ISKCON GBC approves Women Gurus…
At its annual meetings, ISKCON’s Governing Body Commission (GBC) discussed a core issue, the qualifications of guru. In a quiet, but radical move it was accepted that women could be gurus in ISKCON.
In the Vaisnava tradition, to which ISKCON belongs, the guru is a vital part of the spiritual life of the devotee.
In ISKCON’s history, a number of gurus have deviated from the high standards expected of them and this has caused much grief amongst their disciples and in the Society at large. Therefore it is not surprising that it is an issue that the GBC returns to often.
In what many will regard as a radical step, the GBC gave formal assent to women taking on the role of initiating guru.
Dear Madhudvisa dasa I know that you are quite busy and I do not want to bother you. I also myself work 6-days a week and do not have much time eather, But please if you could answer this question I would be very greatfull. How can the GBC appoint women gurus? Your servant Steve.
Dear Steve
Hare Krishna! please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
ISKCON’s guru system simply does not work. They have appointed so many gurus who have practically all turned out to be bogus. This has destroyed the lives of so many devotees searching after spiritual life who have been coerced to accept unqualified men as paramahamsas, pure devotees. These devotees have been convinced to take initiation from “ISKCON gurus”, to surrender to them and to serve them. We have seen it over and over again, these unqualified gurus — while completely unable to deliver the real seed of devotion to their disciples — are very expert at taking service from their disciples. These “ISKCON gurus” accept service on the premise that they are pure devotees, liberated souls capable of delivering their disciples from the blazing fire of this material world (samsara davanala lidha loka…) But they are unable to pour the waters of mercy on their disciples like the rain which extinguishes the forest fire. They are simply incapable of performing the task the guru has to perform. That is to plant the seed of devotion, the bhakti-lata bija, within the hearts of their disciples, and then to cultivate that tiny sprouting creeper of devotion until it becomes a fully-grown healthy plant producing flowers, fruits and seeds.
So the current guru system in ISKCON has failed and the GBC more or less accept it has failed, they are always looking for some way to “fix” their guru sustem but refuse to accept the only sollution — take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. So this recent GBC resolution stating ISKCON will now introduce women gurus is meaningless noise. They do not have any guru-tattva, they do not have any qualified gurus, they have no idea about guru at all. So we can take it as the mutterings of crazy men. We can not take ISKCON very seriously on anything unfortunately.
The reality is a real Vaisnava guru is very rare, and he is self-effulgent like the Sun. As it is not difficult to spot the Sun in the sky — the Sun is self-effulgent — everyone can see the Sun immediately. Similarly a real Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent like the Sun. No one has to point him out, he does not require “authorization” from the GBC. Actually if a “guru” feels he needs to work under the authority of the GBC then we can understand immediately he is bogus. A real spiritual master does not work under any such eclestical body. He has his relationship with his guru and he works under the authority of his guru. He has to have the freedom to instruct his disciples as he sees fit. He can not work in a system where he does not have the ultimate authority over his disciples. The disciple has to surrender to his spiritual master and follow his instructions as his life and soul, and the spiritual master has to be a pure devotee, a paramahamsa and he has to have full authority over his disciples and must be able to instruct them as their absolute authority. That is the system from the beginning of time and it will never change. ISKCON’s GBC have styled themselves as the “guru police.” They have taken it as their business to approve and suspend “gurus” as they so choose and according to their politics of the day.
No real guru would put himself under the authority of such a political body. He can not put himself in a position where he may be prevented from giving good instruction to his disciples.
This may well happen in ISKCON if a guru’s instruction to his disciples was not in line with some of the politics of the GBC. In such a case the GBC could take away the “gurus” “badge” and take his disciples away.
No bona fide guru could work in such a situation.
So you can know it for absolutely sure that there are no qualified gurus in ISKCON.
This idea of ISKCON appointing women gurus is simply a joke. They have never succeeded in appointing even one bona fide guru, and they never will, because gurus are not appointed… No disciple in ISKCON has been properly initiated since 1977 and as we can very plainly see the whole organization has collapsed into a dysfunctional mess. Now they are adding women “gurus”…
The underlying idea is that the GBC think they can “make” gurus by taking some women and giving her a “guru badge.” But surely they have seen this does not work with all the “guru badges” they have issued to men over many years. A guru is not appointed by the GBC. A Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent…
So the GBC can not make gurus. All they can do is wait for self-effulgent gurus to appear — and of course they will not accept him — because he will not agree to be under the authority of the GBC… A real guru is very rare. And we are very fortunate to have the “gold standard” with Srila Prabhupada and we have so much access to Srila Prabhupada through his books and his vani (instructions) in the form of audio and video recordings. So we can take advantage of the association and instructions of Srila Prabhupada and serve him.
If a self effulgent guru appears that is nice. And really it does not matter, man or women, we are not the body. However, a spirit soul in the body of a women should act in such a way that other spirit souls in women’s bodies, if they follow her example, will advance spiritually. So the good qualities for a women are chastity, submission to her husband, shyness, etc. So a Vaisnava lady will not push herself forward to become a guru as we understand it. Such a thing is unheard of in the entire tradition of Gaudia Vaisnavism. There is no example of this in the past.
