Homosexual Marriages in ISKCON? The Ideal Is the Reality
May 12, 2005 by bhakta-pat
Filed under ISKCON
The contention of HH
Hridayananda Goswami
Maharaja is that
homosexual devotees be
allowed to stay together
with a partner of their
choice, as a heterosexual
couple would stay
together in the grhasta
asrama.
[this article comes from dipika.org and it covers the issue of homosexual marriage within ISKCON quite well so I am including it here. M.d.]
The contention of HH Hridayananda Goswami Maharaja is that homosexual devotees be allowed to stay together with a partner of their choice, as a heterosexual couple would stay together in the grhasta asrama. His statement in a letter to Chakra and Dipika is this: "I am not convinced that marriage is the best means in all cases, but some serious, formal and public recognition and appreciation of gay monogamy is, in my view, in the best interest of ISKCON and its members."
Although Maharaja says that he is not convinced that marriage is the best means in all cases, the suggestion here is that homosexual marriages should be accepted in some cases and recognition of monogamous relationships should be given in all other cases. Allowing homosexual marriages in some cases is a misnomer because all homosexual devotees will want this privilege, so this actually means allowing homosexual marriages within ISKCON in all cases as part of the grhasta asrama.
In one letter, Maharajah points out that his statements could lend themselves to interpretation, and he says that we should read carefully. Actually, his statements do not need interpretation. They are clear in their meaning, and the devotees that read them will understand them accordingly. Now even heterosexual grhastas following sincerely will feel encouraged to let their desires run wild, feeling less guilty when breaking this particular regulative principle: "no sex except for the procreation of children."
They will feel that since a senior leader in ISKCON made certain favorable statements regarding this matter, it is not such a big thing. This happens on a very subtle platform. Leaders need to be very careful what they say, especially in public.
He further suggests that this lifestyle should be formally accepted and accommodated in ISKCON even after initiation, where the disciple takes a vow to his spiritual master to follow the regulative principles strictly. He says that since many, many initiated heterosexual devotees in the grhasta asrama take the "no illicit sex" rule to mean "no sex outside of marriage" instead of "no sex except for the procreation of children," the homosexual devotees should also have this privilege.
Maharaja’s conclusion is that we should try to understand through guru, sadhu and sastra, and he questions that since sastra does not give any specific instruction on how to deal with homosexuality, we should reason our way to a conclusion on understanding how ISKCON should deal with this. He goes ahead and reasons how ISKCON should deal with this in his lengthy presentation and other letters that were published on Chakra and Dipika.
However, although the sastras give no clear understanding on how we should deal with this, Maharaja fails to enter into the mood of understanding through guru and sadhu—that is, to understand the mood of Prabhupada and the acaryas.
In all reference and discussions that Srila Prabhupada had on homosexuality, he never once suggested allowing same-sex relationships or marriages and especially after initiation. Maharaja has quoted Prabhupada on the first part of this sentence to his purport of 3:20:26, "It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahma." However, this is incomplete. The second part of Prabhupada’s sentence is: "the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demonic and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life."
So since Prabhupada mentions that this is demonic, should we not be careful in how we accept this into our practice? It is clearly different from heterosexual relationships. If we try to understand through our philosophy and common sense, we will find that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is abnormal. Brahma, the most intelligent person in this universe, created the different species of life under the direction of Krsna. There is a man and there is a woman. Now according to the laws of material nature, man-to-woman sex is normal because the male produces the sperm and the female produces the egg and this combination bears a child. This understanding is simple for the simple, and it gets complicated for the complicated.
One of our regulative principles, "no sex except for the procreation of children," needs no interpretation. A child cannot be procreated between unions of same-sex partners. Some time ago in Vrndavana, a senior grhasta devotee gave a seminar. He mentioned how once when he met Srila Prabhupada, he was asked how many children he had. Immediately upon hearing that he had no children because his wife and he did not want children, Prabhupada told him that "grhasta" meant children and he should have children. From this statement, I could understand Prabhupada’s mood: that we should not take up grhasta just to satisfy the genitals but we should give Krsna and Prabhupada something in return, a child who will some day serve this mission.
In this so-called normal society, there is at least some goodness, and leaders of most countries in the world today are against gay marriages. Indeed, the leader of the most influential country in the world, George W. Bush of the United States, won re-election recently, and one of his promises if re-elected was to work towards getting legislation passed that will make gay marriages illegal. So I can safely conclude that the majority of this world’s population are against legalizing gay marriages.
If world leaders who are not even in the mode of goodness and some leaders of other religious organizations who may have some goodness understand that this is abnormal and are resisting the homosexual activists’ attempts to have their marriages legalized, where does that leave us? This Krsna consciousness movement is seeking the highest purity. Our goal is to go beyond the mode of goodness and become transcendental.
