Women–Materially Speaking–Are Less Intelligent than Men
When we speak of differences between the genders we are only speaking of the material differences. Spiritually there are no differences. But in the body and the material mind and intelligence there ARE real differences between the sexes. Many of these differences have been verified by different university studies…
Ragunath Prabhuji,
Thank you for sending me your posts.
While there is much merit to what you say, and you have good motive for what you say, I do hope you are not offended by me offering my different view. I am not in full agreement with you on these topics. There are valid reasons. I ask that you try to consider the reasons before making misjudgments.
Not all men who may espouse that “materially”, in the mundane view, men are by nature more intelligent then women, are all misguided fallen souls entrenched in their male egos, who delight in suppressing and taking advantage of those who are far below their lofty superior being.
Nor did many of these devotee men come to KC with these mundane ideas, simply not been able to shake them off in favor of the higher transcendental knowledge of spiritual equality. But, rather, it is Srila Prabhupada and Vedic scripture and culture itself that teaches us BOTH the material differences AND the spiritual equality.
The science of Daivi-Varnashram-Dharma is to understand and act, where needed, on the platform of Spiritual Equality, and yet also, side-by-side, to also understand that materially there are differences and that society must recognize and accommodate those differences when and where needed.
There must be a full and proper understanding of Both sides.
The soul is neither male or female (ultimately female in relation to Krsna). Neither is the soul brahman, ksatriya, vaishya or sudra. Yet, for purpose of “managing” the society, Vedic culture, Krsna, and SP, all make distinction between the classes. VAD. On one side Krsna teaches in Gita that the transcendental sage sees equally (SPIRITUAL Vision) the brahman, cow, dog, dog-eater, etc., on the other hand Krsna teaches that it is He who has created the system of VA – dividing society into 4 varnas and 4 ashrams according to one’s MATERIAL qualities. A transcendental sage sees with equal vision – only on the Spiritual platform. But at the same time he teaches and guides society to adopt and follow the social system of divisions, VAD – which DISCRIMINATES based on our MATERIAL qualities.
There have been deep rooted social problems in iskcon’s fledging society. No doubt. Problems stemming from both imperfect spiritual vision and improper knowledge and maturity on how to view and engage the material differences. But, really, it isn’t that big of a deal. The problem is not that the system is too hard to implement or to difficult to grasp. The problem has been with either our being too near sighted in vision and not seeing the obvious, or in being overly intelligent and thinking the system is far more complex then it is.
The problem has been how to balance both the transcendental vision with the practical managment of the material differences. Those who use the material differences to supress others, abuse others, take advantage of others are obviously lacking in spiritual vision. On the other hand, those who try to manage the external material dealings of social intercourse by ignoring the material differences and classes and try to artificially make a classless society are also lacking in Vedic vision and insight. Krsna taught us that HE has created the system of VAD and all great acharyas, including SP, have taught that society will function, on the material level, best, only when this system of VAD is recognized and followed. It is a balance of BOTH spiritual vision of spiritual equality mixed with discrimination based on material qualities.
This is where I see we disagree – and correct me if i am wrong. But, in your essay all i am seeing is argument for the Spiritual Vision side of the equation. Prabhuji, I have also been studying VAD – especially social DHARMA aspect of it – for way over 15-18 yrs. I have studied the Vedabase as well as compared notes with the Manu Samhita, etc. and SP’s teaching always included this balance of seeing equal spirit souls along with discriminating according to material qualities and engaging according to those material differences. He taught both things, and both sides must be there for society to go on nicely. The whole basis of VAD is to discriminate and classify according to material qualities.
Maybe some devotees lacked in the spiritual vision – understanding of spiritual equality aspects and driven and controlled by their false egos misused Vedic teachings of discrimination to take advantage of women, children, etc. However, all that i am able to gather from your writing is the Equal Vision, with no balance of material discrimination. Society cannot be managed under such a classless system. Not even Iskcon, an institution designed to teach spiritual knowledge and values, because it is functioning within this material world. Too many of the members are still very much conditioned souls. It is not possible to properly manage a “material” society (which the ashrams and varnas are all apart of the material aspects, discriminating via varna and ashrama – that is all material discrimination, the soul is not brahmana or sudra, nor brahmacari or grhasta) based only on equal vision of the soul. There must be a mature balance, and i do not see that at all in your writing.
You want to portray your essay as being “Krsna Conscious” – so i would assume that you mean that it is in-line with the teachings of Srila Prabhupad, however, your views do not reflect the proper teachings and understanding of SP’s teachings. You have made a mockery of the idea that materially speaking women are not as intellectual as men. Where as Srila Prabhupad has many times made this discrimination. When we are speaking of such differences between the genders we are only speaking of the material differences, the differences that the conditioning of the material bodies place on us. Obvioiusly, spiritually there are no differences. But, bodily, and that includes also the material mind and intelligence, there ARE real differences between the sexes. Many of these differences have been, at various times, verified and recognized by different university studies in modern times. I do not have the references, but I read (nearly 4-5 yrs ago) that for many years there has been a large vacuum of women in the upper medical fields. Most all (if not all) heart surgeons are male, neurological surgeons, etc., mostly all male. This “unfair” discrimination was noted years ago, and so the universities undertook many programs to try and close the gender gap. Also, the same was found in the higher degrees of quantum physics, etc. There was a serious imbalance of men to women. Many efforts were made to close the gap. In fact, a coordinated effort of all leading medical universities in the nation was made to do ‘something’ about this. So, for many years they set quotas so that many more women would be admitted to the higher courses then men, this was done in an attempt to turn out more women so that the numbers of men and women would become more equal. In doing this many men who met all the qualifications were, for years, kept out of the classes and courses for these higher, and tougher, studies.
The result after many years of such efforts? Still, very very few women have made it. I can’t recall if there are yet any women heart surgeons, at least it is very few if any. Why? Because the women could not complete the courses. They fried out along the way. The courses were too hard – to much intellectual information. Studies were done, but these are kept QUITE so as to not be used against the colleges for being sexists, but what was found was that women were just not able to grasp and compete side by side with men in such demanding intellectual studies.
In fact, in the higher learning of physics many of the men who were doing well in their grades still ‘partied’ on the weekends and would take off time for sports or leisure activities, yet during the fewer hours they studied were able to assimilate far more and to greater depths. While, most all of the women taking such courses had to tune out all other social activities, took no leisure time, simply had to dedicate 100% of their full time and effort into their studies just to try and keep up with the pace and depth of studies their male counterparts were able to do with less time and effort expended. As soon as the women took time off and social breaks, as the men did, their comprehension of the higher course material dropped significantly. What happened is the women simply “burnt out”. Once they burned out, they would be forced to drop out from the higher med classes (or higher physics).
But, because the universities were working conjointly to give most of the seats to women in the classes, and most of them fried out and dropped out, what has happened is a shortage of higher educated doctors now exists.