“As a man must follow great personalities like Brahma and Narada, a woman must follow the path of such ideal women as Sita, Mandodari and Draupadi. By staying chaste and faithful to her husband, a woman enriches herself with supernatural power.”
So it is not at all appropriate for a women to push herself forward and try to lord it over the sannyasis and brahmacaris for example. It would turn the whole social system upside down and simply create a great disturbance. Rather a pure devotee in a women’s body will act as a guru but in the role of a women. One can read the “Teachings of Queen Kunti” to see the great prayers of a great Vaisnava in the body of a women.
So overall, don’t take any notice of the crazy mutterings emanating from ISKCON, rather take shelter of Srila Prabhupada by reading his books and all the real knowledge will be revealed to you.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
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Urmila mata would make a good guru and
I would, in another time, take instruction from her. Male gurus should not have female disciples and women require different counseling. Just plain commonsense. Hare Krishna.
You don’t understand what guru is. I suggest you read Srila Prabhupada’s books and find out.
Hare Krishna Prabhu
PAMHO
All glories to srila prabhupada
If we say all ISKCON gurus are bogus then aren’t we questioning prabhupada’s ability to make pure devotees? As only a pure devotee can become a bonafide guru.
I have no intention to offend you. I am just asking.
Ys
Arikith Roy Chowdhury
You misunderstand.
No one can become a pure devotee without a pure devotee as his spiritual master.
Srila Prabhupada is the topmost qualified pure devotee of Krishna. But even Srila Prabhupada, even Krishna Himself, can not “make” pure devotees.
You do not understand what a pure devotee is. Devotee is surrender to Krishna, and this is possible only by surrendering to Krishna’s pure devotee. So surrender is something only the devotee can do. It is not something that Krishna or the spiritual master can “make” the devotee do.
So Prabhupada is giving us all the absolute truth and begging us to surrender to Krishna, but we refuse to surrender to Krishna. That is our disease, that is the disease of the material world.
So the reality is almost no one surrenders. That is why, sa mahatma sudurlabha, “Such a great soul is very, very rare.”
So actually it is very, very rare to find a pure devotee, a bonafide guru, but ISKCON has made it very common. So ISKCON are cheating. They are presenting conditioned souls as gurus, but a conditioned soul can not be a spiritual master.
So the ISKCON guru system is totally corrupted, totally bogus, and you will never find a bona fide spiritual master in today’s ISCKCON. If somehow there was a bona fide spiritual master in ISKCON they would drive him out very quickly.
So there is no question of anyone, including Krishna, “making” someone a pure devotee. Krishna is presenting the knowledge in Bhagavad-gita, “Surrender to Me.” And Prabhupada is begging us, “Surrender to Krishna,” but we refuse to surrender.
So it is in our hands. We can choose to surrender to Srila Prabhupada and surrender to Krishna, but we don’t want to do that. That is our disease, that is ISKCON’s disease, that is the disease of everyone in the material world.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa prabhu ,
By Your Grace finally i’m going to start cooking and offer to Srila Prabhupada . My parents agreed to construct small Kitchen (2nd kitchen) in my own bedroom , so i can cook without interfering in between them .
So i want to ask one question , Should i storage all the raw material (rice ,flour ,pulses ,spices etc) in separate container ??? or Can i just get whatever needed to cook from our main Kitchen stock containers ???
and getting new utensils for prasadam as they cooking using onion and garlic , just have doubt regarding raw material usage . HARIBOL !!!!!!!!!
Hare Krishna Vishvesh Prabhu
Very good news Prabhu. You don’t need separate stocks of the raw materials.
From the moment that a woman WANTS to be Guru, she cannot be; a truly high mataji would never accept to be Guru. Because she knows that, according to the Sastras, women are INFERIOR TO MEN.
>> (S.B. – 6-18-33 and 34) – PATI-GURU -.
For the woman, the supreme demigod, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the husband, Lord Vāsudeva, the husband of the goddess of fortune. “Pati-guru”, that is, spiritual master-husband. The husband represents the Lord as an object of worship for the woman.
You mean to say Radha Rani is inferior to Krishna. My obeisances. Their is nothing inferior superior. It’s only outer dressing.
So… we are not this body… but a woman is her body? I do not think you can have it both ways.
Of course, we are not the bodies. So on the spiritual platform there is no difference between a man and a women. But in reality, of course, in the material world, it is very rare to find anyone who is not on the material platform. Although we are not the body, still the bodies are different, and different bodies have different abilities and strengths and weaknesses. An ant is also not the body, an ant is not different from you or me spiritually. But clearly the body of the ant causes him to interact with the material world in a different way and gives him a different set of abilities to a spirit soul in a human body. Similarly a man’s body is different form a woman’s body. Both types of bodies provide a different set of abilities. So the Vedic system is based on the principle of engaging everyone in service according to their abilities and qualities.
So a woman is not her body, but because she is in a woman’s body at the moment that body provides her with a certain set of abilities that mean she will be very successful in certain activities, whereas other activities, she will find quite difficult compared to if she was in a man’s body.
