Hansadutta: “Prabhupada told me he has full faith in Hayagriva”
Even in the material world, if you tamper with the works of an author, musician, artist or kitchen chef you will find yourself the target of intense verbal, physical or legal reaction.
How anyone could think himself qualified, or entitiled to tamper with the works of Srila Prabhupada is incomprehensible to me.
Dear Prabhus
Obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Even in the material world, if you tamper with the works of an author, musician, artist or kitchen chef you will find yourself the target of intense verbal, physical or legal reaction. How anyone could think himself qualified, or entitled to tamper with the works of Srila Prabhupada is incomprehensible to me. Therefore let the world wide Vaishnava community give their opinion, and supporting Vedic evidences in this highly controversial issue.
Simply respond with a yes in favor of editing Srila Prabhupada’s books, or a No , opposed to editing Srila Prabhupada’s books, PREFERABLY backed with reference to Vedic authority.
No opinions, or speculations, everything based on quotations from shastras.
From my side I have already referred to what Srila Prabhupada said to me when I , As a BBT trustee, suggested that we revert back to his original Indian publication of Srimad Bhagavatam ” No, whatever Hayagriva has done is perfect, I have full faith in him as the editor of my books ” This is all I need to Know, who is a greater authority than Srila Prabhupada, about the books of Srila Prabhupada ? Jayadvaita?, Akruranath?, or anyone else?
Instead of an insignificant like myself taking up the challenge of Akruranath, I will defer to the Vaishnava community for a interactive world wide decision.
Your Humble servant,
Hansadutta das
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Dear prabhujis, dandavats.
This matter of editing Srila Prabhupadji’s books is a most flagrant deviation from His order not to change anything. He personally has said several times that even something ” imperfectly” composed should be glorified and welcomed having emanated from the lips or pen of a pure Vaisnava!
I was reading Srimad Bhagavad-gita with some students last year. I had the 1972 edition, greatfully reprinted by Sripad Hansadutta & co, and the students the revised edition, being presented “As It Is”! Now during the readings I was shocked at the changes and created a nonsensical atmosphere. So I told them better get the original authorised 1972 edition. To which they naturally agreed. It is spiritual ” common sense”.
The revisionists, nay, the deviationists, have a lot to answer to Srila Prabhupadji and His faithful followers!
My humble pranams to all of you.
S.A.dasa
University and experts feedback… “in the interest of full disclosure, it would be important to place the editor’s name on the Revised book’s cover as well.”
Researcher: Keli Lalita Dasi (Carol Conroy), ACBSP.
“I have contacted many prestigious universities and they have all replied that this type of editing —posthumous— must have the names of the editors on the cover and /or title page, as well as the number of edition, and date of edit.
Otherwise, these books are not authentic, and not respected by scholars.
I also sent the same inquires to two well know academics who have written in academia, written books about scholarly publishing for authors wanting to publish, as well as working as managing editors in publishing houses.”
APA Reference Style
Editor(s) of a book can generally be found on both the cover (or dust jacket) and title page. Title of Edited book can also be found on both the cover and title page. Edition/Revision number (if any) is usually indicated on the cover (or dust jacket) or title page.
NB: If no edition number or revision information is present on either of these places, assume that the book is an original edition.
From Georgetown University Press
Based on the information you provide in the email, my colleagues and I make the following suggestion:
ORIGINAL AUTHOR NAME Revised edition edited by ______.
Thanks for thinking of us to help you, and if we can provide any further assistance, please let me know.
Sincerely, Deb Weiner Editorial and Production Manager Georgetown University Press
Saint Joseph’s University Press
Thanks for your e-mail and inquiry. I’d say that in the interest of full disclosure, it would be important to place the editor’s name on the book’s cover as well. It also tells the prospective reader/buyer that this is not simply a reprint. Hope this is helpful, and all best wishes,
Joseph F. Chorpenning, O.S.F.S., S.T.L., Ph.D Editorial Director Saint Joseph’s University Press.
Notre Dame
From University of Notre Dame Press
Dear Keli Conroy, Please excuse this late reply. We would also expect something like what you describe:
TITLE Original author’s name SECOND EDITION (or revised edition or new edition) Edited by NEW NAME
It might be appropriate to expand the last line, such as “Edited and revised by” or “Edited with a new Introduction by …” (what is being changed?)
The situation can’t help but raise questions in my mind, among them, is the book still the original author’s? What is the reviser going to do or not do to an original text by a posthumous author who can’t take responsibility for the changes? To be acceptable in scholarly circles, I would also normally expect scholars in the field and a scholarly publisher to be responsible for the publication.
All the best, Rebecca R. DeBoer – Managing Editor University of Notre Dame Press
Placing a byline on the Revised Edition of Bhagavad Gita As It Is.
August 1, 2017
This is not a question of them or us…Original or Revised…it’s a question of following the correct standards for the posthumous revision of a work.
It’s a question of letting the reader know what he or she is reading and the first thing the reader sees is the cover of the book.
