The Flat Earth?
Devotees often ask me what I think of the Flat Earth movement which has become very popular these days.
And what the Vedas, particularly the Srimad-Bhagavatam, have to say about the shape of the earth.
Firstly I would like to point out that we are not very interested in the earth. We are interested in going back home, back to Godhead. We are interested in Krishna, serving Krishna, chanting Hare Krishna and helping the other residents of this planet to awaken their dormant Krishna consciousness by chanting Hare Krishna, dancing in ecstasy and feasting on sumptuous Krishna prasadam… And we can chant, dance and feast on any world, flat earth or globe earth, it doesn’t matter.
And secondly I would like to point out, in this mood, many of the great Acaryas have referred to this planet as a globe including Srila Prabhupada who has referred to the earth as a globe in many places throughout his writings. So it is not a very big thing to us, the shape of the earth. In many cases irrelevant things like this we can just accept the current view and it is OK for preaching. It makes no difference if it is a globe or flat. We want to get off it and go back home back to Godhead. In this regard flat earth or globe earth does not matter. We chant Hare Krishna.
But Srila Prabhupada has a great vision. As an integral part of his preaching mission he wants to build a giant Vedic Planetarium and the purpose of that is preaching. The purpose of that is to illustrate the factual structure and workings of the universe as they are revealed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Not that we are really very concerned about the structure of the universe. But the scientists have got everything wrong, and the two areas where they are most outrageously wrong are:
1. The origin of life [life comes from life, not chemicals]
2. The structure and workings of the Universe.
So Srila Prabhupada wants us to build a Vedic Planetarium which shows the actual workings and structure of the universe.
This will be fascinating to every thoughtful person on the planet and everyone will understand what a great source of real scientific knowledge Srimad-Bhagavatam is. Of course ISKCON have turned the Vedic Planetarium into a joke so someone else will have to build the real thing. However it will be built and it will revolutionize everyone on the planet’s word view.
To build the Vedic Planetarium based on the description of the universe in Srimad-Bhagavatam we have to understand the Bhagavatam’s description. And therein lies the problem at present. I am not aware of anyone on the planet at this point in time who is able to understand the Bhagavatam’s description of the universe to the extent they can actually grasp how it works and where we are situated within it in sufficient detail. Which makes building a Vedic Planetarium at the moment impossible. You can not build something you don’t understand… The first step is to comprehend the model. And I humbly suggest I have not seen any evidence that anyone has yet comprehended the model of the universe in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If someone has please contact me and share it with me. I would be very, very interested to hear from you!
However everything is there in Srimad-Bhagavatam and it will be revealed by Krishna when He desires to someone who is sincere and serious and submissive and who is most importantly prepared to throw out all the garbage we have been brainwashed with from birth and start fresh with a blank slate.
There are many things we do know as facts from Srimad-Bhagavatam. As far as the earth Srimad-Bhagavatam does not describe it as a ball spinning in space.
In the Bhagavatam the earth is most certainly stationary. We can say that for an absolute fact. It is certainly not spinning or moving in any way. Because all the movements we see in the sky are explained in the Bhagavatam as movements of the wheel of time [sisumara chakra, which has all stars fixed on it in the constellations and that whole thing is rotating in the sky] and the sun, moon and planets move with the sisumara chakra but have their own independent movements also.
The wheel of time, a gigantic wheel consisting of all the stars, constellations, etc, all fixed in their respective places is connected to the wheel of the chariot of the sun god. It has an axle that rotates once every twenty-four hours. That causes the whole wheel of time to rotate 360 degrees in 24 hours. And this is the rotation that scientists mistakenly presume is the earth rotating. That is what makes the sun and moon and stars rise and set every day.
The axle of the sun god’s chariot is resting on the top of Manasottara mountain, which is a huge ring of mountains circling the whole Bhu-mandala island complex. In 360 days the axle of the sun god’s chariot moves all the way around the 360 degrees of the Manasottara mountains. This movement accounts for the different rising and setting positions of the sun, moon and stars, and also accounts for the seasons. So these two movements of the wheel of time, sisumara-chakra, prove that the earth is stationary and everything else is moving around the earth.
So that accounts for all the movements we see in the sky that the scientists presume are caused by the earth rotating.
As far as what the earth is, Srimad-Bhagavatam explains there is a plane called Bhu-mandala spreading out horizontally and it is concentric rings of land surrounded by oceans of various types. And Bhagavatam describes earth as Jambhudvipa [or part of the Jambhudvipa island] which is the central island surrounded by a salt water ocean. And that is what we experience the earth as. A land mass [that has been chopped up over time by various incidents described in the Bhagavatam [originally it was one land mass]] surrounded by a salt water ocean.
So there is no ball earth floating in space in the Bhagavatam.
So it appears the flat earth people are heading in the right direction but they are really not much better than the scientists. In scientific terms they are worse than the globe earth people because the globe earth people have a working model [which is wrong of course…] but they do have a practical working model which does predict most of what we observe happening around us. The globe earth model is a wonderful and ingenious model built by some of the most intelligent scientific brains. Unfortunatly it is wrong…
There are many faults with the globe earth model but it is a scientific model and it is the best model they have. Whereas the flat earth people have no scientific model at all. They can not present any scientific model. They all have different ideas when it comes to the details and when you try and test the partial models they put forward they are all faulty in so many ways.
But we can say for sure on the strength of the authority of Srimad-Bhagavatam the earth is not a globe spinning in space…
So the point is flat earth people and globe earth people are both useless because they are both trying to establish the truth based on their limited sense perception and their limited imagination.
Neither the scientists nor the flat earth people have access to any actual information as to how the universe is working. So it will never be possible for either group to ever understand using the faulty ascending process of knowledge. Both groups want to find the truth based on the power of their own intelligence, observations and research work. Both groups are ignorant that their observations, research and intelligence are all limited and faulty and this ascending process of knowledge will never lead to any actual knowledge.
Real knowledge descends from someone who knows. If we want real knowledge we have to find a person who possesses that knowledge in perfection. Such a person who possesses the knowledge can share it with us. This is the only way.
The Vedic literature, of which Srimad-Bhagavatam is the cream, the ripened fruit, is all written by Srila Vyasadeva. The spiritual master of Srila Vyasadeva is the transcendental spaceman Srila Narada Muni. Narada Muni travels throughout the entire universe and the spiritual world at his will playing on his musical instrument the Vina. Because Narada Muni is traveling everywhere he has full knowledge of the universe, the way it works and how it was created. He has heard all this information from his spiritual master Lord Brahma who is the engineer who built the universe, and he has seen the universe and its workings from all angles of vision.
So if we want to find out about the universe then we need to get the information from the engineer who created the universe, Lord Brahma, and we can get that through his disciple Narada Muni who has transferred it to his disciple Srila Vyasadeva who has most mercifully recorded this vital information in books approximately five thousand years ago.
The principle subject matter of the books of Srila Vyasadeva is not the structure of the universe. But there is an extensive discussion on this subject in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. He also mentions things about the structure of the universe in other places in the Bhagavatam and throughout his other books including the eighteen Puranas, 108 Upanisadas, Mahabharata, etc.
This system of acquiring knowledge is called the descending process. It is the only way to obtain real knowledge. You have to find someone who knows the subject matter and learn it from him.
For more information please go to:
http://prabhupadabooks.com/sb/5
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
Hare Krishna prabhu,
I’ve a question that, Shrila prabhupada somewhere said that earth is floating in the air and somewhere said that the earth is placed in the head of sheshnaag. Which one is correct? Please make me clear prabhu ji.
Yes Prabhu, we find apparent contradictions in the Vedas. But actually there are no contradictions. It is true that Srila Prabhupada in his preaching and explanations, uses the currently accepted idea of the globe earth spinning and floating in space and he speaks of the earth and other planets floating in space.
But on the other hand we apparently find quite a different depiction of Earth in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Srila Prabhupada affirms that this description of the universe we find in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam is an actual physical description of the universe. Not that it is an allegorical presentation. And in the Fifth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam the earth is described as being the central island of Bhu-Mandala, called Jambhudvipa. And Jambhudvipa is described as a flat and circular island.
So this concept of a flat earth is clearly described in Srimad-Bhagavatam, but we can not currently conceive of how the description of the earth in the Bhagavatam could be correct and at the same time produced the actual physical observations that we experience.
So we are bewildered as to how the description in the Bhagavatam could produce our actual perceived reality. However, we accept the description in the Bhagavatam as being correct, and the description in the Bhagavatam the earth is a flat stationary plane with the stars, planets, luminaries, etc, above rotating.
Even if you ignore the fact that the earth is described as being a flat plane in the Bhagavatam, you can’t ignore the fact that it is described as stationary. We observe two rotational movements in the sky, scientists describe these movements by suggesting that the earth rotates daily, once every 24 hours, and at the same time is rotating around the sun yearly, once every 365 days. Srimad-Bhagavatam also describes these two rotational movements, however quite differently. Bhagavatam says the 24 hour rotation is the rotation of the Sisumara Chakra which has all the luminaries we observe in the sky on its outer body, so Sisumara-chakra is rotating and as it rotates once every 24 hours everything in the sky is rotating above us. And the other rotation, yearly rotation, that is the whole Sisumara chakra moving on a giant axle that is rotating on the Manasottara mountain range and it is going around the whole circular mountain range once a year.
So Bhagavatam explains the two rotational movements we observe as movements of the Sisumara-chakra, movements of the heavenly dome, if you like, so that means there is no movement left for the earth. So no matter what shape you want to believe the Vedas says the earth is, you can not avoid the fact that the Srimad-Bhagavtam states the earth is stationary.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Actually Earth is definitely round in shape. We should also know that Vedas also talk of a round earth, because some of the old sculptings of Sri Varahaswamy (The Varaha Avatara), in India shows Him lifting a round earth. This means that everyone in India back then somehow or other accepted the round earth.