So the point is not that the spirt soul in a woman’s body is different from the spirit soul in a man’s body, she is a different individual living entity of course, but the quality is the same. The same spirit soul who is in a woman’s body now can take a man’s body in her next life. So the soul is not male or female in the way we see material bodies as male and female. However, as the spirit soul in an ant’s body has a certain set of abilities, because of the facilities the ant’s body provides him to interact with the material word, so also a spirit soul in a man’s body has a certain set of abilities and a spirit soul in a woman’s body has a different set of abilities.
So for society to function in the proper way these different abilities of a man’s body and a woman’s body have to be recognized. Not that there is any difference at all on the spiritual platform. But the reality is hardly anyone is on the spiritual platform, so we have to live in the material world in such a way that gradually the whole society will become spiritually elevated, and to achieve this, it is essential to recognize there are different types of people with different abilities and strengths, not just man and woman, but also brahmana, ksatrya, vaisha and sudra. For society to function properly the abilities of everyone have to be acknowledged and everyone needs to be engaged according to their abilities. Not that everyone is the same. This is called Varnasrama-dharma, you can study it to understand it more.
Hare Krishna!
Dandavat Pranam to all the devotees
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Unfortunately, ISKCON is finished now as said by Madhudvisa Prabhu in his articles and comments. I have always believed Madhudvisa Prabhu and in last three days I have seen it practically as I had to go to one ISKCON centre to do japa. The so-called devotees there can be seen talking on mobile phones much more than chanting Hare Krishna. Most of them mostly only show that they are doing japa. In the temple, many people come to sing sahajiya songs and those sung in Bhagavata-saptaha in India. The so-called devotees are absolutely body conscious. There is no prasadam in the temple as it is not being offered to Srila Prabhupada first. Only reason I went there to japa is the place is peaceful enough to do japa and there are Deities of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and one can offer obeisances unto Them and have the darshan of Their Lordships. So it is useless even to talk about current ISKCON now. I’m posting this just to warn everyone who reads it to stay away from ISKCON. Please increase your attachment with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books.
Yes. But there’s not much point talking about how ISKCON has failed. We have to try instead to do some practical thing to help the people get Prabhupada’s books, hear the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra from the lips of pure devotees and get the chance to relish real Krsna Prasadam, etc…
Hare Krishna Prabhu
Yes Prabhu! This is what is my aim in life now. To become a pure devotee of Lord Krishna by distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books, letting everyone hear the chanting of Hare Krishna mantra and distribute real Krishna prasadam.
This article was published in the second half of January. Did the GBC actually make this decision at that time, i.e., is it a DONE DEAL? Or was it a proposal? Did it not wait until now (the third week of March) at the Mayapur Annual Meeting in order to formalize such a proposal (or decision)? Kindly provide, as soon as practical, an update as to whether or not the GBC has now, at its Annual Meeting, given its imprimatur for female members of the institution it controls to wait in queue in order to receive the Certificate of No Objection? Is it cent-per-cent a fact that women can now become regular gurus in the institution, i.e., that they can become diksha-gurus previous to reaching uttama-adhikari?
This is actually an old article. A few years old. There is a feminist faction in ISKCON always pushing for women gurus, women sannyasis, etc, etc… I do not follow what ISKCON is doing. So I have no idea how far down the path they have gone with this yet…
Hare krsna if the sucession is contaminated then devotees will become inhuman and demonic there are no system to deal with concerns .
Succession is not contaminated. Srila Prabhupada is living in his original books. Get them from:
https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html
Totally 100% pure and uncontaminated Prabhupada.
Stay away from contaminated ISKCON, take shelter of Srila Prabhupada in his pure original books.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krsna Prabhu!
It is good to know that someone like you is still carrying out Srila Prabhupada’s original work. How can I associate with you? I mean personally. Do you visit India? If so, let me know any such plans. I would be very delighted.
You can not associate with me personally, that is not my purpose.
My purpose is to convince you that Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna and that Srila Prabhupada is still living in his transcendental books and that you please get all of Srila Prabhupada’s original books from:
https://krishnastore.com
AND READ THEM AND follow the personal instructions Srila Prabhupada gives you as you read his books.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy
Madhudvisa dasa
Which women are recognized as Gurus?
So far none as far as I know. You would have to ask ISKCON this for a definitive answer, not me, I am not part of ISKCON.
Hare Krishna Prabhu though last part of your write-up regarding woman gurus is quite understandable.But their is self contradicting substance regarding working of GBC. At one part you are saying shelter of Prabhupad is priority.On the other hand you are mentioning complete freedom of Guru in his teachings as he wills. The GBC is presiding over the GURU system just to make shore that priority of Prabhpada teachings is maintained and the GURU in Iskcon is abiding in maintaining this primary function.If GURU is having total independence regarding his preaching then whole purpose of maintaining Prabhupda as founder acharya and siksha GURU of all will be defeated.
Hare Krishna Vinaik
Prabhupada is the guru of ISKCON. So there is no room in ISKCON for other gurus. If someone is actually qualified guru then let him start his own preaching mission. That is the way since time immemorial. Guru has his own preaching mission. Guru is supposed to be a pure devotee of Krishna, supposed to be non-different from Krishna, supposed to be a transparent via-medium to Krishna, so if someone is actually a qualified guru then he is to be worshiped on the same level as Krishna. He can not be limited or regulated by the GBC who are admittedly a committee of conditioned souls.
