ISKCON: From the Absolute Truth to Insanity…
Srila Prabhupada has given us the greatest gift. The absolute truth. Krishna consciousness, pure love of Krishna. He explains in great detail the simple and beautiful philosophy of Krishna consciousness. It is this beauty, perfection and simplicity of the timeless philosophy of Krishna consciousness so perfectly presented by Srila Prabhupada which attracted me to Krishna consciousness.
Over the years, to my great dismay, I have seen ISKCON systematically reject, misinterpret and now, with the book changes, change the teachings of Srila Prabhupada to suit their own ends. We have seen ISKCON introduce “political correctness”, love for the Mayavadis, Hinduization, the Gurudevis and Sannyasinis, centralized management, an insane Deity worship system, the book changes, the destruction of the brahmacari ashram, the destruction of the gurukul system, an so much other insanity and destruction that it is impossible to list without writing an encyclopedia…
Of course ultimately these rejections of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and the introduction of concocted new ideas by the GBC are all centered around the main ISKCON deviation, and that is the ISKCON guru tattva… Actually there is no ISKCON guru philosophy that can be supported by any sastric evidence. Every year the GBC set up a new ‘Guru Sastra Research Committee’ and give them the task of proving that what they are doing is bona fide according to the sastra. But of course none of these ‘Guru Sastra Research’ committees can ever come up with anything that justifies what the ISKCON gurus are doing. Because it is insane.
The current ISKCON guru tattva is simply that anyone in ISKCON can become a guru provided he or she has some aspiring disciples and that none of the GBC members object to him or her becoming a guru. That’s it. There are no qualifications required at all. Bhakti Vikasa Swami, who presents himself as a strict follower, is lobbying the GBC to add ‘strict following’ to their currently nonexistent list of qualifications ISKCON gurus need to have. But he does not mean strictly following Prabhupada unfortunately. He means getting out of bed before 4:00 in the morning and practicing some austerities and not eating too much and following the regulative principles and chanting 16 rounds a day. You know, the things that every bhakta has to agree to do before he moves into the temple… We have seen many devotees ‘strictly following’ these principles for some time over the years. But this ‘strict following’ does not prove anything. We see so many of these devotees ‘strictly following’ for some years then falling into maya. The Mayavadis strictly follow, much more so than the ISKCON devotees do, but Mayavadis never become devotees. So ‘strict following’ really, in itself, does not prove anything at all.
Of course a real devote does strictly follow, but just because someone is strictly following does not prove he is a real devotee and it certainly does not prove that he is qualified to accept disciples!
The demons who understand they can become powerful by following the Vedic system also strictly follow. You will not find a more strict follower than Hiranyakasipu, but his ‘strict following’ was to gain strength so he could ultimately kill Visnu. Of course Hiranyakasipu could not kill Visnu, but he did become very, very strong through his ‘strict following.’
One who really does strictly follow everything Srila Prabhupada says is a pure devotee, a liberated soul and a perfect spiritual master, that is a different thing… and that is very rare…
Of course, the GBC will never add ‘strict following’ to their non-existent list of qualifications for becoming an ISKCON guru. They absolutely do not require ISKCON gurus to follow anything strictly. Their idea is everything goes as long as the gurus don’t get caught. And even if they get caught that is also OK as long as they can cover it up and the disciples don’t find out… They knew Prabhuvisnu “Swami” was collecting guru daksine from his followers and going to Thailand and Bangkok and spending it on prostitutes. He got caught at least three times over a period of more than ten years, but this is fine according to the GBC, he is a bona-fide ISKCON guru, because they were able to cover it up. It only becomes a problem if they can’t cover it up…
So with this background we can understand why ISKCON is quite desperate to keep their existing ‘guru tattva’ (anyone can be an ISKCON guru as long as no one on the GBC objects to them becoming a guru). Of course this means rejecting everything Srila Prabhupada and Krishna teach us about guru. And it also means redefining the philosophy of Krishna consciousness into something that is no longer logical. The philosophy ISKCON preaches today does not make sense therefore thoughtful people can not accept such rubbish.
Every ISKCON temple strongly preaches that the guru does not have to be a liberated soul, he does not have to be free from the bondage of the three modes of material nature. Conditioned souls in the material world are not free. They are bound by the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance which are compared with three very strong ropes twisted together. So you can imagine a man completely tied up with these three very strong ropes. He is absolutely not liberated. And you can imagine that man “preaching” to another conditioned soul who is also bound up with those three strong ropes and he is boasting, “I am a guru, surrender to me, wash my feet, if you please me I will untie your ropes for you…” But how can this foolish bogus guru untie the ropes of anyone else? His own hands and legs are completely bound up and tied up. He is completely incapable of untying the ropes that bind another person, he can not even free himself.
But some fools will go along with this bogus ISKCON guru, give him money, wash his feet and go to Hell with him…
So let us hear some perfect knowledge from a perfectly liberated soul, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada which if you dare to repeat in an ISKCON temple you will be very quickly shown the door…
“Another meaning of gu?a is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself–he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord K???a, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature.” (from Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Bhagavad-gita 7.14)
This is such a perfect and logical philosophy, it is the truth, the absolute truth:
A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself–he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated.
It is insanity to say a conditioned “guru” can free another conditioned soul from illusion. The guru himself is in illusion. It is the blind guru guiding the blind disciple. There can be no auspicious result from this. This is such a clear point but the ISKCON gurus and devotees reject it. But one can not reject Srila Prabhupada and concoct another philosophy “the bound can free the bound therefore you should accept a conditioned soul as your guru…” and preach this in ISKCON in the name of Srila Prabhupada.
“Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. One who knows in truth how Krsna is appearing, how Krsna is disappearing, he is learned. He is learned in the spiritual science, and for him, as soon as he becomes learned, well-versed in the spiritual science, Krsna science, he immediately becomes liberated. Caitanya Mahaprabhu confirms, yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128]. Because one who has understood Krsna in truth, he is liberated person. Therefore he is guru. Guru cannot be a conditioned soul. Guru must be liberated. Because without complete knowledge of Krsna, without being free from the contamination of the three modes of material nature… One cannot understand Krsna on account of his being engrossed with these three material modes of nature. And Krsna says, “One who understand Me rightly, he becomes immediately free.” Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9].” (710216LE.GOR)
This is our siddhanta, our philosophy, “Guru cannot be a conditioned soul. Guru must be liberated. Because without complete knowledge of Krsna, without being free from the contamination of the three modes of material nature one can not understand Krsna.”
