Our Opinion on Homosexuality?
A devotee of Krishna does not try to satisfy his own senses, he tries to satisfy Krishna’s senses. We understand that Krishna is the source of everything and that everyone is part and parcel of Krishna, so if we satisfy Krishna everyone, including ourselves, will be satisfied.
> i just want your opinion about Homosexuality?
> Thanks John
Dear John
Hello, Hare Krishna!!
We do not have our own opinion, we have to present the knowledge as it is coming down from Krishna through our spiritual master His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
We have a rather revolutionary understanding, that is everything belongs to Krishna [God] and everything, including our bodies, should be used in the service of Krishna, for Krishna’s pleasure.
A devotee of Krishna does not try to satisfy his own senses, he tries to satisfy Krishna’s senses. We understand that Krishna is the source of everything and that everyone is part and parcel of Krishna, so if we satisfy Krishna everyone, including ourselves, will be satisfied. It is like watering a tree. If you want to nourish the whole tree, all the branches, leaves, flowers, etc., you simply supply water to the root of the tree and the entire tree is satisfied. So if we simply satisfy Krishna, the root of the entire creation, then everyone, including ourselves, will be satisfied.
On the other hand, if we try to satisfy ourselves without any connection with Krishna by sex and other things we will never actually be satisfied. This type of sense gratification is like putting fuel into a fire. The fire simply burns even more and requires even more fuel to maintain it… So having sex is not at all satisfying, one simply wants more and more sex and even if he gets it he is still not satisfied and the results are actually very bad. There are so many diseases and a man looses his energy, strength and determination if he looses too much semen.
Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita that He is sex according to religious principles. So that sex, within marriage for having a nice Krishna conscious child, is very good. But otherwise sex, be it homosexual or hetrosexual is simply meant for the pleasure of the senses of the people involved. It is not being done for the service and pleasure of Krishna. So it is not allowed in Krishna consciousness.
In Krishna consciousness sex is for having nice God conscious children and such sex is Krishna Himself and is very glorious. But other sex is illicit sex and it is prohibited for a devotee. At the time of initiation a devotee has to accept vows including “no illicit sex” which that means no sex except within marriage for having children. It seems to some to be an almost impossible task as we are so attached to sex and think it is so important… But a devotee experiences a higher taste, a greater pleasure. A devotee fully engaged in Krishna consciousness under the direction of a bona fide pure devotee spiritual master is constantly enjoying a greater pleasure than sex from serving Krishna. So for him sex is not a very important thing at all.
Of course the sex desire is very strong and many devotees have fallen down from spiritual life because of it. But even if there is a fall down one can continue seriously in Krishna consciousness and soon all the desires for sex will disappear and we will be floating in ocean of transcendental bliss that is Krishna consciousness….
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
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hare krishna prabhu
homosexuality is attraction to someone of the same gender. it can be romantic or sexual in nature. that does not mean same gender attracted devotees are sinful and will be thinking about sex! just that they are attracted to the same gender. they can have marriage without having illicit sex.
Rubbish. Everyone has friends of the same sex. We all have “mates”, “friends”, etc. And we are attached to them, we love them even, but that is friendship. That is not a sexual relationship. The term for a person having sex with someone of the same sex is homosexual. Homosexual is a word to describe a person who has sex with others of the same sex.
So of course some people have this tendency. And it is demonic. A demonic tendency. And for one wanting to make advancement in spiritual life, he has to give up all sexual relationships actually. As the physical sexual relationships bind one to the material world. And when one is bound to the material world there is no question of any spiritual advancement.
So the normal people also, they have to give up sex except for having children in marriage.
So giving up sex is for everyone who wants to make spiritual advancement.
And homosexual is a term which only describes someone who has sex with others of the same sex.
So we are not saying they can’t do it. Anyhow can do anything they want to. We have no power to tell anyone what they can or can’t do. However it is impossible to advance in Krishna consciousness while we are on the bodily platform. And this identification with the body, “my body is homosexual” that is an anchor that ties us to the material concept of life and inhibits us from making any spiritual advancement at all.
So there are no “homosexual” devotees. A “homosexual” is on the bodily platform, completely in materialistic consciousness, and unable to make any spiritual advancement.
We are in these bodies. And yes, the senses of our bodies may be in such a way that we are attracted to a certain type of person physically, mostly men are naturally attached to women and women are naturally attracted to men. That is normal. But there are some others of course. And that is a real physical attraction of course. But Krishna consciousness means we have to transcend the material platform and raise ourselves to the transcendental, spiritual platform.
So a devotee, even if he has some tendency, be it the normal one or some other one, sexual attraction, in all cases advancing in Krishna consciousness means conquering that sexual attraction. Of course for the normal people that means marriage. That is the proper way. To live a regulated life, even in married life, to only have sex for the purpose of having children.
So anyhow today we live in crazy times so the main thing is to chant Hare Krishna mantra at least 16 rounds a day, strictly follow the four regulative principles, that includes no illicit sex, and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day.
So as I said, we live in troubled times, and certainly our minds and senses will be troubled at times and we may fall down also at times due to bad association. But we have to continue with the process of Krishna consciousness.
But you have to give up this idea that you are the body. If you start with the idea that “I am my body and my body is homosexual…” then there is no question of any spiritual life at all whatsoever for you.
Sure your body may be made in that way. But you are not the body. And Krishna consciousness means transcending the bodily concept of life and coming to the spiritual platform by reestablishing our eternal loving relationship with Krishna. So we have to believe this, even if our bodies and our senses may be attracted physically to others of the same sex, we have to know that this is just a material thing, based on the material bodies only, and we have to transcend it.
So devotee knows he is not the body, he is not homosexual, because that is just an artifact of the particular body my spirit soul happens to be in at the moment. It is not something that is connected to me. It is something that is connected to my body only, and I have to transcend all these bodily designations.
So if you can’t comprehend this then just dance in the disco with your boyfriends. To come to Krishna consciousness we have to at least theoretically accept that we are not the material body and we are not the designations of the material body. That is a prerequisite.
Being gay is not about having sex
Being gay is defined as people who have sex with others of the same sex. Gay is a designation 100% based on the desire to have sex with others of the same sex.
No, you can be gay and sexless.
No you can’t. Gay is defined as a person who has sex with people of the same sex. The term gay only means sex. If you have a friend of the same sex and don’t have sex with you, he is just your friend. That is the term for a sexless relationship, “friend.”
So there is nothing at all barring devotees from having friendly relationships with others of the same sex. That is friend, godbrother. That is fine.
You have to understand, maybe you don’t understand, about Krishna consciousness. Not that we have anything against homosexuals, gay people. Sure, if you want to designate yourself as ‘gay’, fine. But all these bodily designations, they are incompatible with Krishna consciousness. Because Krishna consciousness means, the first thing, the first step, is to understand that we are not these material bodies, but that we are the spirit souls within the bodies.
So if anyone wants to become Krishna conscious he has to give up all material designations. He is thinking, as a devotee, simply, that “I am a servant of Krishna, let me engage in the service of Krishna.” And this is his eternal occupation. Not that his relationship with Krishna has anything to do with this material body. So that is the point. To become a devotee, the first thing, is we have to give up all these material bodily designations, and the designation ‘gay’ means someone who has sex with people of the same sex. So that designation, it is totally on the bodily concept of life. So if we keep these bodily designations, then we can’t transcend the bodily conception of life, we can’t become Krishna conscious.
So sure, be gay if you like, but you can’t be a “gay devotee”. That is a contradiction. Because it is saying that you are a devotee who has sex with people of the same sex. And in Krishna consciousness sex is prohibited. The only use of sex in Krishna consciousness is within marriage and even then sex is only permitted for having children.
So in Krishna consciousness any sex outside the regulated sex for having children in marriage is prohibited. So unless we are prepared to accept this, surrender to it, Krishna consciousness is impossible for us.
So “gay devotee” that is impossible. If one is a devotee he has to give up all these material concepts and come to the realization that he is not the material body but the spirit soul.
I am chanting 4 or 5 rounds for a year or so but cant experience any happiness. I am close to stopping for an indefinite period because I dont feel worthy to chant, I take intoxicants and illicit sex happens. I still feel the need for material connection and commit sins. Perhaps if I abandon chanting and improve my material situation I can later return to the chanting with more success? Hare Krishna , Jaya
No. There is no hope of pleasure in the material world. So just keep on chanting Hare Krishna and try to increase your chanting more and more and gradually you will find more pleasure in chanting Hare Krishna and will see the emptiness and hopelessness in sex and drugs and unlike the others who are in a very devastated position when this happens you will have Krishna and you can take shelter in Krishna more and more.