So this whole ISKCON system, GBC, gurus, etc, has degenerated into something quite different from the Krishna consciousness taught to us by Srila Prabhupada. Today’s ISKCON is totally bogus, the ‘gurus’ who submit themselves to this system are completely unqualified and even if they are qualified they would be unable to guide and deliver their disciples because the GBC would interfere with that.
So yes, by definition, bona fide guru is non-different from Krishna, transparent via-medium to Krishna, and not subject to rules and regulations imposed by any GBC or other group. Bona fide guru is connected to Krishna and he forms his disciples connection to Krishna. That’s it. There’s no room for any GBC or any other body to interfere with that.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna prabhu. Am i wrong doing by serving in ISKCON farm to be able to follow sadhana set by Srila Prabhupad?
I was out searching for community who know about the cheating of his disciples, but i failed and stopped following Srila Prabhupada consequently. Isn’t it better here?
Yes, you have to stay in the place where you can follow the regulative principles and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra and READ PPRABHUPADA’S books. If you know what Prabhupada is teaching us then you can test what devotees say and know if they are saying the correct things or not.
Hare Krsna! Is the Hare Krsna mahamantra effective only when you do find an initiating bona fide guru or not? Or even the female gurus? Prabhupada is our teacher, by reading his books. I didn’t think there were any bona-fide gurus that Prabhupada approved prior to his disappearance. Thank you! Haribol!
Yes. Any mantra has to be received from a bona fide spiritual master for it to be effective. Srila Prabhupada is a bona fide spiritual master, so receive the Hare Krishna mantra from him. You can not get the Hare Krishna mantra from someone who is not a pure devotee of Krishna because he does not have the Hare Krishna mantra himself. He can not give what he does not have.
Also one more thing…
Can you please tell me where can I find the original books written by prabhupada…. As I am in desperate need of it…. I have pdfs but I need to buy them since I can’t carry PDF everywhere and I like to read sleep with the Bhagavad Gita and that’s the only original hard copy that I have. Please help me. You are the only sane person I have found online for Krishna consciousness. And also I only use iskcon for Arati and to buy puja stuff otherwise I stay away. Like u said. Thankyou for letting us know that there are still some genuine devotees of lord Krishna out there.
Radhe Krishna.
Hare Krishna Shaily
You can get Srila Prabhupada’s original books at:
https://krishnastore.com/books-srila-prabhupada-om-21_38.html
@madhudvisa das,
Radhe Krishna,
Might I tell you and please don’t take it as an offence but neither do you have the opportunity to decide whether a woman can become a guru or not, not the iskcon.
Since as far as I remember prabhupada was appointed as the guru by lord Krishna so only Krishna has the authority to decide who will become a guru…. Mirabai might haven’t become a guru but she was certainly by people who knew her and we’re in contact with her.
Please don’t say unnecessary things here. I completely agree with your statement about GBC however I don’t agree with you on the fact that women can become gurus or not…. Since we are not the body and also gurumaa gargi was one of the famous gurus in a female body. Guru can only be a realized soul given the authority by lord Krishna himself. Therefore you and I have no business in deciding whether one can become a guru or not since like you said “we are not the body”.
Also I don’t know much about gadadhar dad swami of iskcon….. Is he following still prabhupada or chanakya Pandit? He is very male body friendly and also I understand that he is scared of women but nobody has given him the right to exploit women through humour by saying wrong things about them. He is generalizing women and that is against prabhpadas teachings. I hope you being in contact with iskcon or as ex member. I don’t know you well can say something about this to him. I think he thinks about women too much.
Has a woman ever broken his heart that bad that he is so much against women. Not all women are same and that is written in the Vedas too…. There are different types of women.
Besides no disrespect to chanakya Pandit but he was only a pandit or a vipra… I don’t think he was as great our guru srila prabhupada
Hare Krishna!
Yes. Guru is guru. And if guru appears in woman’s body then she is guru. Vaisnava guru is identified by his symptoms. He is able to spread Krishna consciousness and make disciples all over the world. When an actual Vaisnava guru is preaching he is very obvious. It is like the sun rising in the sky. It dispels the darkness everywhere.
So guru is guru. You can not make rules and regulations about it.
So the problem here is not that GBC wants to make women gurus, the point is GBC has no power to ‘make’ or ‘appoint’ gurus. Real guru is very rare and he appears by Krishna’s mercy and it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the GBC. So it does not matter what they say or do in regard to guru. They have no power in this area. The power is with Krishna and the pure devotees of Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Everyone who loves Krishna, has a little bit of Radha in their heart. Love is what sustains ‘bhakti’ and without ‘love’ , discipline is just a chore. Love has always been a feminine attribute of human nature.
While it is true that a bona fide Guru needs no GBC’s approval , it is also true that the flexibility shown by GBC in this matter is a landmark initiative.
I believe the supersoul is smiling broadly at this initiative.
so Iskon primary function should be to facilitate the gathering & meeting of devotees , sing bhajans and praise the Lord! nothing much nothing less ..like what dating sites do to singles.