Again, if you dare to mention this fact in ISKCON you will be very quickly thrown out of the temple….
But it is only logical. We want to become liberated. We want to become free from the control of the modes of material nature, we want to become pure devotees of Krishna, because it is only by becoming pure devotees of Krishna that we can reestablish our eternal loving relationship with Krishna and again be reinstated in our original constitutional position as a servant of Krishna. So we have to find a guru who is already liberated, who is already a pure devotee of Krishna so he can guide us and help us to achieve the same success that he has already achieved himself.
Of course ISKCON have a quote, only one quite, from Srila Prabhupada, and they say: “Prabhupada Said:” “A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples.” This is the “justification” ISKCON gives for its philosophy that conditioned souls can be gurus… But this is a typical example of ISKCON taking a statement from Srila Prabhupada completely out of context and using it to establish exactly the opposite thing that Srila Prabhupada is really saying.
This quote from Srila Prabhupada is taken from his purport to Nectar of Instruction Text 5. The whole paragraph reads like this:
“In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami advises the devotee to be intelligent enough to distinguish between the kanistha-adhikari, madhyama-adhikari and uttama-adhikari. The devotee should also know his own position and should not try to imitate a devotee situated on a higher platform. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.”
One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.
Just see how dishonest ISKCON is!!! This is their “proof” that conditioned souls can be spiritual masters! Actually this is a warning to the devotees not to become spiritual masters unless they are uttama-adhikaris and a warning not to accept a spiritual master unless he is an uttama-adhikari.
Honestly I find it ridiculous that one has to even write an article like this. How could anyone be so stupid as to accept a guru who he knows is a conditioned soul? This is insanity. If you can’t understand the basic fundamental principle that if you want to learn something you have to find a teacher who is qualified in that art, then you are an idiot, with all due respect. It is something like if you want to become a lawyer, but you can not find a lawyer to teach you so you accept a street-sweeper as your teacher and you ask him to teach you law. How can a street-sweeper teach you law? He does not know the science, he is not a lawyer…
We approach a guru because we want to become liberated from the material concept of life. But if the so-called guru is also a conditioned soul he can not help us to become liberated. This is just plain and simple. Just like a street-sweeper can not help you become a lawyer, a conditioned soul can not help you become liberated…
Who is such a fool that they can not understand this????
Another example is a man drowning in the ocean. The ocean is very rough and the waves are very strong. If there is another man there who can’t swim himself but is making a big show saying, “I will save that drowning man…” But how can he save that drowning man? He can not swim himself. So what will happen if he jumps into the water to try to save the drowning man? They will both drown. He will not be able to save the other man and he will loose his own life in the attempt.
This is another argument the ISKCON gurus put. They say “the people need gurus, someone has to do this service, so I am doing this service. Yes, I am a conditioned soul but someone has to be guru!!!” They do not realize, like the noble man who wanted to save the drowning man, but who could not swim himself so he could not save the drowning man, they can not help the people who need gurus unless they are themselves liberated souls… To be a guru one has to be liberated. A conditioned soul can not be a guru. Because people come to a guru so they can get help from the guru to become liberated themselves. So if a “guru” is not liberated he is a cheater. He is presenting himself as someone who can help but he can not even help himself.
So ISKCON ignore, reject, misinterpret and twist everything Prabhupada says about the guru to try and ‘prove’ that conditioned souls can become gurus. In this way they have rejected Prabhupada. Of course Srila Prabhupada is not saying anything on his own strength. He is simply a messenger. And he has received the pure message of Krishna consciousness in the disciplic succession from his spiritual master and in this way the message is coming directly from Krishna through Srila Prabhupada. So rejecting Prabhupada means rejecting Krishna. So naturally we find ISKCON also reject the very basic and fundamental teachings of Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita:
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.” (Bhagavad-gita 4.34)
This is the basic fundamental philosophy that underlies the whole concept of Krishna consciousness. One must learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. One must inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.
Like I have already said, I should not have to explain such simple things. This is Krishna consciousness 101, and ISKCON completely rejects it. The do not like it. But even though ISKCON do not like it and they want you to accept a conditioned soul as your guru, if you do this that will destroy your spiritual life. Because the bound can not free the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. So you can know it very clearly that a conditioned soul can not help you to become liberated… He is bound up by the modes of material nature and the bound can not free the bound. the rescuer has to be liberated…
And of course, if you have been reading Srila Prabhupada’s books, you will know that one can not become a devotee until he is liberated. So liberation is only the beginning of devotional service…
There are thousands and thousands of statements in Prabhupada’s books that confirm what I am saying here. This is the truth. The guru must be a liberated soul. And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. Someone who is not liberated does not have the capacity to help you become liberated.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
Related Posts
Does Initiation Make The Maha-Mantra Work? →
Correcting ISKCON’s Guru System →
Very Difficult times for new Bhaktas… →
HARE KṚṢṆA prabhu Madhudvisa dasa
ji
dandavat Pranam please accept my humble obesciences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada 🙏.
Where to find uttama-adhikari spiritual master? Do they even exist today?
You will find him in Srila Prabhupada’s books.
Prabhupada is an uttama-adhikari spiritual master. He is living in his books, just waiting for you to read them…
Absolute statement🙏
Hare Krishna prabhuji dandvat Pranaam 🙏.
I have some doubts
Did srila Prabhupada not empower any of his disciples to act as guru?
Are all disciples of srila Prabhupada are bound?
Please forgive me if you feel bad. My intention is only to clear my doubts.
You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Srila Prabhupada gave all his disciples everything that is necessary for them to become bonafide gurus. However it is up to the disciples to surrender and actually follow the process that Prabhupada gave them.
And the reality is hardly anyone is prepared to surrender. That is why Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita, manusunam sahasrasu: “Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavour for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.” https://www.asitis.com/7/3.html
So yes, certainly Prabhupada has given us all everything we need to become bona fide spiritual masters. But out of many thousands of us, one of us may endeavour for perfection, but out of those who have achieved perfection hardly one knows Krishna in truth. So actual spiritual master is not just the perfect one, but the one out of all the perfect men, because hardly any of the perfect men know Krishna in truth.