So my advice is always of course to chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly follow the four regulative principles and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day, but if you can not do this, then chanting Hare Krishna is the main thing, and if you keep on chanting Hare Krishna even if you can’t follow the other things there is still hope and you will be successful in the end. So no matter how hard it seems to be to chant Hare Krishna keep on chanting Hare Krishna and try to increase your chanting of Hare Krishna to at least 16 rounds a day. And you will see soon it will become easier to give up the intoxication and sex and you will not even want to do these things anymore, but that may take some time, in the mean time don’t stop chanting Hare Krishna.
Hi Pat,
I am a real neophyte practitioner of Bhakti yoga and have had and still have these struggles you talk of .
Couple of points come to mind . First ,Reading carefully and slowly Prabhupadas books will give you the strength of purpose for your efforts in Bhakti yoga .Thats a big one , if we don’t understand what we are doing or what’s on offer then why bother right?
Second point is even from a material point of view intoxication is pretty rubbish , hangovers, detoxing comedowns are no fun , but the major detriment to your chances at spiritual life is it erodes your DETERMINATION and ability to perform AUSTERITY. ( like chanting rounds)
Fourth you said you commit further sins from intoxication and that is likely as intoxication enlivens and agitates the senses for wanting further gratification .
Fifth association with other practitioners will help you find some people of like mind to associate with and perhaps you’ll be able to attain the strength to leave the intoxication behind .
I don’t know if it’s my place to comment but just some ideas .
Haribol
Hare Krishna,
So let’s say two men gets married and both of them are asexual,they do not indulge in any sexual activities,Can they be a part of Krishna conscious then? And you said that homosexual marriages are not Ok so my question is if in a homosexual marriage the two people do not have any sexual desire is it Ok then?
Homosexual means two people of the same sex who are sexually attracted to each other. So there is no such thing as an asexual homosexual.
You have to understand the point that Krishna consciousness means giving up the material bodily designations. That is a prerequisite for making any spiritual advancement at all. So all these bodily identifications like Homosexual, have to be given up before any advancement in Krishna consciousness is possible.
So the things are mutually exclusive. Krishna consciousness and homosexuality. Krishna consciousness means realizing we are not the material body but the spirit soul. Being homosexual means being completely immersed in the bodily conception of life. So we can not be homosexual and Krishna conscious at the same time. Being homosexual is a fallen condition, it means we have fallen into the bodily conception of life, and in that fallen condition Krishna consciousness is not possible. It is not just homosexuality, it is any sort of sexuality. If a man is madly in love with a woman and surrendered to that women then he can not be Krishna conscious either. He is completely in the bodily concept of life. So Krishna consciousness means getting off the bodily concept of life and reestablishing our original loving relationship with Krishna.
So you have to accept this, that is if you actually want to make any spiritual advancement at all. Homosexualiy is about sex, that is the definition of the word, and being captivated by sex destroys any spiritual advancement we are trying to make. The two things, sexuality and spirituality are mutually exclusive. If you are trying to cultivate your sexuality you will not be interested in cultivating your spiritual life and if you are cultivating your spiritual life you will not be interested in sexuality.
It doesn’t mean that we may not fall down and experience sexual desires, but we should know that in that condition we are fallen, we are not in Krishna consciousness, we are in maya, and we need to work to get ourselves out of the fallen condition of sexuality and get ourselves back into the spiritual consciousness of Krishna consciousness.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Does being heterosexual mean you are wanting snd needing to have sex w the opposite sex all the time in an unhealthy amount? No! Its just your preference. There are unhealthy sexual relations between all kinds of relationships. Homosexuality is just a matter of preference so yes, you can be a homosexual and not have a libido or remain abstinent from sex. Being a homosexual does not mean you are having unhealthy sex or even desire it.. so if all sex is bad, are all hare krishnas asexual? Are they just making themselves have sex to bare a child??? Hopefully they are having a healthy amnt of sex to strengthen their bond as a loving couple not just crank out a child! Sex is not bad in moderation from two willing parties. Anyhow,identifying as homosexual does not mean you have an insatiable thirst to have sex all the time and pleasure yourself!! Duh
Hi Casey. You don’t understand. It is nothing to do with homosexuality or hetrosexuality or healthy or unhealty sex. Try to understand. Devotees of Krishna don’t do anything for their own personal sense gratification. So sex, this is the topmost form of sense gratification in the material world. So sense gratification is the opposite to spiritual advancement. Therefore if we are engaged in sense gratification we will not be able to advance in spiritual life.
So it is just a fact, if we want to advance spiritually we have to give up this sense gratification. So sex for sense gratification has to be given up by all devotees, otherwise we can not make any advancement in Krishna consciousness. In Krishna consciousness the only purpose for sex is procreation, to create good Krishna conscious children. So even the married devotees, they are also not having sex except for the purpose of having children, and even then only once a month at the time when there is the best opportunity for pregnancy.
So it is impossible for a non-devotee to conceive how this could be possible. It is impossible for me to practically realize it also sometimes. But this is the fact, if we want to make advancement in Krishna consciousness we have to give up sense gratification.
On the other side, we have to engage our senses in practical service for Krishna under the direction of the spiritual master. So as a result of this constant engagement in Krishna consciousness, serving Krishna 24 hours a day under the direction of the spiritual master, we experience a transcendental pleasure that is so great it makes the so-called pleasure of sex seem insignificant, even distasteful.
So try to understand this is nothing particularly about homosexuality, it is about giving up material sense gratification to enable us to make advancement in spiritual life. And homosexuality is 100% sense gratification. In the case of sex between married couples, there is a purpose for it, it is service to Krishna, when it is used for the purpose of begetting a nice Krishna conscious child.
So that is the point. The purpose of sex is to have children. And that can be done within marriage according to the regulative principles. Means married couples can only have sex for the purpose of having children and then only once a month. So practically speaking that is no sex also. It is no sex for sense gratification, for everyone.
So the point is homosexuality is two men or two women coming together for sex, means 100% for sense gratification. So is is not something that any devotee will ever do.
But there is no bar for loving relationships between devotees, in fact Krishna consciousness is based on loving relationships between devotees. But the purpose of the loving relationships between devotees is to cooperate together to serve Krishna. So together they serve Krishna and they certainly also have loving relationships between them, but the central point is serving Krishna. So there is no sex. And there is no desire for sex also, as long as they can stay 100% engaged in serving Krishna 24 hours a day.
So you know, it is a difficult thing for many of us, because we have these material bodies, designed for sex, but if we want to become Krishna conscious then we have to force ourselves not to have sex except in marriage for the purpose of having Krishna conscious children. And at the same time we can engage in serving Krishna 24 hours a day under the direction of a pure devotee of Krishna. The result will be fabulous. Our consciousness will be purified and elevated and we will be on the transcendental platform enjoying spiritual bliss so much better, in a completely different category from the so-called pleasure of sex.
There is no pleasure in sex actually, of course maybe for a moment, but that moment passes very quickly… And we are again unsatisfied. So it is pointless. There is no way to become satisfied by any sort of material “pleasure”. Because everything in the material world is temporary, but we, the spirit soul, we are eternal. So we are hankering for eternal pleasure, that can not be provided by anything in the material world…
So…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you for presenting pure truth with the mood of a disciple. A disciple represents guru and Krishna and places the teachings of guru and Krishna before any “personal opinion” he or she might have. “Personal opinion,” opinion that is not guided by guru and Krishna is nothing but false ego. I don’t find it easy nowadays to get to hear from a devotee who speaks with the mood of a disciple, so your words bring solace to a heart that often feels violated by hearing from devotees who filter pure truth through the considerations of their own false egos.
Hare Krishna
My name is Shubhi. I’m 16 years old and I am a Vaishnav and Brahman by birth. I have always admired Radhe Krishna. Through everything I have ever been, Radhe Krishna have been there for me and my family. As far as I know myself, I am spiritual for I am aware and mindful, and religious for I believe in Radhe Krishna (and other deities but I never felt as close to them as I do to Krishna). I like visiting temples, like Prem mandir in Vrindavan and ISCKON temples. I spent my last birthday reading and chanting Bhagavad Gita in ISCKON temple in my locality. The worse thing that can ever happen to me is being told that my God doesn’t accept me.
I fear that because, I also identify as pansexual. It is possible for me to be attracted to people of any gender identity romantically and/or sexually and spiritually.
I don’t think that it is all about their physical form. God has created wonderful people in this world. I admire them. I am not hypersexual. Why do people hate such pure form of love that doesn’t see physical form? Why does the human agenda float around procreation?