Yes. Of course. Everyone knows the earth is round. The question is if it is a round disc or a round sphere.
So Vedas does not describe the earth as a round sphere anywhere. It does, however describe the earth as the central island, a part of the central island, of Buhu-Mandala, named Jambhudvipa. So Bhu-Mandala is certainly a large round flat plane, more-or-less. And the earth is the central round island of Bhu-Mandala.
So whatever the earth is, it is very different from the image of a ball spinning in space that we have come to accept.
However it does not really matter, whatever shape the earth is, the problems remain the same and the solution to the problems is also the same, chant:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Round as pancakes and coins are round and flat. For sure not spherichal.
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
Please accept my obeisances,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada,
I dont really like to get into the debating part of this flat or ball volume earth. I understand that it may not be really important to talk about this but this theory really makes me curious.
Srila Prabhupada also wanted us to be well aware and understand Bhagavatam .
When I read Bhagavatam canto 5 I actually started drawing with respect to the different dvipas the islands and the ocean separating each of them.
Globe definition doesnt means its ball volume. Globe definition means round and the way Bhagavatam describes it makes the description look like a mandala. The dvipas separated by each ocean is like a whorl. Simply imagining it to be a puffy ball and vertical doesn’t make any sense to me where the liquids surrounding us on top would fall on our heads as jambudvipa is the first island in the center and the salt water the smallest one than other ones.
Makes more sense for it to be like a mandala or disc placed horizontally where entire description seems rational. planet comes from the word plane and plane surface is flat. Srila Prabhupada also spoke so many times a particular subject as per time place and circumstances. Can’t take things out of context!
Hare Krishna Prabhu. I most definitely have some devotees (two in particular) who have a solid understanding of the structure and working of this universe as well as the shape of the earth. I have been learning from them deeply, so much about this and the 5th Canto of Bhagavatam for the past few months. Shall I give you their information? They have both written articles and made videos about the information. I am in regular contact with one and have created a Facebook Group based on this very subject. Please let me know how I can best get in contact with you. Thank you Prabhu. Hare KRishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Mark
OK, so please explain to me the movements of the sun as we observe them in the sky all over the world, explain how we are experiencing day and night, explain the changing of the seasons. These are very, very simple points that are very easily explained by the proponents of the globe earth model. And their model predicts what we practically observe happening. So give me your flat earth model that explains these things and predicts what we observe happening.
There are many other points but start with explaining this to me.
I would be very grateful if you can do this.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Haribol Madhudvisa Prabhu.
In relation to your question about explaining the movements of the sun. I have explained this point in full, not only for our tiny earth island, but also for the entire array of islands out to Puskaradvipa. You can read these in full in my book Vyasadeva’s Vedic Universe Part 2. It is available on Amazon, or I can send you a free copy if you send me your email address.
I also have the first four chapters narrated and offer them for free via a download link on my FB page.
Wishing you well.
ys Rcd.
So Prabhu if you understand it please explain it here. I have read some of your writings here and there and have not detected any hint in what I have read that you have any understanding of how it works at all. You should be able to explain it in a paragraph or two. Like we can explain the movements of the sun and moon and earth in a paragraph or two in such a way that they actually quite accurately predict our actual observations of what is happening in the sky.
So if you can actually explain it I will be very happy. I am not going to buy your book. Why you have a secret explanation only available in a book that we have to give you money for? If you understand it why not explain it here?
My book, Vedic Universe Part 2, does not just explain the movements of the sun. Rather it gives verse for verse commentary from Chapter 16-25 of Canto 5. Also, it gives a summary of Chapters 1-15.
In relation to the sun. Science states that light only manifests within an atmosphere.
This statement concludes that sunlight, and what we see as the sun-globe, can only manifest within an atmosphere that is local to our earth island.
As light does not manifest in outer space, Srimad Bhagavatam explains that the sun illuminates the entire universe via its radiation.
In SB there are many lifespans given, and these are for the purpose of explaining how time is perceived throughout the universe.
Time is calculated in the form of entropy, or the death of the physical body, therefore lifespans up to that of Lord Brahma are given.
As there are various lifespans for people living on different islands and planets, the sun must manifest local to each island.
This implies there are many suns that are all manifest from the one original sun in outer space, via the sun’s electromagnetic radiation manifesting within the various atmospheres of Bhu-mandala.
You will find a full explanation of every single timeframe that is given in SB in my book. You are more than welcome to receive a free copy. Simply send me your email.
As far as my detailed study of SB goes, I have come to only two conclusions.
1. Both Sadaputa and I are correct in our understandings.
2. That I am correct and Sadaputa has misunderstood some aspects of Vyasadeva’s teachings.
(Sadaputa claimed that the Bhu-mandala explained in SB is a set of co-ordinates in space).
I am saying that it is a real place with a physical location called earth, and in this place are various atmospheres wherein the solar-system/7 planets (along with the sisumara) manifest above everyone as a replica of the one in outer space.
Sadaputa makes the assumption that Jambudvipa is comprised of various dimensions, and for this reason we cannot see the other tracts of land on our shared island. This statement however, is NOT supported by SB, and he knew this very well.
I say that there are only two dimensions in the universe. One is called earth, the other heaven.
Heaven, in my understanding, is found within the place we call the atomic world.
There are so many interesting aspects to the universe that are described in SB. However, one cannot understand these if one has a political or argumentative outlook. A sincere humble heart is required to understand esoteric subject matters.
Wishing you well,
ys, Rcd.
Therefore it’s easier just to accept Srila Prabhupada. “Not flat, it’s round” quote to Madhava. and go on preaching the sankirtan of Mahaprabhu. Haribol
Doesn’t matter if it’s a globe or flat? Well one is a lie and the other is truth. It’s a shame you’d rather choose ignorance than seek the truth…
Hare Krishna!
Hi Tim
It doesn’t matter if it is flat or a globe because in either case we are in the material world which is a place of misery where there is repeated birth and death. We need to get beyond the material world. We need to go to the place where there is no more birth and death and no more suffering. That is the spiritual world, the Kingdom of God.
We are only interested in it because Srila Prabhuapda, our spiritual master, asked us to build a Vedic Planetarium, to show the Vedic conception of the universe and defeat the rascal bogus scientists. We want to defeat the scientists because science is the religion of the atheists. So this Vedic Planetarium is supposed to expose the nonsense of the scientists and expose the truth. But the real truth is the material world is a place of misery, suffering and death, and we have to get out of the material world and go back home, back to Godhead, and the easiest and only way to do that in this age of Kali is by chanting:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
The shape of the earth makes no difference, in any case it is miserable place and we want to get out of it.
HARE KRSNA, HARE KRNA, KRSNA KRSNA, HARE HARE
HARE RAMA, HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA, HARE HARE
The shape of the earth does not matter, but rendering devotional service to the supreme personality of Godhead Lord Sri Krsna does. With this in mind, let us all agree that our world, in this degraded age of Kali, is being run by the lowest class of man and in their godless ways, they have given us a completely false cosmology, false historical timeline, false everything. Understanding this, it is also important to understand that practically every word coming from the flesh eating mouths of the conditioned souls who claim to control this earth realm are lies.
The earth is absolutely flat just as it appears to be and everything is quite nicely explained in the flat models that have time and time again proven to sufficiently answer every question which relates to cosmology. Anyone who thinks the earth is a spinning ball, or pear shaped is getting their information on cosmology from atheist demons such as Neil Tyson and not authorized texts like Srimad Bhagavatam. If any devotee would simply spend the required time necessary to learn the truth and subsequently unlearn the lies, their eyes will truly perceive the nature of this flat place we live in, but how could anyone have time to speak of such things or to research mundane topics when they could be rendering devotional service to Krsna?
Let us not forget that for pure devotees, the shape of the earth may not matter in the slightest, but for those conditioned souls and those on their journey of self actualization, the flat earth may very well be an essential component to their realizing a personal form of God. Therefore, I propose devotees remain indifferent to this divisive topic, especially in the presence of those souls who may be “flat-earthers” and seeking Lord Krsna. There should never be a time where we inhibit such a souls process just because we are desiring to hold onto outdated, preposterous claims which are force fed to us from atheist demons.
HARE KRSNA, HARE KRNA, KRSNA KRSNA, HARE HARE
HARE RAMA, HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA, HARE HARE
Yes. We should be able to explain exactly what the shape of the earth is and prove it. But we can’t at the moment. That is the problem. Right now we don’t properly understand the descriptions of the Srimad-Bhagavatam so hopefully we will be able to understand it properly and explain it at some point in time. That would be very nice.
But right now the globe earth people have got a valid working, for the most part, scientific model, and the flat earth people have nothing except sentiment. So unless flat earth people can present a valid working model they can not expect any scientifically inclined people to accept their ideas just based on sentiment.
I have written some things about this at:
https://flatearthfacts.com
So you can check there also and see what you think.
What about Surya Siddhanta… This is older than Tyson… Flat Earth youtubers cannot fit their little local suns into reality of our experience of the sky… Globe looks wrong and Nasa are demons…SB says you cannot understand cosmology with your senses…4th dimension…time… Time dilation… Creates illusion of differing movements of astral bodies… It’s not so simple as to accept Eric Dubay blindly…
Madhudvisa dasa Prabhu says in his comments on Feb. 03,2018 at 7.14 pm posting ;
“The globe earth model works well. We have no working flat earth model. And we do not really even know for sure if the Bhagavatam says the earth is flat. So we have to actually understand and comprehend the description of the universe in the Bhagavatam before we jump to any conclusions. ”
Srila Prabhupada does mention the Earth as a Globe only in context with the understanding exactly referring as per SB. 5-16-5 which reads ;
” The planetary system known as Bhū-maṇḍala resembles a lotus flower, and its seven islands resemble the whorl of that flower. The length and breadth of the island known as Jambūdvīpa, which is situated in the middle of the whorl, are one million yojanas [eight million miles]. Jambūdvīpa is round like the leaf of a lotus flower.”