So actual qualified spiritual master, is is such a rare thing. Therefore it is safe to presume, unless there is evidence to the contrary, that anyone posing as a spiritual master is a bogus cheater.
If we take this attitude we will not be mislead.
Because actual spiritual master, actual Vaisnava acharya, he rises like the sun, and when the sun is rising, everyone can see it. As when Srila Prabhuapda went to the United States and started preaching it was like the sun rising and everyone had to admit that Srila Prabhuapda is a pure devotee of Krishna, empowered to spread Krishna consciousness all over the world. Even his envious godbrothers, ultimately they also had to admit that Srila Prabhupada was specially empowered. A pure devotee.
So this is the point. If one is actually a qualified spiritual master the symptoms will be there for everyone to see. He will perform wonderful activities, like Srila Prabhupada did, turning the worst drug-addicted meat eaters and drunkards into pure devotees of Krishna and spreading Krishna consciousness all over the world, something predicted by Lord Caitanya and prayed for by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and desired by Srila Bhaktsiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur, but considered impossible by practically everyone except Srila Prabhupada.
So this is the point. Real bona fide spiritual master, there are symptoms. And if there are no symptoms of bona fide spiritual master, he is just a cheater, a demon, a rascal. And the worst hell is awaiting those engaged in the “guru business.” You can read all about it in Sri Isopanisad. These are the worst people in society, the bogus gurus engaged in the guru business, and they will go to the worst hellish planet on the completion of their guru business with their bogus disciples.
They are the worst elements in society and they create the greatest danger and devastation in people’s spiritual lives. They are causing the greatest violence as they are disrupting the people’s natural advancement towards Krishna consciousness. Because they attempt to hijack the service of their disciples, for their own benefit, instead of simply guiding their disciples in how to serve Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and passing on any contributions the disciples may give them to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna they try to enjoy the contributions themselves..
Great demons, the greatest demons, that is why the worst hellish planet is waiting for them.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
It is clear and simple to understand when spiritual authority and political influence and administrative authority is given to the same person is not workable and deem for destruction but nevertheless srila prabhupada built a house in which the whole world can live in with no boundaries and discrimination , it opens for all the ravanas kamsa putanas so when maximum strength of demons become intolerable pure devotees will go to the ocean of milk and pray and beg for the lord intervention to protect the devotees and destroy the demons and peace and love will prevail .
Hare krsna prabhu, all glories to radha madhava, gaura-nitai, bhakta vrinda, all glories to srila prabhupada
Please accept my humble obesciances
It is really a blessing to associate with you and hear the knowledge same as our previous acharyas. It is really a mercy to get spiritual master as pure devotee like srila prabhupada. I m trying with all my energy to follow in his lotus footsteps by reading all the books which is the most valuable gift one could ever have
I have recently came to know that Hare Krishna Movement is seperated from ISKCON 10 years ago,and when asked about ISKCON,they have told the same as you have mentioned.But I heard from few devotees of ISKCON that the HKM movement is bogus and false ISKCON. I have even read many things about Madhupandit Dasa that he was arrested for stealing ISKCON funds and much more.I am constantly told(attacked) that HKM is bogus and fake by y ISKCON friends but they(HKM) seem to be very sincere (infact some i know are truly sincere)and actively spreading Krishna Consciousness through preachings(in various Eng clgs) massive book distributions,etc.I a very confused about this.Please through soe light on this Issue.
Hare Krishna Vamsi
Yes. Both are bogus now. ISKCON and HKM both have concocted their own interpretations of the teachings of Srila Prabhupada.
The real ISKCON and the real Hare Krishna Movement, you can only find that by reading Srila Prabhupada’s original books.
So read Srila Prabhupada’s books and you will find out the real things…
Actually, when the GBC members understand and realise they are there for serving ISKCON’s managerial affairs, as Srila Prabhupada instructed, everything is oke.
Furthermore, Srila Prabhupada states in his comment of the 3.9 BG verse that in the beginning stages of ones Krishna consciousness one needs the expert guidance of a devotee of Sri Krishna or from Sri Krishna himself.
It’s not eternal, this need of guidance Srila Praphupada factually declares. Thereby he gives proper, mature understanding of the relationship guru/disciple.
Srila Prabhupada many times was very much into preaching rigid sadhana bhakti but also very much into preaching “you can do it in a second if you understand”. This many ksatriya sadhanas and fake brahmins don’t understand, being completely stuck in their personal brahmajyoti.
When my guru was convinced I was convinced of the Supreme Absolute Truth and how to attain it he let go of me. Up until that time he was protective and instructive. He is a GBC member but I can imagine he many times votes against whatever being proposed within the GBC although I do not know this for a fact.
Luckily my bhakti toward Lord Krishna is not depending on the GBC, Iskcon or my guru for that matter. Naturally I am happy to have killed my guru in the proces because somehow or other I have received some spontaneous attachment also for him since naturally he is part and parcel of Sri Krishna, of course.
imho Just try to develop some taste for the relationship with Sri Krishna and thereby get rid more and more of the lower taste for temporary sense gratification. A strong desire and activities related are the main ingredients because of which Sri Krishna becomes pleased and reveals Himself more and more to you.
Srila Prabhupada and all other realised Vaisnavas ki jaya!
Hara Krishna Prabu,
All glories to srila prabupada!
Thank you for replying but my question remains un answered. Chaitanya mahaprabu not ony rejected impersonal liberation but also sayujya,salokya,samipya etc kinds of liberation this is evident from his conversation with the thatva vadis in udupi who where Madhavas but Chaitanya mahaprabhu rejected their concept of liberation as the ultimate goal.
regards
utsav
Yes. Of course. Because liberation is NOT, NOT, NOT the ultimate goal.
The ultimate goal is to develop love for Krishna and be engaged in the service of Krishna, this is devotional service, this is the ultimate goal…
So, why does chaitanya mahaprabu humbug liberation?
Hare Krishna Utsav
Liberation is nothing compared to devotional service. Liberation is the best the impersonalists and mayavadis can hope for. It is their ultimate goal. But a devotee hates the thought of this impersonal liberation. This sort of liberation is like Hell for a devotee.
It is because in this impersonal liberation there is no ability to perform any actions, therefor one can not serve Krishna in this ‘liberated’ condition.