Yes. ISKCON has become just like a dating site for Indians. You are correct. But that is not at all what Srila Prabhupada intended it to be. Today’s ISKCON is nothing like the ISKCON Srila Prabhupada established unfortunately.
When Srila Prabhupada began the Society (in New York City, in 1966), he put into writing the purposes he wanted it to achieve. They are as follows:
1. To systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life in order to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in the world.
2. To propagate a consciousness of Krsna, as it is revealed in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
3. To bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Krsna, the prime entity, thus developing the idea within the members, and humanity at large, that each soul is part and parcel of the quality of Godhead (Krsna).
4. To teach and encourage the sankirtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy names of God, as revealed in the teachings of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
5. To erect for the members and for society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the personality of Krsna.
6. To bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler, more natural way of life.
7. With a view toward achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, books, and other writings.
I am a new person and do not know much, but your words confuse me. If Srila Prabhupada created GBC, then why should we not accept his order as it is? Why and how can we question Srila Prabhupada’s decision and words?
Whether those gurus are bogus or genuine, who are we to decide?
Kindly enlighten,
Hare Krishna Vrinda
As a new person you have to be very careful. Every religious organization in the world is full of demons who take advantage of innocent fools who come to the religion and have no idea what spiritual life is. Demons are attracted to religious organizations because they want fame, profit, adoration and distinction and an easy way to get this is by posing as a religious leader. So this is an epidemic at the moment. Practically every religious leader, swami, guru, etc, is bogus. 100% totally bogus. They are in the ‘guru business’ for some personal benefit. And they have no power actually to liberate their disciples.
Sri Isopanisad describes these people who have accepted the “guru business” motivated by some personal desire as the greatest cheaters and the worst hellish planet is reserved for them. There is no greater sin, nothing more damaging to a person’s spiritual life, than being instructed by a bogus guru who is motivated by personal desires.
So when Srila Prabhupada created the GBC he did not intend it to become like it has become today.
Also Prabhupada created the GBC as a management body. They were supposed to organize the world-wide preaching. They are not gurus, they are not spiritual authorities. In ISKCON Srila Prabhupada is the spiritual authority and he is living in his books and we can take advantage of his instruction through his books. Today’s GBC however claim that times have changed and Prabhupada is no longer relevant and they have changed everything according to their own whims and desires. This is bogus. Prabhupada is not irrelevant as they claim. Srila Prabhupada’s teachings are timeless and still completely relevant today. But GBC regects the teachings of Prabhupada on all important points and just makes up their own concocted teachings.
So it is totally bogus and you should stay away from ISKCON.
Because Prabhupada created something does not mean it will stay good. The GBC did not even remain good in Prabhupada’s physical presence. They went so far off the track at one point that Prabhupada disbanded the GBC. So he established it yes, but it went off the rails, so he disbanded it. So what is this crazy idea you are saying? It is insanity. You have to look at what the GBC are doing. If they are following Prabhupada then that is good, but they are not following Prabhupada, so that is bad. Any fool can see that…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Siddhaswarup is instructing his disciple Tulsi Gabbard to promote abortion
Paramadvaiti getting massages by young woman.
Everywhere disciples of Kali Yuga
Dear Madhudvisa dasa. I want to become a vaisnava . Please guide me how I can give my soul to lord Krishna. Please guide me…
Radhe radhe
Hare Krishna Sheetal
Becoming a Vaisnava is a process. It is something like becoming an engineer. You can not just post a question on some website and expect a one paragraph reply on how to become an engineer. To become an engineer you have to study under the recognized authorities, you have to study the books, you have to pass the examinations, then you have to get employment and work as an engineer.
So to become a Vaisnava first you have to find a bona fide spiritual master, surrender to him and serve him. And the only person who can guide you how to become a Vaisnava is a pure devotee of Krishna. If one is not a pure devotee of Krishna he does not have the potency to help anyone else become a Vaisnava.
So the biggest stumbling block for the spiritual seekers at this time is there are millions of bogus gurus. Every street corner you will find a bogus guru promising to make you a Vaisnava. It is a business, they are making good money from it. But you will not become a Vaisnava in this way.
You need to take instruction from, surrender to and serve a real pure devotee of Krishna. So I suggest you read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day, chant the Hare Krishna mantra at least 16 rounds a day and strictly follow the four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication.
These are the minimum standards one who wants to become a Vaisnava must accept and surrender to. If you are not prepared to follow these principles strictly, read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day then you are not going to become a Vaisnava.
Vaisnava is not a cheap thing. It requires actual surrender and service at the lotus feet of a real pure devotee of Krishna. Otherwise it is not possible to become a Vaisnava.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Yes,perhaps animals could become gurus…to teach something modern to the GBCs…guru-dogs,cats-gurus and many kanguroos…
of course males and females…it does not matter…guru is guru…and
very often kuru…like the blind king…blind leading blind…what a future!
Hare Krishna Varna Prabhu
Guru means teacher so in some respects we may be able to learn things from animals. But animal by definition has no higher spiritual consciousness. So animal can not become spiritual guru. Because his consciousness is animalistic.