The next thing the reader sees is the inside facing page.
When a work is revised 100 per cent it doesn’t become a Second Edition…it is a Revised Edition and an editor byline should be on either the cover or inside facing page.
I have provided clear and irrefutable evidence from Chicago Manual of Style, APA as well as research done over the past four years by various devotees.
We have contacted Universities, Publishing houses and experts and all agree that a byline must appear on a posthumously revised/edited work.
Dr Schweig will confirm this since he placed his byline on the cover of Tamal Krsna’s book, which he revised and edited.
So this is the main thing which needs to be resolved.
Along with this is the question of Reviews written for the Original BG. There are legal precedents regarding this which I won’t go into, but they are there. It’s obvious that reviews written for the 1972 Original may not be used for a book with 4984 changes made in a complete revision and published 11 years later. One of the reviews used in the 1983 Revised edition was written by a Professor who died before 1983 and the use of his review may lead to legal action against BBTi.
The choice of books, Original or Revised is a personal one. But the reader needs to know what he or she is reading.
In the past few months I have spoken to many devotees who had no idea that the BG had been completely revised.
Most would agree with the review written by Dr Samuel D.Atkins. I’m one of those people. I don’t have any criticism of Srila Prabhupada’s Original BG. I find it the writing style very much the same as the writing he did before he arrived in the US and I believe that Prof Wheeler had a very light touch in his editing.
To me this book is perfect for the layman, the average man in the street and also for scholars.
This what Dr Atkins wrote:
“I am most impressed with A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada’s scholarly and authoritative edition of Bhagavad-gita. It is a most valuable work for the scholar as well as the layman and is of great utility as a reference book as well as a textbook. I promptly recommend this edition to my students. It is a beautifully done book.”
So why would a professor (Sanskrit ) write such a positive review if 4984 corrections were needed?
Substance ahead of language worked in the 1968 abridged edition. Thousands of copies were distributed. Editor byline( Raymond Marais) set the precedent for manuscript that Srila Prabhupada had little time to check.
So why not a Jayadvaita Swami/Dravida byline for a book that Srila Prabhupada never checked at all?
Some notes:
Posthumously edited books that do not have an editor byline on the cover, or inside facing page.
I looked at works by writers including Tolkien, Hemingway, Foster-Wallace, Freud and Emily Dickinson.
In each case I found that the editor’s byline appeared. I checked on style manuals and found that a byline on the cover, or inside facing page is standard practice.
Did Srila Prabhupada ask for the work to be revised? That was my next question and here I found a mountain of evidence which suggested excatly the opposite. I also found many letters from Srila Prabhupada in which he showed great appreciation for the work done by Chief Editor Prof Howard Wheeler.
I went through all the BBTi edit site reasons for the changes…I found that the work had been completely revised, 100 per cent and that this revision was based on two extremely flimsy arguments claiming that Srila Prabhupada said whatever Jayadvaita Swami did was approved.
I also found that BBTi editorial staff had returned to a draft manuscript and undone all editorial work completed and authorised by Srila Prabhupada. I noted that Srila Prabhupada also read from the Complete edition for five years and never asked for the work to be revised.
I noted that reviews for the 1972 Original, written by scholars in 1972, were used in the 1983 Revised Edition, which is a completely different book.
And as the evidence mounts up, the demand for the Original continues to increase.
The Review…
Atkins was an expert in Vedic philology and Indo-European linguistics. He served as chair of the classics department from 1961 to 1978. His areas of interest included Hellenistic literature, Greek and literary criticism of Greek and Latin texts, and he also taught Sanskrit in the East Asian studies department.
Since Professor Atkins left the chair in 1978, his words of praise for Srila Prabhupada’s work apply only to the 1972 Original Bhagavad Gita As It Is. To place this review in the revised edition is disrespectful to the now deceased Professor.
No. You can’t do a posthumous edit without placing an editor byline on the cover or inside facing page of the book you have revised . The Original and the Revised Edition are two clearly different books.
The reviews for the 1972 Original cannot be used in the Revised version. BBTi could face litigation from the family of one of the reviewers who died before 1983, but his review is used in the 1983 Revised version.
Greetings and humble respects.
On a personal level I do not like to think that any of Prabhupada’s writings are being altered. I personally would prefer to read un-tampered writings and have little interest in reading altered writing.
But from an impartial, perspective, I have no concern about this issue. In reality Krishna is the ultimate controller. If the writing is being tampered with, then that is Krishna’s will. In fact all previous scriptural writing from many cultures have suffered in this way. Cancers grow on Krishna’s teaching no matter what culture the teaching is presented. It has to be this way for this is already prophesised. A slow decent away from the pure teaching is destined to happen. So I keep my thoughts away from whether this is right or wrong. Good or Bad. For the decline in religious principles is imminent. This is Krishna’s will. And it is our destiny. What is important is that devotees stay true to the pure teachings which are inscribed on our hearts. Lord Krishna should be first most on our minds. Let not your minds be disturbed by events that are always being controlled by Krishna. Krishna is controller, so do not worry about things that we cant control. We are at His mercy. Just surrender have faith and trust. Like a small child under the protection of his parent. This is the age of Kali. Moral decay is imminent.