Actually this ‘liberation’ of the mayavadis and impersonalists is not permanent. The actual true state of liberation is to go back home, back to Godhead, to be serving Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan, the spiritual world. There we have sat cit ananda vigraha. We are eternal, full of ever-increasing knowledge and bliss and we have an eternally youthful spiritual form. We have our individuality and our personalty and we are engaged in the service of Krishna. That is real liberation, that is our natural, eternal constitutional position.
As far as this impersonal liberation of merging with brahman, it is not actually possible to merge with brahman, so that is an illusion. The example is given of a green bird flying into a green tree. The green bird appears to have merged into the green tree. But actually it is not the case. The green bird is in the green tree and still maintains his individuality and if you watch that tree for a while you will see that the same green bird will again fly out of the tree. It did not merge with the tree. It just looks like that.
Similarly the spirit soul can ‘merge’ with the brahmajoti, the brahman effulgence of Krishna. But it does not actually merge. It remains as an individual shining spirit soul within the brahmajoti. So it appears to have merged but actually there is no merging. In this condition the soul can experience only the sat and cit aspects of liberation, no ananda and no vigraha, no real bliss and no spiritual form. So it is incomplete. The so-called ‘liberated’ impersonalist can experience only the eternality and knowledge aspects of liberation. There is no bliss except there is a relief from the sufferings of the material world. So this is not satisfying in the long-run because we are all eternally spiritual persons and we need to have some activities and we need to associate with others. And the ‘liberated’ impersonalist has no activities and no ability to associate with anyone else… So ultimately he becomes bored with this so-called liberation and like the green bird flying out of the green tree he leaves the brahmajoti and again takes a material body in the material world so he can have some activities and associate with some people…
So this ‘liberation’ of the mayavadis and impersonalists is not really liberation, it is not permanent, and it is like Hell for the devotees, devotees will never accept this type of ‘liberation.’
There is great transcendental pleasure, ananda, in serving Krishna, but the impersonalists have no knowledge of this transcendental pleasure…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hara Krishna Prabu
Please accept my humble obeisance. All glories to srila prabupada!
Could you give quotation for the following article” Guru cannot be a conditioned soul. Guru must be liberated. Because without complete knowledge of Krsna, without being free from the contamination of the three modes of material nature one can not understand Krsna.”
How do you define liberation and, what is the correlation between liberation and knowing Krishna?
yei krsna-tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc. Madhya 8.128] The verse doesn’t say anything bout liberation.
Chaitanya mahaprabhu always chided liberation. This is clear from the discussion of chaitanya mahaprabhu and tattvavadis in Udupi Krishna Temple( CC ) so, why do you stress so much on liberation ? I request you to define liberation so tat ill have clarity its my clarion call to you.
YS
Utsav hedge k
Hare Krishna
Liberation just means not on the bodily concept of life. It means actually realizing that one is not the body but the spirit soul. So the symptoms of a liberated person are that he is no longer in any way identifying with the material body. So a liberated person is completely free from any desire for sex life for example. He is completely indifferent to the demands of the senses of the material body. That is liberation. Of course liberation alone is not a sufficient qualification for one to be a spiritual master. It is one of the required qualifications.
The Vedic statement for the qualification of a guru is srotyam brahma nistham. Srotyam means he has to have heard from the proper source and brahma nistham means he has to be fixed on the brahman platform, which means liberated. So there it is absolutely impossible for someone to be a guru if he has not heard from the proper source, and that means he only repeats the things he has heard from the proper source, and he has to be brahma nistham, fixed on the brahman platform, liberated.
In addition he has to know the science of Krishna… There are many things. Guru is not a cheap thing. Bona fide guru is a very, very rare thing. But if we are to make any advancement in Krishna consciousness we have to find the bona fide guru and surrender to him and serve him. The only way to become Krishna conscious is by surrendering to a bona fide spiritual master and serving him.
It is completely useless to accept a conditioned soul as your spiritual master. He can not help you at all because he has not yet even been able to help himself off the bodily concept of life.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna!
Pranam Swamiji,
After reading your article ISKON from absolute truth to insanity.It is very unfortunate that movement started by our Guru Sri Prabhupada is not moving right direction.
I humbly want to convey you that it is not only the position of ISKON, it is happening with other so called organisation which is very proud of propagating Krishna Conciousness Movement other than ISKON. They have many branches all over India & I think in abroad also. I narrate the following which I witnessed Swamiji.
I go to nearby …….. Mutt temple where I live. Last week they have organized Srimadh Baghvat Katha, (about Sri Krishna’s past times etc), one Swamiji from Vrindavan was delivering lecture. The programme was organised for 5 hours daily for 7 days. Due to domestic work, I attended last 2 days. Both days they reduced the timing of lecture and organised dance programme 1st day there was a drama played by children in the temple itself. Last day, one young foreign lady performed Indian Classical dance due to this, the swamiji briefed his lecture (surprisingly not impressive ie lack of Bhakti Rasa) and did not explained Sudhama story, prayers by Rukmani and Krishna’s family, Udhava prayers, Kunti prayer and how Lord Krishna left this world.I was very much upset, above all, all men including sanyasis in the mutt, enjoyed her dance very much and every men including young sanyasis of the Mutt catching her on their mobile.. I was very much shocked how they are allowing dance etc inside the temple? I did not get any spiritual boost from Bhagvat Katha which I usually get after listening rather I felt myself in theatre.
After this, the Krishna prasada served I came to know that which was prepared by Pvt.Caterers (prepared outside which was luxurious than usually served) usually they prepare in the Mutt itself and they have changed this system also. Hari bol! why people like me visit temple? To improve our spiritual life and get blessings/advise from Krshna devotees/Sanyasis. But nowadays, temples become theatres, commercial centres.
Pray to Lord Krishna to show them right path.
I humbly ask you to forgive me whatever I have written is hurting you. Because Vaishnava Aparatha is greatest sin, which Lord Krishna never forgive.
Pranam
Uma Sridhar
Lord Chaitanya is running the show. He is no fool. He can see what is happening, and will correct everything in due course of time. Demons like me only have time.