Many times, Prabhupada said that we are the true Christians because we follow the ten commandments properly. I have seen many worshipers of other faiths lighting up cigarettes as soon as they come out of their places of worship. No one raises an eyebrow to these transgressions, but if a Krsna consciousness devotee in devotional clothing walks around smoking, people will criticize him or her. The local newspaper may even run a headline saying "Krsna devotee lights up his life." Why is this? People know the level of purity we aspire for, and they expect us to show that purity. We should lead the way.
So then if leaders of materialistic governments and other organizations that represent the majority are against gay marriages, what should be the situation of our leaders? We should lead the way in purity. Gay devotees should just go about their chosen lifestyle without causing a disturbance but at the same time continue their devotional practice. Krsna is in their hearts, and He knows their sincerity. It is not necessary to rewrite the rules, making all sorts of excuses just to enhance material enjoyment. Leave that to the sinful. Our spiritual leaders should be more responsible. Publicly, they should speak with one voice; otherwise, there will be confusion in our society.
In the Nectar of Devotion, Srila Rupa Goswami explains briefly about principles and details, and Srila Prabhupada gives this example: "A basic principle is that one has to accept a spiritual master. Exactly how one follows the instructions of his spiritual master is considered a detail. If one is following the instruction of his spiritual master and that instruction is different from the instructions of another spiritual master, this is called detailed information. But the basic principle of acceptance of a spiritual master is good everywhere, although the details may be different."
Principles always remain the same; changing them is a deviation although details may change according to time, place, and circumstance. Even to adjust details, one needs to be qualified in his understanding of the spiritual science of bhakti according to guru, sadhu, and sastra. Prabhupada, being Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s senapati bhakta, is empowered to make changes, and the four regulative principles given by him are especially for this age and should be added to the sixty four principles given by Srila Rupa Goswami.
One of the principles given by Srila Prabhupada is "no sex except for the procreation of children" This principle cannot be changed, and speaking about any other reality is a deviation. In fact, to follow strictly the four basic regulative principles given by Srila Prabhupada will bring one to the platform of appreciating how the other sixty-four are directly connected to worshiping Krsna personally, and this will qualify one to follow with devotion. In other words, the four regulative principles given by Srila Prabhupada are as important as the sixty-four given by Srila Rupa Goswami.
Devotees cannot have tailor-made rules to suit their desires. Rather, under the guidance of expert siksa or diksa gurus, they should sincerely see how to fit into these rules. There should be no compromise, but we should be compassionate. Lord Caitanya came to deliver the Jagais and Madhais, and Srila Rupa Goswami says that it is the birthright of everyone to accept devotional service and to take up Krsna consciousness, but we cannot sacrifice our standard of purity.
No one is more fallen than Jagai and Madhai, and being homosexual or heterosexual is no big sin compared to what they got up to. It does not matter if someone tries to satisfy material desires while following some type of devotional practice. One is still getting purification. Just try to be sincere. Even to say, "Oh Krsna," just once in a day is purifying in itself. However, the rules and regulations are most important, and if one wants to sincerely make advancement, there should be no compromise.















Hare Krsna
What a wonderful, wonderful article.
You have explained the Principles alongside Compassion and that mixture is the truth of Krsna Consciousness. I personally know two very close people who are homosexuals and am very concerned about them. This article opens up my mind and puts homosexuality & Krsna Consciouness in clear perspective.
Haribol
Your servant.
if the movement works,then there is no cause to suggest that any householders gay or strait are attracted to sex.maybee by yuor points the movement and religion really dont work,and it is all a waste of time.i dont believe that because a devotee is married that they need sex.just a thought
Andrew, devotees get married to have sex. That is why they get married.
And sex which is not meant for having children is illicit sex and is not permitted.
So the whole concept of “homosexual” means men who have sex with men. So that is illicit sex because it is not meant for having children. There is no service to Krishna in homosexual sex. It is 100% personal sense gratification only. So it is maya.
There is absolutely no reason at all if two men want to live together but not have sex that they need to label themselves as “homosexual”.
So the whole homosexual concept is maya. Sense gratification. It can not be compared to hetrosexual marriage as Krishna says He is sex life when it is done according to the regulative principles. So a man and a women can get married and through that marriage have sex and raise nice Krishna conscious children. And that is spiritual, that is Krishna, that is according to the regulative principles.
So you have to give up the idea that you are “homosexual” and take up the idea that you are a servant of Krishna.
Your mention of “gay householders” is ridiculous. House means wife and children. It is called grha. It is grhastha ashram. That means house, wife and children, family.
Homosexual means fallen and we need to accept that and rectify that. It is attachment for sense gratification and that is maya. There is nothing at all wrong with two men working together to serve Krishna and having a relationship based on that service. But that is a friendly relationship, not a sexual relationship, and the term “homosexual” is only for “men who have sex with men” and you have to come to the realization that devotee men do not have sex with men. If we do that we are not devotees but fallen. And being fallen is not very surprising. But if we are fallen and we convince ourselves that we are not fallen then that is a problem.