So the Earth is a part of the Jambudvipa which is round like the leaf of a lotus flower NOT a GLOBE as the people at the TOVP in Srimayapur dham are building a model based on the Globe which is a total deception to the description in the Srimad Bhagvatam as described by our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada. That is a cheating. Isn’t it ?
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Amar
Problem is we have no idea actually how the model of the universe given to us in Srimad-Bhagavatam works. You do not understand it, I do not understand it and certainly the devotees building the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium in Mayapur do not understand it.
And this is massive cheating. Building a plaetarium based on the Bhagavatam without even the faintest understanding of what the bhagavatam says.
You can choose one verse as you have done here and say ‘got you’. But really you have no idea how the mechanical system that the Bhagavatam describes as the structure of the universe actually works. That is the problem. If you understood it yourself you could describe it and I am sure the devotees who are trying to build the Planetarium at Mayapur would be very happy to hear you explain it to them. Because they have no idea how it works.
So yes. It is stupid to try and build a planetarium that is supposed to explain to the scientists and astronomers of the world how the Vedic explanation of the universe works when you don’t even have the faintest idea yourself how it works…
So that is the problem. There is no possibility of building a Vedic Planetarium at the moment because we do not have a model of how the Vedic system works. That is the first step. First thing would be to research and build the model. Not that you make a big building before you even understand how it works…
Prabhupada, in many cases, accepted the earth as a globe floating in space, so we can not complain if devotees accept it like that. But it is clearly not a globe floating in space according to the description in the Bhagavatam, but we don’t understand that description. We can’t build a model that works according to that description. So that needs to be done first. First we have to understand it, build the working model, then build the planetarium and if we can actually build a working model that will be fascinating and the scientists, astronomers and thoughtful men will come from all over the world to see it. That is the point of the Temple of the Vedic Planetarium. But it requires us to be able to understand what is written in the Bhagavatam and build a working model based on that that explains the rising and setting of the sun, moon and stars, the changing of the seasons, etc, all over the world.
Currently we can not present any model, and currently the scientists have their very well developed and working globe earth model. So it is pointless to try to go against the globe earth model if you don’t have another working model to present for consideration.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Madhudvisa dasa prabhu, Srila Prabhupada has indeed used the word GLOBE many times in his writings, no doubt about that, BUT only in actual context of understanding the description of the Bhu-mandla as described in the SB. 5-16-5 and else where in His so many conversations when devotees asked for and Srila Prabhupada repeatedly said that how it is globe – a Lotus Flower with the inhabitants within as confirmed in the SB.5-16.3 as well.
Otherwise, taking and considering GLOBE in any other shape, size or style described by your goodself does indeed contradict Srila Prabhupada’s description of the Globe as per Srila Prabhupada’s VANI.
Moreover, a modern Globe is not even a working model which can not even describes the Luminary system and its eclipses take place the description of which are totally MISLEADING and cheating and thus, so much concoction for the currently scientists developed working globe earth model.
I came across this site ; vedic-cosmos-asitis.net which appears to describe the Lotus flower model as per Srila Prabhupada’s SB. instructions.
I wonder what you and others TOVP devotees have to say about the presentation, and why not take up the matter to discuss further in order to realize the dream of our Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada.
Awaiting to hear further at your end.
OM TAT SAT.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Amar Puri
With all due respects Srila Prabhupada has, at least for the point of preaching, accepted the globe concept of the earth. Prabhupada knows well that at present we do not understand the Bhagavatam’s description of the universe sufficiently to be able to explain it to anyone. So the point is we have to understand it first ourselves.
From my point of view I am totally convinced the Bhagavatam’s description of the universe is correct. But you can not just take one verse and quite it as you do. You have to read everything, consider everything, and actually understand how the universe works.
We do not have a working model, the flat earth people do not have a working model. The only working scientific model we have is the globe earth model and that works VERY well compared to anything we or the flat earth people can present at this point in time.
So until such a time as we can present a working model that works at least as well as or better than the globe earth model there is no point making a big noise about it because we don’t understand it ourselves and can’t explain it to others.
Actually the modern globe system describes almost everything quite nicely, including the way the eclipses are appearing to work. Yes. Of course I agree the globe model is created by so much speculation on the part of the scientists, and it is probably wrong, but you have to understand they do have a working model, and the globe earth model is a very good model in the sense that it predicts almost everything we experience happening around us. AND WE DON’T HAVE ANY WORKING MODEL….
That is the problem. So study the Bhagavatam, chant Hare Krishna, pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna that they will reveal the workings of the universe to you and then EXPLAIN IT TO ME. If you know how it works explain it to me. If you don’t know how it works then there is no point making a big noise and preaching about it because if someone asks you how it works you will not be able to answer.
As far as that website it is useless. Posts are by the moderator, about 20 only there, and just useless. He has no idea about how the Vedic cosmos works. The TOVP people have no idea. That is the problem. We have no idea how it works. We have to find out how it works. That should be our first business….
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Madhudvisa dasa, I have already sent a link in my last email. Perhaps, it has been over looked at your end.
Where is the need of such contradiction as pointed out in your comments which read ;
“Actually the modern globe system describes almost everything quite nicely, including the way the eclipses are appearing to work. Yes. Of course I agree the globe model is created by so much speculation on the part of the scientists, and it is probably wrong, but you have to understand they do have a working model, and the globe earth model is a very good model in the sense that it predicts almost everything we experience happening around us. AND WE DON’T HAVE ANY WORKING MODEL…. ”
As agreed by you that the Globe model of the Bhu-Mandala is speculative, how such a speculative model can be precisely workable model as described in the SB. ?
Hope you go through the link I have provided for you and then I humbly expect to receive your opinion on the working model of the Bhu-Mandala presented there as per SB.
By the way, as I have commented in my last posting that a modern Globe is not even a working model which can not even describes the Luminary system and its eclipses take place the description of which are totally MISLEADING and cheating and thus, so much concoction for the currently scientists developed working globe earth model.
Thank you for your input, Prabhu.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
You do not understand an you are speaking foolishly. The website you mention, whoever wrote it also does not understand, but is making a show of understanding, which is cheating. He is quoting so many things but has no idea of what they mean or how the system works. We accept everything the Bhagavatam says, that is not a problem. Even though we may not understand it. But as devotees we really don’t care if the earth is a globe of if it is flat. It makes no difference at all to us. We can chant Hare Krishna on a globe or chant Hare Krishna on a flat earth. This Temple of the Vedic Planetarium preaching is not for us. We accept what the Bhagavatam says without question and so does Srila Prabhupada. But, in his preaching work, Prabhupada so often refers to the earth as a globe. That is the way it is understood by the general public and they have a valid working scientific model to explain this globe earth. The globe earth model is very good, it may not be correct, but it is a very good scientific predictive model.
Because we do not understand the description of the universe given in Srimad-Bhagavatam we do not have a working model at all. You can read a verse here and there and quote it and speculate this and that. But that is also speculation. To explain it you have to be able to understand how the universe works according to the descriptions in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and you have to be able to form a valid working predictive scientific model based on the principles described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Without this there is no point talking about building a planetarium or preaching that the earth is flat.
Because, think about it, if you say that someone will ask you to explain how it works, and you have no idea at all how it works, neither does the person who made that website. It is just nonsense inspired by the nonsense flat earth movement not at all inspired by the Srimad-Bhagavatam.
So there is no point writing all the nonsense like ‘the modern globe is not even a working model.’ The globe model is certainly a very well developed working model. In contrast we do not have any working model at all. No one has yet been able to comprehend the description of the Srimad-Bhagavatam sufficiently to be able to construct a working model.
So my suggestion to you is instead of writing nonsense here READ THE BHAGAVATAM, CHANT HARE KRISHNA and try to understand it and how it works. And when you understand it come back here and explain it to me clearly and logically in a scientific manner.
You have to be able to explain properly how the sun rises and sets, day and night. That is not so easy. With the globe model they have been able to perfectly explain our actual experience of day and night, sunrise and sunset, all over the earth. The flat earth people can not do this. So we have to be able to explain this at least. How we experience the different lengths of day and night and the sunrise and sunset times in the different places on the earth.
The globe earth model explains very nicely what we see the stars doing in the sky both at the equator and at the north and south poles. At the equator if you look straight up you see the stars going straight across the sky, as you would expect them to be on a spinning ball. And if you look north you see the stars spinning around the polestar and if you look south you see the stars spinning around the south celestial pole in the other direction. As you would expect to see on a spinning ball. If you go to the north pole and look up you will see the polestar in the center of the sky with all other stars, the moon and the sun rotating around it as you would expect to see on a spinning globe. If you go to the south pole and look up you will see all the stars, moon and sun rotating around the south celestial pole, in the other direction, as you would expect to see on a globe.
You wouldn’t expect to see any of these things on a flat earth.
So in these ways and in so many other ways the globe model is a very good scientific predictive model. It is my considered opinion that this globe concept was created by Krishna. If the earth is not a spinning globe we are supposed to think it is because the globe model fits our observations so very well. The globe earth model is not a conspiracy by someone to hide the truth from us. It is what intelligent and thoughtful men, when contemplating what they see happening in the sky and around them, conclude must be happening.
It may well be an illusion, and based on what we read in the Bhagavatam it appears that in reality the situation of the earth is very different from a globe spinning in space. But from what we can observe it appears to us to be a globe spinning in space. So if we are to establish the conclusions of the Bhagavatam we first have to understand and comprehend what the Bhagavatam says. And you do not understand and comprehend it and neither do I.
So that is the first point. We have to understand it and understand how the mechanical system described in the Bhagavatam produces what we observe happening around us. And it has to be a proper working model at least as good, if not better than, the globe model.
So just do it. Understand and comprehend what is written in the Bhagavatam and when you do come back here and explain it to me.
Even a simple thing, just draw the map and explain the movements of the sun and explain how we experience night and day and the changing of the seasons and match that exactly with the actual recorded evidence we have of the sunrises and sunsets all over the planet during the year.