Lord Caitanya, Krishna, have given us the independence to run the show. So we can reject Them and Their pure representative His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and try to run the show ourselves, as the ISKCON GBC has done. Of course this will end in disaster. And according to your false theory Lord Caitanya will be responsible for this disaster because according to you He is running the show in ISKCON. It is nonsense. Lord Caitanya is not running this abomination called ISKCON. It is being run by the GBC who think they can do better than Srila Prabhupada, so they have rejected Prabhupada, rejected Krishna, rejected Lord Caitanya… So they can run the show themselves… Let us see how they do…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
hare krsna iskon is indeed hipocritical in many instances and is moving backwards devotees must dig deep in the sea of knowledge to know krsna
Hare Krishna. Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
A genuine guru has absolutely no need to obtain the approval of a group of conditioned souls like the GBC. He is already empowered by his guru and Krishna. This is the example of all the acaryas. We don’t find any of them going to some institution to get a “rubber stamp.”
On the other hand, in corporate “ISKCON” one is not considered a so-called guru unless they have been officially approved by the governing body. This is not Krishna consciousness, it is organized religion, much like the Catholic church.
“It is imperative that a serious person accept a bona fide spiritual master in terms of the sastric injunctions. Sri Jiva Goswami advises that one not accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ECCLESIASTICAL CONVENTIONS. One should simply try to find a genuinely qualified spiritual master for actual advancement in spiritual understanding.” – Chaitanya Charitamrita, Adi 1.35, purport
Someone who does not understand this basic teaching of Krishna consciousness cannot be guru and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta makes this clear in one of his articles about sahajiya:
siddhanta-alasa jana anartha to’ chade na
jade krsna bhrama kori’ krsna-seva kore na
“One who is lazy in properly understanding the Vaishnava philosophical conclusions can never become free from anarthas, the unwanted bad habits and philosophical misconceptions that impede devotional service.” Prakrta-Rasa Sata-Dusini by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada, 28
This means that anyone who follows corporate “ISKCON,” especially the so-called gurus, thinking that the GBC can appoint “guru” is under the grip of anarthas. They are all misleading their followers regardless of how well they can parrot the ABCs of the philosophy.
A genuine devotee does not cowtow to mundane governing bodies like the GBC, which have at least deviated from the acaryas by concocting this “guru by GBC” impediment. He only follows Krishna and His genuine pure devotees.
This means that the so-called gurus of corporate “ISKCON” are all like dogs who have to keep their tails wagging so as to not anger their powerful GBC masters. They and all the people who follow them are, therefore, all some variety of sudra, and this includes the so-called traditional “strict followers” like Bhakti Vikas swami.
This is not real Vaishnavism but a type of spiritual poison. Who are the people defamed by these people? It is the ones who point these truths out.
adharmam dharmam iti ya
manyate tamasavrta
sarvarthan viparitams ca
buddhih sa partha tamasi
That understanding which considers irreligion to be religion and religion to be irreligion, under the spell of illusion and darkness, and strives always in the wrong direction, O Partha, is in the mode of ignorance. Bhagavad-gita 18.32
Corporate “ISKCON” became covered by the mode of darkness when the zonal acaryas usurped the movement in 1978, and since some of these men are still recognized as so-called gurus, that covering remains.
We should not forget that the zonals actually lied at first about being appointed “gurus” by Srila Prabhupada. This went on until Jadurani devi dasi got Ramesvara to give her the now famous “appointment tape,” and she demonstrated clearly that there was no such appointment made therein. This is what led to Ramesvara taking his vyasasana out of the LA temple for some months in a rare flash of real honesty. Needless to say, the others soon got him to put it back. Real gurus don’t lie about such a thing. Srila Prabhupada says this:
Reporter: But the bad gurus…
Srila Prabhupada: And what is a “bad” guru?
Reporter: A bad guru just wants some money or some fame.
Srila Prabhupada: Well, if he is bad, how can he become a guru? [Laughter.] How can iron become gold? Actually, a guru cannot be bad, for if someone is bad, he cannot be a guru. – The Science of Self Realization, Chapter Two, Choosing a Spiritual Master – “Saints and Swindlers”
This means that “guru reform” is a contradiction of Vaishnava philsophy. This is another idea that will only be accepted by sudras. One should completely avoid these people:
“However, those who propagate bhagavad-bhakti as the highest dharma–yet behave against the principles of suddha-bhakti–can be especially harmful to us. In the name of bhakti, they instruct us against the actual principles of bhakti. This ultimately leads us to a path that is diametrically opposed to bhagavad-bhakti. Therefore, with great endeavor, our previous acaryas have defined the svarupa or intrinsic nature of bhakti, repeatedly cautioning us to keep away from polluted and mixed concepts.” Bhakti Viveka Tattva by Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur
Your article is very good because it cautions others not to spoil their lives by following people who are basically making their living off of the temples and Srila Prabhupada’s one time movement:
“One cannot deny the order of a spiritual master. Therefore one has to select a spiritual master whose order, carrying, you’ll not commit a mistake. You see? Now, suppose if you accept a wrong person as spiritual master, and if you, if he guides you wrongly, then YOUR WHOLE LIFE IS SPOILED. So one has to accept a spiritual master whose guidance will make his life perfect. That is the relation between spiritual master and disciple. It is not a formality. It is a great responsibility both for the disciple and for the spiritual master.” – Bhagavad-Gita Lecture 2.7-11–New York, March 2, 1966
Please continue writing like this and defending Srila Prabhupada’s real teachings.
People who become madhyama adhikari or Uttama adhikari or completely God realized, do not say so. If someone says he has become any of the above, he is under the spell of maya, hallucinating, manipulating, lying, or simply being an obvious fool. Shaastras clearly define the parameters of a genuine guru. Desh, kaal, prasanga (country, times, context) along with varna-ashrama-dharma has to be considered and aligned with Dharma (the Universal Dharma) while accepting a guru as well a desciple. Since conditioned souls are genuinely incapable of selecting the right guru, that is precisely why Shaastras give us unambiguous and absolutely clear account of how to choose a guru. A conditioned soul will choose a guru based on a thousand factors of this and previous lives, and continue her journey to Godhead. There is no hurry, God has a plan for everyone. So take it easy and keep your love of God close in your heart and soul … , Do everything for Him, dedicate all the results to Him, and You will certainly reach Him. So says The Lord Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.
Very well-reasoned. I’m sure the demons are quite unhappy with this article 🙂
A bound soul can NEVER be a true Guru. They can perhaps be a “rugu” though — one who takes you from light to darkness, lol.
If your devotion is fake or halfhearted, you may very well end up with a fake or halfhearted guru. You can’t fool God.