In the human form of life the women are less intelligent and do not have the intelligence to understand things form a philosophical point of view. So it is not that they can not be very pure devotees of Krishna, actually the simple mentality of a woman is very conducive to surrendering to Krishna and serving Krishna. Women have a natural instinct to surrender to God and serve Him. So they are very qualified to become pure devotees of Krishna. But there intelligence is small so they can not understand the philosophy very deeply or explain the philosophy very well. Which is no problem for becoming a pure devotee. Because understanding the philosophy has nothing to do with becoming a devotee really. What matters is one has to actually surrender to Krishna, serve Krishna and reestablish his dormant love for Krishna.
The gopis in Vrindavan were the greatest devotees but they did not know philosophy. They did not even know that Krishna was God. The only knew that Krishna was their beautiful friend. But these simple women were worshiped by Lord Caitanya as the greatest devotees.
But Guru, bona fide spiritual master, has to be expert in explaining the philosophy of Krishna consciousness, and a woman can not do this generally. Women are not philosophically minded. And it is not the position of a woman to become the leader of men. A woman’s position is to serve her husband.
All the problems of modern society stem from the ‘woman’s liberation’ movement. Women should never be free, they need to be always protected. In her childhood she is protected by her father, in her young ages she is protected by her husband and in her old age she is protected by her grown sons. So woman’s position is to always be subordinate to man.
We have to recognize and reestablish these practical things if there is going to be any form of civilized society on this planet.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
SB 12.3.33 — The brahmacārīs will fail to execute their vows and become generally unclean, the householders will become beggars, the vānaprasthas will live in the villages, and the sannyāsīs will become greedy for wealth.
SB 12.3.38 — Uncultured men will accept charity on behalf of the Lord and will earn their livelihood by making a show of austerity and wearing a mendicant’s dress. Those who know nothing about religion will mount a high seat and presume to speak on religious principles.
-srimad bhagavatam is only guru we can fully trust.
-there is nothing beside him you ever need for self realisation and bhakty.
Hari Om Tat Sat !
Its good news!. Iskcon go back to our great tradition : sadhvis guru in Gaudiya Tradition. In Our Gaudiya Tradition we have a ” female” guru. But in Our tradition we are not men , women , animal, trees- we are a SOUL. and IF GURU ARE IN KRSHNA CONSOCNES ITS IS THE BEST WAY. SHE OR HE OR IT MUST BE IN KRSHNA CONSOCNEC. Its is diferent stage from ” varnaashram dharm” its JAIVA DHARMA’ . we must be bhaktas. no dualistic person like mayavadins.
keep go on our old vedic tradiction.
ps. in Vedas , and all texts we can find female sadhvis, gurus, and all types of position and roles. not like in 16 century west bengal. Pls read vedic texts more carefull. Pranam. Hari Om Tat Sat!
Prabhu
PAMHO, All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
It is a nice explanation to the query on Guru\’s. It is very true that spirit soul in its purest desire.. want to serve Supreme Lore Krishna. Based on their desire they are put in different bodies to enable them to server in that capacity. Spirit soul\’s responsibility in women body is explained in scriptures as you outlined.
I wish these teachings are adapted by all the people.
Wonderful reply from you .. Thank you
Dear M Das, please share your opinion of the likely consequences of women appointed initiating gurus. In this Kali Yug, nothing can be ruled out. Will she able to handle relationships with her male disciples? What will be the mentality of women gurus? Please send your reply as soon as possible.
It makes no difference, man or woman. No one is appointed as a guru. That is impossible. The only way one can become a Vaisnava guru is by actually becoming a Vaisnava guru by quality. This idea that people can be made into gurus by being appointed by the GBC is totally bogus. It has failed every time with the hundreds of men that the GBC have already tried to turn into gurus. It will also always fail if they try to turn women into gurus in this bogus way.
This is not guru. Appointed guru. This to bogus rubbish. You can not find a bona fide guru in ISKCON, either man or woman, because the whole movement has rejected Srila Prabhupada and has gone off in a different direction to Srila Prabhupada. So they have disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession, disconnected themselves from Krishna. So it is just a mundane religion with no spiritual potency at all. It is all useless.
Of course woman is not meant for guru in this way. For the sanctity and sanity of the society woman have to act as woman and men have to act as men. Of course we are not these bodies and on the spiritual platform there is no difference. But if the society is to function at all these distinctions between the roles of men and woman in society have to be respected. Otherwise the result is the total chaos that we see in today’s ‘modern’ society. It is hell. Total hell. And that has been created to a large extent by these feminists rejecting the natural role of women.
Krishna consciousness means to reestablish the traditional Vedic way of life. And that is centered around every man considering every other woman except his wife as his mother and the women being chaste, submissive to their husbands, shy. This idea of woman’s liberation and woman being equal to men is not the Vedic way. And this is not possible in any sane society. In any sane society women can not be given independence. At every stage of her life a woman has to be protected. In her youth she is protected by her father, when she gets married she is protected by her husband and in her old age she is protected by her grown sons. So at no stage in her life is a woman independent.
So these ideas are just stupid bogus ideas from the American feminists. They have no place in Krishna consciousness.