Otherwise, if you don’t understand it, if you can’t even produce a map and explain how we get night and day and the sunrise and sunset times all over the planet there is no point talking about it. That would be cheating.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Sorry, prabhu you have written the following which I just noticed only after sending my new reply ;
” As far as that website it is useless. Posts are by the moderator, about 20 only there, and just useless. He has no idea about how the Vedic cosmos works. …. ”
You have not asked any questions as to how the model presented there in the link I sent you is wrong ?
What are your objections as to what the moderator of the site has compiled the model of the Bhu- Mandala as per SB. description ?
Hope to hear further from you in this regard soon.
Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada.
There is no working model on that website at all. Just random quotes from Bhagavatam and other Puranas and website owner pushing his flat-earth philosophy that he has learned from Eric Dubey, not Srimad Bhagavatam…
Madhudvisa dasa,i wont believe that earth is globe spinning in space,Neither Lord Krsna said in any scriptures or any sages who are not the victims of 4 defects of conditioned souls. Srila Prabhupad for Preaching purposes explained this earth as ball globe spinning in space.U said that globe earth model works very well in predicting eclipses and other weather stuff,But that globe earth model or any other scientific theories and instruments were presented by athesist scientists who are victims of four sinful activities namely illicit sex,intoxication,meat eating and gambling-so they were victims of kali purusha(presiding deity of age of kali),and kali purusa business was to make one completely ignorant of god,by undergoing lifestyle based on all kinds of sense gratification and royal path to hell by such atheistic life.In 8th chapter of bhagavad gita Lord Krsna said physical nature is endlessly mutable,so in kali age tamas and rajo gun vibrations are predominant except the places where chanting the glories and holy name of lord krsna is done by pure authorised devotees.As for globe earth model is concerned it was produced by kali purusha exactly according to accurate occurences of eclipses,sunrise and sunset,weather statistics in such a way to convince people not to believe in authorised scriptures given by god.But our Vedic Astronomy also accurately predicts the appearance of eclipses when rahu and ketu, attacks sun and moon.If u are to say that earth is globe spinning in space then, what about sun?Is it statinary or moving ?According to our Srimad Bhagavatam distance between earth and sun is 100000 yojanas or 800000 miles,and sun globe revolves all around Sumeru mountain lighting all the Bhumandala with the Axle of its wheel and chariot supported by Manasottara mountain and Dhruvaloka. yes what u said is correct,no one was able to explain the working model of universe according to srimad bhagavatam,but globe earth model may be accurate for predictions but it is fake.
Hare Krishna Suryaravi
Nice to hear from you. You seem to have a good understanding about Srimad-Bhagavatam and the sun’s movements. Which is refreshing. I think in ISKCON generally no one has any idea about how the sun is moving. Bhagavatam is correct description and we can say for certain that earth is stationary. That is because we see two movements in the sky. One is a rotation about the polestar once every 24 hours and the other is the sun is moving in a circle and is seen in different places in the sky on each day of the year, returning to its starting position again at the beginning of the next year. Globe earth model presumes these two movements we see in the sky are caused by the rotation of the earth every 24 hours and the rotation of the earth around the sun once a year. But in the Bhagavatam it is very, very clearly explained that these two movements are not the earth moving. These movements start from the sun. The sun, as you have correctly pointed out, has an axle with one wheel resting on Manasottara mountain, out around the edge of the universe, coming in towards the center then it is joined to a second axle, one third the length of the first, that goes up at an angle towards the polestar. Then, I think, on that second axle, the sisumara chakra, which is described as like either as a dolphin swimming in space or a coiled serpent, is situated. So all the stars are located in various positions of the sisumara chakra which is connected to the axle of the sun god’s chariot, which rotates once every 24 hours, as the wheel turns on Manosattora mountain. It is a small wheel and the mountain is big so it takes 360 turns of that wheel for it to get back to the original starting point.
So the Bhagavatam clearly describes these two movements we see in the sky as being caused by the rotation of the wheel of the sun god’s chariot. Therefore what we see moving in the sky is most certainly NOT caused by the earth rotating.
The earth does not rotate. It is fixed. There is no question about that. If it was rotating we could detect that, scientists could detect it, but although they have tried, they can not detect any rotation.
So no one who claims to be a follower of Srila Prabhupada, can accept the scientiest’s ideas of the universe. Srila Prabhupada has told us the scientists are wrong on practically everything. They are demons, rascals, and science has been formulated specifically so they can put forward some ‘logical’ explanation of how everything has come into existence, and is being maintained, without having any intelligent direction behind it. So there ‘logical’ explanation is it all happed by chance, caused by a big bang that came from nowhere and was caused by nothing… This is stupidity, this is insanity, but because these ideas are put forward by the great scientists we are expected to blindly believe them…
So science is stupid. Because it is all built on a stupid principle. The who point of science is to prove that there is no need for God. But God is real and nothing can happen at all without His sanction. So science is stupid because the whole point of it is to prove a lie.
And Prabhupada has let us know the two areas where scientists are most incorrect. And they are 1) the origin of life [they say life comes from chemicals, but actually life comes from life] and 2) The structure and workings of the universe.
So practically everything science teaches us about the universe, the stars, the moon, the sun, etc, it is all wrong. And what is written in the Bhagavatam is correct.
So the earth is certainly not a globe spinning in space, because the movements attributed to the earth by scientists are attributed to the wheel of the sun-god’s chariot by the Bhagavatam. That EVERY follower of the Bhagavatam MUST accept. Earth is stationary.
And the Bhagavatam describes the earth as Jambhiudvipa, the inner island on the Bhu-mandala plane that is surrounded by an ocean of salt water. That is very clear.
But we are unable currently to come up with a functional working model for this, a model that we could present to the scientists for their consideration. So we can not say these things and expect anyone who does not already have faith in the Bhagavatam to believe it unless we can provide a practical working model and explain how it works.
So in that sense globe earth model is great. They have a working model, they can explain almost all the observations, with plausible, although incorrect, explanations. But globe earth model is a working predictive model. It makes predictions and we can test them with the actual observations of the universe and mostly the predictions are correct.
Also it very much looks like we are on a globe. I do not think that this model was created by the asuras as you suggest. I think Krishna has created this globe earth model for His purposes. That is how it works. Krishna give everyone intelligence, so He is giving the intelligence to the demons also. So Krishna has inspired the demons to come up with this globe earth spinning in space light-years away from anywhere where there could conceivably be any other living entities…
But it is a wrong idea certainly. But from our side we can not seriously challenge this wrong idea unless we can present our own working predictive model, based on the information provided by Srimad-Bhagavatam, that makes predictions at least as good as those made by the globe earth model.
So this is the reason that Srila Prabhupada and previous Vaishnava Acaryas have in many cases accepted the globe model.
It does not really matter if we are living on a globe or a plane, in either case the problem is the same and the solution to the problem, chanting Hare Krishna, is the same.
But now, because it is Srila Prabhupada’s desire that we build a Vedic Planetarium based on the description of the universe as it is revealed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, we have to work it out… Otherwise we will be like ISKCON, have no idea at all and still go on spending hundreds of millions of dollars. That is also stupid. Fist we have to understand it before we can build a Vedic Planetarium and before we can explain it to the scientists and to the world.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Prabhupāda: Take the version of Bhāgavatam.
(Discussions about Bhū-maṇḍala, July 5 1977, Vṛndāvana )
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jul/discussion_about_bhu-mandala/vrndavana/july/05/1977
Haribol.
Please accept my humble obeisances.
Srila Prabhupada was on a morning walk when someone asked him if the earth was flat. He replied: ” everywhere I walk it is.”
Why would he make light of that particular question?
He directly told devotees that no one had gone to the moon, which was inconceivable for anyone to say. But he spoke the truth.
Srila Prabhupada accepted the globe conception. At the same time he was searching for someone who understood the description of the universe in Srimad-Bhagavatam. So the point is we have no working model that explains our observations with the assumption that the earth is flat. So without that, without being able to explain scientifically how the earth is flat, without being able to provide a scientific predictive model as good as or better than the globe earth model at predicting what we observe happening around us there is no point saying the earth is flat.
The globe earth model works well. We have no working flat earth model. And we do not really even know for sure if the Bhagavatam says the earth is flat. So we have to actually understand and comprehend the description of the universe in the Bhagavatam before we jump to any conclusions.
YOU ARE WRONG!
What does Srila Prabhupada, our primary source of bona fide sastric knowledge, say about the form of the earth:
Just Like a Ball
There is a control… Just like here, in this planet, when you go up, you see it is ball, but in this ball there are so many controlling deities here also. President Johnson, prime minister of India, this and that and so many things. But when you go up you see just like a ball. So when you come here you find… ” (Lectures, Bhagavad-gita 2.12, Bhagavad-gita 2.12, New York, March 9, 1966)
Yes. Of course when preaching to the people we use the analogies for things as they are understood.
So in many cases we accept the common understand to explain things.
But the earth is NOT described as a globe in the Srimad-Bhagavatam at all.
Srila Prabhupada asked us to research this. He was looking for pundits in India who understood the Bhagavatam concept of the universe to explain it, etc. So the shape of the earth is currently not clearly understood by us. Yes, we can certainly preach using the current globe understanding. And yes, the globe model is a good scientific model in most respects. So there is no point in us preaching that the earth is flat unless we can actually prove it is at least a feasible theory by providing a working predictive model that scientists can appreciate. Which we can’t at the moment and the flat earth people are totally incapable of providing either.
So at the moment the only viable scientific theory is the globe earth model. So we need to understand the Bhagavatam description of the universe sufficiently so we can properly explain it in a way that can be appreciated by the scientists before we come to an real conclusions about what the shape of the earth is.
So it is unknown at the moment.
I’ve come across a number of people putting forth that you are not a devotee if you do not accept that the earth is flat. I’ll spare you telling you what I think.