I know I have self control in every aspect of my life. I also know that happiness is not external. And somewhere, I also know that Krishna doesn’t hate me. He knows I am strong, kind and modest. Why would he hate me? I never did anything wrong or lost control over my senses. I believe in growth and experience. Atlast, I am a child. His child. And I will leave the world in that form only. Everytime I think about Radhe Krishna, it does not bring me the feeling of shame, fear, guilt or hatred; It only brings the feeling of calm, peace and love.
I read about the views of Bhakti Vedanta Swami Prabhupada on women and homosexuality. I disagree with it.
Will Bhagvatism accept me?
We can not disagree with Srila Prabhupada or Krishna. Krishna consciousness means surrender. It means we have to first admit we are not perfect and to become perfect we have to find someone who is perfect and surrender to them and serve them. That means we have to be able to discard our own wrong opinions about things and accept the correct opinions as they are give by Krishna and handed down to us in the bona fide disciplic succession. So if we want to make any advancement in spiritual life at all we have to be prepared to let go of our current ideas, conditioning and accept Krishna consciousness. You can not disagree. Or at least if you disagree then you will never be able to make any spiritual advancement.
And in what way do the movement shapes the individual and her way of thinking in various topical issues such as gender equality, the gay’s right to marry?
The genders are not equal. One would be totally foolish to thing the genders are equal. Male and female are completely different types of body and male and female bodies are suited to different types of work. And homosexuality is sinful and marriage is for a man and a woman for the purpose of having children. This is the only understanding. Any other understanding is insanity.
If men love Krishna; is that homosexuality or what?
/ Göran
No. Loving Krishna is a completely different thing to the perverted reflection of love we experience in the material world. Spiritual love has nothing to do with sex, it is not a physical thing, it is a spiritual thing. You can read Srila Prabhupada’s Krsna Book and you will see there the sort of relationship Krishna has with His cowherd boy friends and his gopi girl friends.
https://krishnastore.com/krsna-the-supreme-personality-of-godhead-volumes-1970-first-edition-h-krishna-401.html
And the other thing is of course we are not these material bodies. We are not actually male or female. Just now we may be in male bodies, but we could have been in a female body in the past, etc. The soul is not male or female. It is the temporary body we currently find ourselves in that is male or female and we identify with that.
So if a pure devotee who is a male develops the mood of congeal love with Krishna, which is possible, then he will appear as gopi, as female, in some place where Krishna is having His pastimes in the material world. But if he develops the mood of a friend of Krishna he will appear as cowherd boy…
So we are not the material body, that means we are not actually male or female. That can change. But the soul remains the same.
Im gay and have been chanting Hare Krishna and hanging out at a Temple for 18 years. Just try it, everything in yr life will become calm and clear. Pls try.
Hare Krishna Mark
It has not worked very well for you so far if you still think you are gay. ‘Gay’ is a material designation related to the material body we find ourselves currently in. So as long as we hang on to material, bodily designations then we will not be able to make any advancement in Krishna consciousness. We have to realize we are not men, women, gay, straight, Australians, Indians, Americans, etc. These are all bodily designations and we are not the material body, we are the eternal spirit soul trapped within the material body. And we can never become free from that trap unless we are prepared to give up these material designations.
So this ‘hanging around a temple’, but not surrendering to the process of chanting at least 16 rounds and following the four regulative principles, is nice in a sense, but there are millions and billions of ‘devotees’ like this, and yes, to some extent that is devotee. But it is not very serious devotee, and such ‘devotees’ have no potency to preach. Srila Prabhupada was trying to create some ‘moons’ not millions of stars. These devotees who hang around the temple for 18 years but never seriously read Prabhupada’s books or surrender to his instructions, are like the millions of stars. In the night sky there are millions of stars, but they are useless in terms of providing illumination. But if the one full moon is in the sky then that one full moon will clearly illuminate everything.
So we need to become serious devotees and actually read Srila Prabhupada’s books and surrender to the instructions we find Srila Prabhupada giving us as we read his books. Then we can become the moons that Prabhupada wants to create and then we can have some illuminating power.
Of course the moons are very rare, mostly people want to be one of the millions of stars and comfort themselves they are ‘devotees’ and they are devotees of course, but not very advanced devotees, and they have no power to spread any illumination.
So we should become serious and at least get off the bodily conception of life.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
You are totally correct . Step up and apply the process .
i would like to ask if a woman or man cannot have children (such as someone who as a child has cancer therapy and is sterile afterwards), does this mean the person cannot be married as a Krishna devotee? Are women who have gone through menopause also supposed to be chaste in their marriages?
Marriage is really for having children. But there is no prohibition for a sterile person from getting married. But there is not much point. Still there is no prohibition. But sex is only for having children. Of course you can do whatever you want to do, but you will go to Hell…. So that is the point. We are not telling you what to do, but educating you so you know the consequences of what you do. Sex is the most entangling thing in the material world. Sex completely cements us in the bodily concept of life. And if we are in the bodily concept of life it is impossible for us to make advancement in Krishna consciousness. So the reality is this material world is a miserable temporary place full of suffering and anxiety. So any intelligent person will not be trying hopelessly to become happy in this miserable place, which is impossible. No. He will be trying to get out of the material world, to go back home back to Godhead. And the greatest disqualification for spiritual advancement is sex. So if one is actually interested in making spiritual advancement, getting out of this miserable material world and going back home back to Godhead, then he has to give up sex life except for having children within marriage, which is what sex is actually meant for.
Madhudvisha Prabhu, is trying to be polite. But for your question the circumstance. It is cannot be married.
but what if you are a homosexual but also asexual (meaning that you have no interest in sexual relationships)? there are a lot of sexualities like that. i personally think that at least if it’s not involving sex krishna doesn’t really care about the gender you’re attracted to. i’m biromantic (i’m bisexual and asexual) and i believe there’s nothing demonic about me and other homosexuals. you can’t control who you love so i don’t think homosexuals have a right to be called demonic because not all people just want sex. if anything people that are straight are driven by sex way more than homosexuals.
Krishna consciousness is only possible for those who are prepared to give up their bodily consciousness, the bodily identification. So if you want to become Krishna consciousness you have to forget all this rubbish, Forget what you love now in the bodily platform and learn how to love Krishna. Krishna conscious means we love Krishna. Only Krishna. And because everyone is part and parcel of Krishna then automatically, when we reestablish our original love for Krishna, we will love everyone else. And we will forget all the rubbish designations on the bodily platform.
So if you are not prepared to give up these rubbish designations and accept, at least throetically, that you are not the material body but you are an eternal spirit soul and your eternal occupation is to serve Krishna, then you can not become Krishna conscious.
You can not be Krishna conscious and hang on to bodily designations like this. It is not possible.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
In srimad bhagwatam canto3 chapter 20verse 23 it is written homosexuals are demons….does that mean every homo person in earth are actually demons … …in the 25th verse it is written that they r fond of sex Nd lusty.bt heterosexuals r also lusty …even Shiva was unable to control himself after seeing mohini form Nd I m born like that is it my fault ???I always guided my own thoughts….I luv Krishna BT NT as a god like u do …i was always attracted towards him maybe bcoz no one accepted me like the way I m …I thought he would be kind enough to accept me…I m 17 ..BT I HV seen so much things in my life ….there is no acceptance in my life even though I m as nrml as other teens…. everyone used 2 make a fun of me..only bcoz I m attracted to same sex….I m also a devotee may be not as good as u BT after learning the fact that god think me as a demon Nd want me to cast off I m simply stunned …..that means god also can not accept me….
Hare Krishna
Homosexuality is demonic but we are all demonic in some way or another. So the point of Krishna consciousness is to transcend these things. To give them up. So it does not matter what sort of demonic activities we may be involved in, if we seriously take to Krishna consciousness by chanting Hare Krishna and reading Srila Prabhupada’s books we will come to realize we are not these material bodies but are actually spirit souls and the spirit soul’s eternal occupation is to serve Krishna.
So we will then naturally understand we have nothing to do with this material body and any designations of the body like homosexuality, etc.
So don’t worry, just chant Hare Krishna and read Srila Prabhupada’s books and things will be OK.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
lets say im a homosexual and i cant control it, because i was born like this.
i dont feel like i can take a sanyasa now.
what should i do? just leave iskcon because of me being gay?
Hare Krishna
Everyone is born in the material world as a materialist. It doesn’t matter if you are born as a homosexual or as a heterosexual. The point is we are attached to sex. And that attachment to sex keeps us solidly on the bodily platform of life. So when we are attached to sex we can not make any advancement in spiritual life. So it does not matter how we are born, homosexual or heterosexual, we have to come to the point of controlling the sex desire. Otherwise we won’t be able to become Krishna conscious.