If we are fallen and we accept it then we can rectify it…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
Madhudvisa dasa Prabhue,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, who is very dear to Lord Krsna, having taken shelter at His lotus feet.
I agree with you almost 100% on this topic. The exception would be where you state, “Gay devotees should just go about their chosen lifestyle without causing a disturbance but at the same time continue their devotional practice.”
In one instance you say that homosexuality was created and demonic. Here you state that it is chosen. I hope I am misunderstanding you. You also state that gay devotees should go about this chosen lifestyle and continue devotional service. I don’t think this is good advice or advice that Prabhupada would give. Sex life is NOT accepted in an initiated disciple and certainly NOT desirable in one’s spiritual advancement.
I’m not real sure why this is such an issue. Sex life except for procreation is sense gratification and not permitted for ANYONE so I don’t see the need for an ongoing conversation regarding gay devotees. This type of an article only makes the topic important when it is, in fact, not.
Hare Krsna
who cares what george bush thinks?guess what he and the religious right crumbled this country all on the basis of rediculous religious superstition.youll admit he dosent like gay marriage but you fail to mention he sure liked bloodshed.and everyone knows the priest are all corrupt.no suprise there.i would have to say and ive been around iskon for years 14 to be exact that half the devottes i have meet are gay or in the closet.the smart thing to do would be to allow people to have life partners,iskon is allready too divided with ritvik this and anti gay that.the purpose of religion is to love god and one another.if hare krishnas cant love one another and stop fighting over this and that.it is safe to say the movement will not go on…nor should it!!!!you wonder why the whole stait edge thing turned on you guys no ones a servant evefryone wants to tell thier neighbor what to do and believe.like children fighting its a very poor example
the purpose of marriage is to beget children.So the concept of same-sex does not arise.I think sex-obsession has led the world to these wide-array things.looking into this we must avoid passionate things.doing tapsaya is only remedial measure mankind have.same-sex was existing and understanding it is important for normal population which is more than 95% of total population.avoid sex be human.
dont ruin your life with passionate things.gays exist it doesnot mean we have to turn like them.normal people don’t discourage them they are humans and one of us.its our moral duty to leave sex first and then tell others the harmful effects of sex.sex is itself an illusiory word today.tapasya is the right thing.hare krishna.
Hare Krishna! Prabhu/Mataji,
I would like to make a strictly confidential and anonymous complaint based on the incident which happened to me personally on 30th, April, 2010 at your ISKCON Temple, Coimbatore. I was there from 1800hrs until closing time of the darshan, and befriended one Prabhu Vanagopal Das, aged 28 according to what he said, and he was manning the bookstore inside the temple premises near the sanctum sanctorum. I was in a confusion, and was talking to him for hours about how to overcome the temptations like smoking/drinking/meat after wearing Tulsi Mala. Since, I myself was doing all those things like smoking/drinking/meat/masturbation/illicit sex before wearing Tulsi Mala. He did give me advice, and counselling spiritually based on ISKCON vaishnava principles. He also did gave me a Chanting Mala for which I paid Rs.100/- and the balance I asked him to donate to the temple itself, for which he told me he had no change, and since the darshan was closed he would take the money himself and put the balance the other (next following) day, to which I had no objections and I said Ok.
Later, he asked me to give him a lift in my car to drop him off at Thadagam Road junction, which interlinks the road to Vadavalli from where he will take the bus to go to his residence. I agreed since its raining and on the way to my home. During the trip in the car, Prabhu Vanagopal Das was telling to me he have had Gay sexual intercourse last month with the Tulsi Mala and another time when he was sleeping when other guys did something sexually to him, and he still have the temptations, and he said even at this moment he feels the same, and the same to me as well, and he claimed to be initiated and also wearing a Tulsi Mala sticked to his throat. I clearly told him that, am not a gay, and am straight. He didnt do anything unsual, considering gay laws have become legal in India. He didnt advance on me either. He wanted a kiss from me it seems before alighting from the car, for which I declined, and he caressed my hair above my forehead and also told me that I am handsome looking. I am 26, just 2 years younger to him.
I wonder, how people like him are even allowed to enter the Temple? What impression does this create to fellow ISKCON believers and devotees? I would like to keep this complaint 100% anonymous and strictly confidential about not revealing my identity in public, nor do I want to make a legal complaint with the Police authorities.
I hope the concerned Prabhuji’s or Mataji’s in ISKCON Coimbatore Temple will look into this matter very seriously and ban the above-mentioned person from entering the Temple in the near future and also take necessary legal action if necessary.
He gave me his Cellphone No. which is 9940903942
Please look that justice is served, if not by legal (Police Authorities & Local Laws) but by temple administration atleast. Once again I would like to remind that let this be a one - off communication from my side and please treat this communication strictly confidential and anonymous. A kind reply is highly anticipated about the outcome. (end result taken).
Thanking You!
Haribol!