Anyway, the point is that there are many such evidences that when it comes to in-depth intellectual understandings women and men have Different material abilities. Is that so hard to accept? Our bodies are different. Our breasts are different, our sex organs are different, our emotional balance is different, our aggressive or meek behavior is different. All these differences are caused by the bodily covering. In fact, some are chemical. Male and female bodies produce different levels of hormones that cause many of these differences. When women are given large quantities of testosterone for long periods – after a while they grow hair on their faces, their voices deepen to that of a male, and they become less “emotional”, more logic oriented, more decisive, more assertive and aggressive. Take them off the testosterone, and they revert back to their feminine nature. Give men large doses of estrogen and their breasts will grow and develop like that of women, their voices go higher and sound like a woman, and they become more emotionally sensitive, making decisions on sentimental ‘feeling’ rather than logic. They become less assertive, less aggressive, more dependent, emotionally, on others, etc. These are REAL differences between men and women. And, what causes these differences is the body, the glands that excrete the hormones are different, and those hormones cause these very REAL and documented differences between men and women.
This is all Material, it has to do with the body only, but it is REAL. The differences exist. Since we are embodied in this material world, Vedic science teaches that we must recognize these material differences and organize society so that it can function with the least friction. To ignore this shows a total lack of understanding of what VAD is all about.
Many many times SP pointed out the material differences between men and women. Often times noting that the woman are less intelligent.
“O son of Prtha, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth-women, vaisyas [merchants] as well as sudras [workers]-can approach the supreme destination.” Women are considered on the same platform with sudras, and although a woman may be married to a brahmana, she is not given the sacred thread. It is also said that the Mahabharata was compiled by Vyasadeva because the direct Vedic knowledge could not be understood by women, sudras and dvija-bandhus, those who are born in brahmana families but are not qualified brahmanas. Stri-sudra-dvijabandhunam traye na sruti-gocara (Bhag. 1.4.25). Consequently Mahabharata is called the fifth Veda. The four preceding Vedas are the Sama, Yajur, Rg and Atharva. The essence of Vedic knowledge, Bhagavad-gita, is given within the Mahabharata. Women are inferior to men, and Vedic civilization is so perfect that men are given full charge of the women. It is therefore said: matu priya-cikirsaya. The son is always ready to see that the mother is not unhappy. Kapiladeva was anxious that His mother not feel the absence of His father, and He was ready to take the best care of her and give her knowledge.
Because women are supposed to be less intelligent, they should be given knowledge, and they should also follow this knowledge. They should follow their father’s instructions, their husband’s instructions and the instructions of their grown, scholarly sons like Kapiladeva. In this way, their lives can be perfect. In all cases, women should always remain dependent.(REF. TLK Vs 5)
When it comes to Bhakti – love of God, yes, both men and women embodied souls can take up the bhakti marg. It is not that women are not allowed to become devotees of Krsna. But, when it comes to social intercourse, to marriage and social duties, to management and leadership of society, then there is discrimination based on sex so that society can be managed smoothly.
Mrs. Wax: Could a woman be a temple president?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not?
Mrs. Wax: Glad to hear it.
Prabhupada: But because women are less intelligent, they should remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son. Then she is first-class. That is the injunction. Woman should remain dependent in childhood upon first-class father, in youthhood upon first-class husband, and in old age upon first-class son. Woman is never independent. If she becomes independent, her life is not very good. She must agree to remain dependent on first-class father, first-class husband, and first-class son-three stages. ============ REF. Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine — July 5, 1975, Chicago
The woman asking is very much feminist – into equal rights. She asks if a woman ‘can’ become a TP, and SP answers, “yes, why not?” She is glad to hear. Now that SP has got her to drop her defense and accept, SP immediately cuts to the fact that (materially speaking) “women are less intelligent” and because of this, they should remain dependent on a man. If she becomes independent that is not very good. So, how can a woman be dependent on a man and stll be a TP?
Queen Kunti was very qualified vaishnavi, but when Pandu, her husband died, she did not take over the kingdom, but placed herself under the care of the elder men of the family until her sons were old enough, then she placed herself under her sons. Always dependent on a male, never independent.
So many times SP has taught that women are, materially speaking, in general, less intelligent of the sexes. Is this a put-down on women? No. Should it be used to supress them? NO But, It MUST be used to PROTECT them. In pointing out that women are less intelligent, or the weaker of the sexes, or more easily misled, SP often stressed that this means that women must be PROTECTED. A sober man, a man of moral integrity, raises to the occasion of to take protect those who are dependent on him (I would have said, to protect those ‘under’ him, but felt you would take that as too chauvinistic).
A king’s duty is to protect those under his rule. A father’s duty is to protect his dependents, his children, and to protect his submissive wife.
When we speak of the sexes we can’t leave out marriage. Marriage in KC does not mean equal rights – I am equal spiritual soul and so are you, so lets both have equal say in all matters. NO. That is no way to manage anything. In work, companies, there must be a person who is in charge. In family there must be a designated person to take ultimate charge, ultimate responsibility. It is the only way an army can function, or a successful company, or a successful marriage. If there are no clear cut and understood, accepted and followed system of hierarchy, the marriage will end up failing.
There are SO MANY reasons why women MUST take to the submissive, even subservient, role in a marriage. For instance, raising children. Children need to see a clear leader – an distinctive authority, in their very early lives. Male voices are deep and commanding. Women’s voices are higher pitched and simply don’t carry the weight or authority. It is by Krsna’s divine arrangement. The mother tells the children do this, do that, they don’t really take mother seriously half the time. But, when father says it, they act. I saw this documented on TV some years back. Researchers found children who were raised in home where there was full effort made to not discriminate on sex, or boys raised without fathers in the home. Children, by nature, responded differently to male and female voices. (Also, at less then 1 boys and girls – on their own – develop very distinct female or male characteristics). For example, one lady’s husband left her before her son was born, he was 8 and had only been under his mother’s care. Still, when she told him to clean his room, he always ignored her, but her brother (the boy’s uncle) came over, he would ask one time, bam, the kid does it. So, on camera the boy was asked why? He said because he just doesn’t like girls, even his own mother, to tell him anything. But, when his uncle tells him, he feels he has to do it – he didn’t know why, but he knows if a man tells him, he just has to do it. But, it is proven, for children the father, the man’s voice, it commands respect.
So, if the woman takes to the submissive role in the family, and she submissively serves her husband and treats him with the greatest of respect – something magical happens. The children automatically respect “Authority” – not just their own father, but they respect authority in general. Where as if the women is belligerent and shows a lack of respect for her husband, does not see him as authority over her, but tries to share equal, the children do not have the same respect for authority.
And, even though it seems nice for some to think that women and men should treat each other equally, this is not what SP teaches in respect to husbands and wives. The wife must take to the submissive position. When women can do this, so many marriages will be saved.
Trying to make men and women equal on the material level is ARTIFICIAL, and as such it is doomed to failure. Spiritually, on the spiritual level, we are absolutely equal. But, as soon as you speak of Men and Women you are no longer talking about the spirit soul, but the material body, and the male and female are NOT equal, they are DIFFERENT. Is one greater and one lesser, yes, materially. But, it has be to balanced. Is a brahman superior to a sudra? Yes, materially speaking. But, the two can still be vaishnav and both are equal spirit souls. But, for the functioning of society, the Head is more valuable to society then the foot. One can live, not nicely, but one can live without legs, but one will die without a head. Legs are important, but the head is superior. Sudras are needed in society, but a brahman is superior. This is Material. Women have their duty, and their roles are absolutely essential to society, but men do have the duties to take the materially superior leadership roles in society.
Reporter: Are men regarded as superior to women?