In Krishna consciousness illicit sex is prohibited. Sex is only permitted within marriage for the purpose of having children. So that means even married couples are only having sex not more than once a month and then only if they want to have a child. So this is also brahmacary, grhastha-brahmacary. Because they have given up the tendency to have sex except for conceiving children.
Of course we can not take sannyasa if we can not control our senses. Sannyasa means one who has controlled his senses, goswami. So if we can not control the sex desire then we can not take sannyasa.
But the point is if we actually follow the process of Krishna consciousness we will be able to control our sex desire. But we have to learn the process by reading Srila Prabhupada’s books and actually following his instructions. There are so many things we have to do to control the sex desire but controlling the tongue is the most important thing. The tongue has two activities. One is to vibrate and the other is to taste. So we have to limit the activities of the tongue to only tasting Krishna prasadam, food that has been cooked by devotees and offered to Krishna with love, and we should only use the tongue to vibrate the Hare Krishna mantra and to talk about Krishna. So if we can not control our sex desire it is generally because we have not controlled our tongue. So we have to work on that. Only allowing the tongue to taste Krishna prasadam and only allow the tongue to vibrate the Hare Krishna mantra and speak Krishna Katha. We have to control our hearing also, only hear about Krishna, like reading Srila Prabhupada’s books, hearing his lectures, etc.
As far as living in ISKCON we have to be able to at least force ourselves to follow the four regulative principles, and that means no illicit sex of course, and we have to be able to chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra. These days generally devotees in ISKCON are not very strictly following these things so things do not run very smoothly in ISKCON temples. Actually a temple can not go on unless the devotees strictly follow the four regulative principles, chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and all get out of bed before 4:00 AM and attend the full morning and evening programs together. And then during the day go out on Sankirtan and Book Distribution. So because ISKCON temples do not do these things seriously anymore they are mostly empty…
So at this time ISKCON is not in a very good position to help you in this way.
But there is nothing against you ‘being gay’, except by you thinking that you are gay that is a mistake. You are not gay. Your material body is gay. But you are not that material body. So the beginning of Krishna consciousness is realizing, at least theoretically, that we are not the material body. We have to realize that this sex attraction that we feel is not actually anything to do with our real spiritual selves. It is only an attraction of the material body we are currently imprisoned in.
Of course this can be a very difficult thing to overcome… But at least if we can understand in theory what is going on that is a great help. So by you saying ‘I am gay’ that means you do not understand, even in theory, that you are not the material body, but that you are the spirit soul within, trapped in that material body. So you, the spirit soul, are not gay. Only this is a tendency of the material body you find yourself in. So Krishna consciousness means we have to overcome these material bodily attractions.
So there is no difference between a gay person who can not control his sex desire and a straight person who can not control his sex desire. To live in a temple you have to be able to control your sex desire. It does not mean that you will never feel the sex desire. But to live in a temple we have to to surrender to the regulative principles, which means it includes no illicit sex, so we have to voluntary undergo the tapasya, suffering, of not acting on the sex desire when it does come into our minds.
And this can be done easily if we really actually seriously follow the process of saddhana-bhakti as Srila Prabhupada is teaching it. But the problem we are facing is that ISKCON no longer teach this process properly in the temples. So unless you read Srila Prabhupada’s books very seriously yourself you will not learn how to control your senses in an ISKCON temple. So for this reason you probably want to leave the temple.
So you have to understand very clearly that being gay or being straight is no disqualification from becoming Krishna conscious. Anyone can become Krishna conscious. But to become Krishna conscious means to elevate ourselves off the bodily platform and onto the spiritual platform. So the idea of sex is on the bodily platform. Both straight and gay people have to agree to stop sex, the only exemption for this is sex for the purpose of having children in marriage. So it is not possible to become Krishna conscious unless we can elevate ourselves off the bodily concept of life and it is not possible to elevate ourselves off the bodily concept of life unless we can conquer the sex desire.
And it is not easy to conquer the sex desire… But you will never conquer it unless you give up the idea that “I am gay”. We are not gay and we are not straight. We are all eternal servants of Krishna, this idea of material sexuality has noting to do with us, as eternal spirit souls. So to advance in spiritual life this material sexuality has to be given up except for the purpose of having children. It has nothing to do with gay or straight…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
With respect Madhudvisa, you can’t say that illicit sex between man and woman is the same as homosex between 2 men. The latter has a special abomination to it. The latter is the behaviour of Asuras and Demons that Krishna slayed.
Hare Krishna Rekha
Yes. You are correct of course. Homosexuality is specially demonic. But sex between man and woman which is not meant for having children and not within marriage is also demonic. So it is a question of degrees of demonic. Like wet stool and dry stool. Wet stool is very nasty but dry stool is better… But it is still stool…
The way I understand this is, sexuality isn’t important when it comes to your practices because sexuality is only meant to determine who you prefer to have sex with. Having a sexual preference means pleasing yourself, which is not allowed because you are expected to only please Krishna, not yourself, not another person. Sex is only meant for producing children, and two men can not produce a child, two women can not produce a child, so if you wish to conceive, you have to perform sex with the opposite gender–within marriage– to achieve this. It has nothing to do with forming a romantic relationship with another person because your romantic relationship is with Krishna only; it’s more of a project both parties are working on out of love for Krishna.
Yes. You are correct that a devotee is only interested in serving Krishna. A devotee husband and wife however can have attachment for each other and help each other advance in Krishna consciousness. Marriage in Krishna consciousness is a man and a woman coming together to serve Krishna. And there will be children and having children for a married couple is natural and important service to Krishna as they will bring the children up as devotees of Krishna. So there is no homosexuality in Krishna consciousness. As you clearly point out homosexuality is a selfish thing for the sense gratification of the persons involved and there is no way it can be used in the service of Krishna. So people can do anything they want to do, but if they want to become Krishna conscious then they have to give up these bodily concepts of life and accept the identity as servant of Krishna and act as a servant of Krishna…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I loved this so much!! This article cleared out all my confusions and made me clear how I should react to this!! Thank you so much Madhudvisa dasa prabhu!! Hare Krishna!
Very wise, wholesome, and true!
So say I wish to become part of this culture/religion/way of life, I would not have to indentify as any sexuality also I would not have to be openly against or for lgbt rights?
Hare Krishna
Devotees of Krishna are not for or against any bodily concept of life. Devotees of Krishna identify with their bodies for the purpose of practical day-to-day life. So if you are in a woman’s body then you have to perform the duties of a woman, if you are in a man’s body you have to perform the duties of a man. That is only natural. But a devotee of Krishna is not on the bodily concept of life. He realizes he is not the material body but still he acts externally in such a way as to set a good example for others, who are almost all in the bodily concept of life.
So a devotee woman will be very much chaste and submissive to her husband and serve him nicely. A devotee man will take care of his family and protect them and provide for them.
So it is not that devotees do not identify with any sexuality. They know what sort of material body they are in and act accordingly for the practical activities within the material world. But internally they know they are not these material bodies but they are eternal spirit souls, and the identity of that eternal spirit soul may be quite different from the identity of the temporary material body they find themselves in at present.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krsna! I read the article… i have some doubts.. If two male devotees are in love with each other but they practice krsna consciousness seriously.. and they is no sex involved then is is an apradha or something wrong a devotee is doing??
Hare Krishna Parkhar
Of course because devotees love Krishna they love everyone. Of course devotees love other devotees also. But this is not homosexuality. Homosexuality is two people of the same sex who want to have sex with each other. It has nothing to do with love. It is about sex. And sex in Krishna consciousness is only for having children in marriage. Love and sex are two very different things. Real love is only possible in connection with Krishna. So because devotees love Krishna they become compassionate for all the conditioned souls and want to help them develop their dormant love for Krishna also.
Devotees are in love with Krishna, they are not in love with anyone else. They love everyone else as a result of their love for Krishna.
So if some devotee is thinking he is in love with another devotee particularly and exclusively then that is maya, that needs to be corrected. The thing is Krishna is the person a devotee is in love with… That we have to understand. If devotee is thinking he is in love with someone else other than Krishna then that means he is in maya.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I always loved Krishna… but this article about his view on sex is really funny…well we don’t know Krishna himself had said all this or people are just interpreting his words the way they want… a man ( a god for you) who had 1600 wives is talking about restricted sex, he never married Radha but had a relationship with her outside the marriage, an old literature even talks about his sexual encounters… and you still want us to believe what is written in this article…
Homosexual marriages are not OK. Marriage is for man and woman for having nice Krishna conscious children. Incest is also obviously not OK.