So please read Srila Prabhupada’s books and hear the real thing from a real pure devotee of Krishna. That will be very beneficial thing for you. And stay away from ISKCON. That is poison and will destroy your spiritual life.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
It doesn`t surpriese the falldown of Rohini Suta. Unfortunately, I was part of his Sankirtan-group in Switzerland, when he still was bramachary. A cool-bloded, perverted, vindictive, sneaky and, above all, dark poor and ignorant soul who didn´t understood anything in his live.
This is so monumental. I understand many do not approve but as a western woman who has had great difficulty with western men (abusive, including father), taking a male guru is very emotionally and psychologically unappealing (scary). If I had been raised with devotees, it would be different. For those of us who come later in life or with bad experiences with non-KC men, this will help us get on the path. If I am lucky, I will be able to go back home, back to Godhead. If it is too late this life time, perhaps I can come back in a devotee family and be a proper female devotee.
You misunderstand the point Carolyn
Krishna consciousness is not something that is on the bodily concept of life.
A guru is not something that can be rubber-stamped like the Catholic Church does with priests.
A guru has to be actually qualified as a guru.
A guru is a guru and does not need any authorization. He [or she], if he is actually a real empowered spiritual personality, will automatically awaken the transcendental consciousness within the hearts of the people he/she associates with.
So this whole argument is nonsense.
The whole ISKCON idea about guru is nonsense. ISKCON’s mail gurus are nonsense, a total failure. Their whole idea of guru is wrong, so you can not build on an incorrect system and try to add women gurus to the same broken system and expect anything other than even more disaster.
The idea of guru is to show by their personal example to others the way one should live which will help them become Krishna conscious themselves. So although we are not these material bodies and for an actual pure devotee, he has no bodily identification, so he does not consider the condition of his body as male or female at all. It is irrelevant actually for a pure devotee. But from a preaching point of view, one has to consider how he will act so that his actions will give a good example for others to follow.
Of course there is a great war against men at the moment and so many women, like yourself are against men and do not want anything to do with men. But this is an unnatural position and from the material point of view you will live a very unfulfilled life in this way. Actually the natural way is a woman needs protection and a man is naturally in the position to protect and provide for a woman and a woman is in the natural position to serve a man. This is the natural way. This is the way it has always been in the human society before the 60s.
So this ‘women’s liberation’, ‘feminism’, etc, which you seem to be a supporter of, is a totally unnatural system that has completely destroyed the whole structure of the society on this planet over the past 50+ years. It is a disaster. It has caused the women to act in a way in which they are no longer attractive to men and has caused a huge percentage of the men to have no interest in the women except to exploit them for sex. So it has been a disaster.
No man wants a woman who wants to compete with him, who wants to be his boss, who wants to be his guru. That is of course a material, not spiritual concept, but it is the reality. A man has the natural position to be in charge and the woman has the natural position to serve her husband. If we are to live in material world with any sort of peace and happiness we have to accept these natural divisions between men and women and act accordingly.
So a pure devotee in a man’s body and in a woman’s body will act differently in accordance with the body they are in to give the good example to others as to how a spirit soul in that type of body should act to make spiritual advancement.
And for a woman to make spiritual advancement she needs to be married to and to nicely serve a devotee husband. That example is the best example a woman guru can give.
So this is just the way. Your anti-male, feminist, women’s lib ideas are all nonsense. And men were not exploiting women like they are today on such a scale as they are now before this nonsense women’s lib movement. So the women have to take a lot of the responsibility for the way they are treated today by the men.
You are trying to act as a man in a woman’s body. That will not work. A man’s body is different to a woman’s body. So we have to accept this and act accordingly. Unless this mistake can be corrected there is no hope for any sane life in the material world for anyone…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
that is not true, ISKCON GBC did NOT approve women gurus, this whole article is a lie, do some research, before critisizing
The GBC have actually voted and approved of the idea of women gurus in ISKCON twice but both times, due to many complaints from so many devotees, they have not actually implemented this program yet. But the feminists in ISKCON are still pushing for this program of woman gurus, women sannyasis, womens equality with men, etc, etc, etc. But there is a big fight going on in ISKCON around this issue of course. A lot of members do not want to surrender to the feminist ‘devotee’ demands. But these liberated ladies will fight on of course…
prabhupad is not dependent on Gita “distribution”!
Hare Krsna. Srila Prabhupada is the only Guru in Iskcon as He never appointed any successor But only ritviks which can be added further. Read July 9 th letter by SP.
Also he says that whichever ritvik is near to you you take initiation from him on my behalf. If it’s the matter of spiritual master diksha; then why only Prabhupada will consider a silly distance near or far factor. So it’s 100% sure that He never appointed any Guru as it is not so cheap thing because those who are the residence of goloka can only become spiritual master.reference-
“Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance […]So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krsnaloka” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)
Also he says Guru never falls down.
So after all such references and seeing practically the cases of fallen so called gur if one doesn’t realize; that Srila Prabhupada never died and always living in His books to guide us personally; is in ignorance and needs to be corrected otherwise his/her spiritual life is in greatest danger.
Ys
Hare Krishna Dandvat Pranaam to all !!