Prabhupada: Yes, naturally. Naturally, woman requires protection by the man. In the childhood she is protected by the father, and youth time she is protected by the husband, and old age she is protected by elderly sons. That is natural. Female
Reporter: That goes against the thinking of a lot of people in America now. Do you know that?
Prabhupada: No… America, maybe, but this is the natural position. Women require protection.=========== REF. Interview — March 5, 1975, New York
Woman Reporter: Where do women fit into these four classes?
Prabhupada: That I already explained. Women’s position is subordinate to man. So if the man is first-class, the woman is first-class. If the man is second-class, the woman is second-class. If the man is third-class, the woman is third-class. In this… Because woman is meant for assisting man, so the woman becomes suitable according to the man, her husband.
Woman Reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Woman Reporter: Why?
Prabhupada: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man’s features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?
Woman Reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?
Prabhupada: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially… Just like your bodily feature and a man’s bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.
Woman Reporter: What does this mean as far as whether women can do the same things that men can do, or whether women can lead people?
Prabhupada: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?
Woman Reporter: No.
Prabhupada: Physically… Therefore there are so many things which is possible in man and which is not possible in woman, by nature. How you can say that they are of the same nature?
Woman Reporter: I’m not saying they’re the same. What can…
Prabhupada: Then if you not saying that, then they are different in their physiological condition. So now this physiological condition, you may calculate, “This is better, this is better.” That is your calculation. Our calculation is the man and woman are different in their physiological condition.
Woman Reporter: But you say women are subordinate to men.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is also natural. Because when the husband and wife are there or the father and daughter is there, so the daughter is subordinate to the father and the wife is subordinate to the husband.
Woman Reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.
Woman Reporter: What advice do you have to women who do not want to be subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: It is not my advice, but it is the advice of the Vedic knowledge that woman should be chaste and faithful to man.
Woman Reporter: What should we do in the United States? We’re trying to make women equal with men.
Prabhupada: I am not trying. You are already not equal with the man because in so many respects, your functions are different and man’s functions are different. Why do you say artificially they are equal? As I told you that the husband and wife-the wife has to become pregnant, not the husband. How you can change this, both the husband and wife will be pregnant? Is it possible? Is it possible?
Woman Reporter: No, it is not.
Prabhupada: Then by nature one has to function differently from the other.
Woman Reporter: But why does this mean…?
Prabhupada: So how you can change?
Woman Reporter: Why does this mean that women have to be subordinate?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Woman Reporter: Just because they bear children and men can’t?
Prabhupada: Well, by nature… No, as soon as you get children, you require support from the husband. Otherwise you are in difficulty.
Woman Reporter: Many women have children and have no support from husbands. They have no husband.
Prabhupada: Then they have to take support from others. You cannot deny that. The government is giving you support. But the government is embarrassed. If the husband supports the wife and children, the government is relieved of so much welfare contribution. So that is a problem.
Woman Reporter: What happens when women support men?
Prabhupada: First of all try to understand that you depend. The… After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.
Woman Reporter: Do you think the social unrest…
Prabhupada: I am thinking like this. You give me the answer. Simply you go on questioning. I question you, do you think this burden to the government or the public is good?
Woman Reporter: I don’t understand what you’re saying. Nitäi: Do you think that the burden caused when the husband goes away from the wife, that burden to the government is good?
Woman Reporter: No.
Prabhupada: So that has happened. Because the woman does not agree to be subordinate-she wants equal freedom-so the husband goes away and the woman is embarrassed with the children. And it becomes a burden to the government.
Woman Reporter: Is there anything wrong when the woman works?
Prabhupada: There are so many things wrong. But first thing is the wife, the woman, the wife of somebody, and the child born by somebody, they should become burden to the government or to the public. First of all answer this thing. Why she should become burden to the government? What is your answer? Do you think, from social point of view, this position of woman and the fatherless children are very nice thing? No.
Woman Reporter: What I’m trying to say is that… This may happen to some women. I’m talking about women who are not…
Prabhupada: Not… These are the general cases. You cannot say, “some.” I see in America mostly the woman…
Woman Reporter: Oh, then what you’re saying is not all women should be subordinate to all men.
Prabhupada: No, woman should be subordinate to the man, so that the man can take charge of the woman. Then that woman is not a problem to the public.
Woman Reporter: Is it true for all woman and all men?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is the nature. You take even in the dogs. The dogs they also take care of their children. The tigers, they take care of the children. So in the human society, if the woman is made pregnant and the man goes away and she is embarrassed, she has to beg from the government, that is not a very good situation.
Woman Reporter: What about women who do not have children?
Prabhupada: Well, that is also another unnatural thing. Sometimes they use contraceptives. They kill children, abortion. That is also not very good. These are all sinful activities. These are sinful activities, to kill child in the womb. And take shelter of abortion. These are all sinful activities. One has to suffer for that.
Woman Reporter: Is the social unrest in this country caused because…
Prabhupada: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman Reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate, faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man’s mentality, woman’s mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.
Woman Reporter: Thank you. It’s late. …
Woman Reporter: You have different schools for men and women, is that correct?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.
Woman Reporter: There is one more question.
Prabhupada: Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.
Woman Reporter: Everyone should marry?
Prabhupada: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.
Woman Reporter: Is allowed?
Prabhupada: Yes. Because every woman must be married. But every man may not be married. Therefore man has to accept more than one wife.
Woman Reporter: There is one question I have for you. You say that a woman’s brain is smaller than a man’s.
Prabhupada: Woman? Nitäi: Woman’s brain is smaller than a man’s brain.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact. In the history there is no woman who is a big philosopher, a big mathematician, big scientist, big educationist. We don’t find. They were all men.
Woman Reporter: What about women who are leaders of countries such as your own country?
Prabhupada: Well, according to Vedic conception woman is never offered leadership. But experience has shown that woman’s leadership has not been successful.
Woman Reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi’s leadership has not been successful?
Prabhupada: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big, big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps. So on the whole, the country is in trouble.
Woman Reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?
Prabhupada: I do not say of any particular woman, but according to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has become a leader. ============ REF. Television Interview — July 9, 1975, Chicago
SP has spoken many times about how and why women should be trained to take the submissive (subordinate) role in marriage and in society. SP said, specifically, that when women refuse to accept this what is the result:
“
Woman Reporter: What happens when women are not subordinate to men?
Prabhupada: Then there is disruption. There is disruption, social disruption. If the woman does not become subordinate to man, then there is social disruption. Therefore, in the western countries there are so many divorce cases because the woman does not agree to become subordinate to man. That is the cause.”
3-4 times SP repeated, there will be social disruption. Divorce is caused by women not taking to the submissive position. Divorce = break up of family, children suffer the most in a broken home, a broken family. Remarriage is unchaste for women. Children become unwanted and all of society degrades.
But, if women take up the submissive duty and roles in marriage and society, then what is the result:
“
Woman Reporter: Is the social unrest in this country caused because…
Prabhupada: Because of these things. They do not know that.
Woman Reporter: And if women were subordinate to men, it would solve all of our problems?
Prabhupada: Yes. Man wants that woman should be subordinate, faithful to him. Then he is ready to take charge. The man’s mentality, woman’s mentality different. So if the woman agrees to remain faithful and subordinate to man, then the family life will be peaceful.”
