to feed themselves but because of the expectations to raise krishna conscious children and the anti contraceptive rule they are unable to feed their family and have really poor condition. All in the name of krishna and following shrila prabhupad’s rules.
Would your argument be that it is simply their karma? Or that they should wait and be celibate until better financial situation arises (which is not realistic considering they were poor before having children)?
There needs to be free conversation going on about these topics because it is a very serious topic and nobody seems to acknowledge or talk about it at all.
Hare Krishna Radhika
People need to learn the Krishna culture and only have sex for the purpose of procreating nice Krishna conscious children. That will solve all problems.
Super.. Thanks so much,l like what you write.. I have 2 friends gays- they are very good friends with me…But naw l can more explained for them about life gay with gay in Krishna conseusines..
Haribol..
Hare Krishna..
Hare Rama..??
Hare Krishna,
What a shame that ISKON is turning away people who want to be involved with this “supposed be” loving religion of loving Krishna. My partner and I have been searching for a religion and we both were immediately drawn to Krishna. Now who are YOU to judge us if we love each other (and happen to be of the same sex) and Krishna. Your job is to love and support each and everyone who loves and worships Krishna, not turn them away or call us demons because we are of the same sex. May Krishna have mercy on your negative thinking and turning people away from him.
Hare Krishna Dean
We are not saying anything different to gay people and hetrosexual people.
If you and your partner actually want to advance spiritually and if you want to reestablish the loving relationship that both of you have within your hearts with Krishna then you have to put your physical sexual relationship with each other behind you.
This same challenge is there for straight couples. If a straight couple wants to come to Krishna consciousness they have to restrict their sex life to only having sex for conceiving children and then even for having children only having sex once a month.
The reality is that sex and spiritual advancement do not go together. They work against each other. So we can not have it both ways. If we want to advance spiritually we have to restrain our sex life.
It is a chemical thing to a certain extent. For men the semen that is produced can be either wasted or kept within the body. And if it is kept within the body it will be raised up to the brain and will strengthen a mans determination and strength both materially and spiritually.
One actually becomes stronger and more intelligent by not loosing semen.
But there is no bar in any way from a couple, a male and a female, a male and a male, or a female and a female, from living together and having a relationship with each other and together striving to reestablish their loving relationship with Krishna.
So there is no problem at all for you and your partner to become Krishna conscious. And I do not think you will find that Hare Krishna devotees anywhere will discriminate against you or treat you in any way differently from the way they would relate with a straight couple or anyone else. It does not matter. Gay or straight or whatever. We all have the same problem. And the problem we are all faced with is an addiction to the materialistic bodily concept of life. I am thinking: “I am a man and that is a woman and I want to enjoy with that woman and I will be happy.” Or I am thinking: “I am a man and I like that man and want to enjoy with that man.” It is the same thing. It is sex desire. It is manifest differently for different people. But it is the same thing.
To become Krishna conscious we have to control this sex desire. This sex desire will make spiritual advancement impossible for us unless we can control it.
So it does not matter, gay or straight, if you want to become Krishna conscious then you have to be prepared to follow the four regulative principles. Which means no illicit sex, which means sex is only permitted for having children in marriage. The other principles are no intoxication, no gambling and no meat eating.
Krishna consciousness is not possible unless you are prepared to surrender to these principles. But this is noting to do with gay or straight. Everyone who wants to become Krishna conscious has to give up illicit sex.
Of course in the beginning it may not be possible. And we may manage for some time and may fall down again. But we have to accept that principle that illicit sex will force us onto the bodily concept of life, and being on the bodily concept of life will destroy our Krishna consciousness. Krishna consciousness is not on the bodily concept of life.
So anyhow I have tried to explain this and you and your partner should not feel that Krishna consciousness is in any way at all against gay people. But Krishna consciousness is actually transcendental to all these material bodily concepts of life. Once you become actually Krishna conscious you will realize that you are not your material body, that you are the spirit soul who is within your material body. And you will realize that all these ideas of being male or female, black or white, gay or straight, etc, actually have nothing to do with YOU. They are only temporary designations of the material body that YOU happen to be in at the present moment.