Hare Krishna Philip
It is not relevant to being a devotee. The shape of the earth. Really we don’t care about the earth.
We care about Krishna and the spiritual world.
The flat earth people and the flat earth devotees are not able to provide any model that logically supports the idea that the earth is flat. So in this situation we can not expect the people in general to accept anything except the globe earth model because we have a functioning predictive model that explains almost everything we perceive using the theory that the earth is a globe.
Now it does not mean that the earth is a globe. And from reading the Srimad-Bhagavatam it does not appear that the earth is a globe.
So if we are actually devotees then we have to be open to the possibility that our theories about the universe and how things are may be totally wrong. And it does appear to me that the globe earth model is most likely totally wrong also.
But we do not really understand clearly what the Bhagavatam is describing the earth as, we have no functioning model that we can explain to the scientists to communicate the model in the Bhagavatam, etc, etc.
And Srila Prabhupada speaks of the earth as a globe in his books. So we can also speak of the earth as a globe. It is OK, why not?
So just chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
You stated above: ” I am not aware of anyone on the planet at this point in time who is able to understand the Bhagavatam’s description of the universe to the extent they can actually grasp how it works and where we are situated within it in sufficient detail. ..”
Considering that the Bhagavatam’s description is ie every respect so different from our “working model of the universe” and anything we know about the physical reality, cannot it be that it describes a different order of reality, e.g. one perceived by devas?
No. It is a description of how the universe works from someone who knows how the universe works. We have no idea how the universe works so our “working model” is completely wrong. We are like a frog in a well. The story is there is a frog who has lived at the bottom of a well that is only two feet across for his whole life. That well is his universe and all he has ever been able to experience is his well. He sees a circle up above his well which is sometimes blue sky, sometimes clouds, sometimes water falls down through that hole, and sometimes he hears the rumbling noises caused by the farmer’s tractor when he is cultivating his crops [of course he has no concept of farmer or crops, he just hears the rumbling noise sometimes…]
So armed with this ‘knowledge’ our Dr. Frog has come up with a very grand conception of his universe. Including outrageously incorrect explanations as to why the hole at the top of his well is sometimes dark, sometimes blue, sometimes white and why water sometimes falls down from it and why he sometimes hears rumbling noises…
But of course all his ‘scientific’ ideas a completely incorrect. He has just speculated some nonsense to make an explanation to fool himself into thinking that he understands what is going on around him.
But Dr. Frog can not understand anything because he has no experience, he can not see anything, he can not conceive of things that are beyond the ability of his senses to perceive and his mind to imagine.
So it is with our foolish scientists on this Earth planet. They have no information. They look up in the sky and see some lights moving around. But they have no ability to see anything really. 99% of the universe is completely hidden from them and the workings of the universe are completely not visible to them. So they are, like Dr. Frog, totally ignorant of what is going on around them and how it is working, but just to pretend to be big intelligent scientists, like Dr. Frog, they have speculated a grand nonsense plan of how the universe works, and they teach it to the ignorant masses of people who believe them…
So that is our position at the moment. We have been brainwashed by so much nonsense from the scientists so as a result we are completely ignorant and completely mislead as to where we are in the universe and how things are working around us.
The Bhagavatam describes our reality, our universe, but we can not grasp it because we have been so much bamboozled by the rascal scientists…
We believe their nonsense and that totally destroys our ability to see things as they actually are.
It is true that some of the descriptions in the Bhagavatam are given by demigods who have a different view, a different perspective of the universe. But from Earth we have no view, from earth we are like Dr. Frog. We can’t see or perceive anything about how the universe is working from here. So if we want to know actually how the universe is working then we need to hear from someone who actually knows how it is working. That description is in Srimad-Bhagavatam. It is a factual description of how our universe works. Not at all, ‘a different order of reality’. It is our reality.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Namaste Madhudvisa Prabhu,
thank you for your reply. It is dismal fact that no one today is capable of reconstructing the scheme of the universe as outlined in Srimad Bhagavatam. If there is no one capable today, it seems futile to expect to get some more insight in the future, as the future is only the deepening Kali Yuga, Dr. Frog’s angle of vision is destined to become even narrower and this precious ancient knowledge is already lost for good. You said, ” if we want to know actually how the universe is working then we need to hear from someone who actually knows how it is working.” Are not the Sanskrit commentaries of Vaishnava acharyas from 15th to 19th centuries of some help in this seemingly hopeless situation?
It is there in the Bhagavatam and it can be conceived by a pure devotee of Krishna with the inspiration of Krishna from within his heart if Krishna wants to reveal it to him. So it is not a hopeless situation. Anyhow the structure of the universe is a secondary thing. We do not care about it all that much, except that it is a great opportunity to preach and defeat the scientists and convince so many people of the authority and value of Srimad-Bhagavatam. That is our interest really, not that we are really interested in the structure of the material universe. We don’t care. We will chant Hare Krishna anyhow, if the earth is a ball we will chant Hare Krishna, if the earth is flat we will chant Hare Krishna, makes no difference to us…
But it is Srila Prabhupada’s vision to build a Vedic Planetarium to expose the ignorance of the scientists and to establish the correct actual description of the structure of the universe as it is revealed in Srimad-Bhagavatam to increase the glories and appreciation of Srimad-Bhagavatam among the thoughtful people of the world. That is the point.
So Krishna can reveal anything to His pure devotees. So the point is we have to become pure devotees of Krishna. Otherwise we can’t expect to be able to understand anything in Srimad-Bhagavatam.
So we have to at least accept the basic starting points: chant at least 16 rounds a day, strictly follow the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication] and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day.
Krishna consciousness is a serious thing and if we want to become Krishna conscious actually we have to take it very seriously, dedicate our lives to the service of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
If anyone wants to learn about the flat earth, check out Eric Dubay on youtube! He is a great teacher of yoga and advocate of vegetarianism and veganism! Flat earth is what initially woke me up to the nature of our spiritual world and eventually to KRSNA! If it wasn’t for the flat earth truth I most certainly would not have learned of the love of my life KRSNA!
Hare KRSNA!
Hare Krishna Thomas
As are as Krishna consciousness we don’t care if the earth is flat or a ball. Whatever it is we are here and it is a horrible nasty place and we want to get off this earth and go back home back to Godhead and the only way to do that in this Kali-yuga is by chanting:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
Yes. Eric Dubay is very interesting in regard to flat earth. However he is not a scientifically minded person. He just blindly repeats the things he has read in the old books like Zetic Astrology, etc, etc. And a lot of the stuff he repeats is just completely wrong and he does not understand the globe model that is presented by Western science either.
In reality, from the point of view of an actual scientific model that could be seriously considered, the globe earth model is the best we have by far at the present point in time. For a scientist to actually seriously consider something you have to present a model that really predicts what we observe happening around us. So for the large part the globe earth model is actually a good predictive model of what we see occurring in the sky above our heads for example. Of course there are many imperfections in the globe model but scientists accept this. But the point is globe model is the best model they have.
Eric Dubay, on the other hand, does not have any flat earth model that explains anything we see happening in the sky at all convincingly. Actually what he says is complete nonsense and completely incorrect also. He only tries to explain the movements of the sun and the moon. He says the sun and the moon are the same size and are about 3000 miles above the earth. It is nonsense. Stupid. And completely incorrect.
He says the planets are not real, just lights in the sky. Stupid. Nonsense.
He says the moon is not a globe, he says the moon is flat too. Crazy. The moon is a globe.
So what Eric Dubay presents is nonsense, so much nonsense. 90% nonsense. There may be 10% of what he says that may have some value. But what is the use if 90% of what he says is just crazy incorrect nonsense?
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
The Earth is very flat. Srila Prabhupada spoke and wrote in the context of the 50s 60s and 70s in a turbulent time when everyone was talking about supposedly going to the moon. We definitely did not go to the moon in 1969 and that is a fact. Nevertheless his teachings and metaphors based on a globe earth still resound with truth as spreading the message of KRSNA was his chief aim and not the shape of the earth.
Hare KRSNA!
I love you all!
: )
Hare Krishna Thomas
Yes. Really we don’t care if the earth is flat or round. But it does seem quite likely it is not round, in fact scientists admit it is not round, more like pear shaped they think, because it is bigger in the southern hemisphere than it is in the northern hemisphere. Which can not be the case it if was a globe.
So it is not a globe.
And it is not moving… That is completely obvious to us. The globe earth theory has the earth moving in at least three different directions and very fast at the same time. Now if it was just moving in one direction with no acceleration then you could argue that we would not feel or be able to measure that movement. But they say it is rotating at 1000 miles per hour and rotating around the sun once every 12 months, covering whatever the circumference of a circle with a radius of 93,000,000 miles is, a lot of miles to travel in 12 months, so quite fast speed. Plus they have the sun and the whole solar system moving very fast. So with these three different movements it means we could measure that. We could feel that we are moving. And we would be able to see that we were moving because the alignment of the stars, etc, would change. As we would be moving throughout the universe so we would be seeing the stars from different points of view.
So anyhow it is obvious we are not moving. Within 6 months we are supposed to be on the other side of the sun. So we are supposed to be 93,000,000 * 2 miles away, It is almost 200,000,000 miles. Now we can measure different star parallax, etc, just by moving a couple of thousand miles on earth… So if we did factually move 200 million miles in 6 months then that would be very very very obvious by looking into the sky. But when we look into the sky it seems that we are still in exactly the same position that we were 6 months ago…
So obviously the earth is not moving. That we can say for certain…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Agree and disagree. It’s not really important if it’s round or flat. But all available data shows it is round.
Hare Krishna Vrajaloka
Yes. Everyone agrees it is round. Even if it is flat it is round. The question is if it is a ball, a sphere, or not.
What we have is a very well developed predictive model based on the assumption that the earth is a ball spinning in space. But the same model could be adjusted using the assumption that the earth is stationary and everything else is revolving around it. There is no way we can actually know what is the real situation from within the system. We see a rotation of all the heavenly objects once every 24 hours. So this could be caused by the earth rotating, or it could be caused by the heavenly objects rotating. Either model matches our observations.