All social unrest is due to this one thing, women not taking to the subordinate social position.
This is all material consideration, but we are speaking of material society, how it functions. It is no more or less material then the Varnas and Ashrams. The soul is not sudra or brahman, but we discriminate by such classes for the smooth functioning of the social body, which is material.
ys Ameyatma das
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Prabhu, I think what Prabhu answers to Pramita is true. My mother is not an educated woman. She knows nothing about gender equality, or even oppose it. But my father is a bad tempered guy who beat her. My educated sister see her like a fool. But in fact, even though we consider her like a chaste women who knows nothing about gender equality, she is not really as chaste and submissive as like we consider her to be. She always criticize what dad did, she even advise and taught as if she is more superior or find his fault. It appears like she will even dominate him if he says nothing. It appears like she is submissive when my father is angry. I don’t say my dad is the kind one and all is her fault. All of us in kaliyuga is demon I know. But my point is Prabhu, they are not actually submissive wife although they know nothing well about equality. This is common experience that I think people in India will know. Wife may not try to dominate her husband but they are not submissive or chaste. My neighbour aunt always scolds her husband and kids daily but still theoretically she accept sati women or chaste women are ideal women.
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa Das Prabhu
I’m in 50% agreement with your answer. Please forgive me if I offended you or said something wrong. Here are the things with which I disagree:
1. Let me give an example:
The field marshal in one particular army would be of better experience and a better tactician than those in the lower ranks, like a lieutenant. But its highly possible for a lieutenant of another army to be more experienced and more tactical than the field marshal in question, but he’s lieutenant because there is a better person than him for the field marshal rank. So given the particular environment its necessary for the field marshal to have the leading rank, and the lieutenant no matter how good he is must accept a better person than him as his superior to maintain proper authority.
So, its possible for one woman to be more efficient than one man, but again, there will be a man who’s more efficient than her. Its not like women are completely irrational or men are completely without emotions. This cycle will be repeated but the best at logic will be a man and the best person to raise a child will be a woman. Its true even now no matter how much propaganda is made to prove female superiority in logic. Most logical people in the world are men, and not only do men have the numbers, but their logical capacity is also more. This doesn’t mean that women are completely irrational, they are just less rational in comparison. Like you said about grey matter and white matter, its possible for one woman to have more of grey matter than one man and vice versa. Just that the topmost will be men. So the education system can’t entirely be blamed.
But I do agree that the so called feminists have done many wrong things. Its also true that their very foundation is wrong, because I hear them talking gender equality or female superiority. And again, they should check the statistics to see who is truly more or less logical. I’m using the word logical because these material stuff aren’t actually intelligence. True intelligence sprouts when one understands the truth: I am not this body I’m a soul. This means that everyone should rise above feminism AND male chauvenism. Even in the interview, Srila Prabhupada never used the word intelligence to refer to who has more brain power. Its simply logical thought not intelligence. Yes, he also said that women are less intelligent in the sense that it takes more time for them to accept the supreme truth. This can very well be proved these days, since I’ve heard of many devotee women who left iskcon just because of gender roles as preached by Krsna. I’ve also heard of devotee men who’ve left bhakti, but not as much as women have. There are also other things like how a woman is so conscious about her body and hair and stuff like that. So they simply have material attachment, and this is more common among women even these days when even men are materially attached. This is what Srila Prabhupada meant by less intelligence, which has nothing to do with logical thought. It should also be noted that Krsna said that he’s intelligence among women in BG 10.34. This statement again has been used by many feminists to preach female superiorty, but they must know that Krsna was referring to the feminine opulence Goddess Saraswati, among so many other feminine opulences like Goddess Lakshmi (goddess of wealth).
2. I disagree in the aspect that all of the cases where men abuse chaste wives are mere propaganda. I’ve been to many countries and men have ill treated their wives in spite of their being chaste. So the reason why the feminist movement was formed can be justified but what they pursue today cannot be. Its true, even the decent men were ill treated by their wives because of all these no fault divorce laws amd 0 tolerance. So, actually speaking, problem lies with both men AND women, and since this is the age of Kali, most of the people in this world will be nasty, and only a handful of them will be decent, no matter what community or gender. But I do agree that feminists have created propaganda in many aspects. I’ve heard many Hindu women saying that the Vedas actually preach gender equality, and it was so in the Vedic age, but since the women started to show superior efficiency in both physical and mental labour, men felt threatened and changed the contents of the Vedas to support their selfish views and suppressed and abused women. This is propaganda, because if it had been true, women would’ve lashed out right then as they did in the 20th century. Men started to get abusive right before this movement started, and thats not propaganda.
Thank you for bearing me
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna
Yes. Your points are very good. There are bad men and bad women. But the point is men are more intelligent than women, much more intelligent. To mask this the feminists have to attack the boys by destroying their education and suppressing their development. That is what the education system is about today. Attack boys and falsely elevate the girls so it appears the girls are more intelligent than the boys.
But the reality is girls do not have the ability to think analytically. Boys have that ability. But girls can have very good memories. So they attack the boy’s memory by sexualizing them at a young age. For a boy this is very bad, it means he looses lots of semen and in the process looses his memory, his determination, his energy, etc. Celibacy is very important for boys if they are to develop their intelligence and determination and become successful members of society.