But to come to this realization that you are not the material body you [and your partner] have to give up illicit sex, chant Hare Krishna and follow the other regulative principles and read Srila Prabhupada’s books. If you are prepared to undergo this experiment it will take you to a place which is so much better than the place you are currently in that you will be so, so happy…
So give Krishna consciousness a try.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
are you joking me with that last post . anonymous you a rude hateful man
Hare Krishna! Prabhu/Mataji,
I would like to make a strictly confidential and anonymous complaint based on the incident which happened to me personally on 30th, April, 2010 at your ISKCON Temple, Coimbatore. I was there from 1800hrs until closing time of the darshan, and befriended one Prabhu Vanagopal Das, aged 28 according to what he said, and he was manning the bookstore inside the temple premises near the sanctum sanctorum. I was in a confusion, and was talking to him for hours about how to overcome the temptations like smoking/drinking/meat after wearing Tulsi Mala. Since, I myself was doing all those things like smoking/drinking/meat/masturbation/illicit sex before wearing Tulsi Mala. He did give me advice, and counselling spiritually based on ISKCON vaishnava principles. He also did gave me a Chanting Mala for which I paid Rs.100/- and the balance I asked him to donate to the temple itself, for which he told me he had no change, and since the darshan was closed he would take the money himself and put the balance the other (next following) day, to which I had no objections and I said Ok.
Later, he asked me to give him a lift in my car to drop him off at Thadagam Road junction, which interlinks the road to Vadavalli from where he will take the bus to go to his residence. I agreed since its raining and on the way to my home. During the trip in the car, Prabhu Vanagopal Das was telling to me he have had Gay sexual intercourse last month with the Tulsi Mala and another time when he was sleeping when other guys did something sexually to him, and he still have the temptations, and he said even at this moment he feels the same, and the same to me as well, and he claimed to be initiated and also wearing a Tulsi Mala sticked to his throat. I clearly told him that, am not a gay, and am straight. He didnt do anything unsual, considering gay laws have become legal in India. He didnt advance on me either. He wanted a kiss from me it seems before alighting from the car, for which I declined, and he caressed my hair above my forehead and also told me that I am handsome looking. I am 26, just 2 years younger to him.
I wonder, how people like him are even allowed to enter the Temple? What impression does this create to fellow ISKCON believers and devotees? I would like to keep this complaint 100% anonymous and strictly confidential about not revealing my identity in public, nor do I want to make a legal complaint with the Police authorities.
I hope the concerned Prabhuji’s or Mataji’s in ISKCON Coimbatore Temple will look into this matter very seriously and ban the above-mentioned person from entering the Temple in the near future and also take necessary legal action if necessary.
He gave me his Cellphone No. which is 9940903942
Please look that justice is served, if not by legal (Police Authorities & Local Laws) but by temple administration atleast. Once again I would like to remind that let this be a one – off communication from my side and please treat this communication strictly confidential and anonymous. A kind reply is highly anticipated about the outcome. (end result taken).
Thanking You!
Haribol!
the purpose of marriage is to beget children.So the concept of same-sex does not arise.I think sex-obsession has led the world to these wide-array things.looking into this we must avoid passionate things.doing tapsaya is only remedial measure mankind have.same-sex was existing and understanding it is important for normal population which is more than 95% of total population.avoid sex be human.
dont ruin your life with passionate things.gays exist it doesnot mean we have to turn like them.normal people don’t discourage them they are humans and one of us.its our moral duty to leave sex first and then tell others the harmful effects of sex.sex is itself an illusiory word today.tapasya is the right thing.hare krishna.