We get the information from Srimad-Bhagavatam that earth is stationary and the heavenly bodies are rotating around the polestar. So that clears it up. Earth is not rotating, the heavenly bodies are rotating around the polestar.
There is no way any scientist can prove or disprove this. Because the relative motion is the same. So the only way we can find out the truth is if we hear it from an authority who knows.
As far as the shape, that is not really clear at the moment. We know earth is part of Bhu-mandala, which is described as a plane, not a globe. So it does appear, that the Bhagavatam describes the earth as the central island of Bhu-mandala, which is surrounded by a salt-water ocean, and which has Mt. Meru, a golden mountain, in the middle. Mt. Meru is made of gold and is reflective like a mirror and there is also an outer ring of golden mountains which are also reflective like a mirror. So it appears when we look in the sky we see a reflection in these mirrors and the source of that reflection is the stars and planets which are rotating around the polestar, called the sisumara-chakra.
So these reflections in the mirrors provide the illusion that we are on a ball spinning in space. It is a projection. And those projected images do match with what we would expect to see if we were on a ball spinning in space. But the Bhagavatam does not describe the earth as a ball spinning in space, but it does explain how the illusion is produced that has convinced us it is a ball spinning in space.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
That’s just semantics and quite dishonest. I accept Srila Prabhupadas version of bhagavatam The only recorded time Srila Prabhupada was asked if the earth was flat. He answered. ” It appears flat BUT it’s round”. Thank you Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krishna Vrajaloka Prabhu
Srila Prabhupada’s vision is he wants us to study the Bhagavatam and find out what is the structure of the universe according to Srimad-Bhagavatam. He was trying to find out, trying to find someone in India who knew, etc.
Yes. Of course, generally Srila Prabhupada accepted the globe as presented by science. This globe idea is also there in India from a very long time ago. But the reality is when we read Srimad-Bhagavatam we do not see the earth being described as a globe. In the Bhagavatam the earth is clearly described as being part of Bhu-mandala, which, as Srila Prabhupada says, is round, but it is not a globe. It is a plane.
So if we are to explain the universe according to Srimad-Bhagavatam and build the planetarium that Srila Prabhupada wants us to build we have to somehow comprehend the description of the universe given in the Bhagavatam. And that is what Prabhupada wants us to do. Realize, with the help of inspiration from Krishna, what exactly Srila Vyasadeva is describing in Srimad-Bhagavatam in regard to the structure of the universe.
Prabhupada has said science is wrong on practically everything and the two areas where science is most incorrect is their idea of the origin of life [life comes from chemicals– rubbish actually life comes from life] and the structure of the universe.
The universe they have completely wrong. For example there is only one sun in this universe. Stars are not other suns, they are like the moon, reflecting the light of the sun. Universe is not so big. Total diameter is only 4 billion miles meaning nothing we see in the sky is more than two billion miles away. The earth is stationary. All the motions of the stars, planets, sun, etc, are explained in the Bhagavatam with two movements of the one wheel of the sun god’s chariot. This wheel rotates once every 24 hours, giving us the 24 hourly rotation we see in the sky around the polestar. And gradually this one wheel of the son god’s chariot makes its way around Manasottara mountain in 360 days. So that is the yearly motion we see and the cause of the changing seasons and varying lengths of days and nights. Also the sun has three different speeds. So we have to accept earth is stationary, near the center of the universe, only one sun, and dozens of other points that totaly contradict the currently accepted globe earth model.
So science’s current model of the solar system and the universe is certainly very, very wrong. We need to construct a new model, based on the descriptions of Srimad-Bhagavatam, that makes predictions at least as well, if not better than the globe earth model.
So if you are a devotee then you have to believe Srimad-Bhagavatam, and if you believe Srimad-Bhagavatam you can not believe the scientists.
As to the exact shape of the earth we see Prabhupada referring to it as a globe in numerous places. That is the accepted model. And we have no practical working alternative model. We don’t understand the model presented in Srimad-Bhagavatam, so realistically that is all we can do, unless we can comprehend the model in the Bhagavatam and use it to make accurate predictions as good as or better than the globe earth model.
So the truth is, at the moment we are not sure of the shape of the earth, because we can’t properly comprehend the description in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. But there is no indication whatsoever in Srimad-Bhagavatam that the earth is a ball floating in space. And it is certainly established in Srimad-Bhagavatam that earth is stationary and not rotating. And it is certainly established that the sun is rotating around a stationary earth, not that earth is rotating around the sun.
So there are so many things the scientists have wrong that we know for sure. Shape of the earth we are not sure, but we are certainly not sure it is a globe…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krsna Prabhu,
i was studying your book Sailing to Jambudvipa and consequent text also,its really fascinating.
I was wondering about the sun motion,and how is it possible that it travels on Manasotarra mountain, which so far awayand yet we can see it above our heads at summer,can you explain me this more in detail please?Is it that Sumeru mountain creates day and night for us?thank you for reply in advance, haribol
Hare Krishna Jan
It is not my book… Sailing to Jambhudvipa…
If we understood the motion of the sun as described in Srimad-Bhagavatam then that would be great. But we don’t. And I don’t think anyone clearly understands it at the moment, including the author of ‘Sailing to Jambhudvipa’.
It is my considered opinion that there is not much point trying to explain something you don’t understand yourself. So I do not speak very much about these things. I did create a website:
https://flatearthfacts.com
Where I basically go over the current Flat Earth ideas and so-called proofs and show that, for the most part, the 200 proofs the flat earthers have of the flat earth are not proofs the earth is flat at all.
We know from the Bhagavatam that the scientists understanding of the universe and the earth and its position within the universe are basically all incorrect. But still currently the only valid scientific predictive model we have is the globe earth model. So this globe earth model enables intelligent people to understand a system which could conceivably produce the observations we practically see around us. But it is just a model that has been constructed from our very limited observations that is able to predict these observations with a fair degree of accuracy. We have no way of going out and seeing actually what is happening…
But we know everything, more-or-less, is wrong in the scientific example. We know for certain, for example from the Vedic literature, that the earth is stationary. And we know the lumineries in the sky are rotating around the polestar every 24 hours and around Manasottara Mountain every 360 days.
So you know these things can not be very simply explained. I do not clearly understand the movements of the sun myself, so how can I put myself up as some sort of authority and try to explain the movements of the sun to you? That would be cheating. I do not understand it. And neither does the author of “Sailing to Jambudvipa”. So this sort of writing, claiming to be an expert on something you do not understand yourself, is cheating. And I am not going to do it.
I suggest you read the Srimad-Bhagavatam yourself over and over again and chant Hare Krishna and pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna for the realization to understand these things.
No one who is scientifically inclined is ever going to take the description of the universe as it is given in Srimad-Bhagavatam seriously until we can present a working predictive model at least as good as the globe earth model based on the principles described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. So that is necessary. Not these nonsense writings like ‘Sailing to Jambhudvipa’. First we have to understand it, comprehend it, ourselves, then and only then can we try to explain it to others.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Surely the earth is a globe because if you fly an airoplane in one rigid direction, any one direction, you go a all the way around to where you started. You may have to stop for fuel half way, but that is what happens. What do you think about that everyday phenomenon, please? I am a seeker of the truth although I also want to leave this material world one day, or in one lifetime.
Hare Krsna.
Yes. Globe earth theory is a nice one. Might be true. At least globe earth model, it has been explained to us in such a way, from our very childhood, so we can conceive our position within the solar system according to this model.
The globe earth model is very well developed and there are many observations, as you note, that reinforce and support this idea, that we may be situated on a rotating globe spinning in space.
But it is only a theory. The only theory we have been taught, so very difficult for us to conceive of anything else. To conceive of something we need a model, a framework, and the only model we have is globe earth. So generally people believe it.
Actually people don’t fly in airplanes around the earth in all the different directions. So really we don’t know what happens for a some of the directions. We can be fairly sure that things are working as expected for a globe at least in Northern Hemisphere. There are so many flights and flight paths there.
Anyhow I accept your point. Globe Earth model is very well developed, very well explained and has many, many actual observations which appear to confirm and reinforce the idea. So, at the moment, from the scientific point of view, Globe earth is the only working model and the only alternative.
Flat earth, even the best flat earther, they can not explain how the Earth could be a flat plane and still we could experience the things we do actually experience.
Our interest is we have another model, revealed in Srimad-Bhagavatam:
https://krishnastore.com/srimad-bhagavatam-set-original-first-edition-30-volume-h-krishna-502.html
Which proposes that the earth is the central island of Bhu-Mandala, a plane, called Jambhudvipa.
So we are trying to understand this model also, which we know is ultimately correct, but at this point at least, we are unable to conceive how it is correct…
I think it is very important that we understand that the Demons are trying to hide God. The word NASA means in Hebrew; to deceive.Devotees should know how to answer these questions based on the Srimad-Bhagavatam for our preaching work so that we can convince the non devotees who are being cheated.
Hare Rama
Sir,
-> Modern Science talks about Precession of Earth’s Equinox with 1 cycle of about 26000 years. But no mention of any Time Period or Age with an Extent/timespan near to Kshana,Yugas, Mahayugas, Manvantaras,etc.
-> They say that this precession causes the Different Stars to be North Pole Star. If the Pole Star is Dhruv (Fixed) as per the Boon given to Dhruv Maharaj by the Supreme Lord Millions or Billions of years ago, how can a Dhruv(Stable, Fixed) Star become a Revolving Star in just Few 1000 years; & how come different Dhruv Stars for different periods of same Manvantara ? This is conflicting with Shastras.