I met devotees who have accepted Srila Prabhupad as Guru and are taking Ritvik Initiation as per Srila Prabhupad’s July 9th 1977 letter …knows as Prabhupadanugas and Iam also observing disciples of current ISKCON guru’s. I found few from Prabhupadanugas also having politics,devotee co-operation not as per Srila Prabhupad’s instructions. At the same time, devotee co-operation in ISKCON may be better than Prabhupadanugas, also preaching reached to more number of youth and families compared to Prabhupadanugas. Can somebody guide with whom i should associate because we need devotee association….Iam struggling since last 7 years. Also my son , he needs Gurukula education as per Srila Prabhupad’s instruction to save him from the bad association and slaughterhouse education/culture from Karmi schools.
Agreed. Thank you.
In all holy places peoples make gurus traditionally .They pay x gold coins & approach guru on ekadashi about how to live life of a devotee .This is a great secret which lord krishna is speaking in B.Geeta .Krishna has not given any answer to question of Arjuna ,in geeta, when he asks what is the .This knowledge is secret & it doesnt bind a person in Karmic reaction .If you are unable to find a person giving knowledge you simply give the same donations to deity & prey I will give this knowledge to any 1 who approaches me on ekadashi & pays me 108 ,rs .In holy places peoples eat ,sleep & speak in a totally different ways .
So in 1 iskcon temple in india 1 devotee approached a guru by paying him 108 rs on ekadashi .So this person had a servant who keeps doing -shuk shuk from behind when this person is listening from the guru .as soon as this person looked back the guru refused to give knowledge & then the person came out .
So he approached many peoples asking the same question how to live a life of a devotee .Every 1 would answer him in a very low voice & run away .Now all over the world peoples are accostomed to speaking face to face in an audible voice .So it was difficult for him to understand any thing .
So after some time 1 person was having knowledge of how to ask a question to a person in front of deity came to temple .If any 1 speak lie he incurs very bad consequences .In all the holy places peoples will tell you if you want to make money you have follow tantrashastra which involves breaking regulative principals & then giving charity to the service of lord. So the new person asked the swami do you not drink alcohol / do you not eat meat etc.& he confessed .Then sanyasi had kept a gunda to beat & drive out such peoples who knows the art of taking witness in front of deity .If you follow this procedure then the alter doesnt get closed .Deity acts as a witness .
So even after knowing the consequences of being exposed instead of calling the person & giving him knowledge in 108 rs this sanyasee started driving out the person with gundas .So this person gave this knowledge of how to take confession in front of deity to his other desciples ( Who were from brahmin communities in india ).
So they(Devotees from Brahmin community ) knew that simply by paying 108 rs they can beat this sanyasi on amavasya / take him on donkey procession & beat him with shoes etc .All these brahmin community devotees started beating him on amavasya night ,taking him on donkey procession & this is the beginning of rutvik philosophy being offered in 1998-2000 & then came harikesh swami’s unfortunate fall down .
And there is a process if a vaishnava do some thing in front of your door for x minutes ,then even if you are fast sleeping you will wake up & come out .This process you learn in details in holy places if you offer some donations .It cant be given on internet free.
So these devotees started harassing these sanyasis so much that this sanyasi was & is unable to sleep even today for 20 minutes .Day & night harrasment no way he can sleep .And then came bad news paper leakouts / publicity about Iskcon gurus ,so many court cases mud slinging etc .
Imagine some 1 tells you pay x gold coins & approach guru on ekadashi in soft voice & runs away after you ask him question of how to live a life of a devotee .What you will make out of this convercession . Also supreme personality of god head knows some devotees may not be in a position to pay so much money .So some simple basic things could be taught in 108 rs . This sanyasi refused to teach anything & then this unknown person opened the scam .
Mud slinging in news paper ,donkey processions ,beating with shoes on amavasya night , sleepless days & nights , character assacination & then came Harikesh’s unfortunate fall .. So this kind of small improper system of telling in soft voice & running away when some 1 asks you a question & not giving even small basic knowledge even after taking 108 rupees (after promising the lord I will give this knowledge to any 1 person who approach me with 108 rs ) has the beginning of Iskcon indias crises & IRs movement.
I dont know which HELL they are going to suffer after they depart from this world… if i would have been there in Yamaraja’s place i would have given them some low animals body for a million years to suffur, for what they all have been doing… they have NO shame at all.. tearting GURU(Srila Prabhupada) as an ordinary person.. no one ever can take his positions and what all plans they are making.. all Useless people…
Simply take shelter of Srila Prabhupada & Krishna and Be Happy..
Jai Srila Prabhupada..
what is nonsense going in the minds of these devotees,how can they think like that? These all r cheap ways to enjoy a woman.These fallen gurus r cheating to people and pushing them and even many devotees lives to hell.But this is not going to work.They will we cursed by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
ONLY SRILA PRABHUPADA IS THE REAL GURU !!!
THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT! THAT’S IT!
JAI SRILA PRABHUPADA!
Rohini Suta stuck his penis in His own as. Now he is finishing.
I am spiting on every step that Rohini Suta and Harikes Svamy steped on Slavian Countries. Two of them have been performing Nazis tic activity wile they have been visiting Slavian Countries with the years.
i like to take initiation wat is the process for this. pls tell me