It is not really as you say, men are much more intelligent than women, it is not that some women are more intelligent than some men. Men and women have different types of brains. Women do not have the analytical abilities in any substantial quantity, but all men have substantial analytical abilities. As I have said of course women can appear analytical because they can have very good memories compared to today’s men, so women can remember lots of things and recall them and repeat them at the right times. But the real analytical ability, the ability to ‘think outside the box’, they don’t have it.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
My point is, Prabhu, in the 20th century, men were far beyond demonic and treated women with much sadism. I won’t disagree that I’m an ardent movie-watcher and have watched movies where people go through such pain…but they’re just movies. Seeing it in reality is another thing. Really crumbles one’s heart to see a human being being treated with such monstrosity. This is because good people will suffer in Kali yug. The women were good back then, and so they suffered. Sadly, they have gone down in population and so many manipulative women are taking advantage of the stories of women who are ACTUALLY suffering to accomplish their own tasks. I can very well say that the feminists are doing the same with what kind of rights they demand for. They demand for rights like extra marital affairs. This will only make men hate women even more, and would start inflicting violence against women even more, and good men will be irritated by them and would refuse to protect women. So the ultimate sufferers are women only. Because they depend on men for protection, not vice versa. Man’s body is built to endure the evils of the outside world, but its not the same with women. What’s even more overwhelming is that everytime I read about a rape, they’d say “a sacrifice for the women of India”. How many more millions of women do they plan to sacrifice, pray tell? Its no exaggeration to say that they’ve only traded one demon for another. What I think is, its high time we stop arguing, in this senseless war, innocent people get hurt, especially women. We must start reading the Bhagavd gita and follow its teachings and finally, there will come the ideal world that feminism promises but never fulfills. Men must realise that they must be more caring towards women and once again start working with complete efficiency and take care of them like children, keep them comfortable and happy. They must be more patient and loving, tolerate small mistakes ’cause they’re humans too and start embracing their daughters too. This is because of kanya dhana, which means the offering of one’s daughter in marriage to a brahmin, which is very fruitful for one’s good karma. They must always keep them happy and teach them how to live as home makers and mothers, two very very important roles, mothers illuminate the house ye know, and ultimately their child’s character. And Women must realise that potraying “strong character” in entertainment and media is utter nonsense and must stop craving for it. They must rediscover their traditional roles and keep chanting the Lord’s name with their families. They’re beautiful when they’re in their true realm, because a woman is more prone to degradation in the outside world. They’ve shook their heads for this, saying men are only more prone ro degradation. Well, it took 5000 years for men to fall down to what they are today. They’ve been in the outside world longer, and have had their own share of troubles too. But it took them several millenium to become the monsters and perverts that they are today, whereas women have been around outside for like a 100 years, and already they’ve fallen down. The media and entertainment are already flawed, but still women are seamlessly adding fuel to fire by wearing minimal clothing in movies and they have these useless playboy magazines or something, where women pose without clothes. Isn’t that degrading? Many women have started to use sex as a gold mine, and its a fact that the government are investing millions in the production of abortion pills. Isn’t that degrading? Killing a baby, a life completely innocent to all the evils of the outside world and the biggest devotees…isn’t that degrading? They’ve found so many school girls pregnant…its said in the vedas that puberty is the stage where boys and girls get the urge and so, to keep the girl’s chastity she should be married before that. Now it doesn’t matter, when they get pregnant its out of sheer legitimacy and not by unscrupulous men. And a boy must be celibate and so he’s kept away from girls. But the fact that women are more prone to degradation must NEVER be used to exploit them or mock them, but as a reason to protect them. Sadly, the stupid men don’t see it these days, taking advantage of them for their own pleasure. They must suffer for that. Male chauvinists believe that women only exist to satisfy men’s lust. They’re far more than mere creatures to be objectified. They’re the mothers, a very stressful but a very important role, one that illuminates the attitude of the future generation. In their absence, the society will be what it is today, a post apocalyptic minefield. These things the stupid male chauvinists should stop and rediscover their traditional roles and give up on chauvinism. Women in turn must give up on feminism and become mothers once again and teach their children the appropriate things, and not male chauvinism and feminism. Both are useless, unnecessary setbacks for humanity. They must stop saying, “when you educate a man you educate an individual but when you educate a women you educate a society”. This is only said to make women keep fighting for a boundless cause. When women are given material education, they’ll wish to work alongside men, and it will influence other women, and again…post apocalyptic minefield. The only goal is to serve the Supreme, and be truly happy…
Interesting,
Few questions
1. Do you support and recognize all the studies conducted by these universities or just the ones that you like and seem to support your theory?
2. You seem to draw a comparison between women and men in a certain field for example medical or quantum physics etc. How about comparing a woman who is one of the best in the medical field vs a man who is hardly able to keep up with basic education.
Do any of you intelligent men in ISCKON have the intelligence and ability to govern an entire country like the US?
Hare Krishna RD.
It is a fact that women are materially less intelligent than men. That is established and accepted by any thoughtful person. Scientists explain that woman’s brains are considerably smaller than men’s brains. But more important than the size the composition of a woman’s brain is very different from the composition of a man’s brain. A man has a lot of ‘grey matter’ in his brain and this gives him his ability of analytical thought. A woman, on the other hand, has very little grey matter in her brain, instead she has a lot of white matter. The scientists tell us that this white matter can be used for memory. So a woman may have very good memory but she does not have the abilities for analytical thought that a man has.
Currently the modern education system is geared towards women, not men. It is all based on memory. They give lectures and request the students to read and then at the exams if one can remember and repeat what he has heard then they give good marks. There is virtually no need for analytical thinking at all to excel in today’s schools and colleges. So because women, by dint of the white matter in their brains, have good memories, they can do very well in modern education. Men, on the other hand, may not have as good memory, but they have the ability of analytical thinking. The problem for men is modern education does not require or test analytical thinking…
Intelligence is not memory, the ability to recall what one has heard in the past and repeat it. Intelligence is analytical thinking, the ability to assess a situation and solve problems that one has not encountered before. That is where men excel.
So you can not use modern education to compare men and women. Modern education is designed for women, it is only testing memory. Which is not at all intelligence. Men with intelligence but less memory will not do well in modern education, women with memory but without intelligence will do better than them, because modern education tests memory, not intelligence.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Rise above the dualities of grey matter or white matter , who is intelligent and who is not . Love God with all your heart and soul ..this is the only easiest path of liberation and nothing else . Shree Krishna is masculinity of man and feminity of women . Radhe Krishna , Radhe Krishna , Radhe Krishna
Yes. You are correct of course. Krishna consciousness has nothing to do with the material body and there is no disadvantage for anyone, man, woman, etc. The point is to surrender to Krishna and chant Hare Krishna. Anyone can do it. And Krishna consciousness is completely transcendental to the bodily conception of life.
Hare krishna prabhu,
I am not able to find any good devotee husband for myself in ISKCON. What should i do in this case? Currently my father is looking after me.
ISKCON is useless. These days they do not attract real devotees generally. Of course some nice devotees are there. But you have to realize everyone is a devotee, they have just forgotten. So just ask your father to arrange for some husband for you. That is the way. Let your father organize it. Not that you will select your husband. Let your father select someone. And just become a pure devotee yourself. Cook nice offerings for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and feed your husband and your family and by your sincere devotional service your husband and your family will become nice devotees of Krishna.
I remember reading somewhere that SP had given sanction to a woman brahmacari ashram. If this is not false, then it is true that a devotee woman can remain as bramhacari throughout her life?
Hare Krishna Ann
No. Brahmacary is for men, not for women. Women have to get married. A woman needs to be protected by a man. So it is not possible to have a woman’s brahmacari ashram.
As far as Srila Prabhupada is of course very merciful and really was only concerned that his disciples were strictly chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly following the four regulative principles and rising early every morning before 4:00 AM and attending Mangal-Aroti and having the daily Bhagavatam class and going out daily on Sankirtana [distributing his books and publicly chanting the Hare Krishna maha mantra]. He was very concerned that the temples be kept very clean and that the regular work go on nicely.
But as far as the various things the devotees wanted to do as long as the did not conflict with these basic main points he was very flexible. So Yamuna and maybe some other ladies wanted to start this female ashram but Srila Prabhupada was not very hopeful about this. He said the ladies will fight with each other. They can not manage actually without men. It is unnatural. Impossible actually.
So the whole idea is crazy. Of course ISKCON did invent the term ‘brahmacarini…’ but Srila Prabhupada did not approve of this idea.
There is no such thing as a woman brahmacari, it is not possible for a woman. It is for men.
A woman needs to be protected by a man. In her childhood she is protected by her father, when she gets married she is protected by her husband, and when she is old she is protected by her grown up sons. So a woman is always protected. Without protection she will be exploited and that is what we see happening in today’s society.
These days women are getting exploited even after having brothers , husband and father . Even draupadi who was very chaste got exploited by other men in front of her husbands . Only lord shrew Krishna is the true protector
>These days women are getting exploited even after having brothers , husband and father.
That goes to show how fallen men have become these days; lower than shudras and a slave to their senses.