The formal ceremony of marriage is not just for procreation it gives security & protection to children that will hopefully appear as a eresult of this union. It has been desigfned by Krsna to be this way. If people at an ashram of same sex are attracted to each other then its better if they just be good friends & go for walks, eat together & discuss spiritual topics etc but marriage is unecessary for them as there will be nno children. Just because we want things it doesnt make it right to have them.m We must fit into to Krsnas ideals for us & not make Krsna fit in to our ideals. Hare Krsna
A QUESTION:
Thank you for this article. Its seems to be a straightforward moral piece based on scripture and I understand it completely. However, for example, what if you understand, more esoterically, “marriage” to mean the correct flow of sexual energy through ida and pingala and illicit sex to mean distorted flows. There is also a school of thought that says no loss of semen is required for procreation, as anyone who got pregnant using the rythm medthod knows. There is a fluid not associated with spasm that is perfectly capable of fertilization. I’ve even heard it said that those spermazoa are of a higher order, who knows but it kind of makes sense.
But that’s not my question. My question is about homosexuality in terms of what I understand from hindu teachings of ida and pingala, the feminine and masculine currents. I certainly understand that all illict sex is ill advised as you describe and your teaching on watering the roots of Krishna is beautiful. At the same time, if that kind of sex was defined as I discussed above, through love and conservation of fluid/energy, is there not more to the story in terms of the gender of the people having sex. or not. In other words, is a guy couple’s ida and pingala reversed naturally and so they could still in theory have krishna sex, or is it a thorough distortion. My question in no way is a judgment or lack of compassion for people who are gay, aflicted as we all are. Thanks!
This is all nonsense Sally.
Sex is for having children within religious marriage. Only a man and a woman can have children and only a man and a woman can be religiously married.
So any sex outside of this is illicit sex.
Even sex between a properly married couple is illicit if it is not for the purpose of having children.
So the point is sex is for having children within religious marriage. That is all. Otherwise it is illicit sex.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hari Bol!
These comments begin with discussion and rapidly disintegrate into speculation and wild pseudo-religious nonsense. In the very beginning, Madhudvisa Dasa explains that our own opinion has no value: we must accept the opinion of Krsna, God. It is Krsna who decides what is acceptable sex life, and Madhudvisa Dasa has kindly educated us what is acceptable. Agree or disagree, like or don’t like, it is of no matter. In order to develop love of God, we must accept His opinion on all matters, and adjust our behavior accordingly. That is the prescription for all of the ills of society. Currently, everyone wants to please themselves, and so they very mischievously attach great importance to sexual pleasure. But this is a false attachment to a bodily mood, easily overcome and controlled, so we must give it up, and attach ourselves instead to pleasing Krsna. In this way, we transcend all of these mundane pleasures. This sexual urge dissipates naturally over time, so if it is so very important to our happiness and to our relationships, why does it go away? Does nature insist that we must become unhappy and have sad relationships? This is a critical question, and has been very simply and nicely answered by Madhudvisa Dasa.
It seems as though ISKCON GBC has lost the plot. False gurus instead of Prabhupada, homosexual marriages&calling Prabhupadas temples hindu temples&installing hindu demigod deities into peoples homes& selling maha mantra courses.Prabhupada would never have authorised these practices.Marriage was designed by Krsna for the protection & security of women & children & also so relatives & the local community can see you are officially united! Instead of making a big deal about equality etc., why cant homosexuals at temples just be good friends, eat together& go for walks etc. Why this public show of getting married.These ‘marriages’ will never be accepted in the eyes of Krsna. Soon you will have devotees just living together&all sorts of other things will be acceptible.They will no longer be temples just karmi houses.
Very good response, Madhudvisa Prabhu. You answered with the facts regarding casual sex-life as an obstacle to pure devotion, and you did not specifically demonise homosexuals. =]
Now, gay people who read this will understand, and not feel excluded or judged.
However, I was wondering, you emphasise that gay people should not say they are gay or identify as such, because they are not their bodies. Using this logic, would it be reasonable to say that you are not a heterosexual? =P
Hare Krishna Acyutananda
We are not this material body. So a devotee does not identify with his material body. So he is not thinking, “I am a man,” or “I am a woman,” he knows he is not this material body, that this material body is just a temporary covering of his eternal spirit soul and that he is eternally a servant of Krishna.
So a devotee does not identify with any of these material designations.
To become Krishna conscious we have to give up these material bodily designations. This idea that “I am a gay man” is a material bodily designation and it is not possible to become Krishna conscious without giving up this designation.
As far as men then there is a purpose for them to get married and have sex with their wife for the purpose of having Krishna conscious children. This sort of sex life is approved of by Krishna and He says in the Bhagavad-gita that He is such sex life between the husband and wife according to the regulative principles within marriage.
But beyond this all sex is illicit sex and that is not permitted for one who is serious about advancing in spiritual life.
So heterosexual sex that is for having children within marriage is the only sort of sex that is permitted for devotees. That means that, practically speaking, even married devotees have to be practically celibate. They can have sex only when they want to have a child and then only once a month on the day when the woman is most likely to conceive.
So that is practically no sex.
Realistically sex and spiritual advancement do not go together. Sex is the thing that is most effective at dragging us down to the material bodily concept of life and that destroys our ability to advance in spiritual life. So heterosexual or homosexual, it does not matter. If we seriously want to make advancement in spiritual life we have to get free from the bodily concept of life and no longer be thinking in this sexual way but only be thinking in terms of serving Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Krsna is present everywhere. He is in every human being. We all are parts of Krsna. Suppose there is a wife who is in Krsna Consciousness. Her husband is a normal person unaware of the presences of Krsna, asks her to have sex for pleasure and the wife knowing that Krsna is present everywhere and also within her husband, agrees to perform sex for pleasure, is this right?
Sex performed for pleasure are not decided, it is performed depending upon how lusty the person is. What if the wife has no time to explain her husband about the right reason and purpose of performing sex and she agrees with him in Krsna Consciousness, is this right?
It is not right of course. Illicit sex is illicit sex. But the wife really has no choice, she has to serve her husband. So the idea is she should cook for Krishna, offer the bhoga to Krishna, and then feed her husband with Krishna prasadam and encourage him to read Prabhupada’s books and let him hear her chanting Hare Krishna and encourage him to chant Hare Krishna. If he is Indian and she is Indian then this is the traditional Indian culture and he will most probably not complain and he will become Krishna conscious by taking the Krishna Prasadam, hearing the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra and reading Prabhupada’s books and he will understand for himself that the only way we can actually experience real pleasure is by pleasing Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I’m so disappointed to see our epics and even our god doesn’t understand what we people really want..? Even if I love krsna you will call me a gay? ..? During mahabhart krsna himself took ardhnari roroop (women body) and married a man…according to krishna love doesn’t bound in sexual orientation I love my krishna and Im proud that gita is the only holy book which doesnt consider homosexuality wrong unless it has true emotions of love
..hare krsna.
Hare Krishna Tarun
You don’t understand what spiritual life is or what Krishna is preaching in the Bhagavad-gita nor do you understand Krishna’s actions. You are blinded by your own lust and are only interested in what you want, what you think will satisfy your senses.
Krishna consciousness means realizing that actually we are all part and parcel of Krishna and that our actual purpose is to serve Krishna. And it is only when we serve Krishna that we will be happy. So you can not “love Krishna” as you claim to do without understanding what Krishna is saying to you.
The idea of being “gay” or “straight” is related to your material body and we are not the material body. We are the spirit soul who is present within the material body. As spirit soul we are eternal and we have an eternal loving relationship with Krishna.
It is not that Krishna consciousness particularly criticizes ‘gay’ relationships, the idea is that any relationship based on the material body is a temporary illusion only. So this is just as true for ‘straight’ relationships as it is for ‘gay’ relationships. But the thing is in ‘straight’ relationships one can render service to Krishna by having sex only for the purpose of producing Krishna conscious children. You have to face it that the purpose of sex is to have children. That is what it is for. So you may know that Krishna says in the Bhagavad-gita that “I am the sex life according to the regulative principles.” So it means that even sex can be good, sex can be devotional service, if it is used within marriage for having children. That is what sex is for. And other use of sex by anyone, straight or gay, is illicit sex and that is wrong. It is particularly wrong outside marriage.
Of course to some extent we can do what we want to do, that is the little independence Krishna has given us. But there are consequences. That is all I am letting you know here. You can be gay but having sex with anyone, man or woman, for ‘pleasure’, is a misuse and a misunderstanding of the purpose of sex and it is wrong. This is not limited to gay people. Straight people are also acting sinfully if they have sex outside marriage or even if they have sex with their wives without the purpose of having children. So any sex is wrong, sinful, bad if it is not done according to the regulative principles [means within marriage and then for the purpose of having God-conscious children.]