Respects Martin
Hare Krishna Martin
You are not thinking clearly. Yes. It happens. After the disappearance of the Acharya the teachings are lost. But we as the followers of the Acharya have to protect and distribute his original teachings. That is our purpose as followers of Srila Prabhupada.
The demons of course will try to dilute and destroy the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, but this is NOT Krishna’s will. It is not that everything that happens is Krishna’s will. You have not understood. We are all parts and parcels of Krishna. We have a little independence. We can work for Krishna or against Krishna. Of course on a higher level this working against Krishna is only an illusion, maya. But still we have the choice. It is our choice to work against Krishna and Krishna’s pure devotees. That is not Krishna’s choice.
It is not that Krishna wants us to come here and suffer in the material world. That is our choice. We have rejected Krishna and want to become the controller ourselves. So Krishna has very mercifully created this material world for us. But Krishna comes Himself and sends His pure devotees like Srila Prabhupada to guide us, to show us the way back home back to Godhead.
It is not Krishna’s will that this way be clouded. That is the will of the demons.
So we have to fight to preserve and distribute the original teachings of Srila Prabhupada. That is our duty as followers of Srila Prabhupada.
You write “I do not think any of Prabhupada’s writings are being altered.” That is your ignorance. Go to http://www.bookchanges.com and you will see hundreds of examples where Srila Prabhupada’s writings have been substantially changed…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
You said that “It is not that everything that happens is Krishna’s will.” But it is not True. Whatever is happening is Krishna’s will, because Krishna is Supreme Controller. I don’t say that whatever is happening means Changing of Srila Prabhupada’s books is correct but everything is happening of Krishna’s will. Because Bhagavan has simultaneously contradictory qualities, such as He is formless, varietyless, qualityless as Brahman effulgence and at the same time He has many forms, full of variety, full of Transcendental qualities. He is Simultaneously Omniscient and Ignorant, He is Simultaneously Impartial and Partial. Because He is Impartial He maintains everything, everyone, whether anyone worships him or not, whether anyone believes in his existence or not, He don’t interfere in living entity’s limited free will but at the same time He is Partial. The Conclusion is Whatever happens is Krishna’s Will.
Hare Krishna Aditya
You are completely incorrect and do not understand the situation at all.
Krishna sanctions everything. So nothing can happen without Krishna’s sanction.
But Krishna gives us a little independence. That means we have some freedom to choose. So we can use that freedom properly and use it to serve Krishna or we can misuse that freedom and instead serve maya. In any case we are servants, but Krishna gives us the freedom to choose if we want to serve Him or if we want to not serve Him.
If we misuse our independence and choose not to serve Krishna then that is the beginning of our material life. And it is this misuse of our independence that creates all of our suffering in the material world.
Krishna does not want us to reject Him, but also our relationship with Krishna is only possible on the basis of pure love. So you can not force someone to love you. So Krishna does not force us to love Him. He deos not want us to suffer by rejecting Him, but He gives us the freedom to choose. And when we misuse that freedom we have to suffer the consequences. The suffering is caused by us alone, Krishna does not want us to suffer, but we suffer as a direct result of our own choices.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
I also said the same thing that everything happens by Krishna’s sanction, Krishna sanctions everything.
Yes. Krishna sanctions. But that doesn’t mean Krishna wants it or likes it. He allows us to do it but when we are rebelling from Him and going our own way that is not caused by Krishna, it is sanctioned by Krishna, but it is caused by our misuse of our limited independence. Krishna doesn’t like it, Krishna doesn’t cause it, Krishna doesn’t want it…
HARE KRISHNA! HARIBOL!
Please accept my respectful obeisances!
For me, there is no need to correct any books of Srila Prabhupada’s original manuscripts. They should be printed as it is, so that the real meaning of what he wants to convey, is intact and complete in themselves. And besides that is the WILL of SRI KRISHNA, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is my point.
If I have said something incomprehensible in this subject matter, I apologize as I am still lowly and unqualified.
Ys, Ikisvara das
Dear Hansadutta das babaji maharaj:
I appreciate your remarks on this subject. For my part, I favor only correcting gross errors obvious to any intelligent reader of the original versions.
As for Jayadvaita Swamis position that he is also correcting the English texts (SP purports) for errors in grammar, I challenge him to consider the fact that the old rules of grammer once thought sacrsanct are now thought of as arcane and not appropriate to modern usage of the American language as it is spoken, written and commonly understood by intelligent readers. This point is well acknowledged by leading academically qualified teachers of the English language in America. Many of the changes made by JS actually weaken the readability of the message communicated in SP’s purports. I’d be glad to explain this further if anyone cares to ask me about any specific book change.
YS, Saranga Thakur das