Ultimately, God sees what’s in our hearts. If our hearts are pure and full of love for Him (often accompanied by tons of gushing tears and loving, longing sobs from the anguish of being separate from Him) and He knows we want Him above all else, He’ll send us to a True Master who will deliver us to Him. How could He not? His heart would break at the pitiful cries of His child weeping uncontrollably for Him. Those who end up with false gurus are often false disciples or at least immature ones, and yet He’ll make sure the sincere devotees get what they need… and when they become pure enough in their devotion, they will be taken to a true, fully-liberated Guru who will lead them Home.
Love, Devotion, Faith and Surrender will ensure that each sincere lover of God ends up nearer to their Beloved.
Thanks for your wonderful message. Was a delight to read.
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
In light of the downfall of ISKCON is there anyone qualified, interested and able to put this information into a book? I look back at the take-over of Christianity by the Roman Catholic church and wonder if ISKCON may be on the same route. How enlightening it would be for those interested in serving Krsna and who had found ISKCON, that this information was readily available, so they could see “the other side” of the ISKCON story. I have firm faith that those who want or deserve to be cheated will be, but I also understand that any devotee of Krsna does not want to see anyone fall into the ISKCON “trap”. In the 80’s I often visited the local ISKCON center, and had no idea of what had transpired amoung the “leadership”. I just felt no attraction for the “Spiritual Masters” I had encountered and eventually stopped visiting the center even though my visits were always enjoyable and satisfying. I know Krsna will guide me to a spritual master when I am ready, but in light of ISKCON’s degradation what do you reccommend for those interested in advancement of spiritual life?
Thank you.
Hare Krishna!
Please accept my deepest respects!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you Prabhu for you insightful look at the current guru (so-called)system that is polluting Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON. I would like to say that ISKCON is pure as it is Srila Prabhupada’s body yet there are those within its ranks that choose to cheat those sincere souls who actually want to serve Lord Sri Krishna.
Even when Srila Prabhupada was physically on the planet his society was even then riddled with rascals and envious people only now we have those same rascals in positions of power.
My question is; if one has taken initiation from one of these ISKCON “gurus” is he infact truly initiated and linked to Srila Prabhupada regardless of who actually carried out the initiation. So many gurus (they were never really gurus to begin with) have fallen and left pain in their wake but what of those ‘disciples’ that were left behind? Do they require to undergoe the same possible fate by taking another initiation or can they just follow Srila Prabhupada’s books, follow the four principles and chant their rounds? Is this enough or are they never going to able to return to the spirtiual world because their ‘guru’ fell down or was not qualified?
I would like to give you an example. If one is initiated by a guru who is not qualified but that disciple chants his rounds, reads Srila Prabhupada’s books, follows the principles and preaches what he has read from Srila Prabhupada’s books is this enough?
I look forward to your response.
Hare Krishna!
Your servant,
Nityananda dasa
Hare Krishna Nityananda Prabhu
No one can be initiated by someone who is not qualified as a guru.
The idea is one has to get the seed of the plant of bhakti, the bhakti-lata-bija, from the bona fide spiritual master, and he has to plant that seed within his heart and nurture and cultivate the tiny plant of bhakti in his heart by the watering process of hearing and chanting. But the only person who can supply the seed, the bhakti-lata-bija, is the pure devotee who has the full-grown plant of bhakti in his heart that is actually flowering and producing the fruits and the seeds. So it is only a pure devotee on the topmost platform who has the mature plant of bhakti which is actually producing the seeds that he can distribute to his disciples.
An unqualified guru may have some tiny creeper of the bhakti plant in his heart but if it is not mature, if it is not flowering and producing fruits, there are no seeds so he can not give the seed of the plant of bhakti to anyone.
So no one can be initiated by a bogus guru. Such devotees, who are so unfortunate to surrender to a bogus guru, are in a very difficult position. They are not initiated into Krishna consciousness and because they have been cheated by one bogus guru then it is very difficult for them to surrender to anyone. Even if they do happen to come in contact with a bona fide guru, because of being cheated by a bogus guru before, generally they will not be able to surrender. And without surrender there is no Krishna consciousness.
So generally those who have accepted a bogus guru will be unable to take to Krishna consciousness for many, many, many lifetimes.
These bogus gurus are doing so much harm and as Srila Prabhupada states in the Sri Isopanasad, the worst hellish planet is waiting for them once they finish their ‘guru business…’
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank You for imparting your knowledge to me.
I have not been initiated but I have been a diciple of Srila Prabhupada
since buying my first Bhagvad Gita 30 yrs ago.
I read Srimad Bhagvatam and CC daily and I look forward to your e-mails.
Thank you
Joe Rael (JaiGovindadas)
Hare Krishna Prabhu. This article has really helped me identify Srila Prabhupada’s mission, especially in the West. Can you please explain further what his mood was towards achieving a success in his mission?
Read Prabhupada’s books and find out from him directly…
Let Iskcon do what they do. Be free from finding fault in others. Stay detached from Iskcon. Give pranams from far away. Spend all your time following the instructions of Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja and do not be concerned with them. The faults we see in others will one day come back to us.
May Sri Harinama always dance on your tongue and absorb your mind and
heart. May the mood that Srila Prabhupada has for Sri RadhaKrsna fill your soul.
Hare Krishna Dasa
I read the article and I am with you on this issue.
I breathe krishna and see krishna everywhere but it hurts to see
all sorts of humans proclaiming to be guru..
Whats this land becoming of oh dasa
Due to time and circumstances since GBC do not accept performing the sacrifice by a ritvik and the disciple is Srila Prabhupadas….I see no reason that the the remainder intelligent disciples of Srila Prabhupada who are able and qualified can develop an organized structure where some do act as ritvik since Srila Prabhupada said we can add more ritviks…there is no reason to stop it on the basis that initiation is there anyways (which is absolutely true). This does not mean we can neglect the fire sacrifice and make no endeavor to carry out this as he also directed…why neglect it?
Also I request you to elaborate further on how it is that a conditioned soul cannot know who is totally qualified on uttama adikari platform bona fide Guru?
Somehow us very fallen totally conditioned souls KNEW Srila Prabhupada was without question…so can you give scripture support saying we cannot know? If not, then can you give scripture support showing how the conditioned soul can understand who is bona fide (without a tinge of material conditioning) and who is not? I love your articles but sometimes I need some clearing up. I am assuming the answer will be Guru sadhu and sastra….but elaboration should also be there.