You have to understand that advancement in spiritual life means we have to become detached from the material bodily activities. And the most binding materialistic attachment is sex. So to advance in spiritual life we have to either refrain from sex life completely or at least limit our sex life to for having children in marriage only. Otherwise we will not be able to make advancement in spiritual life. This is because sex is such an entangling thing, it is so good at bringing us down onto the bodily concept of life which is what will keep us bound in the material world forever.
So you have to actually understand that the purpose of life according to Krishna is not to stay in the material world and rot here forever perpetually undergoing birth, old age, disease and death. No. The purpose of the human form of life is to advance spiritually, to realize that we are not the material bodies but spirit souls, to realize that we are all eternal servants of Krishna and to reestablish ourselves in our eternal relationship of serving Krishna and at the time of death remember Krishna and go back home back to Godhead. So to do this we have to fall in love with Krishna. And falling in love with Krishna means that we will always remember Krishna. And Krishna states in the Bhagavad-gita that whoever remembers Me at the time of death, he will come to Me. So that is the point. You have to understand this point. That illicit sex with anyone, men or women, will cause us to forget Krishna, it will entangle us in the material world and will force us to continue on in the cycle of samsara, the repetition of birth and death, and in this way we will completely waste this human form of life.
So you have to understand that we are not speaking of only ‘gay’ sex being bad. All illicit sex is bad. The only time sex is good is if it is used in the service of Krishna within marriage for the purpose of having nice Krishna conscious children. And that also has to be done only strictly according to the regulative principles and that also has to be given up in the later stage of life. Even a married person is expected to take to the vanaprastha (retired) life after the age of fifty years, so after this age he is supposed to give up sex life altogether. By this time he should have some grown sons and the final years of his life should be spent in developing his spiritual life, in coming closer to Krishna.
You need to realize that sex in the material world gay or straight, except for the very restricted sex according to the regulative principles within marriage, will cause us to forget Krishna and will completely reinforce the material concept of life. Even this sex according to the regulative principles in marriage is dangerous and even that has to be given up after the age of fifty.
So for a materialistic person this idea of giving up sex life is horrible. Because a materialistic person lives only for sex life. That is his pleasure, that is his purpose of life. So generally speaking to give up sex life is impossible. But if we can experience a higher taste. If we can experience some pleasure that is actually unlimitedly greater than the so-called pleasure we experience in sex life, then we will naturally give up the sex life and not be attracted by it. So actual devotees of Krishna engaged in the service of Krishna experience such great transcendental pleasure that sex life is no longer attractive to them. Actually it becomes disgusting to them. They spit at the thought of sex. That is because they are experiencing something so much greater than sex and because they realize that sex will make them forget Krishna and make them loose this higher spiritual taste.
So this sex desire is the symptom that we don’t love Krishna. The symptom that we love Krishna is that we will no longer have any more material desires of which sex is the chief.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Sex if for having babies and homosexuality is wrong. It does not matter what you think Rob…
Well stated, Madhudvisa. Your summary is true to Srila Prabhupada and very helpful. Thank you!
Hello, I am Christian. I watched many video’s of Prabhupada online. Many times he addressed Jesus the Christ in his teachings as a man whom understood the ways of God. Didn’t Prabhupada say the Son knew the will of the Father?
I understand what you are saying about Homosexuality. However, Jesus himself in the book of Matthew 19:12 exempted Eunuchs as he called them from the traditional marriage paradigm. He stated to his disciples, “For there are Eunuchs born so from the womb, made so by man, and made so for the Kingdom of Heaven. I have always understood this to mean Homosexuals and Asexuals being born so from the womb, Castrated harem guards and Castrati singers being made so by man, and Priests and some Monks being made so for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Surely love is never wrong as I believe God made us all to be loving beings with a set purpose of this to be our ultimate goal. That we first learn to love one another as we learn a more perfect love of God. To deny homosexuals love is to deny them the learning process to learn to love God. Surely it would never be acceptable to deny someone the learning process of love. Abstinence from sex perhaps but the body will not be denied forever no matter whom the being is.
Hare Krishna Jusrsid
There is no love in the material world. It is only lust. That is not anything against homosexuals. There is no love between men and women either. It is all selfish, self-interested, and all based on the bodily concept of life. The word ‘love’ really only can be used to describe our loving relationship with Krishna. You may have heard of the four regulative principles? If anyone at all, homosexual or straight, wants to become Krishna conscious they have to follow the four regulative principles. And you may know that one of those principles is “NO ILLICIT SEX”. That means no sex, for straights also, they can only have sex once a month only with their wife and only if they want to have a child. There is no sex for pleasure in Krishna consciousness. If you want to have “sex for pleasure” then you can not become Krishna conscious, this is nothing to do with gay or straight. It is for everyone.
So ‘homosexual’ has no meaning in Krishna consciousness. It is irrelevant. Because there is no sex except for having children in marriage. So if you are not prepared to accept this regulative principal then it is impossible for you to become Krishna conscious. So you have to give up sex with men if you want to become Krishna conscious. Because that has no connection with service to Krishna, it is sense gratification only, and you can not have a child to raise in Krishna consciousness. So you have to give up sex with men if you want to become Krishna conscious. If you want to continue having sex with men there is no possibility that you can become Krishna conscious. That is noting against homosexuals, it is the same for straights. If a straight man is not prepared to give up sex for pleasure with women he can not become a devotee of Krishna either.
Anyone, if they want to become Krishna conscious, must give up sex for pleasure.
So there is no question whatsoever of sex with men in Krishna consciousness. You have to give this up or you can not become Krishna conscious.
Obviously you can live with a man or men and together serve Krishna and practice Krishna consciousness and can be friends and associate with each other and inspire each other and help each other advance in Krishna consciousness. But if you have sex then that is maya and that will completely destroy your advancement in Krishna consciousness and also destroy the Krishna consciousness of the other person.
Spiritual life and sex for pleasure are two completely opposite things. If one is Krishna consciousness he will hate the idea of ‘sex for pleasure’, there is no pleasure in that for him. And if one is having sex like this there is no question of Krishna consciousness for him.
So there can be no homosexuality in Krishna consciousness. If you are identifying yourself as homosexual [having sex with men] you can not be Krishna consciousness. To become Krishna consciousness we have to give up all these material designations. So if you are designating yourself as homosexual you are not Krishna conscious and can not become Krishna consciousness. You have to give up this idea of being ‘homosexual’ and become Krishna dasa, a servant of Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I am gay, and many times i fell guilty that i have sex with man.
and I like krishna consciousness also. and like chant krishna name.
but as I gay in daily life i m disturbing too much in my life. and I cant stop to have sex with man.
many many times I asks krishna why he made me gay, when my heart will convert to pure krishna consciousness. I m very thirsty for krishna consciouness.
but when i see sexy man then everything I forget krishna consciousness and attract to him.
after some memnt myself feel guilty, what the hell I did, so avoid chant name.
When krishna will create such situation that I hate homo sex…
So daily I pray to Krishna quit my habit.
What u think… what mental situation I have, Is it demonic or anything else? Pls reply me.
It is not Krishna that forces us to do things like this, we become entangled in the material world as a result of our karma or work and we are practically forced to act in a particular way to fulfill that karma. So the way out is complete surrender to Krishna by surrendering to Krishna’s pure devotee and serving him. Everyone is attracted to sex. It is not just gay people. Everyone has this problem and everyone has to overcome this problem. So it is not a problem that you have and that others don’t. So the process is always the same, follow the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication] and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily and very seriously read and study all of Srila Prabhupada’s books and put the instructions you find from Srila Prabhupada in his books into practice in your life and you will be able to solve this problem. But you can know it for sure that if you are not prepared to surrender to this process of saddhana-bhakti you will not be able to break free of the force of the three modes of material nature that is forcing you to do these things even though you really don’t want to do them.
Dear respected ISCKON member,
Do you understand the science behind this? Being gay isnt by choice. It is genetic to much extent. Of course craving for sex isnt good, but if you believe in God, and how we are God’s children, then i take the liberty to say that God makes men gay and straight.
So God, and in particular my Krishna would not abandon his gay son.
Hare Krishna Rajan
If you want to make spiritual advancement you have to got off the bodily concept of life. Thinking that you are gay is on the bodily concept of life. So you have to give up the bodily concept of life if you want to make spiritual advancement. We have to realize that we are not these material bodies, that we are spirit souls, eternal servants of Krishna. We are not these bodies. You have to get that through your head. The body may be gay or straight but we are not these bodies. You have to get this. And if we want to make advancement in spiritual life we have to give up the bodily concept of life. Stop identifying with the body. Saying “I am gay” is identifying yourself with your body and that means you are in material, bodily consciousness, not spiritual consciousness and that will block you from making any spiritual advancement at all.
So we have to give up the bodily concept of life. There is a purpose for sex with a woman in marriage, and that is to bring god-conscious children into the world. And that is service to Krishna. But there is no service to Krishna in homosexual sex, that is simply sense gratification and completely on the bodily concept of life so it has to be given up if one actually wants to become Krishna conscious.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I have always been fascinated by Krishna followers, seen on the streets. But now reading this article. I can’t believe it. Your vision of homosexuality is the same of the Catholic Church.
So sex is allowed just to have children!?
It’s so dangerous this approach to the life. This is extremism.
Hare Krishna Antonio
People can do anything they want to. We can not change that. But we can give some advice to the people if they want to make spiritual advancement what are the things that are favorable for this.
It is not specifically about homosexuality, but any sort of sex life will reinforce the bodily concept of life. That is what keeps us chained in the prison of the material world. Actually we are not this material body, we are the spirit soul within the body and the pains and pleasures of the body have no connection with the soul. The body is like a machine. Like a motor car. And you–the soul–are like the driver of the motor car. So the car has some needs. You have to supply it with petrol, every few months you have to change the oil, you have to keep the tires pumped up, you have to make sure there is water in the radiator. If you want to take service from the motor car then you have to take care to supply its needs. But you are not the motor car and providing petrol to the car does not give you any pleasure actually. So sex is like that, it is a bodily demand, and it is only concerned with the body, and has no connection actually with the soul. Just like you can not satisfy your hunger by providing petrol to the car–you can not satisfy your soul by having sex with your body. There is no connection at all between the pleasure of the body and the pleasure of the soul. Just like giving the car petrol will never satisfy the driver of the car’s hunger.
So it is a mistake, a misconception, that by trying to satisfy the demands of the body that we can become “happy”.
Rather if you are having unrestricted sex life–any sort of sex life, not just homosexuality–then that will disturb your mind and you will not be able to concentrate on anything else. So advancement in spiritual life will be out of the question. Actually you will not be able to achieve anything significant in your life at all–even from the material point of view–if your mind is completely disturbed by this sex desire.
And for a man loosing semen is loosing strength and intelligence and duration of life. The more semen you loose the less brain power and strength and endurance and determination you will have, and also your life will be shortened and your aging will be accelerated every time you have sex. So sex is a very bad thing actually in so many ways for the mind and the body.
And in addition to sex causes so many problems. You will catch so many diseases from sex, and if you have sex with a women and make her pregnant then there will be a child you will have to support. And if you decide to kill the child with an abortion then you will be responsible for the murder of that child and you will have to suffer terribly for this.
So any way you look at it the results of unrestricted sex life are very bad. However sex has a purpose–the purpose of sex is to bring nice children into the world. So sex life within marriage between husband and wife for the purpose of having children is the only sort of sex life that is permitted in the Vedic scriptures.
So we are giving this information and people who want to make spiritual advancement can take advantage of this information and benefit greatly. And it is really nothing particularly to do with homosexuality. The same restrictions are there for heterosexuals also. They can not have sex outside marriage and can not even have sex in marriage unless they are wanting to have a child and even that is limited to the day when the women is most fertile and there is the best chance of a pregnancy. So for married heterosexuals in Krishna consciousness sex is limited to only once a month and only if they want to conceive a child. So there is no “sex for pleasure” only for having children.
Of course without being Krishna consciousness this is impossible to believe that someone could control the sex desire like this. But it is possible for a devotee who is actually enjoying a higher pleasure. In Krishna consciousness you can enjoy spiritual bliss that is so great that it makes the so-called pleasure of sex seem completely insignificant. So it is only possible to give up sex if you are enjoying this higher spiritual pleasure.
An example is a starving man. If he has not eaten anything for a month then any food at all he will eat with great relish and enjoyment. Even the most rubbish thing that generally he would never even touch. If he is starving he will eat it very eagerly. But if a man has just eaten a very first-class meal and is completely satisfied he will never be attracted to eating this very low grade rubbish food. He will have no attraction for it, no taste for it.
So one who is actually in Krishna consciousness is actually enjoying ever-increasing transcendental pleasure on the spiritual platform and he is completely satisfied by this and he actually sees the so-called pleasure of sex life as disgusting in comparison. He has no attraction for it. He is completely satisfied on the spiritual platform.
So I hope you can understand this. What we are giving is advice for those people who are seriously interested in making advancement in spiritual life. And if one wants to make advancement in spiritual life there is no alternative–he has to control his senses–otherwise advancement in spiritual life is not possible. And controlling the sex desire is one of the most important items in sense control. So for anyone wanting to make spiritual advancement it is essential that he follows these rules in regard to sex life. Otherwise he can not make any advancement.
But if you are not interested in spiritual life then you can do whatever you want to do and you will have to suffer the consequences. And as I have mentioned before there are many bad consequences from unrestricted sex life. But without becoming Krishna conscious you will not be able to stop it…
So if by the mercy of Krishna you can control your sex life that will be a great relief to you and a great feeling of liberation. Actually we are controlled by sex life, as soon as there is some sex desire we are forced to work to try to fulfill that desire. So we are servants of the desires of the body. That is a very condemned position, a spiritual person strives to become goswami, “the mater of the senses.” Normally materialistic people are godasa, “servants of the senses” and that is a very bad position to be in. So if you can become goswami–master of the senses–as I said you will feel great relief and a great feeling of liberation…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Obeisance and all glory to Srila sri Prabupada.
I have two questions.
1.In this world of many fake Gurus,how do you find your (proper) Guru?
2. Not directly related, just logistic. What is the address of ISKON Center in Oslo, Norway?
Hare’ Krsna: I have been chanting for many many years and visiting ISKCON temples. But there is much I disagree with ISKCON on. I have wanted to take first initiation for a number of years but have always felt that Srila Prabhupada is my guru. I have looked at other initiating ISKCON gurus, but none of them have affected me or moved me like SP. I think it is more important to be initiated properly than to become a member of ISKCON. Would you please tell me where and how I can meet a Ritvik guru? Thank you. Om Hari Om
Hare Krishna James
You are correct Prabhu. You know who has attracted you to Krishna consciousness and that is Srila Prabhupada. Just take full shelter of Srila Prabhupada, read all his books, listen to all his classes, watch all the DVDs and listen carefully and follow all the instructions he gives you in your practical life and your spiritual life will develop wonderfully. I do not know of any ‘ritvik gurus’ really.
Initiation actually is not so important, the actual ceremony, as you say the important thing is to have the right guru. The real initiation is when we actually surrender. When we make the order of our bona fide spiritual master the mission in our life. If we don’t do that there is no initiation, even if we have a grand fire-yajna. Nothing happens, there is no connection unless there is surrender. And hardly anyone actually surrenders.
So surrender to Srila Prabhupada Prabhu. Follow his instructions. At least chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily and strictly follow the four regulative principles and make a program to read all of Srila Prabhupada’s books. And for service why not go out on book distribution. That is the most needed service at the moment
Don’t worry about initiation so much. Krishna knows what you want, He is in your heart, so He will supply what you need when you need it. For the time being surrender to Prabhupada, serve Prabhupada and your life will be a grand success.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
Humans (and the Bonobo monkeys, we are told) are the only species that can, and does, practice sex for other reasons than having a child. Tantra says that animals practice sex for progeny only, ordinary humans for pleasure, and saints for spiritual illumination.
Now if the Absolute consciousness has created homosexuality, there must be a very good reason for it. This could be, say, a Taoist view. And modern science has growing evidence that homosexuality is present VERY abundantly in nature among animals. Could anyone accuse animals of being unnatural? Logically it seems that it is Nature’s way of regulating population and humans tend to be the only species that makes fuss about it.
Many holy people have said that homosexuality is bad and undesirable but that was only because they have tried to push people into spiritual life and energetically, unless certain measures are taken, homosexuality does create some imbalance that hampers the smoothness of spiritual evolution. However, if sexuality is not expressed, people on lower rungs of spiritual evolution (in yogic terms, functioning at the level of the lower chakras) are only left with suppression no matter how much practice they do. Sexuality loosens its grip naturally as one progresses.
Now my own story just to prove the point: I myself used to force myself into a relationship with a woman – for 7 long years – so no one could “accuse” me of not giving it a try. The only result was physical, emotional and mental misery and retardation of my evolution. In addition, once I dated a guy involved in the Hare Krishna movement. His case is even more sad than mine, because he actually went one step forward, married AND, successfully, had sex for progeny. Now his son has a deranged father who can’t help dating men and having sex with them.
In conclusion, sexual prescriptions that we get from the saints and gurus are very valid but not universally – this is a mistake that religions make. Please don’t turn your wonderful tradition into a rigid religion; the only chances of survival and ability to benefit humanity is to be an evolving spiritual tradition. The power of the Maha Mantra is great and surely, in due course, will transform and sublimate everyone’s lower urges into higher spiritual consciousness. Until that happens, though, indulging with awareness acceptance and with moderation is surely the most sensible choice for the vast majority of people.
Hari Om
Great comments, dam some people are so dull. Either most people are dumb and lazy or I’m must be real smart. Are people to lazy to read the comments from Madhudvisa dasa??? I mean really how many times does he have to explain him self , SEX IS NOT ALLOWED IN THE HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT FOR PLEASURE!!!!! IT”S ONLY TO BEGET CHILDREN!!! SEX WETHER IT”S GAY OR STRAIT IS NOT ALLOWED FOR SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT!!!!! Let me repeat the last statement .SEX WETHER IT”S GAY OR STRAIT IS NOT ALLOWED FOR SPIRTUAL ADVANCEMENT! I’m mean really stop asking the same idiotic questions people! If you want to have gay sex or straight sex for pleasure then so be it, go have a ball! But it’s very hard to make SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT DOING SO. Just as it’s hard to make spiritual advancement GETTING DRUNK every night and snorting lines of coke! OR eating your self to death on the flesh of DEAD animals!!!!! DO YOU ALL GET IT???? DO WHAT YOU WANT, BUT DON”T EXPECT TO MAKE SPIRITUAL ADVANCEMENT SMOKING CRACK, HAVING SEX ALL THE TIME CAUSE YOU THINK YOU LOVE SOME DUDE OR CHICK, AND BEING GLUTTONOUS! Jeez!
LOL, GREAT COMMENT!!! I’m a gay guy born in the in Hare Krsna movement. I’ve had sex with guys only. I understand the reactions to this, but in NO WAY am I going to change our PHILOSOPHY to meet my own NEEDS and pleasures!!! People are so dull , they just want to hear that it’s ok to have sex, and they’ll keep asking until someone tells them the answer they want to hear. As a gay guy I know that I can not evolve in my own spiritual practice if I’m having illicit sex, drinking, eating meat, gambling etc etc.
I’m now in a relationship where I don’t have sex with my partner, I “love” him for who he is and enjoy his companionship. I converted him to Hare Krsna and now we both go to kirtans, chant Hare Krsna, and preach to others.
Thanks bud I needed that, not met a great deal of people in the KC movement and I’m on the same boat. All the best, Hare Krishna
Aren’t there stories in some of the side along religious texts about Krishna growing up- and doesn’t he have sexual relations with the wives of men who are out herding animals?
Also, the Bhagavad Gita rules out illicit sex- but what type of sex does it ever go into detail in? It rules out lust and illicit sex, but how do I know Krishna is specifically talking about this or that- and not just one woman and 20 other guys?
And does Krishna enumerate exactly that sex is only for procreation, or does he just say that procreation is a thing that honors or pleases him? These last two ones- can you find me the citation for the text so I can look them up in my book please?
Thank you!
Brilliance for free; your parents must be a sweetheart and a crteified genius.
I’m a bit confused by some of these interpretations. For one, aren’t there numerous stories of Krishna having sex with Indian woman- the wives of the men who went into the fields or some such thing?
Also, can you post the specific scripture from the Bhagavad Gita that lays these things out. For one, there is a prohibition on illicit sex- but it doesn’t describe illicit in it. If that’s your interpretation of illicit sex then power to you- but does Krishna further expound that? Beyond that, is it expounded in other texts- the Srimad Bhagavatam for example, etc. And can you show me the scripture where he says reproduction is the only use for sex- I’ve not actually seen it. I’d appreciate it. 🙂
there are no stories relating KRISHNA having sex to otherz wifes & having such thoughts is very SINFUL..KRISHNA is th supreme personality of godhead..if ur aiming at the rasa lila then know well that at that time KRISHNA was only 8yrs old from the scriptures so how could u say such things..furthermore th women ur talking about in the KRISHNA lila in Vrndavan are the GOPIS and they are the eternal servants & associates of RADHA & KRISHNA..when KRISHNA come in this world they all come along together with HIM & participate in HIS pastimes..don’t mistake the GOPIS or any person associating with KRISHNA to be ordinary persons like us..thats a gr8 mistake
Is there any problem with romantic relationships between two people of the same sex if there is no sex involved?
Only if it interferes with their relationship to Krishna.
In which case it’s a matter of how serious they are about serving Him, not about their orientation.
You said that in Krishna Consciousness only sex for conceiving a child is allowed. I was wondering, is my union with my husband still blessed if we make love not just for babies or pleasure, but because I love him. Is sex purely as an expression of love acceptable?
No. Sex is only permitted for having children.
Sex for love is a big problem. Because it means at the time of having sex you are not wanting a child. It is simply for selfish pleasure. And if a child results from that sex, which happens many times, no matter what precautions you may take, that child will be vana sankara, an “unwanted child” and you will murder him with an abortion or if he is born he will not develop properly because he was unwanted at the time of conception.
It is a misunderstanding. There is no such thing as sex which is blessed or sacred with your husband or wife if that sex is not for the purpose of bringing a nice child into the world. That is the purpose of sex. And any other use of it is illicit sex and is sinful and will only have very inauspicious results.
The idea is to do everything for the pleasure of Krishna….
With all due respect, my child is still wanted even if his conception is unintended. My heart has no fear of motherhood and my child will be welcomed with much celebration no matter what the circumstances of his conception.
My husband desires sex and I give him this gift out of love. It would be wonderful if he were enlightened and did not desire it as much, I think he would be happier. I would be happier too if I didn’t have to perform so much as well. How can I change this situation? So many wives who are more spiritual than their sex-craving husbands find themselves in my same predicament. What is your advice?
Hare Krishna Sarah
Yes. There is no proper education for anyone in this demoniac society. So the men are educated to think that getting married is for having sex and women generally think that as well. That explains the very high divorce rates. As soon as there is some problem with the sex life the husband and wife separate.
It is a completely bad society, but we have to make the best use of a bad bargin. As a wife it is your duty to serve your husband nicely and to be submissive to him. And if you do serve him nicely in a very submissive way he will grow to love you a great deal and will very seriously consider anything you suggest to him.
So if you do this, serve your husband very nicely in a submissive mood, and at the same time advance in Krishna consciousness by reading Srila Prabhuapda’s books and chanting Hare Krishna and cooking nice vegetarian meals and offering them to Srila Prabhuapda and Krishna and then to your husband, then gradually everyting will be transformed in your married life.
Association is very powerful. So if you can become a nice devotee of Krishna, your husband will also advance spiritually by your association. And in his own time and his own way he will realize that the sex life is less important and that there are more important aspects to your relationship.
I wish you all success with this.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna
I think you misunderstood the meaning of unwanted child , its not unwanted by “you” directly but the consciousness of the child will be unfavorable for any sort spiritual advancement which would ultimately affect the family and society , everyone.
Hence parents would be held responsible for the ruining of their child’s consciousness just because they wanted some sense gratification instead.
http://vaniquotes.org/wiki/Varna-sankara
My lover was a Hare Krishna. He loved God and his method was through Krishna.
I loved him dearly and my method to God was through Christ.
Our spirituality was stronger than “mere mortals” or “human beings”. Our love was bonded by GOD. We both had different paths, but at the end we both were devotees of God first and foremost.
We always said, God is #1, our parents our#2, and we are #3.
My lover Milan is now in heaven with God and his guru Krishna. But he taught me much about love for God and that it does not matter which route we take, as long as it is GOD.
And my lover also taught me that it does not matter what “mere man” says or thinks, all that matters is your love for GOD and your spirituality will be stronger.
NEVER let mere man tell you how you should worship GOD.
Love to all.
Hey, FunMe,
My own life partner is a Christian, and he’s done a lot to show me Lord Jesus and all the wonderful things He is. My focus primarily is Krishna, the Father, but Srila Prabhupada said once that if we don’t know the son, our understanding of the father is incomplete, and Jude was more than happy to show me the son.
I agree with you fully, God truly DOES come first, and all He craves of us is that relationship, and anyone can have that relationship.
hare krishna!
I think if you know god you automatically know everyone else , think of it if you were to know each individual soul! we cannot even imagine knowing all 8 billion people on earth what to say of millions of universes where our universe is one of the smaller ones(3 headed brahama which represents number of (3) lokas) not to mention the fact that srila prabhupada says that more than 90% of spirit souls live in spirtual world!
So watering the root is enough or in other sense knowing god is enough!
It seems like your opinion of homosexuality is the same opinion on everything else. Basically there’s no distinction, or any cause for it.