>Even draupadi who was very chaste got exploited by other men in front of her husbands . Only lord shrew Krishna is the true protector
Yes lord Krishna is the true protector and by the original instructions given by him husband has to protect and look after their female relatives in the given order.
Another attempt by religion, to downgrade women to a lesser place in society. Religion is expert at keeping social order, this is a fact.
This is simple brainwashing, discouragement. If a religion, says it’s so, the people lose their ability to think rationally and objectively. T hey follow dogma instead of being leaders to debunk such faultiness.
It’s hilarious really, how so many Westerns , have taken to these Eastern Religions, thinking they are about equality and fairness. Not, they are more sexist or as sexist as fundamentalist Christianity.
BTW I have a degree in Math and Comp Sci BS and MS. People are individuals, the genders do not think differently, that is a social construct.
Hare Krishna Kayla
You are greatly mistaken. Men and women think in a completely different way. This is even accepted by modern science. Men have a large amount of what science calls ‘grey matter’ in their brains. So this is the ‘brain substance’ they think with. Women on the other hand have very little grey matter in their brains. Instead they have more of what science calls ‘white matter’. Which is good for memory. So women can be very good at memory. They can remember a lot of facts and figures and regurgitate them, giving the illusion of intelligence. But they have very little grey matter so they can not really process the information very well. They don’t have the intelligence of a man but they may have better memory than a man.
So now the modern so-called education system is simply based on remembering and regurgitating the subject matter. So it is skewed towards the abilities of a female brain. Therefore women can do very well in this modern so-called education system. But it is not actually an education system. It does to teach people to think and does not test or measure intelligence. It is only testing and measuring the ability to remember and regurgitate information. So success in modern education is not a measure of intelligence. It is the sign of a good memory, which has nothing to do with intelligence.
The idea that men and women are the same is insane. Men and women are very different from the material point of view. If the society is to be in any way functional this difference between men and women has to be acknowledged and respected. The confusion of gender since the 60’s in Western society has been the primary cause of the downfall of the Western society. This gender confusion has to be rectified if there is going to be any progress at all.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
How many women have you seen excel in mathematics and sciences without frustration and brain freeze? Not many to none.
I’ve known all my teaching years that females emotions tend more toward studying language rather than math and science because our brains are different, we are not same.
Girls and women have been given all the opportunity in the world but still can’t master the higher math, are more likely to fail under pressure, cry when they can’t figure out logic games. Chess is dominated by men for a reason. Women simply can’t excel men, it’s a fact, so please accept your place as WOMAN.
I teach English in high school for a reason. I don’t have a male brain!
Hare Krishna Tami,
I can understand that you are a teacher and have far more knowledge and understanding of students’ mentality than I can ever hope to possess. But I respectfully disagree. It is common knowledge that not any brain can master higher math. There are some gifted individuals who can solve these math within moments. Women are also among them. I agree that girls show more interest in language and humanities because its very similar to their psychology. It is a proven fact that girls and women generally have far more EQ(Emotional Quotient) than boys and men. Their brains are also built to handle the stress of handling children, most difficult task in the world according to me. A proper and simple observation can help them understand their own psychology and relate to the next person. They are also more understanding than men, so this gives them a dead obvious advantage. They can also be great sociologists since they’re victims to sexual abuse. I can’t vouch for any perfection in judging murders in general(i.e., murders the victims of which are both men and women). But a proper and genuine female sociologist can point out the reasons behind the danger that lurks around women.
This is where I disagree. There have been many female scientists and mathematicians who have gone a long way. They haven’t achieved any less than males have. For sure, these men and women are gifted, and so, they can handle math and science with ease. In general, men and women do go through a lot of stress handling these subjects. While I won’t say that all or many women have excelled in these fields, they surely have fared better than men. Whether its because the female mind is more, less or equally analytical is quite controversial. Though, it is obvious that women work harder than men. This may not necessarily because they show more interest, but their career opportunities are quite narrow compared to that of men. This is because, man’s physical advantage renders him more capable of physical labour, especially in the army. While women are given equal opportunities to join the army, the first preference is given to men. But this is not because of gender bias, its because the country’s defense mustn’t be hindered just for gender equality. Many boys my age had little stress in studies because they were confident that they could always join the army. Whereas women must work with their brains. But the problem with many women isn’t because they want equal rights, but because they refuse to take responsibility for their children. While each individual has different definitions of “real women”, according to me, a real woman is one who takes responsibility for her children properly and abstains from sinful activities. This is also applicable to men, but even more so on women because every child’s first teacher is their mother, and so, they must possess many good qualities. But these arguments don’t mean anything. We try to be faithful devotees to Lord Krishna, and He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent and the most intelligent of all, and He is the ultimate goal. So let us all just set aside these differences and worship the Lord.
Sorry for my bad english.
Hare Krishna
All religion is clearly mislead. Christianity has this stance on women as well. I once attended a Baptist church where the men had a clear superiority complex. To no avail could I help them. they simply thought of me as a man , not able to be a “man”.
My wife is a mathematician and computer scientist, I’m a financial advisor, so we are clearly an equal couple on all levels. A happy atheist and male feminist.
In this age many man have become less intelligent like women so sometimes today it becomes equal…
Women are without doubt less intelligent then men. By this I don’t mean that they have less calculative abilities than a man. I mean that there natural inclination is towards materialism. By intelligence I mean the ability to understand things as they actually are, the ability to perceive all living entities as factually equal on the spiritual platform.
Even a calculator is “intelligent” for the unintelligent. It can perform calculations faster than any man with much accuracy.
But a calculator isn’t wise. It knows no purpose, mere processing and accumulation of data isn’t intelligence.
Hare Krishna Jack
Being in a woman’s body in no way disqualifies a person from making advancement in Krishna consciousness. In fact the woman’s lower intelligence can often be an advantage. They do not have the analytical mind of a man who wants always to philosophically and logically understand things, they have a natural faith in God, Krishna, and can very easily surrender to and serve Krishna. So in this sense, in coming to Krishna consciousness and surrendering to Krishna, sometimes women have an advantage.
A man’s over-intelligent philosophical and logical approach may divert him from the simple thing of surrendering to and serving Krishna.
As far as the woman’s brain even according to modern science it is smaller than an man’s brain. But there is another, more important factor, to consider. According to the Western scientists a man thinks with ‘grey matter’. A man’s brain has a lot of ‘grey matter’ but a woman’s brain has hardly any ‘grey matter’ or brain substance. Instead a woman has ‘white matter’ in her brain. And apparently, again according to the Western scientists, this ‘white matter’ can give the woman very good abilities to remember and recall things. So woman can have much better memories than men but they do not have the ‘grey matter’ for the analytical thought process.
Nowadays the modern education system has been reduced to hearing information and repeating it. There is very little logic or thought required in modern eduction. If one can remember and repeat he can get good marks. No need for thinking. So this style of education is very much biased towards women. They can do very well in this memory-based education system. But they can not come close to matching the logical and philosophical abilities of a man’s brain.
But as I said this is no disadvantage to taking to Krishna consciousness. Krishna consciousness does not depend on logic and philosophy. It depends on surrender and service.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I am glad I found this site. With an opening line like \’women are not as intelligent as men”, I need look no further to make my decision that hindu thought, like standard christian and jewish thought, is run by men, for men and ALWAYS, even when appearances blind us to the truth, will include elements so that \’men\’ can say to women; “yes we are equal, just that men are more equal than women.” When including the cast system to keep the rich rich without a bad consciousness about the starving and the dying, it sounds like another massively flawed doctrine.