-> As per my Views, the Planets, Stars & other Heavenly Bodies called by the name of any Divine Being or God/Demigod is actually the Loka(Abode) in which that Divine Being resides as the Head with other Ganas,members,etc. Like Saptarshis reside in or near their respective stars. Sage Agastya lives in Star Canopus or a Planet near it. Dhruv Maharaj with Divya(Divine) Humanlike Body lives in Pole Star. Grahas with Body-Anatomy as mentioned in Shastras live in the Planets associated with them and so on. The Residences are perfectly suited & according to the Nature and Personality of their respective Residents ; as the choice of aperson’s home reflects his/her personality & vice-versa.
Thank You.
Hare Krshna
Hare Krishna Chawla
Modern scientists are fools. The do not know anything substantial. They just speculate and speak nonsense with big words and other fools are impressed by the nonsense and big words so they have become a little prominent. But they are fools, they know nothing.
The polestar is in the center and everything is rotating around it. Polestar will remain in the center and everything will keep revolving around it.
These scientists don’t know what happened 10 years ago. What to speak of 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 years ago. They are fools. They know nothing…
If you want to know something factual then you need to hear it from someone who has actual knowledge…
Raadhe Raadhe !
Sir,
Whether the Earth Rotates &/or Revolves or not might be figured out by an Experiment.
If one takes a solid sphere like a rock,etc & connecting it to a centre like Merry-go-round which can Revolve around a centre with 365 days/revolution speed plus make 1 rotation on its 23.5° Top-Bottom axis in 24 hrs.
In which a human can be seated & laid down on it’s surface with a seat belt (Sphere to be sufficiently large so that person feels as if on plane surface while he/she lays down). Placing this apparatus in a Zero-Gravity Chamber with an optional Artificial Gravitational/magnetic or any other attractive force (Apparatus may be much more sophisticated but I don’t have deep knowledge of Physics & all that).
The experience of the Person may at least give a vague picture of the phenomena.
I personally think that the Earth doesn’t Rotate.
Thank You.
Hare Krshna !
Yes. You are correct. Earth does not rotate. That is a fact for sure. We see everything rotating around the earth. Earth is stationary.
If the earth is not spinning You have to tell the Geostationary orbit satelite to stop run after the earth spin.
If the earth is not spinning then the Geostationary satellites are stationary… This is much easier for them, to stay in one spot rather than the very complex task of always remaining exactly over the same spot.
Hare Krishna.
According to me, the earth is globe, perhaps it indicates that whoever on this earth wants to move forward on it physically, one day or other he will come back to the same place left at the beginning, that is, in other words, or in figurative sense, the birth and death cycle. but if the earth would be flat you would not return back, but more forward. God has created everything with His intelligence, it is a question of understanding this mundane world, there is a reason behind every creation.
Hare Krishna.
No, you would also get back to the same place. Running around your neighborhood doesn’t prove it to be a sphere. The world can be flat, but with a circular dimension to it. For example a disk, in that way, you can go east or west and come back on the same spot without returning the same way. You can go in two directions without a problem. Cos you have to navigate using something, you can’t just say, that you go east or west, you have to relate to something..
SB 3.23.43 : PURPORT :
“All the planets are here described as gola, round.”
London, July 30, 1973 : 730730BG.LON :
Prabhupāda: Flat. Flat, yes. But in the Vedic śāstra, millions of years ago it is mentioned: bhū-gola. Gola means round. Just see. And these rascals say that formerly people were not so intelligent. They are intelligent because they are thinking that this world is flat. And those who have spoken millions of years ago, “It is round,” they will have less intelligence. Just see. Bhū, gola. Gola means round.
Yes. Round. It is round for sure. But round does not necessarily mean globe…
You need to read the Bhagavatam Prabhu and try to understand the description of the universe as it is presented there and try to throw out all the nonsense we have been brainwashed from birth with.
One thing we can know for certain is what we have been taught about the universe by modern science is wrong.
But exactly what the earth is, exactly what the shape is. I can not tell you at this point in time because so far at least I am also unable to comprehend the Bhagavatam’s description sufficiently.
But clearly in the Bhagavatam there are planets floating in the sky, but there is another structure also that is spread out as a concentric series of islands and oceans. This is a plane, not a globe. And from reading the Bhagavatam you will find on this plane there are many cities, many heavenly places, many demigods are living there, etc, etc. So we can not see this. And it would appear that the earth is on that plane, in the center island called Jambhudvipa. Which is round. But not a globe…
So the point is we have to keep our minds open and reject the preconceived ideas of modern science. Just because the scientists tell us it is a globe we can not believe them unless they can prove it.
And they have done a good job really and have put forward quite a reasonable predictive model which does, for the most part, predict what we see happening in the sky. So flat earth people have no model and no clear idea at all how anything could work on a flat earth. So as I have said they are more-or-less useless. It is just another sort of speculation like the scientists. But we have the real description. So if we can just put aside the brainwashing of modern science and believe what is written in Srimad-Bhagavatam is the truth, then we can solve this issue.
We can say for sure that the scientists are wrong. And we can say for sure that the flat earth people have no clear idea, no predictive model, nothing except some blind faith that the earth is flat… And we can’t understand the description of the universe in the Bhagavatam at this point in time… But we may in the future… By Srila Prabhupada’s and Krishna’s grace. So until we understand it we really can’t say much about it…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudivsa dasa
Haribol. In the above comments by Srila Prabhupada when he uses the word “round” it is in opposition to the word “flat”. Therefore it means dimensional round (globe) not flat round. This is obvious if you understand English. So Prabhupada is explaining the earth is a globe as he does on many occasions. We may not be sure what Bhagavatam says but we know emphatically what Srila Prabhupada says. Globe. Round. Not flat.
Yes. Prabhupada accepted the globe concept of the earth in many places he says ‘globe’, so that is true. But round does not mean globe. Round means circular. A globe is circular so it is round. But so is a circle. A circle is round but it is not a globe. So ROUND does not mean GLOBE… You need to look it up in an English dictionary and check it.
Hare Krishna Prabhu ji
Dandwat Pranam…
Very Scientific article…. Please Send me Such Nice article in Future too…
Thank You Prabhuji
Hare Krsna Prabhu. I find this very interesting. While standing in my very small orchard,I have felt for some time now that the earth wasn’t moving at all and that things were actually moving around it instead. I had this realisation without any knowledge of what was written in the vedic scripture so reading your post has confirmed my feelings. We are so ignorant of so very many things and much of the education we have received at school etc., is perhaps a partial truth or completely false. We cant blame the teachers as they have had the same education as us! As you say, best to focus on leaving the planet forever through bhakti yoga, but at the same time we must remember that Krsna may choose to put us back on the earth as his servant in order to teach. I feel that even wanting to go back home could be a desire for many rather than desiring to just serve Krsna which means serving him anywhere. If he chooses to take us home forever so be it but ultimately we should desire to just love and serve Him. Jesus and many other great souls have been asked to make the sacrifice of leaving the spiritual world to try and raise the consciousness of fallen souls and we must be prepared to do this now and after we leave the world. All glories to the Supreme Lord.
Hare Krishna!
Sir, ( As you teach me and I follow )
I am independent theoretical researcher on time, dimension including structure of universe.
Everything that is written in our vedic text is undoubtedly correct and that is my guide.
Every findings in our material world is pinpoint part of what is already acknowledged in vedas.
Like we know from thousands of years about Multiverse ( As Supreme God inhales and exhales , universes are formed and get destroyed respectively . In our world Scientists came to this idea in 1952 and they are not sure . but I agree that there is multiverse . There are so many examples of inventions and findings that are simply stated in Vedas.
This is my job and I know what to prove but
I need knowledge to prove it and let world to know what is all about spirituality to modern scientific way.
I want to know about picturizing the structure of multiverse thought the center of our universe’s earth by all details portrayed in Vedas . A perfect structure of “Existence” that is “Vedically” perfect and scientifically bounded so no one can argue about it ( even a lay man).
I need to know how to upgrade my knowledge through a simplest way that is possible.
This would be so kind of you to answer me through some reference book except Mahabharata , Srimad-bhagvatam and Bhagwat Gita.
Thank you and hare Krishna!
Hare Krishna Chandra
There are many different models of the universe in India and around the world and they have various degrees of usefulness for certain purposes.
For example in India there is Suraya-siddhanta which is an astronomical study but with the purpose of accurately predicting the positions of the planets and other heavenly bodies for the primary purpose of calculating astrological charts.
So these systems of predictive astronomy are useful to the degree they are able to accurately predict what we see happening in the sky. But a predictive model is not necessary an accurate model of the system it is predicting.
Really the only authoritative information we have on the actual situation of the universe is in the writings of Srila Vyasadeva. Outside of this you will find so much but it is all contradictory and while it may be useful for certain practical purposes, it is not an authoritative presentation of the actual workings of the universe.
So you will only find what you are looking for in the books of Srila Vyasadeva, that means the Vedas, Puranas, Upanisads, etc. Which of course includes Bhagavad-gita, Mahabharata and Srimad-Bhagavatam. The knowledge is all there in these books of Srila Vyasadeva.
But it is very difficult for us to comprehend it as we have been so thoroughly brainwashed since birth with the blue marble spinning in the sky that it is hard to consider anything else…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna, Prabhu.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and to you.
It was an excellent email on Flat earth. After reading Srimad Bhagavadam,
I am convinced that the earth is flat surrounding by various kinds of seas.
There are wonderful living entities living on this earth beyond the salty sea water.
There are milky sea, yoghurt sea, pure water sea, Liquor sea, Ghee sea and so on.
I found some info about the various seas and the living entities live beyong this salty
sea in Vishnu Puranam. It is really nice reading your message. No one can understand these things without being a devotee of Krishna.
Hare Krishna,
All gloties to Lord Sri Krishna and his devotees.
Hare Krishna Prabhu.
Please explain what exactly are the Sun planet n moon planet, when we call them as planets, are they lands on a mandala which are spread out?
& What exactly happens during Eclipse? if earth is flat. then how are eclipses formed?
Does Narsinghadev have any abode?
Pls answer them.
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krishna Tejal
Devotees know all these things because they are clearly described in Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.
So please read Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam and you will know the things correctly also.
Krishna Himself personally states in Bhagavad-gita naksatranam aham sasi: “Of the stars I am the Moon.” So Krishna is clearly telling us the stars and the moon are the same thing. The stars are not like the sun. It is clearly described in Srimad-Bhagavatam that there is only one sun in each universe and the light of that one sun is distributed all over the universe. These things: sun, moon and stars, are not lands on a mandala spread out. They are as they appear to be, heavenly bodies moving in the sky. And they are inhabited also. But they are not part of the bhu-mandala system that the earth is part of. They are above us.
As far as the eclipse there are two kinds of eclipses. One is when something comes in front of the sun and blocks the light. We presume that is the moon, because it is the same place in the sky where the moon is. So it is very natural to conclude that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon coming in front of the sun. But actually this is not what is happening. Srimad-Bhagavatam informs us that Rahu, a dark planet that is generally invisible because it does not reflect light takes advantage of the shadow of the moon to remain hidden in the sky. So the Rahu planet travels in the sky in the ‘shadow’ of the moon. So when the astronomers see stars eclipsed in the sky they know it is being caused by the moon, so they are not surprised. But Rahu is very tricky. He takes advantage of this area in the sky where the moon is eclipsing the stars. So Rahu moves in this area therefore he can not be detected. The only time we can see Rahu is at the time of a solar eclipse, in that case comes between the sun and the earth and the moon actually is going behind the sun. The moon is very big and far away, the sun is smaller than the moon and closer and rahu is still smaller and is the closest planet to earth.
The other type of eclipse is when a shadow comes on the moon. This is not like the solar eclipse which is a solid object coming between the earth and the sun, Lunar eclipse is different, it is just a round shadow on the moon. So that is the shadow of rahu, rahu comes between the sun and the moon and causes that shadow. This is possible because lunar eclipses happen on the full moon and at that time the sun is on the exact opposite side to the moon. And rahu passes between the sun and moon and causes the shadow on the moon. It comes in various degrees, sometimes quite noticeable and sometimes hardly noticeable. It depends on how exact the line up between the sun moon and rahu is, if it is a perfect lineup that is the maximum lunar eclipse.
Yes. Of course Lord Nrsimhadeva has His own abode.
This is the way things are. The scientists and astronomers have no idea actually. They only have a two dimensional view of the sky. The have no idea at all what is distance of the objects they see in the sky or what is their actual size. In reality it goes earth, rahu, sun, moon, but they have wrongly guessed moon then the sun and they are totally ignorant of the existence of the rahu planet…
And they have made the sun very big and the moon quite small, when in reality the moon is very big and the sun is smaller…
They have no idea of the size of things in the sky or the distance. The moon looks like it is the size of a dinner plate when we look at it in the sky. But we know it is actually bigger than that…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Very interesting Prabhu, Thanks for the explanation.
I want to know about the sunset and sunrise Prabhu, i.e if Earth is flat. then there should be Sunlight 24 hrs a day right. So how can earth be both flat and globe at the same time?
Hare Krishna.
Hare Krishna Tejal
You need to study Srimad-Bhagavatam to understand this.
The real problem is we do not understand it enough to prove it is correct or to explain it properly and convincingly to the scientists at this point in time.
But as far as I can see from reading Srimad-Bhagavatam, hopefully you have the basic idea, I don’t think you do actually, otherwise you would not ask such a question, so it is not possible to explain it here in a few paragraphs… Please read the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This point, about sunrise and sunset is clearly explained there. Read it.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Prabhu…. I am reading all the conversation… I like how you speak.. mostly… about the fact that no-one seems to know what is going on. And it is true that the globe model is working and flat earthers do not have a working model. Within there community there are more intelligent people than others… and also within those who believe in a globe… you see that people say moon’s phases are caused by Earth shadow.. so you see people in general don’t have much of a clue..
but here you say Rahu is in shadow of moon then you say moon goes behind Sun and it is further away….. what…
Has anyone ready Surya Siddhanta… which Bhaktisiddhanta studied and taught.. it teaches explicitly the Earth is a globe.. that the moon is small…. and causes the sun eclipse… and that Rahu is a node.. a place in the sky.. not a physical planet…. the difference between the Surya Siddhanta and modern globe astronomy is that Surya Siddhanta is geocentric and now we have heliocentricity thanks to Copernicus and Kepler… but they have just a theory… Brahe was closer to Surya Siddhanta .. and both talked about epicycles which the planets move in to produce retrogrades….. To say… scientists are rascals is stupid religious talk…. they have been studying the skies…. like you say.. there is not a flat earther who can give a working example…. but maybe somehow the paradox is possible… Surya Siddhanta is way older than freemasons… if devotees want to debunk they should debunk Surya Siddhanta which says that Puranas are fantastic…. maybe PUranas speak dimensionally… not physically… Surya Siddhanta also talks about worlds in our world which would give Hollow Earth theory more credence… Nasa look to be lying about things… but can we know a liars mind…. we should focus on truth.. and yes.. we should understand what we are talking about before building a massive construction to show people…. anyway.. that is Iskcon.. i left there years ago after its leaders showed disgraceful disrespect to pure devotees… Radhe Radhe
Yes. Surya Siddhanta is different to the Vedic descriptions of the structure of the universe given by Srila Vyasadeva in his various books including Srimad-Bhagavatam. So it is our business to work with the model given by Srila Vyasadeva, not the model in Suriya Siddhanta. I am not sure if SS actually says the things you claim so please provide the actual quotes from SS to back up your claims and I will check.
But you have to understand Srila Bhaktsiddhanta was a great astrologer and SS is a model used by astrologers for predicting the positions of the various heavenly bodies at various times. It does not claim to be anything more than a predictive model that works. SS was never meant to be a description of the actual system, it is a calculation method that astrologers use to get the accurate positions of the heavenly bodies at any point in time.
So SS is not the authority, the books of Srila Vyasadeva, principally Srimad-Bhagavatam, is the authority. So according to SB eclipses are not caused by Earth, they are caused by Rahu, and Sun is smaller and closer and moon is larger and further away. So whole Western astronomy system we accept is totally wrong.
They have no way of actually knowing what is going on. All we can see is some lights moving around in the sky. What they actually are and how they are moving, it is just speculation on our part. The only way we can find out what is actually happening is to hear about it from someone who actually knows how the system is working. And Srila Vyasadeva knows so what he has written in Srimad-Bhagavatam is correct. That is certain.
SS does not claim to be anything more than a model that works to calculate the positions of the heavenly bodies for astrologers. It is like a slide rule for astrologers. It does not talk about how the system works, it is not interested in that, it is just interested in accurately predicting the positions of the heavenly bodies at particular times. And it works in that sense.
Yes. Nice. The earth is described as a globe by AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktusiddhanta Sarasvsti a prabhupada. That’s good enough for me.
Jay Prabhupada.
Very nice article. One of the best explanation of wheel of time I have come across. And you are right the Planetary system of Bhagwtama is not understood by anyone in the planet and what they are creating now would definitely be scene as a fanatasy land and nothing real.
Sir,
Still I have been failed to understand that whenever the all teachings, every preaching, universal lectures, divine dialogues, and above all the incarnations delivered their guideline to accept, adopt, accord, follow, and do good, hold truth, act honest and be pure without corruption then why non are made of such materials ?
Every Epics, Each Books, Spiritual Memento say do good to the humanity but the human follow brutality, corruption, dishonesty and such these ?
Hare Krishna Anil
It is because this material world is like a prison. Only criminals are sent to prison. So when you go to a prison you generally find the people there are not so nice. So only criminals are sent to the material world. As in a prison there is only a very small percentage of the population within the walls of the prison, so in the material world also there is only a very small percentage of the total population. The majority of the living entities are very blissfully engaged in serving Krishna in the spiritual world. The ones who rebel against Krishna and want to become gods themselves are sent to this material world. That is us. We are criminals in a prison. So we can not expect people to be very nice here…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
All that is written in the Srimad Bhagavatam is important. Viasadeva wrote it, Sukadeva Gosvami narrated it, Maharaj Pariksit and sadhus have listened to it. So the topic of the flat earth is as important as all the other topics discussed in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Especially for neophytes devotees like us is more important to understand the creation of the universe that the rasa dance of Krsna with the gopis. To understand Srimad Bhagavatam we have to meet or become ourselves a realized soul. It ‘s very interesting to remember that Srila Prabhupada considered important to the planetarium project in Mayapur. It ‘clear that it will be very useful for preaching. Let us then to do to understand how it really made the universe, including the earth. It’s important. Hare Krishna.
(Sorry for my English. I translated it with Google.)
You are totally wrong in saying scientist discoveries are useless. They are true, totally logical and with proof. I am a Krsna Bhakt, but I can’t stand to see any stupid objection against a scientist and any scientific discoveries.
It may even happen that theories about a stationary earth are just someone’s imagination and not a reality. There are no proofs supporting it.
Reply please.
Hare Krishna Karan
You can not get any real knowledge through science. That is because the scientific process depends on information perceived through the senses and the senses are imperfect and the information we perceive through them is incomplete. You have to decide if you are a Krishna bhakta or a science bhakta. You can not be both. Either we accept knowledge from Krishna or we accept nonsense from science. If you want knowledge you have to get it from Krishna. If you want nonsense, that is available in huge quantities from science. If you want to know the origin of life Krishna informs us that He is the origin of life. Science claims life comes from a random chance combination of chemicals caused by nobody and with no purpose… Total nonsense.
So you have to decide if you want knowledge or nonsense. You can get knowledge from Krishna, nonsense is available from the scientists.
Very nice point you brought about. At some point you have to switch to the Vedic view point of the world after your convinced with the Vedic wisdom and philosphy.
Totally agree. To claim that a random incident created life, then it’s like saying that a huge library with thousands of books was the result of an explosion at the offset printers work shop.