The actual definition of a third-class devotee, a neophyte devotee, who is above a conditioned soul, is that he can not differentiate between who is a devotee, who is envious and who is innocent. That differentiation is only possible for one who has reached the platform of madhyama-adhikari. So one has to be at least to the level of madhyama to differentiate these things.
As far as Srila Prabhupada who is really a true Vaisnava Acaraya, he is self-effulgent. A real Vaishanva acarya is effulgent like the sun rising in the morning. Everyone can see the sun in the morning [unless he is blind]. So everyone can see that Srila Prabhupada is a real Vaisnava Acaraya, because he is self-effulgent. And actually that is one of the qualities of a real Vaisnava Acarya, he is self-effulgent…
So anyone, even a conditioned soul, [except a totally envious blind person] can see the bona fide self effulgent Vaisnava Acaraya…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
mike from the Absolute Truth to Insanity
So I got this very long email of which many things I do not understand. What I heard was allot of dissatisfaction and probably allot of truth. Where is the solution in this writing of yours? Where do I go from here. There is only ISKCON near me with no other options. I appreciate the clarity and passion u bring now maybe u could supplement it with some choices and direction for the fledgling devotee’s such as me?
You have Srila Prabhupada. You need to take advantage of his association by reading his books and following the instructions you will find he is giving you as you read his books. ISKCON will not be able to help you become Krishna conscious as they have rejected Srila Prabhupada in so many ways. This Krishna consciousness can only flow down through the disciplic succession. If some organization like ISKCON decides to reject Srila Prabhupada who is the representative of the disciplic succession and through whom the Krishna consciousness is flowing to them through, then they have disconnected themselves from the Krishna consciousness. They have no access to it themselves and they can not distribute it to others. Therefore it is useless going to them to try and get from them something they do not have themselves.
The same thing also happened in the Gaudiya Matha after Srila Bhaktsiddhanta, Srila Prabhupada’s spiritual master, disappeared. They also rejected his instructions in regard to the guru issue and other issues and in so doing disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession and became a dead branch on the Caitanya Tree. ISKCON is now another dead branch which is not capable of producing any fruits and flowers. Of course it may still look like a branch of the tree and have some of the external trappings of ‘Krishna consciousness’ but the real substance of devotional service, love of God, you can not get from ISKCON because they do not have it themselves.
So surrender to Srila Prabhupada and hear from him, he is a pure devotee of Krishna and he can guide you properly.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare krishna prabhuji,
Prabhuji ,please can you tell me the sequence in which I must follow prabhupada’s books.I will be very thankful.
Your servant,
pranjul.
Read all the small books, then Bhagavad-gita, then Krsna Book, then Nectar of Devotion, then Nectar of Instruction, then Srimad-Bhagavatam, then Caitanya-caritamrta, then start again. We need to read all of Srila Prabhupada’s books many times. The more you read them the more Krishna will reveal Himself to you….
Hare krsna… All Gloria’s to Sri Guru Gouranga !!! All Gloria’s to jagad guru Srila Prabhupada !!!!!!
Prabhu Madhudvisa personally I find very enlighten your article ,keep do it I love it , I am devotee from 1977 my wife from 1973 and after many years to b devotee u need to look x the right asociacion and we can way to u send me your new article
It is great service to prabhupada !!!!! Prabhupada said if u keep pouring water to the milk get in one point the milk it no more milk, so it is great what u do it because u trying to keep concentrator the milk….
Great service and enlighten view of prabhupada thanks
Can u give me permission to publish some of u article in Spanish ,???????
Yes. You can publish some of my articles in Spanish.
Hari Krsna to all.My observation of what happens when the person in possession of real knowledge passes on is that his teachings and instructions are quickly compromised by envious and jealous people. It happens over and over again Thank you.
Hare Krishna Prabhu,
Thank you very much for sharing the current things which are happening in the ISKCON, I feel my self fortunate because I met with the community which is independent form the ISKCON and truly following the Srilla Prabhupad’s message.My question islike, are all the gurus currently in ISKCON are fraud? I mean the Hritiviks,who are claiming them self as a Guru or there are some true people still present there?
Your Humble Servant Ashish
Hare Krishna Ashish
ISKCON gurus have to be a fraud because they have to agree to be servants of the GBC, otherwise they will not be accepted as ISKCON gurus. Which makes them a fraud. They have to teach according to the current edicts of the GBC, not according to what Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita or the knowledge Srila Prabhupada has given us. The GBC change things and the ISKCON gurus must accept and follow these changes otherwise they are out… But actually Krishna consciousness does not change. It is eternal. And absolute, when you change it you loose it.
The ritviks are, as I have written, also lying trying to present their interpretation of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, which is also an incorrect interpretation.
What we all have to do is really surrender to Srila Prabhupada and really read his books and really follow all of his instructions, which is really not a very easy thing to do. In theory it is simple but the application can be somewhat difficult…
Of course there are ‘sincere’ people everywhere. Every fool will have ‘sincere’ followers who believe in him and who follow him. So ISKCON gurus have sincere followers for sure, but they are following people who are admittedly conditioned souls and a conditioned soul does not have the power to free another conditioned soul. The bound can not free the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. So they may be ‘sincere’ but that is not going to help. In the example I gave in this article the man who wanted to save the drowning man was also sincere. But he could not swim. So it was not possible for him to save the drowning man. So we have many examples of this. ‘Sincere’ gurus jumping into the water to save the drowning men, without even considering before they jump in that they can’t swim themselves… The result, as we have seen time, and time and time again, is not very nice, either for the guru or for his disciples…
Guru is easy if you are a pure devotee but impossible otherwise… Because people want to be guided how to become a pure devotee. If you are no a pure devotee you don’t know how to become a pure devotee and if you put yourself up as a guru then you are simply a cheater.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you Prabhu, I have one more question to ask, do we need to take initiation from Ritvik, I mean as they are giving initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupad,Unknowingly (They are claiming them self as a guru thats the different thing)?
Hare Krishna Ashish
It is a mistake to think you would take initiation from a ritvik. A ritvik does not give initiation. He is a priest who performs the initiation ceremony between Srila Prabhupada and the disciple. He has no permanent relationship with the disciple. It is like if you get married and a priest performs the ceremony, the marriage is between you and your wife, the priest has nothing to do with it. You are not marrying the priest, he is just performing the marriage ceremony.
The problem with the rtiviks saying they can give initiation on behalf of Srila Prabhupada is that Prabhupada did not give anyone except the 11 devotees he appointed as ritviks to initiate on his behalf this authorization and he gave teh GBC the authorization to add more ritviks as required.
So it is not that anyone can just announce that he is now a ritvik and now accepting disciples on Prabhupada’s behalf…
And initiation into Prabhupada’s ISKCON is not just a one day ceremony. It requires training and the training has to be provided. Initiation is the beginning of the disciples training. But if the ‘ritvik’ can not provide the training for the disciples he is initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada then how will the disciples develop properly.
So there are many flaws in the ritvik side also. The only thing that is really open to us at the moment is to directly associate with Srila Prabhupada personally through reading his books, listening to his recorded classes and conversations, reading his letters, watching the Prabhupada DVDs etc. Prabhupada has given us everything in his books and reaffirmed that in his classes and letters and conversations and films and videos. So we have full access to Srila Prabhupada and we should take full advantage of this and hear from Srila Prabhupada and surrender to him.
The official initiation ceremony is not very important, but it is essential that we have a bona fide, pure devotee, uttama-adhakri as our spiritual master… That is the main thing.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
This whole thing vexes me and has for a while. It seems like whenever any group comes close to god within a generation it’s become fragmented and looses it’s internal spirit.
After seeing happen over and over across countless expressions of the divine I’ve come to peace with it; it seems that this is a natural result of some sort. It reminds me of a wound, at first the blood rushes out and eventually platelets block the flow.
In the same way god’s divine love truly breaks into our reality, and is slowly covered up by the immune system of maya.
I don’t like this, but it seems to be the will of god. Almost like reality is structured (during this yuga anyway) to slow / stop the various entry points of the one.
So I’m torn, on one hand it’s terrible that true expressions of our love for the divine are being hindered; on the other it seems like this is the way things “should” be based on how reality is currently structured.
Like all things I embrace both sides of the paradox, at once happy that the divine has again come down to us, and happy the divine finds a way to conceal itself again. Not happy for me, but that the will of the divine is apparently done.
What do you think?
Hare Krishna Ed
This is the way of the material world of course. The whole material energy’s purpose is to cover the spiritual energy so that we can be fooled into thinking that we can be happy separately from Krishna. So without the guidance of a pure devotee of Krishna such spiritual organizations invariably end up perverting and covering the original teachings which they are supposed to be distributing.
Srila Bhaktsiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura said that after the empowered spiritual master disappears there is nothing that can be done to stop the ‘Putanans’ [demons] from taking over the pulpits. There are so many demons who want to take over the pulpits and become the gurus and be worshiped by the foolish followers… So we have now seen it happen with ISKCON unfortunately…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
“So I’m torn, on one hand it’s terrible that true expressions of our love for the divine are being hindered; on the other it seems like this is the way things “should” be based on how reality is currently structured. ”
How can expresssions of our true love for the primeval lord be hindered ? Krishna is the Parmatma, he is the most dearest person to us and he is “param dayal”, means he is full of mercy, for we are also as living entities or jivas very dearmost to him. He is eager for us to return to him, so you see in actuality there is nothing that can hinder our path to him if we love him truly. The hinderance is maya you have to remember that.
Me i’m from a brahmin family in india, since i was a kid i had witnessed various sort of puja, and many forms of them. But i never felt any sort of love then, it was until i read Bhagavad Gita as it is. The verses were so strong that it brought tears to my eyes, literally. This could be a sign of that divine love, cause from then on my focus has turned towards the inifinte, the ultimate truth, Krishna. I never met a guru. Here in my place almost everyone are entrapped in a uber materialistic world view. So i’m also very eager to meet an authentic guru.
Its also said that when the Divine Grace shines upon anyone, all the knot of maya opens up themselves and that person has the oppurtunity to meet an authentic guru.
Until that happens i try my best to follow the Vedas, the Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatam, and rejoice in the name of the lord, by chanting Hare Krishna.
Afterall Lord Krishna is the spiritual master of all…
Hare Krishna Manish
You met a real guru when you read Bhagavad-gita As It Is, you met His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Read all of his other books and get to know him better.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thanks for the confirmation. I can literally feel the words of Gita, in my heart when i read them. So i knew then that this must be a sign of something higher, something spiritual, form then on i started surrendering myself , the fruits of my deeds to Lord Krishna. Srila Prabhupada’s Two essay on Krishna who is the reservoir of pleasure and who is crazy contains some wonderful and short instructions on how to surrender oneself unto the Supreme self. That was really helpful.
Thanks
Hare Krishna…
Hare Krsna. My obeisances to you.
Please educate me on the following:
Let us assume that I am a liberated person. How are the “conditioned souls” test me and come to the conclusion that I am a liberated person?
I think NO conditioned soul can verify a liberated soul.
Hare Krishna Ravi
Of course there are some very obvious points. Like for example if you are addicted to material things then anyone can tell that you are a conditioned soul. If you are attached to the things that you get personal sense gratification from like sex or anything else for your personal pleasure then anyone can see you are a materialist. But there are also non-devotees in the guise of devotees who do appear to follow the regulative principles and make a show of chanting Hare Krishna. They are a more difficult to spot.
But generally speaking you are correct. No conditioned soul can determine if someone else is a conditioned soul or a liberated soul. A conditioned soul does not have the power to discriminate these things. Only when one reaches the platform of Madhyama-adhikari can he differentiate between a conditioned soul and a devotee and an envious person. So one has to first become at least a Madhyama-adhikari by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada. The thing is we all know Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna, an uttama-adhakari, a pure devotee on the topmost platform, so everyone can take shelter of Srila Prabhupada and hear from him and follow his instructions and make advancement in Krishna consciousness until he reaches the point of being at least a madhyama-adhikari where he can actually differentiate between a devotee, and envious person and an innocent person…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
hare Krishna.
All glories to our beloved Sri Srilaprabhupada.
Madhudvisa dasa Prabhu.thank you for the spiritual food that you send to all of our beloved Srila prabhupada devotees.
with respect your humble servant.
S.Damodara dasa.
hare Krishna.