Hare Krishna Elizabeth
The thing we have to understand is that we are not these material bodies. You are not a woman and I am not a man. We are eternal spirit souls trapped in material bodies. So on the spiritual platform there is no difference. So when one is acting on the spiritual platform in a man’s or a woman’s body, it makes no difference. On the spiritual platform there is no difference.
But you have to admit that a man’s body and a woman’s body is different. And a woman’s body is naturally suited to different things than a man’s body is. This feminist idea that there is no difference between men and woman, on the material platform, is crazy. The natural thing is a man is strong and should protect and support his wife and family and the woman naturally has children and has the ability to care for the children and serve the husband.
It is also true of course that woman and men think differently. Practically society can only function properly if the woman act as woman and the men act as men. Nowadays the women are trying to act like men and the men a confused and not interested in these woman trying to act like men and the whole social structure of the world has been destroyed by this crazy feminism.
If woman would go back to acting as woman then 90% of the problems of the world would be immediately solved.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Even these days there are many men who doesn’t want housewives and it is not possible for woman to earn money and also take charge of all household chores …yet I have seen many women who are earning as well as taking charge of all household chores and their male counterpart only earning thinking they are superior . 90% of problem can be solved if illusion which occurs in the mind of beings dispels
Yes. Everything is mixed up.
It is possible for main to remain single but woman requires a husband for protection and support so she can raise the children.
It’s a fact, females are more likely to get brain freeze in science and math class.
Yes. Women are not as adapt at things that require analytical thought as men, they depend on memory, so if they can remember the formulas and remember how to plug the numbers into the formulas and solve them, then they can excel at this sort of maths and science. But analytical tasks, generally they will be lost.
Why don’t you worry about your own situation Prabhu. It is not so good to have the mind wandering around on all these theoretical things. Just concentrate on chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day, strictly following the four regulative principles and reading Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day. Never miss doing all these things every day and you will be making solid advancement in Krishna consciousness. As far as the woman they need a bona fide spiritual master to let them know what to do in their particular situation. It is not for you to worry about. The situation has to be considered according to so many things in each individual case so why you are bothering your mind about it?
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna
Thanks for the reply.
If the man(father/husband/son) under whom the women is a non-devotee what the women is supposed to do, specifically when the women is intrested in krsna consiousness and the husband/father is not.
Hare Krishna Nithya
There are two things, the material side and the spiritual side. So a woman needs to be under the protection of a man. In her youth that is her father, when she is married that is her husband and when she is older it is her grown sons. And on the spiritual side she has to be a pure devotee of Krishna.
Now, in an ideal world, the husband or father, etc, will be a nice devotee of Krishna and will act as the natural guru for his wife or daughter and help her advance in Krishna consciousness.
But in Kali-yuga we live in a world that is far from ideal. In Kali-yuga even if you are married to a supposed devotee husband you may well find he is actually not a devotee at all. This Kali-yuga is the age of quarrel and the age of hypocrisy. So the tendency is someone claims to be a devotee but is not a devotee actually at all. That is hypocrisy.
So fortunately one can become Krishna conscious in any situation of life and Lord Caitanya does not recommend that we change our status of life, rather that wherever we are we should become Krishna conscious there.
So my suggestion would be that you just practice Krishna consciousness in your current situation and become a pure devotee of Krishna and the association of a devotee is a very powerful thing. So if you become a nice devotee and if you cook nice offerings for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna then you can distribute the Krishna-prasadam to your husband or father and by taking Krishna prasadam and by hearing your chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra and by associating with you naturally your father or husband will gradually become more and more favorable towards Krishna consciousness and will ultimately become a devotee also.
So this is the way. Just become Krishna conscious in whatever situation you find yourself in. Do not be very anxious to change your situation but understand that as you make advancement in Krishna consciousness Krishna will make many arrangements in your situation so that it becomes more favorable for your advancement in Krishna consciousness.
We have to be very tolerant of others and very patient and determined in our execution of Krishna consciousness. And we have to expect that in the material world in Kali-yuga our path to spritual advancement will not always be a very smooth one.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna
Thanks for the reply.
What if the non devotee husband causes the woman to not be Krishna Conscious? If he forbids her to practice? Does she behave in a subordinate manner and agree to his wishes and abandon her Krishna Consciousness , or does she disobey him – which is against SPs teachings?
Hare Krishna Slobhan
Krishna consciousness can not be checked by any material impediments. If one wants to be Krishna conscious then no one can stop them from becoming Krishna conscious.
The devotees’ service to Krishna is more important than her service to her husband so we can see from the examples of the gopis in Vrindavan that when Krishna was playing on His flute the gopis, some who had their husbands and families at home, went out to dance with Krishna.
So every situation is unique. In reality I do not think there are many husbands who would actually forbid their wives from practicing Krishna consciousness particularly if they saw the wives were at the same time serving them nicely and cooking very nice bhoga and offering it to Krishna and feeding them the Krishna prasadam very respectfully.
So a woman has to respect and serve her husband but her prime duty is to serve Krishna. In an ideal world there will be no conflict but this is not an ideal world and there will be so many problems.
There is no point in theorizing on these things. If one is actually a devotee and actually surrendered to Krishna even though the husband may initially be not very favorable by Krishna’s mercy and by the power of associating with his devotee wife he will get purified and become more favorable as time goes on. So these things will be automatically adjusted if the wife is just patient and continues her service to both Krishna and her husband.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I know SO MANY devotee women who had horrible husbands who tried to prevent them from KC. LOL!
There are also many horrible women who have diverted their husbands from Krishna consciousness.
So this is the material world and nothing is working very perfectly here. We can not expect everything to be perfect. We come to the material world because we are rebels. We are all here, trying to forget Krishna, trying to enjoy separately from Krishna. So it is not surprising to find someone in the material world who is in maya, rather it is surprising to find someone who is Krishna conscious in the material world.
But the responsibility of a woman is to serve her husband. And if she serves her husband nicely the husband will become very attached to his chaste and dedicated wife and will do anything at all for her. This is the center of material attachment. It is actually a disadvantage to advancement in Krishna consciousness, married life.
But for proper function of the society this is required, women have to serve their husbands nicely.
But the dysfunction caused by today’s liberated women has created hell for everyone… But that is not actually a disadvantage for preaching Krishna consciousness. Rather it is good that no man is attached to his wife because she refuses to obey and serve him. For preaching it is good, because no one has any material attachment… But for society it is a disaster…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
There is well defined system of Brahmacharya, Grihastha, Vanprastha and Sanyasa. Do this also applies for women too.
If women are to be dependent on grown sons when the husband takes sanyasa, what is their path for self realization, as their aim should also be moksha.
Please also let me know, if there are some books which elaborate the process which women should follow.
I have another question on my mind that, what a woman should do if man is not following the right path, not doing right things, should she still remain dependent on that man? Because there are always people who are not following right path.
Hare Krishna
Women should follow their husband.
There is only life at home then grhastha life for women, there is no brahmacary or vanaprastha or sannyasa for women. If she agrees to renounce the worldly affairs and serve her husband as his assistant she can accompany her husband in the Vanaprastha ashram. But if the husband takes sannyasa then he has to go along and the women will take shelter of her grown sons.