who cares what george bush thinks?guess what he and the religious right crumbled this country all on the basis of rediculous religious superstition.youll admit he dosent like gay marriage but you fail to mention he sure liked bloodshed.and everyone knows the priest are all corrupt.no suprise there.i would have to say and ive been around iskon for years 14 to be exact that half the devottes i have meet are gay or in the closet.the smart thing to do would be to allow people to have life partners,iskon is allready too divided with ritvik this and anti gay that.the purpose of religion is to love god and one another.if hare krishnas cant love one another and stop fighting over this and that.it is safe to say the movement will not go on…nor should it!!!!you wonder why the whole stait edge thing turned on you guys no ones a servant evefryone wants to tell thier neighbor what to do and believe.like children fighting its a very poor example
The purpose of religion is to live according to scriptures AND love god. You cannot ignore the scriptures and make up your own religion of doing whatever you want but loving god; for example, you cannot be a thief, cause suffering but still claim to love god and claim to be religious. Why? because scripture defines such as bad karma.
Scripture says that you must live as a brahmacharya until marriage, and after marriage, you cannot cheat. Marriage is defined to be between man and woman. Anyone who says otherwise is challenging the authority of scripture.
if the movement works,then there is no cause to suggest that any householders gay or strait are attracted to sex.maybee by yuor points the movement and religion really dont work,and it is all a waste of time.i dont believe that because a devotee is married that they need sex.just a thought
Andrew, devotees get married to have sex. That is why they get married.
And sex which is not meant for having children is illicit sex and is not permitted.
So the whole concept of “homosexual” means men who have sex with men. So that is illicit sex because it is not meant for having children. There is no service to Krishna in homosexual sex. It is 100% personal sense gratification only. So it is maya.
There is absolutely no reason at all if two men want to live together but not have sex that they need to label themselves as “homosexual”.
So the whole homosexual concept is maya. Sense gratification. It can not be compared to hetrosexual marriage as Krishna says He is sex life when it is done according to the regulative principles. So a man and a women can get married and through that marriage have sex and raise nice Krishna conscious children. And that is spiritual, that is Krishna, that is according to the regulative principles.
So you have to give up the idea that you are “homosexual” and take up the idea that you are a servant of Krishna.
Your mention of “gay householders” is ridiculous. House means wife and children. It is called grha. It is grhastha ashram. That means house, wife and children, family.
Homosexual means fallen and we need to accept that and rectify that. It is attachment for sense gratification and that is maya. There is nothing at all wrong with two men working together to serve Krishna and having a relationship based on that service. But that is a friendly relationship, not a sexual relationship, and the term “homosexual” is only for “men who have sex with men” and you have to come to the realization that devotee men do not have sex with men. If we do that we are not devotees but fallen. And being fallen is not very surprising. But if we are fallen and we convince ourselves that we are not fallen then that is a problem.
If we are fallen and we accept it then we can rectify it…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
Madhudvisa dasa Prabhue,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
I agree with you almost 100% on this topic. The exception would be where you state, “Gay devotees should just go about their chosen lifestyle without causing a disturbance but at the same time continue their devotional practice.”
In one instance you say that homosexuality was created and demonic. Here you state that it is chosen. I hope I am misunderstanding you. You also state that gay devotees should go about this chosen lifestyle and continue devotional service. I don’t think this is good advice or advice that Prabhupada would give. Sex life is NOT accepted in an initiated disciple and certainly NOT desirable in one’s spiritual advancement.
I’m not real sure why this is such an issue. Sex life except for procreation is sense gratification and not permitted for ANYONE so I don’t see the need for an ongoing conversation regarding gay devotees. This type of an article only makes the topic important when it is, in fact, not.
Hare Krsna
To add on –
up until marriage, one must live as a brahmacharya. afterwards, during marriage (which is between man and woman to raise a family), cheating on your spouse is sin:as made evident in the Garuda Purana. Thus, homosexual sex automatically either is sin for not living as a brahmacharya or cheating on your spouse.
All people who are gays must practice a brahmacharya lifestyle. that is perfectly acceptable.
Jai Shri Ram
Hare Krsna
What a wonderful, wonderful article.
You have explained the Principles alongside Compassion and that mixture is the truth of Krsna Consciousness. I personally know two very close people who are homosexuals and am very concerned about them. This article opens up my mind and puts homosexuality & Krsna Consciouness in clear perspective.
Haribol
Your servant.