The position of a women is always to be protected by a man. In the beginning she is protected by her father, then he hands her over to suitable husband who protects her and if he takes sannyasa then her grown sons will protect her. So a women is never independent.
A women is a servant of her husband and she assists him in his spiritual advancement and she also shares the results of that spiritual advancement. So a women advances in spiritual life by nicely serving her husband who is a nice devotee of Krishna.
Of course that is a rather utopian system these days and for one reason or another many women find themselves unprotected or find the man they are with unable to protect them. So we are in rather difficult times. Therefore ultimately we are not the material body, we are not male and not female, we are all spirit souls, eternal servants of Krishna. So we can take a man’s body in one life and a women’s in the next. So spiritually the process is the same for everyone and Krishna consciousness is equally open to women as it is to men. So everything Srila Prabhupada teaches in his books is applicable to women as well as men. So in a women’s body you can chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra daily, you can follow the four regulative principles, you can rise early in the morning and offer Mangal Arati to Krishna and you can distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books to the fallen conditioned souls.
So ultimately it does not matter what sort of body you are in, you can become Krishna conscious by following the instructions you find while reading Srila Prabhupada’s books.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna
Thank you for the explanation.
I’m not inferior to men. My brain is just as good as a man’s. When I get married, my husband and I will work equally to raise our kids and support the family.
I like this idea, Caroline. Well done.
Women are not inferior to men. Men and women are different by physiological and psychological standards. In this age of Kali Yuga, one must work to occupy his / her minds at all times. The empty mind is the mind for the devil.
But, in terms of a spiritual perspective, I agree with SP that women need to be mutually agreeing, supportive and caring and lead a happy married life with her husband as opposed to the ‘western’ norm out there today.
But what is most important is that if a woman is to be married, she must find a most ‘appropriate’ spiritual (god-loving) husband (i.e. First-class husband). In doing so, she gains good support and knowledge from him.
No – times are different so women might not be able to devote all the time for raising child however, due diligence should be applied. Women has primary role in the child’s growth and should be supportive in that aspect. She can’t do more work than the husband and leave the child up to the husband to growing – This I think is what SP is trying to drive in the subject above but the choice of words seem to be inappropriate (i.e. superior / inferior NO but the word is different)
Thank you for writing this,
Hare Krsna
Cheers
Rahul
Some men are less intelligent than some women. All men are not more intelligent than all women. In fact if you read some of the science on the subject, of the 10% most intelligent, and 10% least intelligent people on the planet are more men than women. So are the least intelligent men not really men, because ‘men are more intelligent than women?’. I got the same university qualification and grades as my husband, how am I ‘less intelligent’?
Hare Krishna Sarah
The thing is men and women are different. You can see that men and women are different in the sense they have different bodily parts. And they are obviously intended by nature for different purposes. A man and a woman are supposed to combine as a unit and work cooperatively together. There are many things that a woman can do better than a man and there are many things a man can do better than a woman. Of course the material body is not really us, we are not the material body, we are the spirit soul within the body, so there is no difference in the spirit soul in a woman’s body and the spirit soul in a man’s body. But materially there is a difference and for the proper function of the society we have to recognize that difference.
As far as the brain of a man and the brain of a woman they are greatly different. Firstly a man’s brain is considerably larger than a woman’s brain. But the composition of a man’s brain and woman’s brain is very significantly different. From the scientists we understand that men’s brains are predominately ‘grey matter’ which enables the actual thinking, the analytical thought. Woman’s brains are predominately ‘white matter’ which is basically memory. So generally women can have very good memory but they have very little ability for analytical thought.
University grades are not a measure of intelligence. These days the education system is almost 100% based on memory abilities. The lecturers give their classes and if the students can repeat the relevant sections in the exams they get high marks. And practically all the so-called intelligence measures are also based on memory. So in this system woman have an advantage because of their good memories and men are disadvantaged because their brains are more powerful in analytical thought and, particularly these days, less powerful in memory. The problem for men is when they loose semen that depletes their brains also of important substances that are necessary for maintaining and improving the memory. So these days particularly men are having problems with memory. That gives women an advantage in the modern memory-based education system.
But memory is not intelligence. Actually intelligence is analytical thought. And women have very little ability for analytical thought. They can simulate or give the appearance of analytical thought by memorizing a lot of things and recalling them and repeating them at the right moments. But this is not really intelligence. If a woman is faced with a problem that she does not have the solution for stored up in her good memory it will be very difficult for her to solve that problem. But a man, even though he may not have such a good memory, because he has the ability for analytical thought, can solve the problem using intelligence.
So the difference between your intelligence and your husbands intelligence is that he has the ability for analytical thought, he has the ability to solve new problems that he has never experienced before, whereas your woman’s brain is memory based, so you can recall the solution to the problem if you have come across it before and have it stored in your memory, but you will find it very difficult to ‘think outside the box’.
These days, thanks to the feminists, the whole education system is biased towards the good memory abilities of the women and does not put any stress or importance on analytical thought. So this has created a world where there is no longer any innovation. You may have noticed that we are now getting close to a quarter of the way through this century and so far nothing has been discovered, no new science or technology or anything at all. Compared to the first 25 years of the 20’th century when there was so much innovation. But innovation requires analytical thought. And because of the women, because they can not think analytically, this analytical thought is discouraged in the education system.
So the measures of intelligence you are using are not valid, they are measures of memory, not measures of intelligence. And these days women do tend to have considerably better memories than most men. That is because women don’t have the problem of loosing their memory when they loose semen… But if you were to measure actual intelligence, the ability for analytical thought, then you will find men are far more intelligent than women.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Actual intelligence is only to know what is the purpose of life . I am talking about fact here . This is not on transcendental platform but its a reality that actual intelligence is all about knowing the real purpose of life . What is the use of being analytical intelligent if you don’t even know what you exist .
Radhe Krishna !!!!
Hare Krishna Binni
Yes. Analytical intelligence is not necessary an advantage in becoming Krishna conscious. A simple woman who natrally has faith in Krishna and surrenders to and serves Krishna is much better than a puffed up man proud of his book knowledge and great studies of the Vedas.
But the point is more in regard to living in the material world. For the proper functioning of society we need to understand that from the material point of view a woman’s body is different from a man’s body, and because of these differences of the material body the work of a man and the work of a woman is different.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krsna Prabhuji,
I have a question to you. We are being preached that women should be serving their husbands and that is their only duty. I agree. But what if in the case of hundreds of women in India specially in rural areas who serve their husbands selflessly, but subjected to domestic violence and exploitation by their husbands?
How can one lady selflessly serve a husband who tortures her everyday?
Hare Krishna Pramita
This is propaganda by the feminists and womans liberation people.
Actually husband and wife are very happy if the wife is surrendered to the husband and serving him very nicely. Husband will be very attached and very much love such a chaste and submissive surrendered wife.
If the wife is chaste, surrendered and submissive to the husband and serves her husband very nicely then the husband will not be unkind to her. No matter how demonic husband he will be very dedicated and will love his dedicated and devoted wife.
So it is not at all true that husband will torture a dedicated and submissive wife who is serving him very nicely.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa