Correcting ISKCON’s Guru System
Being enlivened by so many thought-provoking observations and concepts on the subject of guru-tattva and the ISKCON institution I feel inspired to express some ideas and understandings on this issue.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, while reviving Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s Sankirtana movement, realized that the massive task of spreading Krsna Consciousness all over the world, in every town and village, would not be possible without the collective endeavors of committed devotees for generations to come. Therefore he saw the need for an institution, and gave the blueprint of that institution in the form of his “Namahatta” (the market place of the holy name) and “Visva Vaisnava Raja-Sabha.” (the Royal Assembly of the Vaisnavas from All Over the World).
Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura gave a shape to that concept in the form of his “Gaudiya Matha” and when that institution fell apart, Srila Prabhupada revived the spirit of his Guru Maharaja through ISKCON.
It is important to note that Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur, Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada, all three of them, gave more importance to the institution than to their own authority – in spite of being the founders and organizers of their institutions they placed themselves as ordinary members of their respective institutions. For example, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura indentified himself as the sweeper of the Namahatta. Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura called himself the servant of the Gaudiya Matha, and Srila Prabhupada identified himself as a mere member of the Governing body of ISKCON.
Although Srila Prabhupada spread Krsna Consciousness all over the world within the amazingly short span of ten years time, he knew that he would not be able to spread it in every town and village during his lifetime; rather, it would take generations to achieve that. That is why he was so emphatic about the effective continuity of his mission through his ISKCON. Personalities such as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada come to grace this world only once in a blue moon. It is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s causeless mercy that those three personalities came in such a succession. Their appearances on this planet was actually Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s divine arrangement for reviving His Sankirtana movement and fulfill His prediction that Krsna Consciousness movement would spread in every town and village on this planet. Although, being empowered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they could achieve anything and perform incredible miracles, yet, for the sake of fulfilling the ultimate purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission they emphasized the collective continuity of the movement through an institution. Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura was an extremely brilliant personality who attracted countless luminaries of his time within the fold of his Gaudiya Matha. However, soon after his disappearance when the Gaudiya Matha disintegrated, in spite of all those luminaries the propagation of Krsna Consciousness practically stopped.
Srila Prabhupada explained that, that happened because most his prominent followers could not understand the importance of continuing his mission through the institution he established.
They held on to the traditional concept and concluded that a spiritual heritage could not effectively continue through an institution managed by a bunch of mundane managers, they defied the instruction of their spiritual master and appointed an acarya [who eventually fell down] the institution that he so meticulously structured collapsed.
Srila Prabhupada, in order to protect his ISKCON from such an unfortunate possibility, emphatically told us not to make the same mistake that his god-brothers made after his Guru Maharaja’s disappearance. He advised us to continue the mission under the authority of a collective management structure. Nevertheless, after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, we in ISKCON also made a similar mistake. Thinking that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 successors we also plunged in to the same syndrome of appointing spiritual heads of the institution presuming that after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance they inherited ISKCON.
In 1987, about 10 years after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, this mistake was addressed by concerned leading devotees of ISKCON, but was not fully corrected. Just by adding more gurus and allowing them to initiate wherever they could attract disciples, that mistake was only diluted to some extent but was not really corrected.
Recently, the GBC body became painfully aware that through that mistake a parallel line of authority has been created in ISKCON which is causing a considerable amount of damage to the institution and is stifling the growth of the movement. It is very laudable of the GBC body that they have taken this issue very seriously and are working hard to rectify it.
In order to effectively establish an institution we need two essential elements – the head of the institution, and its management structure. In ISKCON we have to be absolutely clear that Srila Prabhupada is the head of the institution and he will continue to be that as long as the institution lasts, and the management structure Srila Prabhupada established – the GBC, temple presidents, departmental heads, etc, must be fully functional without any deviation.
If we compare the institution of ISKCON to a corporate structure, then we must recognize that Srila Prabhupada is the proprietor of ISKCON, and the other leaders of this institution are the managers. The managers manage, and although they get their remunerations and incentives for that, the profit belongs to the proprietor.
In ISKCON, it is important that we clearly recognize the fact that everything in ISKCON, including even all the devotees, belongs to Srila Prabhupada, then only this mistake that is stifling the growth of our institution will be rectified and Krsna Consciousness movement will start to spread once again, all over the world, in leaps and bounds.
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Dear Devotees/ Vaishnavas,
Hare Krishna!
Srila Prabhupada’s main aim was to introduce Love and service to Lord Sri Krishna and Guru Parampara and their servants. Srila Prabhupada sacrificed his comforts to serve and to educate the newcomers & aspiring devotees, by his own Example.
As Sri Prabhupada told us that Krishna is the Supreme Personality to Godhead, and we need to believe that and have STRONG FAITH in the LORD.
We need to learn to serve & love each other, showing by example, then Lord Krishna will be merciful to us and give us intelligence and vision, Prabhu Ji.
Guru is not Limited. Krsna says I am the Guru, then we need to be Humble, tolerant and Give Honor, wherever HE Shows us that Here I am!
Hare Krishna!
humbly yours,
Raj / ram
We have to learn how to love and serve Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. You misunderstand the process. We all cooperate together to please Krishna, and by pleasing Krishna, because we are all part and parcel of Krishna, all the parts and parcels are simultaneously satisfied. So not that we are trying to serve each other. We are trying to assist the other devotees in their service to Krishna. It is all about serving Krishna, pleasing Krishna. And this automatically pleases the devotees of course, because they are pleased when Krishna is pleased.
So you have missed the main point Prabhu.
Hare Krishna very nice understanding of subject thks for sharing its helpful.
Thk you for enlightening on this subject matter.Can you suggest some gurus in Iskcon who accept these truths and are delivering exactly on these lines.
There are no gurus in ISKCON who accept these truths and deliver them. In ISKCON guru is someone who represents the GBC and delivers the message of the GBC to their disciples. If an ISKCON guru were to actually represent Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and speak the absolute truth he would very soon be expelled from ISKCON.
Hare Krishna prabhuji tks for reply,this means the diksha guru in Iskcon accepts disciples on behalf of Prabhupada.Therefore initiated disciples are actually Prabhupada disciples as per your explanation so in this circumstance how can we be servant’s of initiating guru and serve him sincerely as advised by our senior associating initiated devotees.
No. That is not the system in ISKCON at all. ISKCON gurus do not at all accept disciples on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. That is the greatest crime in ISKCON. If you are in ISKCON and you want to take initiation from someone who will initiate you on behalf of Srila Prabhupada that is called ritvik and that is the greatest sin in ISKCON. You will be immediately excommunicated and thrown out of the temple. In ISKCON Prabhupada is dead and gone. You can not have Prabhupada as your guru in ISKCON. ISKCON have moved on from Prabhupada. They have a different philosophy now. ISKCON gurus initiate on behalf of the GBC, not Prabhupada. And by accepting a guru in ISKCON you become a servant of the GBC, not Prabhupada and not Krishna.
Yes, we must remain vigilant and keep picking away at the bogus guru virus.
We can vaccinate people with Bhagavada Gita As it Is Vaccine and keep our community of swans, safe in doing so.
Thank you Srila Prabhupada!
We love you and have not forgotten you, even in tough times.
Hare Krishna
No. “Picking away at bogus gurus,” that is useless. There is an endless supply of bogus gurus and an endless supply of fools looking to be cheated by bogus gurus. The world is full of fools wanting someone to reassure them that they can continue with their sense gratification and simply pay the bogus guru some money to guarantee their salvation. So the bogus gurus and their bogus customers will always exist.
But at the moment the problem is there are only bogus gurus. There are no real gurus. Except if they read Prabhupada’s books. But still most people will not read.
So what we have to do is become pure devotees of Krishna by surrendering to Srila Prabhupada and serving him and we have to become the real gurus to guide the sincere souls to Srila Prabhupada who will guide them back home back to Godhead.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Haribol.? I only ask for my consciousness.? to be purified by Krsna through the guidance of Sirila Prabhupada his servant.
I am follower of ISKCON & got initiated by H H Gopal Krsna maharaj.
Initiation dose not every thing. it is starting of the journey. now we have to strive for Prema Bhakti. The love for LORD KRSNA. It is 100% that Gajat guru Prabhupada is the main founder Achariya of IKCON & all glories to him for spreading krsna consciousness thru out world. secondly about Guru Parampara– all disciple of my DADA guru is final & as a devotee we have follow without any small variation without adding or deleting any thing ie is guru bhakti. Have pure faith on guru so that at the end we can get pada chaya & KRSNA PREM.
“no one can understand all the activities of a Pure Devotee”
The BBT needs to be realigned, the wording on the copyright transfer to BBTi must be repugnant to Krishna.
The managers have a heavy responsibility so they must be heavy themselves and not just be self imposed authority with bully tactics. Indeed who would declare themselves fit for the position if they are “humbler than the straw in the street”
We are to sit at his lotus feet to experience Purification through Krishna. You can not tell people how to behave if you are still deluded by the material World.?
Srila Prabhupada who himself is Jitendriya didn’t see any Soul who is eligible in Isckon to carry on the disciplinic succession, hence the ritvik sys.
Dear Madhudvisa Das,
I might suggest that you charge Bhakti Charu Swami (BCS) advertising fees for his article because this article is obviously a PR piece to bring the uninformed to his institution.
It is a clear expression of the neophyte conception of devotional service to minimize the sentiments of our great acharyas. We understand their expression of humility as a sign of their status as acharyas to encourage the devotees to see devotional service as absolute and not be puffed up; even if you are the empowered acharya and have done such great work as starting and directing a branch of the devotional tree that is entrusted with spreading the movement of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. This piece clearly misuses their humility for PR purposes. If one of these great souls humbly described himself as his spiritual master’s dog, Would BCS treat him like a dog?
BCS also does a great job of confusing the movement of Sri Chaitanya as directed by Srila Prabhupada with the now deviate institution of Iskcon. He seems to conveniently forget that Srila Prabhupada described Iskcon as merely a tool for spreading the movement and that if it becomes a burden we can dissolve it.
The movement is far greater than Iskcon, as Iskcon is now merely a representation of the neophyte conception of devotional service; not the pure vehicle for broadcasting transcendental realization to the world when it was under our great acharya Srila Prabhupada, because it is supporting such people as BCS that make such transparent attempts to delude the innocent about the greatness of our Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada and His movement.
I think BCS needs to take a truth-pill, but then again he would probably choke.
Advaita Das
Ps. I wouldn’t suggest you take a check for payment.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
My obeisances to you Prabhu.
I wrote an email to one of the ISKCON gurus named Mahatma Das. His answer surprised me. I have been a devotee for 46 years without initiation. I didn’t plan it that way I just always lived too far from a temple, I visited whenever I could. I lived at Hansadutta’s farm in Cal. for a short time and at both the Berkeley temple and the Portland Oregon temple. There were things going on at all these places that frightened me, so I left and practice on my own.
Recently I got to wondering if that was alright that I’ve avoided formal initiation, that’s why I wrote to Mahatma Das. He told me that Srila Prabhupada is and always will be my guru and that no initiation would ever change that. He basically told me it wasn’t necessary and that Srila Prabhupada will continue to guide me. He told me I just wouldn’t be able to take another guru.
He’s right Srila Prabhupada is the only guru I need or will ever need. I have read his books almost every day of the 46 years since I found them. They continue to live in and with me. I have read other spiritual books but no one writes better than my loving master Srila Prabhupada. His books are living and they continue to teach me.
Than you so much for all the work you do. I love the original copies of the books.
Haribol
Matthew
Srila Prabhupada Jagad Guru
t is very much inspiring to hear from Bhakti Charu Swami that what is stopping the progress of the KC movent is the direct attack to the transcendental personality of Srila Prabhupada. His good name, his assets, his books and his followers all are under attack by some inescrupulous people and as proven on internet global medias such as facebook and other privet websites.
Srila Prabhupada is the legal owner of Iskcon. Unity within Iskcon means to keep SP and Krishna in the center. So all Iskcon members should follow the rules and regulations of the Institution he established. Very simple; nontheless, a very importan fundamental principle within Iskcon. Iskcon leaders should govern under this fundamental principle.
The duty of the GBC is only managerial. As shown to TKM, Srila Prabhupada got upset whenever he heard that the GBC had assumed Guru Acarya powers.
According to Srila Prabhupada; the duty of the GBC is to check on the temples and farms around the world to secure that the standards established by SP are been followed. Even after his physical disappearance.
The GBC does not have Siksa-Sastric Acarya powers as to decide on which course Iskcon will take.
The answer to the question in regard to the Guru disciple relantionship and their relation with SP is actually very simple and natural.
I am the disciple of my Gayatri initiating Guru and Srila Prabhupada is my grand spiritual master.
The question rather becomes: Who is actually Guru? Within Iskcon Guru is the one that strictly follows the instructions of SP. No compromise.
It is very much inspiring to hear from Bhakti Charu Swami that what is stopping the progress of the KC movent is the direct attack to the transcendental personality of Srila Prabhupada. His good name, his assets, his books and his followers all are under attack by some inescrupulous people and as proven on internet global medias such as facebook and other privet websites.
Srila Prabhupada is the legal owner of Iskcon. Unity within Iskcon means to keep SP and Krishna in the center. So all Iskcon members should follow the rules and regulations of the Institution he established. Very simple; nontheless, a very importan fundamental principle within Iskcon. Iskcon leaders should govern under this fundamental principle.
The duty of the GBC is only managerial. As shown to TKM, Srila Prabhupada got upset whenever he heard that the GBC had assumed Guru Acarya powers.
According to Srila Prabhupada; the duty of the GBC is to check on the temples and farms around the world to secure that the standards established by SP are been followed. Even after his physical disappearance.
The GBC does not have Siksa-Sastric Acarya powers as to decide on which course Iskcon will take.
The answer to the question in regard to the Guru disciple relantionship and their relation with SP is actually very simple and natural.
I am the disciple of my Gayatri initiating Guru and Srila Prabhupada is my grand spiritual master.
The question rather becomes: Who is actually Guru? Within Iskcon Guru is the one that strictly follows the instructions of SP. No compromise.
Todas las glorias a srila Prabhupada ki yai !
Hare krishna prabhu.sri guru gaurangau vijayetam.
Jai srila prabhupada.
Prabhu!,I have a doubt.do you know srila
prabhupada’s iskcon bangalore? Have you heard about it ?prabhu! It is dominating iskcon.I can’t believe it prabhu.
Hare krishna prabhu.
Yours servant,
Hemanth Raj das.
Hare Krishna Hemanth Raj
Unfortunately both ISKCON and ISKCON Bangalore are both very different from Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON which has practically disappeared. Both are deviating from the teachings of Srila Prabhupada in different ways. So both are wrong, both are not Prabhupada’s ISKCON.
So it has created a rather difficult situation. The only real solution for us at the moment is that we have to very seriously read Srila Prabhupada’s books and understand exactly what Prabhupada is teaching us and what his ISKCON really is…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
“So my oral instruction as well as my books are all at your service.
Now you GBC consult them and get clear and strong idea,
then there will be no disturbance.
Disturbance is caused by ignorance;
where there is no ignorance, there is no disturbance.”
(Excerpt from letter to Hayagriva, 9/14/70)
Madhudvisa das Prabhu,
please aceept my humble obeisance. All glories to srila Prabhupada. If you type in google “11 Iskcon gurus” an aricle will come showing the photos of all the 11 Iskcon gurus who claimed to be the successors or Srila Prabhupada and a list of many more gurus. If we read the article it shows that all the gurus and many more gurus were totally fallen down. And what benefit do they give to the people who become their disiples?? Do all these gurus have the capacity to deliver the conditined souls?? Do they have the capacity as much as Prabhupad?? If no then isnt it wrong to claim themselves as gurus?? I had joined a Iskcon Vaishnava site called Iskcon desire tree. There were so many gurus and their worshippers. I shared my opinion that only Prabhupad should be worshiped as our sole guru and no one else. They suspended me from that site. I felt very bad. I deslike the whole of these guru system. No one can take the position and honour of Srila Prabhupada. No guru currently is so pure devotee and exalted soul like Prabhupad. Please comment on this Prabhuji.. Tell me are those articles stating the falling down of gurus true?
waiting for your reply
your servant
Rajesh Kumar
dear Gaura das, obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I have one comment prabhupada made to me about Kirtan He said, very forcefully……… ” We shall never be professional ” .- However , now everywhere I see and hear – musicians , posing as devotees have become professional performers of musical exhibitions of KIRTAN. It is sad, but true.
In Mayapur , one year Jayapataka Maharaja organized “a ” KIRTAN competition ” to which many groups came from outside and some from ISKCON , performing on stage.. While sitting in a darshan in his room, hearing this affair going on over the loud speaker, Prabhupada asked what it was. Someone explained , it is a Kirtan competion. He immediately said to stop it, kirtan is not for entertainment, or competition. His point was always that The musical exhibition of kirtan is meant for only ONE PERSON -KRISHNA. Unlike the mundane performers who are aiming to get the applause of the widest possible audience, the devotees performance of kirtan or Bhajan is sucessful only if he can get the applause of one person, KRISHNA, if krishna applauds one’s singing of kirtan, then it is sucessful. If the whole world applauds, and krishna is indifferent, then it is simply a nuisance. Kirtan is not entertainment, kirtan is service, an expression of the love the devotee has for Krishna. If the kirtaneer is performing to attract and get the admiration and love of the audience, it is simply an offence to krishna.
some devotees praise Kirtaneers like the entertainers – Krishna das etc. ( Kirtan has become a popular musical venue ) saying it is better than nothing, even though he may not be a real devotee. That is like saying counter-fiat money is better than nothing, even though it is counter- fiat. The fact is if you counter-fiat money, yoiu will be arrested by the government men. similarly with counter-fiat kirtan, one will be arrested by the agents of Yamaraja – sooner or later.
I hope this is interesting and useful for you.
Hansadutta das,
Your servant
P.S. I published a small book ‘ KIRTA- ANCIENT MEDICINE FOR MODERN MAN “, I’ll send you a copy if you are interested.
Dear Hansadutta Prabhu, Please aceept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Yes, in the preface to the ISKCON song book there is some mention where Srila Prabhupada is quoted as writing that Acyutananda Swami plays mridanga and sings like a profesional, and it appears to me that everyone is impressed that Srila Prabhupada has written like that. But my impression is that Srila Prabhupada is not impressed with such style of kirtan, not at all, but rather is warning us that we should not chant like that and not follow such examples.
On the one hand, we have the acharya. Srila Prabhupada writes in the CC purports that one can directly hear Lord Caitanya chanting through the disciplic succession. This purport comes in relation to a flow of verses wherein Krishnadas Kaviraj is describing how one becomes a pure devotee by hearing the chanting of a pure devotee and how this goes on via disciplic succession.
So we have Srila Prabhupada, the self-realized acharya, delivering the maha mantra to us in kirtan. We can hear his sound vibration, meditate on it and try to follow in his footsteps. In the last part of Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Srila Prabhupada writes: “The process is that the spiritual master chants the Hare Krishna mantra and the sound enters the ear of the disciple. If the disciple then chants with equal respect, that becomes the worship of the holy Name, and the Holy Name spreads His influence within the heart of such a disciple. ….. then ecstacies, etc…..”
But Achyutananda Swami has bypassed Srila Prabhupada and gone straight to the professional men, so that he can sing hari bol, hari bol, hari bol, as is done in Iskcon temples worldwide, by following his example. They have all by-passed Srila Prabhupada’s less exciting kirtan style (sarcasm) and gone off with Acyutananda to learn from the professional men how to really make it exciting. The blind leading the blind.
One time Gurukripa Swami came to L.A. temple. he was leading one such kirtan, having all of the devotees running back and forth accross the temple room floor. There was nothing in his style that brought me closer to Srila Prabhupada’s simple soulful hare krishna chanting. So I was simply standing before the Deity with arms upraised. I was not running up and down shouting hari bol, hari bol. Suddenly I received a blow to my back that sent me almost to my knees. It was Gurukripa. he was incensed that i was not part of his three-ring circus. I guess I have held this inside for some 40 years now. I must learn how to forgive him. But the point is the same. People are not understanding the philosophy of receiving the sound vibration of the pure devotee as the seed of devotion in the form of his sound vibration and cultivating that seed through one’s own chanting.
Once at Mayapur dham, Srila Prabhupada heard my chanting,following in his footsteps. Srila Prabhupada was upstairs in his room. He went to Bhavananda’s room and enquired who is leading that kirtan? Bhavananda Maharaja said’ That is Ishan, Srila Prabhupada, he tries to sing just as you do. Srila Prabhupada said, “He is intelligent. Only Ishan should lead the temple kirtans from now on.” One can check this out with
Bhavananda, if he can be located.
So it goes. Somehow or other, devotees have to come to understand the philosophy of Krishna Consciousness, so that they can apply the process. To hear Srila Prabhupada in Kirtan is to hear the sound vibration of a Pure devotee of Krishna who is singing in feelings of pure love of God. Nothing is lacking except that Srila Prabhupada does not display his ecstacy for all to observe, so that we do not have cheap imitation by his students. But his sound vibration is pure. Pure Krishna Loka in sound. Devotees do not understand the gift that is being offerred. If they understood who Srila Prabhupada actually is, how could they desire to hear anyone else, or to join in kirtan with anyone else other than one who is practising the cultivation of the sound-form seed of devotion through his own chanting. It is very confidential information, and Srila Prabhupada had his own discreet way of writing about these things. Someone must write a book. Perhaps you have discussed this aspect of kirtan in your Ancient medicine book. I would like to read it.
Nice to connect once again. Only your sincerity could have attracted me in 1968 – your sincere attachment to Srila Prabhupada. Thank you.
Your servant,
Ishan das
Thank you Hansadutta prabhu for your valuable reply based on what you heard from Srila Prabhupada and the offer of sending your book on kirtan to me. How is your health ? Please join the SRila Prabhupada Disciple’s group that I started online. Please forgive me if I made any offences to you.
Hare Krishna Gaura Prabhu
I have forwarded your message to the last email address I have for Hansadutta Prabhu. I do not know if it is his current address. I have not been in contact with him for some years now.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you very kindly Ishan prabhu for writing back to me.
I am staying in the home of a devotee who has spoekn of you to me in a very affectionate way on serveral occaisions, Veda Vyasa prabhu, from Vancouver. he will be pleased to know I am in touch with you.
If I can be an istrument to get you to publish your memoirs with Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON in general, that will be a great service.
Where and when did you first join ISKCON, and who first introducedyou to Krsna consciousness ?
I just spent a week with Gunagrahi Swami, and he is compiling info for the GBC on Kirtan Standards to be released as a book and he is looking for all quoes on Kirtan. Do you have any quotes from Srila Prabhupada regarding Kirtan specifically ? You must because of the Balarama mrdanga that you invented
If you have anything to say about Kirtan, I will forward your words to our godbrother Gunagrahi Swami
You could give a general introduction about yourself, and then one idea is that you could discuss Srila Prabhupada and your relationship with him in terms of different categories like management, music, prasadam, Deity worship, book distribution, etc….
Please do not delay in writing or recording. Who knows how much more time we have left in these bodies ?
I joined in 1975 in Winnipeg with Nandikesvara prabhu, Duryodhana Guru, Dharma Prana, Vyapaka, Gaura Nitai, then later SIvarama das Brahmacari, Sukra…..then I went with the devotees to meet Srila Prabhupada in Chiacago in the summer of 75 and I was totally blown away by his presence, humility, purity, freedom from pride, etc…. I took initiaion on June 2 76 in Detroit from Srila Prabhupada
ANother devotee that I served with for many years at the Ottawa temple was Laxminatha prabhu and Krsna das . Laxminatha also recounted his apprecation for you as well
Your servant
Gaura Das
Dear Ishan prabhu,
My obiesnces to you. Jai Prabhupada !
Your pastimes on this site , for me, are the most enlivening thing I have read, with all due respect to al lthe other devotees.
You said that you would be sharing more pastimes of Prabhupada , but unless I am going blind , where are they ???
I cannot wait !!!
THank you !!
Your aspiring servant,
Gaura das
Hare Krishna Gaura das! Pleae accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
You are not going blind, Prabhu. I have failed to do as I have said I would. I see that we are on this page that deals with the “guru issue”. And that is hardly the place to write as you are encouraging me. But I see that there is one part of this web site called “Memories.” But I do not know how to enter my memories under that heading. So I will write to Madhudvisa Prabhu and ask him how I can do this. And then I will begin to enter my memories as you are encouraging me. It will be very, very good for me to remember these moments. When I do get an answer from Madhudvisa Prabhu, I do not know exactly how to inform you that I have begun. I am from an earlier generation. And even navigating a web site can be puzzle for me sometimes. But I will write Madhudvisa Prabhu, and I promise you that I will begin putting these memories down in writing. I think that Krishna has put you on my case, just for my upliftment in Krishna Consciousness. Thank you, sincerely.
Your servant,
Ishan das
pamho agtacbsp we just tolerate the injustice they done to iskcon by kick out our beloved acharya as the only diksa guru for the next 9500 years, is not true that the guru must be physical present a lot of devotees got diksa by srila prabhupada without see him bcs says that all the devotees belong to srila prabhupada only bcs been sincere on this matter i don’t trust in all the other one, i know iskcon will come back to srila prabhupada but we are struggle at the moment to clean iskcon rubbish from unwanting leaders dandavats daso smi seva das haribol
sorry prabhus i think i been to heavy with my last message so just ignore it i apologise sorry dandavats daso smi seva das
jay prabhu pamho agtsp this is a world of cheating and cheaters as srila bhaktivinoda use to say we are losing the chance to get benefit from the best uttama adikari acbsp andham tamah pravisanti ye vidyam upasate tato bhuya ivate tamo ya u vidyayam ratah translation avidya or ignorance is undoubtedly dangerous but vidya or knowledge is even more dangerous when mistake or misguided sri isopanisad 9 we are lucky to have hh bcs in the iskcon to clean up aur movement from the rubbish of so called gurus who destroy the lives of sincere devotees i don’t want take revenge about what they done because unless they become pure devotees they have to suffer in the hell for the problems they cause to iskcon bbt founder acarya srila prabhupada ki jay trai gunya visaya veda nistrai gunyo bhavarjuna nirdvandvo nitya sattva stho niryoga ksema atmavan bg 2.45 to take the position of a uttama adikari without been qualify is very sinful like the sri isopanisad mention before i know will take time before the situation in the iskcon get clear 30 years already gone and i hope this clearance don’t take another 30 years we got the key to become pure devotees and if we are not yet is because we are misuse the power of acbsp our only hope is to cooperate with hh bcs because he is more advanced in the matter of this clearance connect to srila prabhupada just the uttama adikari can give enough information to take us out from maya because the others two classes are still progressing so i say to all these so called gurus to stop this cheating if they don’t want to suffer in patalaloka for misguided sincere devotees sadhu sanga is ok but given up dhanam janam and sundarim desire please i pray guru sadhu and sastra to get a healthy spiritual life that’s what we need to desire because spiritual life is already difficulty and these so called gurus make it even more difficulty without care what the sri isopanisad say about who cheat other people in the name of krsna they are the worst anyway gauranga mahaprabhu will do it as srila prabhupada say before to leave he will take care of iskcon for another ten thousand years so let me surrender to our best well wisher acbsp through the sincere sadhu not rascals and cheaters kali yuga nama rupa krsna avatara this is our only hope in this kalo sudra sambhavah situation dandavats daso smi seva das
jay prabhu pamho agtsp i’m agreed with hh bcs when he say that all the devotees belongs to srila prabhupada why? because srila prabhupada came as parivrajakacarya with srila rupa gosvamipada the personification of devotional service srila rupa gosvami told him personally great work will be done by you and i will be all the time next to you he told this to him when srila prabhupada was living in the radha damodara temple the centre of seva kunj rasa lila srila prabhupada desire was to live in vrindavan as a niskincana sadhu but sri krsna had big plain through acbsp our only desire should be nimitta matra this is the perfect preaching through the example without this example there is not preaching and srila prabhupada was the perfect preaching example through nimitta matra to srila rupa gosvamipada, he didn’t come alone he came with the company of siddha purusa to make siddha purusa through the time. tri guna maiya will be all the time with us until we live inside this body that,s why is important to be practical as srila prabhupada use to say do your business quickly and go back home without give too much importance about the temporary things of martyaloka this means to be practical a lot of godbrothers criticize acbsp while was try to save us but acbsp didn’t care about these wretch people full of poison because they was not able to do it that’s why they was against him srila prabhupada keep going he is the perfect practical example that everyone should follow without waste time in other things jay agtys and all the gaura bhakta vrinda dandavats daso smi seva das
A real lot being said and discussed. But is anything actually happening. Or, what should happen?
hat does HH Bhakti Caru Swami Maharaj propose the next step should be?? And when will that step be taken?
Best wishes to all.
Hari Bol Hansadutta prabhu. Nice to see you in action again. Thanks for all your help and direction in the past.
the worthless
bv kusum sraman swami
I had a look at HH Bhakti Charu Swami’s celebrating his birthday.
Whatever he may be writing, the mood is still not:
“All for Srila Prabhupada, none for me”
Vyasasana – exact copy of Srila Prabhupada, only smaller…
Imitating – not following……
Still soo attached to being “DIKSA GURU” , geting :”Vyaspuja”
Honor/Distinction, Adoration…….what a pity/what a loss!!!
It is important to note that Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur, Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada, all three of them, gave more importance to the institution than to their own authority – in spite of being the founders and organizers of their institutions they placed themselves as ordinary members of their respective institutions. For example, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura indentified himself as the sweeper of the Namahatta. Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura called himself the servant of the Gaudiya Matha, and Srila Prabhupada identified himself as a mere member of the Governing body of ISKCON
BY.BCS
THIS.IS.COMPLETE.BS.
PRABHUPADA.WAS.NOT.AN.INSTITUTIONAL.PERSON.
NOR.WERE.OUR.OTHER.ACHARYAS.
THEY.RAN.FROM.INSTITUTION.
WHAT.NEED.FOR.INSTITUTION.IF.YOU.ARE.SELF-REALIZED.?
HERE.BCS.PUTS.A.LARGE.FOOT.IN.HIS.OWN.MOUTH…………HOW.STUPID.CAN.HE.REALLY.BE.
TO.THINK.THAT.THESE.MEN.SELF-REALIZED.SOULS.WOULD.PUT.AN.INSTITUTION.BETWEEN.
THEM.AND.KRSNA…………PLEASE.
PRABHUPADA.WAS.HAPPY.IN.RADHA-DAMODARA.TEMPLE.HE.HAD.NO.NEED.OF.CREATING.
AN.INSTITUTION.
HERE.BCS.TRYS.TO.PULL.THE.WOOL.OVER.YOUR.EYES.BY.MAKING.THE.POINT.THAT.
INSTITUTION.IS.MORE.IMPORTANT.THAN.ACHARYA
YOU.ARE.A.SCOUNDREL.RASCAL.AND.A.VERY.DEMONIC.PERSON.
WE.DON’T.NEED.THIS.INSTITUTION.
IT.IS.ONLY.YOUR.ATTACHMENT.TO.THE.MATERIAL.WORLD.THAT.MAKES.YOU.CRAVE.THIS.
IT.WILL.ALL.BURN.IN.THE.END.
AND.WHERE.WILL.YOU.GO.WITH.THE.MATERIAL.OR.TO.GOLOKA?
KRSNA.IS.THERE.FOR.THE.HONEST.
WHERE.EVER.YOU.ARE.THERE.IS.KRSNA.AND.SRILA.PRABHUPADA.
In answer to Gadadhar Prabhu:
Maybe BCS Maharaja”s English is not good enough! Perhaps we all should check our English when posting…….
BTW: Wonder how he celebrated his birthday – grand saksat Guru hari style or as humble representative of THE ACHARYA…that will tell us his true colors, won’t it?
In answer to Ishan Prabhu:
Being “humble and meek” doesn’t mean “stupid and ready to be fooled”.
My impression is that these socalled leaders have counted on the sheeplike obedience of the devotees in order to cheat them on large scale and get what they wanted anyhow, as soon as they understood SRILA PRABHUPADA had no intention whatsoever to give IT to them…
So: in calling a thief a thief is speaking the truth and there is no question of any aparadh herewith.
Krishnapriya dd
your servant always –
In service of Srila Prabhupada!
I have the tendency to be very critical, which I do not think is a bad thing altogether. But I believe that we need to be careful in responding to any situation so as not to become offensive.
I never went along with the whole “guru business” from the beginning and never felt I needed to find a replacement for Srila Prabhupada since my association and instructions from him were there in his books.
I personally feel that No. America has been neglected and it has been much easier for devotees to go to India. Has it been forgotten that Prabhupada left India to bring Krsna Consciousness to the West. But preaching in America might not be as easy as it is in India. All these sannyasis should come to America, to every town and village, and preach. What an opportunity for them!!They might even bump into Prabhupada disciples and encourage and preach to them!!
your servant,
Sukhada dd
you can put the link there…..i suppose with approval of the management of this site…..Rukmini Priya
https://krishna.org/correcting-iskcons-faulty-guru-system/#comment-2232
Is there any way I can post this on my facebook the article and all the comments
thanks Rukmini Priya
“Acceptance of 11 devotees as gurus was mistake”.
“This mistake was addressed and diluted to some extent by adding more gurus”.
Yes, these two sentences are contradictory. You understood them correctly. But second statement should read “This mistake was compounded by adding more gurus”.
BCS is twisting the facts. They have Orwellian tongue. If accepting (imposition) of 11 gurus is a mistake then how can he say that adding more Gurus dilutes that mistake. If that is the case then make everyone a Guru and dilute the mistake so much that it will not look like a mistake.
There is a saying “Wise man should not contend with the tongue of a rascal”. These GBC gang is dominated by Gundas, Bandits, and Crooks. Rouges, Thugs, and Rascal pretenders are pretending as Rajarshis. That is all.
yhs- Gadadhar dasa
Hare Krishna to all the devotees of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Please do accept my most humble obeisances.
This letter to all concerned is in reference to the guru issue that we are all faced with.
Regardless of what is right or wrong, what has been done or is now going on, everyone of us must be very careful to keep this discussion on a refined level. We must never allow the urge to speak coarsely of other devotees to get the upper hand over our vigilant intelligence.
Let us remember that all of the devotees in our line are exalted beings and that I am the most fallen. Philosophically speaking, this is the only safe position that a devotee can take, regardless. Even our dear Lord Sri Krishna declares in Bhagavad-gita that the most abominable activites of His devotees will very soon be overcome. Krishna is enthusiastic for all of our progress in Krishna Consciousness. None of us has come to this material world out of our desire to save the conditioned souls. Rather, we have turned our backs toward our eternal Well-Wisher, so that we can try our hand at taking Krishna’s position as our own.
We must never forget the wonderful service that these men have done in their efforts to endear themselves to our Srila Prabhupada. Otherwise why would Srila Prabhupada have singled them out and asked them to please relieve His Divine Grace of so many management aspects for keeping our Krishna Conscious ship afloat safe and sound. Many of them have risked life and limb time and again in the coarse of their devotional service.
So who among us is perfect? Who among us could take on such great responsibility? Our contention is that these men have set in motion a trend which is not in accord with the desires of the entire parampara. It is good that we are firmly convinced as to what is the correct posture of those who wish to carry on in leadership positions. But we must not abuse this opportunity to have a voice in these preceedings, lest we undermine our own stability in the unfolding of our Krishna Consciousness. If we really want to render service, then we must be grateful for all that these men have done in this most great mission. And at the same time we must pray for their growth in Krishna Consciousness. Krishna says that He privides rememberance, forgetfulness and knowledge to all of us from within our hearts. Therefore let us pray to Krishna that He help these men to get the engine back on track. That is the best use of our right to have a voice in these issues.
Srila Prabhupada has said time and again the bees are attracted to the honey and the flies are attracted to the stool. If we cannot resist the temptation to direct our anger and abuse on devotees that have lost their footing, how can we blame those who are struggling with the heavy burden of their errors?
We are a spiritual family. And we can only proceed together. Srila Prabhupada has pointed that out to me, when I lost my bearings.
Again please accept my most humble obiesances. Aspiring to become a servant of the devotees, Ishan das
Nicely said. I to had lost my way but always remained friends with many devotees. Their association has been Krsna’s mercy. I have been finding my way back slowly by reading, chanting (I still am not chanting my 16 rounds, but chanting nonetheless), and associating with devotees. I keep my distance from the “guru business”. I am the most fallen and pray that I can keep the association of devotees.
I remember your good self and wife from the early days in Boston. You both were humble and striving to serve your Spiritual Master. It does not surprise me to read what you have written. Thank you for your calm and peaceful dialog.
your servant,
Sukhada dd
“The Collective Acharya” By Kailasa Candra dasa
The cult to the personality
When the very best thing is imitated and perverted, it quickly degenerates into the very worst thing; this is a universal principle.
ISKCON and the BBT were created in the context of legal bodies recognized as such by the State. So, Srila Prabhupada never intended for the GBC to be a corporate entity. That is clear. The GBC was formed with its constitution and limitations spelled out in a document called now by its acronym, the DOM (Direction of Management). It was set up as an –unincorporated– trust, governed by the DOM. Ravindra Svarupa calls the DOM as part of Prabhupada’s “initial ideas”. This is a self-serving false allegation. The GBC was set up as no more than an advisory board to the Temple Presidents. And this was demonstrated in the DOM itself, in the fact that the Presidents had a checks and balances counterweight spelled out in the DOM. The DOM cannot historically be either belittled or considered irrelevant; it was integral to the very essence and existence of the Governing Body Commission.
“GBC does not mean to control a center. GBC means to see that the activities of a center go on nicely. I do not know why Tamal is exercising his ‘absolute’ authority. That is not the business of GBC. The President, Treasurer and Secretary are responsible for managing the center. GBC is to see that things are going nicely but not to exert absolute authority. That is not in the power of GBC. Tamal should not do like that. The GBC men cannot impose anything on the men of a center without consulting all of the GBC members first. A GBC member cannot go beyond the jurisdiction of his power. . . . it is a fact that the local President is not under the control of the GBC.” Letter to Giriraj, Aug. 12, 1971 from London (emphasis added)
ISKCON never had any central corporate entity and it was never meant to have one. This is why, in part, the Long Island rittviks and their Bangalore counterparts were able to win recent lawsuits against “GBC” (GBC) antagonists. The GBC was never mentioned in the ISKCON or BBT Articles of Incorporation or in its By-Laws. And in the DOM –which, as aforementioned, was meant to govern the GBC and spell out the limitations of its power– it clearly says, “His Divine Grace has final approval in all matters.” This means that Srila Prabhupada’s authority was explicitly superior to any GBC advisor and to the whole commission itself.
It is self-evident that the GBC were not some kind of Goliath Group owners of ISKCON and BBT, and that none of its members could be on the Board for a very long duration. The originally appointed GBC commissioners from 1969 are on the “GBC” in 2009.
The commissioners were to serve three-year terms but they must all be re-elected in order to continue on the Board; this was also stipulated in the DOM. Herein, we find the First Deviation: The “GBC” (GBC) never informed the other Temple Presidents that the DOM even existed. They never informed them about their fiduciary responsibility in relation to the DOM and their inherent power to serve as check and balance counterweights to the power of the GBC.
This deviation was never rectified and as such, it actually guts the whole foundation of the thing, especially after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada. But the deviations were numerous.
The DOM clearly stipulated: “It is declared that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is the Founder-Acharya of ISKCON. He is the supreme authority in all matters of the Society. His position cannot be occupied by anyone else . . .” Prabhupada always held this position, right to the very end. That he never fully trusted the GBC can be found in many of his letters. For example: “Then collect the opinions of each and every GBC member, and, if the majority supports the idea, then it should be taken as a fact for being carried out in our society. The majority vote and my opinion should be taken. When the majority opinion is present, my opinion will be yes or not. In most cases it will be yes, unless it is grievously against our principles.” Letter to Bhagavan on Aug. 20, 1971 from London (emphasis added)
“Grievously against our principles”!!!!! How could a body that now claims it was constituted of the best devotees enact decisions that were grievously against the principles Srila Prabhupada established? How could an absolute group Leviathan be prone to stipulate something grievously against the Absolute principles? How could a body that claims its decisions must be the best possible –because so many “advanced” devotees put their heads together to make such decisions– legislate decisions that are grievously against the principles of Krishna Consciousness? Well, it could and it did in 1978, for example, it did so on a devastating and unprecedented scale. It has been legislating and promoting cover-up “mistakes” in order to obscure that “mistake” ever since, and it has shown that it deserves to receive no allegiance from anyone.
Srila Prabhupada in any moment calls the G.B.C. as the ultimate managerial authority but, THEY ASUME THAT SRILA PRABHUPADA APPOINTED THE G.B.C. TO BE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY. In other words, that Prabhupada assigned the position of successor authority (Acharya) to a group, to the GBC. This is the major deviation from how a Vaishnava parampara continues. A group is never a collective Acharya; neither can it decide who is guru or Acharya. Is supposed that the “GBC” could not decide how the sampradaya continue. This hubris is immeasurable and this audacity of the “GBC” translated into the self-apotheosis of its Zonals “Acharyas”. What Prabhupada had said was; “Ritvik initiators, that’s all,” and, much more importantly, is that he had not given the order to become guru to any of his disciples formally during the time he was still manifest, became relegated to ancient history and ultimately considered irrelevant. The “GBC” had supposedly received the full functions of Srila Prabhupada’s will, purity and transcendental authority.
The genuine guru personally orders his disciple to become guru, when that disciple reaches the level required by his guru and when the guru estimates that his disciple should begin initiating new people into the line. Obviously, the genuine guru will never personally give such an order to any disciple who still possesses even one anartha. A guru cannot have anarthas; that is not possible. There is no such thing as a bad guru or a pseudo-guru or a sahajiya guru; but this is the worst thing of all and considered a new kind of atrocious: “A Collective Acharya.” Evidently these kinds of “devotees” are loaded with anarthas and they pass their anarthas on to their initiated disciples, converting ISKCON into a clandestine cult. The GBC should be accepted as “The Supreme Authority” and of course they claim that they have to be worshipped as “Mahabhavagatas.”
In terms of “ISKCON” dogma, who protest against it is considered a dissident. If someone denounces some of these “Lilas” he is immediately denounced as: “A demon”. Any rebellion against this arrangement is said to be a kind of defiance (guror-avajna) against the Founder-Acharya, Srila Prabhupada—in the form of a direct defiance against his so-called successor, the “GBC.”
All of these men are full-blown sahajiyas. Each of these supposed Mahabhavagatas perverted into a terrible caricature of siddha-purusa. They are all pseudo gurus and in this monstrosity of their anarthas are supposed to be absolute and praiseworthy. So, instead of somewhat of them keeping their original initiated names, almost all of them adopted as a fashion other names, usually ending in “pada.” This was a deliberate and ultimately laughable imitation of Prabhu-pada. Rather than go over their auto-named “pada” and how ridiculous each of those titles are, it is the more efficacious way to understand how each of them became a caricature of guru, as they attempted to carve out an absolute identity as De Facto Popes within their zones. So, the fragmented movement now had to contend with; “ISKCON guru vrinda” (The Vanity Fair Despot, the Scholar, the Teflon Pundit, the Sun King, the Libertine, the Pusher, the Machiavellian Manipulator, the Fanatic Flag-Waiver, the Psychotropic Sahajiya, Das Fuhrer Comet, the Post-Modern Magician, the Inflexible, the Joker and other Clowns.) They are great cheaters and everyone who followed them and actually believed that they are God-realized lovers of Truth constituted the cheated. So the “ISKCON” movement devolved into the newest Transnational Corporation of Cheaters and Cheated.
This imposition of these men as “mahabhagavats” –all of whom are loaded with personal and institutional anarthas– was a scheme that appeared unbeatable at first. They all had their own zones of influence. Had they stayed in their turfs and not criticized one another —if they had also not attempted so many outrages— then the concoction is to dominate everything and everyone. However, when conditioned souls, loaded with anarthas, imitate guru –and particularly when they imitate the actual self-realized soul– their destruction is arranged for by the demigods. This is, in part, because they are imitating the demigods.
The immeasurable pride and audacity of these pretender mahabhagavats are not merely the megalomania of some powerful leader of a nation-state. No. All of these men are absorbed in the delusion of self-apotheosis. They are all absorbed in the material mind and in their lusts and desires (kama-sankalpa), thinking these desires to be absolute. They are all absorbed in anger and hatred against anyone who criticized or thwarted them in any way. They are all very insane, but, due to having performed some buddhi-yoga in years past, they are still (generally) shrewd in their insanity. They are completely intoxicated of proud by their great power over others, by the gopis who dance for them in front of their so-called vyasasans, and by the buzz they received on a daily and hourly basis as objects of worship by hundreds of dedicated fools and fanatics. They are regularly subjected to the fear of their scheme being exposed, especially by knowledgeable godbrothers who could see the fault lines in this unauthorized arrangement. They are very greedy for more and more fame and influence, more and more “knowledge” of ways to better pull the whole thing off, for more and more disciples, more and more power and more and more Laxmis or Gopis.
They are “GBC” loyal. The “ISKCON” movement is completely under the control of the “GBC.” Unlike ISKCON, however, the real GBC no longer exists—and, as far as that goes, it never did function in a bona fide way for a great deal of time even while Srila Prabhupada was still with us. The evolution of this governing body has been long in duration, the offenses have been very great and the GBC has been ruined permanently, warped and perverted into the “GBC.”
The most important thing to consider here is that Srila Prabhupada did not approve the Politicians or Party Men. He in effect condemned this kind of functionary. The “ISKCON” movement is dominated by Party Men. The Party Men cooperate (conspirate) with the Zonals (of course, the Zonals themselves are all Party Men) and help to empower them. The Party Men (faction) is a multi-faceted dynamic, composed of fanatics, sycophants, henchmen and temple officers. It always has been so. The Men of the Party “ISKCON” represent themselves as if they are in Krishna Conscious resolving everything saying; “This is a Krishna’s arrangement.” The dynamic of the Party Men is found in that their thoughts, character and personality are clones of Prabhupada’s and are at the same level of the Supreme Lord’s Thoughts, Character and Personality.
To ensure their position in the Party; the Men measure the ideals in terms of their position in the corporate structure. Then whatever they are doing or saying is considered spiritual by them. So for them sexual education is spiritual education. The preaching of follow the four principles, the chanting of the 16 rounds and to make of your home a temple has no meaning for them. Their preaching of knowledge reach the summit: “One can cheat everybody some times, a few all the times, but no one can cheat everybody all the times …. I am vegetarian because my doctor asks me this; but when I go to a party I don’t fall in lies with myself….”
The Party Men shift with the ever-changing winds of corporate doctrine, because they are devoted of the “GBC.” The Party Man is a particularly nasty piece of work. He usually comes in the form of a sannyas and habitually completely without genuine conscience. His intelligence always works to ponder the Party Line and the current momentum; he always wants to make sure that he will be on the side that is winning. His shibboleth is: “‘ISKCON’–with all thy faults–I still love thee!” He is always backs the current transformation and “We are in permanent transformation.” The only constant is the change.
The Party Men at the topmost stratum are the real controllers of this kaitava-dharma and they are not entirely members. They are protected by back-guards and killers. They openly say: “I am not Hare Krishna, but a servant of God.”
Indeed, as far as astral powers are concerned, they are not ordinary men. They are like the brain police (totalitarism) and they control almost all the other devotees; powerful Party Men even have the ability to influence malcontents. These are some of the techniques of the Party Men, who are masters at creating doubt and guilt, masters of deception, masters at bewilderment, masters at enticement, masters at pseudo-persuasion and, when the situation calls for it, masters at harassment and various psychic punishments. They have their own spheres, both gross and subtle.
The various followers, who are weak in knowledge, mind control, and yogic development, can hardly escape the network of the Party Men once they become entangled in it. The Party Men buttress this astral network via the buildings, Deities, vehicles, properties and money on the gross plane, and those innocent but foolish devotee followers are completely trapped by them and their manifestations. If such neophytes try to escape, ultimately they have to contend with danda from the Party Men. Take it from one who knows: You will not come out unscathed when the Party Men decide to punish you. But all the mud they have thrown on so many people is now starting to get tossed back their way and that momentum will continue. There is a universal principle involved in that: Some call it the law of karma.
Krishna Consciousness means to see as Lord Krishna sees, to see as the Chaitya-guru or Paramatma sees. To become Krishna Conscious means to see the Party Men as what they really are.
vidyam cavidyam ca yas
tad vedobhayam saha
avidyaya mrtyum tirtva
vidyayamrtam asnute
“Only one who can learn the process of nescience and that of transcendental knowledge side by side can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality.” Sri Isopanisad Mantra 11
We are delineating the process of nescience for your spiritual well-being and ultimately, so that you can transcend the influence of repeated birth and death and enjoy the full blessings of immortality. The “GBC” is part of the process of nescience. The “ISKCON” controls are so. The process of recognizing gurus in “ISKCON” is integral to the power of the Party Men who serve to keep everyone they can implicate in their nescience.
At this point an objection might be raised. The reader might protest that this treatise is “too negative.” Is it so? Well, we first must know what constitutes “negativity.” New Agers used to say: “Do not be judgmental; no negativity.” However, if we analyze that motto, we see that it is itself composed of three negative components. The issue is not objective negativity; the issue is the application of negativity. When a surgeon removes a cancerous tumor, the bloody operation involves quite a bit of negative action. However, if successful, that outcome is judged very positive. So the modus operandi takes a back seat to the outcome, as far as the final judgment is concerned, especially when the operation is a success (this, by the way, is a proper example of Prabhupada’s phalena-pariciyate *the answer is the proof* statements).
When any kind of organization is running powerfully, it is able to do so because one man embodies and exemplifies it. When there is no such man, the organization muddles on in a divided and often semi-disorganized manner. As such, a really powerful corporation is but the shadow of one man. When transformations devolve, it usually does so under one man’s influence. The conspirator was Bhakti Charu with the assistance of three corporate manipulators Tamal, JayPataka and Jaydwaita. They did so in no small measure because they were able to secure the post of “taking care of” Srila Prabhupada in his last days. Something very nefarious took place during those final months (“Someone has poisoned me”). Srila Prabhupada’s wishes were not honored. We shall not go into the poison issue, but suffice it to say that there is plenty of evidence—and that evidence is not weak. Exactly how it all transpired is almost impossible to know without a smoking gun, i.e., without someone who was implicated spilling his guts. But we do know that Prabhupada ordered that he be taken on parikrama during the last month and that order was disobeyed. In this way were developing the intrigue, the treachery and the corruption that were quickly becoming institutionalized.
The big brothers made the great power play and case closed. Any kind of future disgruntlement would be extinguished before it could even get started. The “GBC” is the ultimate controlling vortex of the fabricated so-called “ISKCON” confederation. Even its personified representative can be dragged down if he strays from its astral pleasure. The “GBC” is not linked to the Madhva-Gaudiya Sampradaya or any devotional parampara powerhouse.
There are universal laws and principles to make sure such combustible instability does not last long. These men were initiating new people, all of whom had little or no knowledge of the Vedic or Vaishnava teachings, all of whom had little or no detachment from material enjoyment, and all of who were prime candidates to be mislead by powerful, charismatic pretenders: “The ignorant pseudo religionists and the manufacturers of so-called incarnations who directly violate the Vedic injunctions are liable to enter into the darkest region of the universe because they mislead those who follow them. . . If such foolish men have any knowledge at all, it is more dangerous in their hands than ignorance itself. . . The pseudo religionists have neither knowledge nor detachment from material affairs, for most of them want to live in the golden shackles of material bondage under the shadow of philanthropic activities disguised as religious principles.
By a false display of religious sentiments, they present a show of devotional service while indulging in all sorts of immoral activities. In this way, they pass as spiritual masters and devotees of God. Such violators of religious principles have no respect for the authoritative acaryas, the holy teachers in the strict disciplic succession. . . Instead, to mislead the people in general, they themselves become so-called acaryas, but they do not even follow the principles of the acaryas. . . These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in the Bhagavad-gita that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell (Bg. 16.19-20).
Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification.” Sri Isopanisad, Verse 12, purport.
At this point, it is important to get some understanding of spiritual or devotional initiation. The pretender mahabhagavats conducted many initiation ceremonies. Real initiation in the devotional line means to receive the bhakti-lata-bija. Some devotees opine that it can only be received by getting it from a manifest mahabhagavat. There are shastric counter-indicators, as well as favorable commentary on those by Srila Prabhupada. Of course, those indicators will be misused in Kali Yuga by powerful men laboring to fulfill their own personal ambitions. The issue of the transference of the bhakti-lata bija is a very subtle topic. While Srila Prabhupada was manifest, all devotees who received initiation from him had the bhakti-lata bija planted in their heart of hearts. That does not, however, mean that all those devotees were completely sheltered from receiving other bijas during that time. For instance, the “ISKCON” bija was infecting the Party Men during the time of Prabhupada’s manifest lila and since then, that weed has turned out to be the predominant bija of the twisted three.
The point has been made that getting initiated during the time of Srila Prabhupada’s manifest preaching activities was an easy accomplishment. From one perspective, this argument appears to have teeth, because approximately five-thousand devotees did receive initiation during that eleven-year period. However, recommendations to Prabhupada for initiation almost always came through the medium of various hierarchical authorities: Temple Presidents, GBCs, and sannyasis were the primary persons who made these recommendations. And here is where you need to contemplate and understand a very subtle point. Even while Prabhupada was with us, the Party Men –in their patented niyamagraha fashion– considered that spiritual advancement was non-different from moving up the latticework of the bureaucratic rungs, i.e., distinction as a Temple President automatically connoted a spiritual advancement superior to all the “inmates” (under his orders) in that temple.
Similarly, receiving sannyasa (was only for aristocratic devotee who was allowed to all sorts of commodities and servants) allegedly amounted to automatic recognition of higher spiritual realization. And getting posted to the governing body was more or less considered tantamount to being the most spiritually advanced, the best man amongst all the other initiated devotees. Similarly the marriages were only for ugly females with awesome devotees, and keep so the beautiful girls always running towards the authorities searching for a husband.
Time, insight and experience have shown all of this to be a misconception. Within the temples, devotees who wanted to receive initiation from Srila Prabhupada did not necessarily do so in the context of the same motivation. Since the conduit to receive initiation was the approval of the Temple President (or, in some cases, the sannyasi who headed their party), sucking up to the leader–a kind of profit, adoration, and distinction offering to him—was sometimes employed in order to receive the recommendation more quickly and more easily. Other devotees did not consider the various Temple Presidents to be all that they thought they were, but these devotees still performed their seva—sometimes in severe austerity—under the sanction of their Temple President.
These devotees, despite the fact that they often produced very tangible results, were generally not favored by the Temple President or sannyasi leader as much as the psycophants were; especially if he was already in the process of developing an upadhi (big positions are sometimes created for big egos). In his mind, these other devotees might also become competitors for his position. These devotees had to figuratively crawl on glass in order to finally get recommended for initiation by their assigned leader. When Srila Prabhupada received a letter requesting initiation for a devotee from a Temple President, he almost always granted the request. Sometimes he did not, however. We can confidently assume that once the initiation ceremony was performed after the request had been granted by Prabhupada, the bhakti-lata-bija was received by the newly-initiated devotee. Even before the formality of initiation, the devotee had received from his guru (Srila Prabhupada) the bija of sraddha (komala-sraddha) and associated with the Sampradya Acharya (sadhu-sanga) on a very regular basis via the seva rendered and the literatures read. This sraddha, although it is soft faith, is still constituted of a firm conviction that the yoga process of bhakti will accomplish completely all the legitimate spiritual aspirations of the sadhaka (that can be attained from any other Vedic process of dharma or yoga).
Once the harer-nama initiation was formally received at the bhajana-kriya stage, the devotee had received the Holy Name in disciplic succession and the bhakti-lata-bija could be very effectively cultivated. When the devotee made further progress on the path–when he began to approach the stage of getting free from anarthas and realizing the Brahman–he received diksa (again, after a letter of recommendation was sent by his authority to Srila Prabhupada). He attained second initiation and the gayatri mantra. This means that he was now recognized as having moved closer to the guru, Srila Prabhupada. However, the sycophants and fanatic followers allowed a weed to be planted in the garden of their hearts during this time, because of their unauthorized worship (in effect) of the local leader who appeared to control their spiritual destinies. They invariably received the “ISKCON” bija. This weed is a corporate imitator of the bhakti-lata-bija. It eventually works to strangle the real bija, sucking up all the watering process for itself. Srila Prabhupada cannot be blamed; you cannot pin it on the Sampradaya Acharya.
The blame goes to the individual who attempted to shortcut the process of initiation by considering it from a material perspective. The blame also is shared by those sannyasis, GBCs, and Temple Presidents who began to look at all the devotees under their charge as persons who could make no progress in the movement without first surrendering to them. By 1977, the majority of devotees in all the temples, on all the traveling parties, and in all the zones were arguably more absorbed in the personality cult of their local leader than in Srila Prabhupada, who was pretty much relegated to the position of figurehead by that time. It was a travesty. Those devotees who bucked the trend found ever-increasing resistance within the confines of the international confederation; they were often considered crazy.
This “ISKCON” consciousness was hardly apparent in the early and even mid-Seventies. When I preached on the college campuses back then, I never thought of the corporate acronym. I never named my campus initiatives as anything relating to the corporation; I generally called them Bhakti Yoga Clubs. When I gave a platform lecture, I never spoke of the movement in terms of its acronym. I instead preached the philosophy, or talked about a pastime of the Lord, or glorified Srila Prabhupada, or discussed the process and the importance of initiation from the bona fide Spiritual Master, etc. However, very gradually and insidiously, the Party Man consciousness began to seep into the movement, and all real advancement began to only be measured according to its paradigm.
Side by side with this material development (perversion) was an overemphasis on the commissioners of the governing body. The real nectar was in chanting japa or sankirtan, in book distribution, in Deity worship, in reading the books, in preaching engagements, etc. However, insidiously, another kind of very contaminated consciousness began to enter. The personalities of the governing body were considered to be like demigods who controlled the movement and deserved all attention, profit, adoration, and distinction. Some devotees never cooperated with this idea, and their path became more and more difficult. So, in order to understand how the movement was being ruined from within, it is necessary to consider what this commission was actually meant to be—and what it actually became.
“….Do not tries to initiate. You are not in a proper position now to initiate anyone . . . Don’t be allured by such maya . . . Don’t be allured by cheap disciples. Go on steadfastly to render service first. If you immediately become guru, then the service activities will be stopped; and as there are many cheap gurus and cheap disciples, without any substantial knowledge, and manufacturing new sampradayas, and with service activities stopped, and all spiritual progress choked up.” — Letter to Acyutananda/Jaya Govinda on Aug. 21, 1968 from Montreal (emphasis added)
Secretary: What about the so-called gurus that takes a little bit here, a little bit there? Prabhupada: So-called gurus, they are so-called gurus. They are not gurus. That is already explained. If one does not speak what Krishna speaks, he is not guru. If you accept so-called guru, that is your misfortune. What can be done?
Secretary: Some of them will say some things that Krishna says, but they’ll take from other places also. What is the position of such persons?
Prabhupada: He’s most dangerous. He’s most dangerous. He is opportunist. He’s finding out customer, something here … According to the customer he is giving something, as the customers will be pleased. — Answers to Questionnaire Room Conversation on June 28, 1976 (emphasis added)
Srila Prabhupada in coming back convert in millions.
Hare Krishna!
Wow! Shrila Prabhupada is coming back! convert in millions! What a nectar to the ears! Thank you Gaurasundar Prabhu! Your name gives me a similar sweetness too! It makes me feel like running out right away for book distribution! Well, although I am totally drowned and destroyed, full of laziness and hopeless at present KC- wise.
Dear Hansadutta prabhu,
Pamho. AGTSP.
Indirectly you are admitting here that all of you have cheated the body of devotees. I appreciate your attempt to come clean of your part in these consecutive guru hoaxes.
Pray that GBC and everyone, who has ever been part of Iskcon, is part of Iskcon, would love to be part of Iskcon – if it were back to being genuine and in line with Srila Prabhupada’s order will open their eyes and become not only aware of all the cheating that has been going on for years….but also of the great illusion they are in – and hurry to restore Srila Prabhupada’s movement.
Thank you so much for your input in this matter. If you are nobody, who am I, an insignificant particle of dust at the feet of Srila Prabhupada’s transcendental boat, that is now hijacked by pretending captains… but one thing I have and want to share with the whole world is this: HONESTY FIRST!
Please help restore this one leg of Dharma; else everything Srila Prabhupada has managed to achieve will become covered for many many years to come, only to be brought back to life when Krishna again sends a pure devotee of the calibre of Srila Prabhupada. Thank you.
your servant,
Krishnapriya dd
Dear Bhakti Caru Maharaja,
Please accept my most humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. It’s been some years since we met and associated in person ( Mayapur 2003, later in Berkeley Ca. Temple ) I think of you often with fond memories. Sometimes you asked me how ” The Guru problem might be solved “……, we would discuss, but nothing came of it. Now you have publicly posed the issue, so I feel I should make some comments that might shed some light on the matter. Please allow me to go thru your presentation and make some comments.
Correcting ISKCON’s Guru System
My fist comment is: the title you have chosen is misleading, it is not ISKCON’S GURU SYSTEM the title should be Prabhupada system for future initiations in ISKCON.
August 10, 2009 by Bhakti Charu Swami
Filed under Guru, ISKCON, Prabhupada
78 Comments
By Bhakti Charu Swami
Being enlivened by so many thought-provoking observations and concepts on the subject of guru-tattva and the ISKCON institution I feel inspired to express some ideas and understandings on this issue.
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, while reviving Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s Sankirtana movement, realized that the massive task of spreading Krsna Consciousness all over the world, in every town and village, would not be possible without the collective endeavors of committed devotees for generations to come. Therefore he saw the need for an institution, and gave the blueprint of that institution in the form of his “Namahatta” (the market place of the holy name) and “Visva Vaisnava Raja-Sabha.” (the Royal Assembly of the Vaisnavas from All Over the World). Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura gave a shape to that concept in the form of his “Gaudiya Matha” and when that institution fell apart, Srila Prabhupada revived the spirit of his Guru Maharaja through ISKCON.
It is important to note that Srila Bhakti Vinod Thakur, Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada, all three of them, gave more importance to the institution than to their own authority – in spite of being the founders and organizers of their institutions they placed themselves as ordinary members of their respective institutions. For example, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura indentified himself as the sweeper of the Namahatta. Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura called himself the servant of the Gaudiya Matha, and Srila Prabhupada identified himself as a mere member of the Governing body of ISKCON.
Of course Prabhupada displayed the example of ” Being a mere member of ISKCON ” to teach us humility, he nevertheless adamantly insisted that ” Founder Acharya of ISKCON ” be prominently displayed on the cover of his books, he furthermore instructed ” I wish that each and every temple be independent, keeping the Acharya in the center”.
Just as Krishna played the perfect friend, ,messenger, chariot driver, family member, henpecked husband and lover while on earth. Still in Bhagavad gita he demanded that everyone surrender to him, because he is the supreme personality of Godhead. After giving so many instructions -Karma Yoga, Bhakti yoga, Jnana yoga, astanga Yoga, Sankhya yoga etc……… – to Arjuna , Krishna concludes everything by saying , ” forget all this Dharma and just do what I say, and dont worry ( If there is some fault or wrong ) I WILL PROTECT YOU FROM ALL SINFUL REACTION, DO NOT FEAR.
In the final moments of Prabhupada’s life he issued his all important and final instructions for continuing initiations in ISKCON by naming 11 RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ACHARYA. By ignoring this final prescription of the Acharya, disaster has befallen ISKCON, and will continue to fall until it is perfectly and unhesitatingly obeyed by one and all ISKCON devotees.
Although Srila Prabhupada spread Krsna Consciousness all over the world within the amazingly short span of ten years time, he knew that he would not be able to spread it in every town and village during his lifetime; rather, it would take generations to achieve that. That is why he was so emphatic about the effective continuity of his mission through his ISKCON. Personalities such as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura and Srila Prabhupada come to grace this world only once in a blue moon. It is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s causeless mercy that those three personalities came in such a succession. Their appearances on this planet was actually Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s divine arrangement for reviving His Sankirtana movement and fulfill His prediction that Krsna Consciousness movement would spread in every town and village on this planet. Although, being empowered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they could achieve anything and perform incredible miracles, yet, for the sake of fulfilling the ultimate purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission they emphasized the collective continuity of the movement through an institution.
It is the King who makes the Kingdom, not the Kingdom that makes the King. Prabhupada made ISKCON, not ISKCON made Prabhupada. dont try to subvert Srila Prabhupada to suit your rules of the institution. The last presciption of the doctor takes precedence over all other prescrpitions before it. the patient cannot quote the medical books to contradict the diagnosis and prescription ordered by the Doctor .
The prescription to ACT AS RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACHARYA is the premise which Prabhupada emphasized and established by writing the july 9th letter for the COLLECTIVE CONTINUITY of the ISKCON institution. HOW CAN YOU EXCLUDE, OR IGNORE THIS ALL IMPORTANT AND FINAL PRESCRIPTION GIVEN BY THE ACHARYA FOR THE COLLECTIVE CONTINUTY OF THE ISKCON INSTITUTION ? to ” ACT AS RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACHARYA” a single time in your whole presentation, why ? why has RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVE become a dirty word in ISKCON. It is not something invented by others, it was introduced by Srila Prabhupada, the Sampradaya ACHARYA.PRESCRIPTION
Srila Bhaktisidhanta Sarasvati Thakura was an extremely brilliant personality who attracted countless luminaries of his time within the fold of his Gaudiya Matha. However, soon after his disappearance when the Gaudiya Matha disintegrated, in spite of all those luminaries the propagation of Krsna Consciousness practically stopped.
Srila Prabhupada explained that, that happened because most his prominent followers could not understand the importance of continuing his mission through the institution he established. They held on to the traditional concept and concluded that a spiritual heritage could not effectively continue through an institution managed by a bunch of mundane managers, they defied the instruction of their spiritual master and appointed an acarya [who eventually fell down] the institution that he so meticulously structured collapsed.
Srila Prabhupada, in order to protect his ISKCON from such an unfortunate possibility, emphatically told us not to make the same mistake that his god-brothers made after his Guru Maharaja’s disappearance. He advised us to continue the mission under the authority of a collective management structure. Nevertheless, after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, we in ISKCON also made a similar mistake. Thinking that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 successors we also plunged in to the same syndrome of appointing spiritual heads of the institution presuming that after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance they inherited ISKCON.
Now here, why do you avoid quoting Srila prabhupada’s all important, simple and clear written instructions to the whole of ISKCON, APPOINTING, 11 SENIOR MEN TO ” ACT AS RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACHARYA along with three subsequest supporting letters, two to myself and one to Kirtananada Swami ?
In 1987, about 10 years after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, this mistake was addressed by concerned leading devotees of ISKCON, but was not fully corrected. Just by adding more gurus and allowing them to initiate wherever they could attract disciples, that mistake was only diluted to some extent but was not really corrected.
The mistake was not diluted, the mistake was compounded by adding more Gurus, the mistake was magnified exponentially.
Recently, the GBC body became painfully aware that through that mistake a parallel line of authority has been created in ISKCON which is causing a considerable amount of damage to the institution and is stifling the growth of the movement. It is very laudable of the GBC body that they have taken this issue very seriously and are working hard to rectify it.
You make it sound like the GBC’s are working hard like prisoners in a Russian GULAG. All the hard work has long ago been done by Srila Prabhupada. It was Prabhupada at the age of 70 years who came to America, Prabhupada who painstaikingly translated and wrote 60 books,it was Prabhupada who empowered thousands of hippies, freaks, acid heads, lunatics and loosers to go to all parts of the world and open and build temp[les and centers, who then consequently recruited thousands more meat headed-, drug addicts, women hunters, gamblers and goons. When the dust settlerd and Prabhupada was preparing to leave senior disciples gathered around him in Vrindaban with the all consuming important question on their mind- WHO IS GOING TO BE THE GURU, WHO, HOW ,WHERE AND WHEN CAN WE BE GURUS- that was what everyone wanted to know.In a july 9th 1977 letter Srila Prabhupada gave the answer , it was his last PRESCRIPTION , naming 11 disciples TO AS RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ACHARYA ………. HENCEFORTH,…….. WHOEVER IS NEAREST,…… not DEAREST, as it has been concocted by one HIGHER AUTHORITY. If you change, ONE LETTER THE WHOLE THING WILL BE SPOLILED……” NEAREST , was changed to DEAREST, the rest is history.
In order to effectively establish an institution we need two essential elements –
THE TWO ESCENTIAL ELEMENTS ARE DISCIPLINE and OBEDIENCE TO THE ORDER OF THE ACHARYA, SRILA PRABHUPADA. Discipline means disciple and disciple means WHO VOLUNTARLY OBEYS THE ACHARYA.
the head of the institution, and its management structure. In ISKCON we have to be
absolutely clear that Srila Prabhupada is the head of the institution and he will continue to be that as long as the institution lasts, and the management structure Srila Prabhupada established – the GBC, temple presidents, departmental heads, etc, must be fully functional without any deviation.
If we compare the institution of ISKCON to a corporate structure, then we must recognize that Srila Prabhupada is the proprietor of ISKCON, and the other leaders of this institution are the managers. The managers manage, and although they get their remunerations and incentives for that, the profit belongs to the proprietor.
Primarily everyone is a DISCIPLE first, under voluntary obedieance, and DISCIPLINE, then he is either a GBC, RITTVIK, COOK, SANKIRTAN MAN, PUJARI, MECHANIC, MANAGER , MAN , WOMAN OR ANIMAL ETC…………..I dont remember anyone getting renumerations ( as many are getting salaries now ) for their service to Prabhupada.
In ISKCON, it is important that we clearly recognize the fact that everything in ISKCON, including even all the devotees, belongs to Srila Prabhupada,
It is not enough to recognize Prabhupada, more importantly we have to OBEY PRABHUPADA. If you really believe that Prabhupada is the CREATOR, MANTAINER, AND ENJOYER of ISKCON ( Bhoktaram jajna tapasya sarva loka mahesvaram …) then what is the difficulty in accepting Prabhupada’s prescription to ACT AS RITTVIK REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACHARYA ??? Shout it from the roof tops and be proud of it……. why the persistent ignorance of Srila Prabhupada’s final instructions ? Give one good reason for this all pervading ignorance in the matter of following Srila Prabhupada’s written prescription to all of his disciples at the 11th hour of his life ?? what is the reason for this determined bull headed ignorance of the ISKCON leadership??…..,
The answer is……… ; EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A GURU, NO ONE WANTS TO SERVE THE GURU, WE WANT TO BE GURU AND LORD IT OVER WEALTH, WOMAN AND PRESTIGE. I know, because I fell into this burning pitfall of blazing fire – MAYA’S last TWO snares – I AM A GURU ! – I AM GOD !
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then only this mistake that is stifling the growth of our institution will be rectified and Krsna Consciousness movement will start to spread once again, all over the world, in leaps and bounds.
It will be easy to dismiss what I have written, I am after all the worst offender, that is admitted by me. Still as a friend I am writing you, not as a competitor but in the spirit of Prabhupada.
Your humble servant ,
Hansadutta das
My dear Hansadutta Prabhu, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glory to Srila Prabhupada; some little glory to us if we can follow him without deviation. And woe to those who are determined to thwart Srila Prabhupada’s divine intentions; better for them that they had never entered the doors of Iskcon; and most blessed are those who can come to their senses and do all in their power to get back in step with the expressed wishes of His Divine Grace, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
I have read your contribution and have noted the contents with great pleasure. That is the voice of the Hansadutta that so kindly nursed me forward towards the lotus feet of His Divine Grace.
Who could have imagined that the evolution of this this great historic movement would take this catastrophic turn? For myself, I read our books daily, do some japa (I must climb back to the level of 16 rounds), maintain the regulations, and just try to stay in-touch, fixed-up, feel connected to Srila Prabhupada. I do feel encouraged; but I understand that this can only be his kindness…….
I actually wish that there is something that I could do to help, but for the time being I am just trying to become informed of the present situation, how it has arrived at this point, and exactly what the cleaned- up situation should look like. I am convinced that waring factions can never be the solution. I will ask Srila Prabhupada what is the best way to proceed in my own tiny way. But if I am at all grateful, then I must try to participate in the healing of the Iskcon body. Endeavor and renounce the fruits to the real Doer.
As I have already written to you, I wish to connect. I will write Madhudvisa Prabhu and ask if he can be instrumental in that direction. Perhaps with your approval, that will go forward.
Gradually a plan must be chalked out and implemented. We have the internet as a great tool to be utilized to this end. It is a project that deserves and necessitates a web site of its own. As we are sincere Krishna will surely give us the intelligence how to make it a sucess. It seems that no service can claim to be more important than the resurection of our Iskcon. And as countless others agree with this goal, surely so much help will come forward along the way.
Hoping this finds you well and happy in Krishna consciousness,
Your servant,
Ishan das
Again I wish to thank you for your clear and clean letter to Bhakti Caru Swami.
Dear Nitin,
Hare Krishna.
If you read carefully, you should come to the understanding that joining Iskcon meand finding the BEST spiritual master: Srila Prabhupada.
Initiation means following the teachings of Srila Prabhupada as your heart and soul. Formalising initiation should have been by ritviks on behalf by Srila Prabhupada. This they have not been doing. Instead they have been working with concocted Guru systems, from the day Srila Prabhupada physically left his body. Please go to the Iskconirm site and read what has gone wrong with the Guru System – What Srila Prabhupada ordered and what the GBC made of it…..Do not be hasty to take initiation from unqualified/unauthorised gurus in Iskcon. Rather – simply follow Srila Prabhupada and you can’t go wrong.
Hare Krishna!
Radhey Radhey,
I really glad to see the way of providing the information regarding ISKON.I AM VERY happy to read about krishna Consciousness.It gives me a lot to think about. Iam fairly new to ISKCON, and am only just begining to learn. I am at the present moment looking for a Spiritual Master, to take Intiation from. I hope I can find one that is commetted to the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and can take me back home to Godhead.HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE HARE RAM HARE RAM RAM RAM HARE HARE.
I wonder if BCS even reads the comments.
Or he just had his say and that is it.
Somehow I keep hoping that the GBC and pseudo-guru’s have little tiny drop of decency left in them – to rectify their mistakes.
But day go by, weeks go by, months go by, years go by, lifetime goes by – but they don’t manage to get to the bottom of their selfmanufactured mess…..
As always it seems: BCS is simply playing mind games with the devotees. And what it boils down to is: “by hook or by crook remain diksa guru”! After all: the honor/distinction/adoration/false prestige and sense of propietorship that goes with it, is just too difficult to give up. Even for Srila Prabhupada. Even for Iskcon, he painstakingly founded and nurtured. Even if it means stopping anyone going to Godhead for the next 10.000 years or so….
What a display of power! Total insanity. But then: Ravana had to be insane to get slain by Lord Rama……
Dear Krsnapriya prabhu,
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO I hope all is well.
The GBC and ITS A CON gooroos DO and HAVE “managed to get to the bottom of their selfmanufactured mess”: It’s called power over AND MONEY!!! (And of course, position, name, fame, profit, adoration, distinction and gain.) So this is the bottom of it, and they have been there since day one; some of them even when Srila Prabhupada was present on the planet.
BC does a lot more (bad with devotees)than simply “play mind games with the devotees.” What’s worse than an “ordinary” serpent (snake) is one with a jewel on its head, or beautiful coloration, because one will be more attracted to that particular snake.
BC comes off as “mild-mannered,” “courteous,” “gentle,” and all those “nice” things, but he’s a snake like the others (for whatever his own reasons for deciding to be the snake that he is).
I could refer you to many devotees who know BC “as he is,” and they won’t tell he’s “nice,” but rather a two-faced dishonest.
I wonder if Bhakti Caru (or any of these ISKCON gooroos, GBCs and/or sannyasis, especially those who are supposedly sannyasis), would for even ONE DAY, give up their “ISKCON ammenities” and live like a sannyasi; spending even ONE night under a tree, with no fooding arrangements, simply depending upon Krsna’s mercy, Krsna’s arrangements.
These guys are in it for the money, position, power, name fame, control over, etc. If it was a matter of being SERVANT and NOT getting all of the above, and the requirements were that they live according to the PRESCRIBED CRITERIA for these (service) positions, I can ASSURE you, that they would NOT be accepting and serving in such regards.
Just to give one example regarding BC, which I DOUBT he would give up: He’s got one of THE RICHEST people in South Africa, who he telephones, and tells the person, “Put X – gives a specific amount at the time he calls – dollars into my bank account.” (And that’s only one of the people BC gets money from.)
So he, like the others are diverting everything (from money to properly glorification) AWAY from Srila Prabhupada and Krsna, putting it for/to themselves.
They are THIEVES and LIARS, INCLUDING Bhakti Caru. He just does things with a “smoother tongue” and “smoother manner,” but despite his “jewel, or “embellishments,” he’s just as snaky (and poisonous) as the rest of them.
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
Hare Krishna,
Bhakta Roy
PAMHO AGTSP.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta took sannyas initiation from a photo of Srila Goura Kisor Das Babaji. The only one guru who preaches four principles and sixteen rounds all around the world is Srila Prabhupada. Bhaktisiddhanta said that Krishna consciousness whitout regulative principles is worldly activity. Here Trikalajña Prabhu speculate that if he does not understand something he needs to accept another guru to explain, but that’s not the order and that is not set anywhere. What Srila Prabhupada says about is that if you do not understand something what you have to do is to chant the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra and Chaita guru Lord in the heart will give you the answer. There are many examples of this in the practical life of Srila Prabhupada. For example once Srila Prabhupada saw when Bhaktisiddhanta sent to kill a snake that was hissing, Srila Prabhupada was very concerned by this and began to read the Srimad Bhagavatam and saw the verse which says that even a holy person is happy when you kill a snake or a scorpion.
Thanks.for.your.responses.they.were.all.helpful.to.me.
The.real.point.is.THE.APPOINTMENTS.
We.all.know.that.those.11.persons.were.never.appointed.by.His.Divine.Grace.
Abhaya.Caran.Bhaktivedanta.Swami.Srila.Prabhupada.
Once.that.is.clear.and.accepted.Iskcon.could.then.get.the.help.of.thousands.of.devotees.
like.me.that.could.actually.contribute.together.to.spread.Krsna.Consciousnes.
Those.persons.must.publicly.admit.their.guilt.in.accepting.the.APPOINTMENT.TAPE.as.a.real
and.authoritative.reference.for.their.assuming.power.and.control.of.Iskcon.and.attempting.to
destroy.the.lives.of.countless.Thousands.of.devoted.disciples.of.Srila.Prabhupada..Those.who
like.myself.stood.up.for.Srila.Prabhupada’s.mission.were.asked.to.leave…These.unforgiveable
acts.can.all.be.forgiven.once.those.who.accepted.and.perpetrated.the.LIE.AND.THE.DECEIT.
PUBLICLY.ACCEPT.GUILT.and.clear.the.bad.air.
To.not.address.this.point.2+2.will.never.equal.4.
How.sad.that.such.banished.devotees.linger.here.and.there.because.of.politics.of.these.11
persons.have.agreed.to;.and.mislead.the.whole.spirit.of.Srila.Prabhupada.and.furtherance.of.
His.mission.
No.one.can.claim.innocense…But.admitting.guilt.and.stepping.down.,if.disqualified.as.
a.Guru.who.can.see.Krsna.at.every.moment.;would.start.to.bring.a.light.to.all.devotees.who
.were.banished.into.the.forest.by.the.usurpers.of.power.and.control…
Kind.of.sounds.like.the.Pandavas,Sri.Ramachandra.and.others.who.were.pushed.out.by.
cheaters.and.rascal-minded.demons
After.all.there.are.two.types.of.people.the.demons.and.the.devotees…Just.calling.a.spade.a
spade.
No.matter.what.good.intentions.may.have.crossed.their.minds.[the.11]..To.become.linked.
with.a.bogus.appointment.tape.and.to.carry.on.sitting.on.a.vyasasanas.recieving.worship.
hurts.not.only.them.but.also.the.worshiper.
If.you.can’t.even.tell.the.TRUTH.how.in.Krsna’s.name.can.you.be.a.Guru.in.the.
Brahma-Madva-Gaudiya.Sampradaya……..please
HOW.DISPICABLE!
hare krishna,
ur mails are very good
so kindly send them to me atleast three times a week
Bhakta Caru Maharaja ~ the first time I saw you I looked twice because I noticed that you had the genuine look of a first class devotee-yogi. It struck me that this was the case. And in the saffron dress of a sadhu, I could tell that you are a great soul. Jai!!!
Now my initial feelings of seeing you in that way are being confirmed. God bless you in your humble attempt to save Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON. Hare Krishna!!!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all of his assembled devotees!!!
Hare Krishna PAMHO AGTSP. It gives me a lot to think about. Iam fairly new to ISKCON, and am only just begining to learn. I am at the present moment looking for a Spiritual Master, to take Intiation from. I hope I can find one that is commetted to the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, and can take me back home to Godhead
Dear Roy prabhu,
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. PAMFO
Prabhu, please be VERY CAREFUL of the various ISKCON gurus. Although many of them appear to speak “sweetly,” and can quote from so many verses of scriptures, by din’t of consciousness, they are NOT necessarily bona fide gurus.
The ONLY thing a (REAL) guru wants to take away from a disciple is their suffering, and of course this is done by Guru’s mercy in the form of instruction; teaching the disciple how to surrender in serving Krsna’s desire.
SO MANY gurus of today are only interested in taking away the MONEY of their (so-called) disciples, and even at times, they take from their so-called disciples OTHER things, (at times, even their wives, OR, end up having sex with one or more of their disciples, including at times, a guru’s having sex with one (or more) of their disciples’ children.
So please, if you are, as you say, “looking for a Spiritual Master to take initiation from,” be VERY VERY CAREFUL!!! and do NOT “jump” into anything. Srila Prabhupada, Who is ISKCON’s Founder-Acarya told that He waited for 11 years before He took His initiation from His Guru Maharaj, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada.
I hope all is well.
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
Prabhu,
Look no more! Krsna has so kindly sent his empowered representative, A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada to deliver the fallen souls of this age…for the next 10,000 years! Yes, you CAN take shelter directly of Srila Prabhupada! You do not have to wonder and worry if a particular person is qualified or not; if he will cheat you or not; if he will fall down in the future; and if he’s 100 pure. Srila Prabhupada is a nitya siddha bhakta, an ambassador from Goloka Vrndavana, who has mercifully descended to execute the mission of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in attracting the conditioned souls back to the spiritual world. He has given us everything we need to be successful in this endeavor. All we need to do is execute his instructions.
Of course association is important. We need personal advice and example also. I would suggest seeking out good association of like-minded devotees, who are serious about their spiritual life. Can you get that at the nearest ISKCON temple? I don’t know. Unfortunately the general devotees of ISKCON are mostly bewildered by false propaganda or motivations. Maybe this website can help you find others…?
What has always amazed me about the agents of deception is their arrogance and low opinion of the intelligence of the other devotees. They think that we are all so stupid that we don’t see through their attempts to deceive. The evidence that we do see is the fact that so many people have turned their backs on the movement.
I guess they think that so many devotees served for so many years and enriched them so greatly materially that they thought they were getting over on them. No no no! Let me enlighten YOU oh arrogant one.
What those devotees and the friends of the movement were doing was showing their great love for Prabhupada and Krishna. With heavy hearts they went about their devotional service so hurt and disappointed as the GBC and their ELECTED gurus trashed their beautiful movement.
They saw, they knew and with hope in their hearts they continued to trudge along dreaming of the day when Krishna would return the movement to the true devotees.
The true devotees can see the latest deception in this piece of slight of hand by Bhakti Charu Swami. Simply looking at the title made me think this was his attempt at comedy; correcting the ISKCON guru system. When I saw the title I chuckled to myself,” Oh this is going to be good!” He didn’t disappoint.
He started out by saying, in essence, that we should look at Srila Prabhupada as really nothing more than a sweeper and a mere servant of the movement. He’s trying to get the reader to come to the conclusion that gurus are no big deal and we should get over that. We should stop this fighting about gurus because they really don’t matter. My response to that is that he should set the example and become just an ORDINARY member and pick up a broom. No more special treatment, no guru worship, no special travel, no special living conditions. Sleep on the floor in a temple and do devotional service.
The comedy really kicks in though when he states that Srila Prabhupada EMPHATICALLY ( Allow me to define emphatic: 1. Spoken or done with a special significance or importance assigned to something. 2. Characterized by forcefulness or intensity . 3. Striking;decisive), told them not to make the same mistake as the Gaudiya Matha. The Gaudiya Matha wanted to create one new acarya and that caused the downfall of the institution. So after being told EMPHATICALLY not to do that what did they do? They created ELEVEN new acaryas!!!!
I’m chuckling now but what really made me laugh out loud was when he stated that after 10 years they realized that they had made a mistake and to partially solve this they created an ADDITIONAL 50 or so acaryas. I’m rolling on the ground doubled up in laughter at this. He states this after he had previously stated that great acaryas only come along once in a blue moon. I must have missed out on all of the blue moons that came along around that time. These guys obviously don’t have any clue as to how ridiculous they are and how much of a joke they have become to the other devotees.
BCS needs to take a writing class on proper word usage. He stated that adding even more gurus only DILUTED the initial mistake. The proper word here is COMPOUNDED the mistake! The problem again is arrogance. First they INSANELY thought that they were the equal of Srila Prabhupada and also that almost anyone could be like him. They were light years away from Srila Prabhupada spiritually and to think that they could just APPOINT many more gurus is the height of arrogance and ignorance.
He finally-FINALLY!!!!- GETS AT THE HEART OF THE PROBLEM. Since Prabhupada’s disappearance the problem has been THE FIGHT FOR AND THE CONTROL OF——-M–O–N–E–Y! BCS talks talks about comparing ISKCON to a corporate structure. There it is!!! That is what the fake gurus and the other leaders have been doing for 30 years. They have been AND HAVE ACTED like corporate, material executives. They want the power to control the money! They saw the huge sums of money involved and with their greedy little hands they turned a spiritual institution in to a financial one.
Their latest ploy is their NEW CORPORATE strategy. Let’s call it the Prabhupada strategy! See they have finally come to the end of the line with their own guru strategy. Corporate profits are going down and they have lost a lot of market share with the old strategy and have milked that market dry. See devotees and money are now market share. So they look and see what the market is demanding and NOW they want to give it to them. So they said,” If Prabhupada is what they want, let’s give him to them.”
As BCS stated though Prabhupada is the proprietor of the institution and the OTHER LEADERS are the MANAGERS. He stated and I quote,” The managers manage, and although they GET THEIR REMUNERATIONS AND INCENTIVES for that, the profit belongs to the proprietor. You see, all the totally incompetent LEADERS, the ones who gave us the guru bonanza, and the gurus still want to keep THEIR REMUNERATIONS AND INCENTIVES, then they will give us Prabhupada as the head. That is THEE most important point to concentrate on in his whole comedic endeavor. In other words IF they get to keep their ill gotten gains, we can have Prabhupada as the head.
They will make him an illusory and token figure head that they will pay lip service to as long as they can keep the cash, cars, homes and free around the world travel.
You see it is time to call a spade a spade. These have not been ACCIDENTAL fall downs that people can understand and easily forgive. These are intentional and premeditated acts of deception and manipulation. Over and over and over again. We are not supposed to disparage devotees and they have taken advantage of that to keep us quiet. Any time anyone did call them on their criminal, demonic activity they yelled,” Demon Demon.” Then they had their henchmen toss them out or beat them up or find some way to make their lives a living hell and even kill them. These people are not devotees; they are corporate raiders and demons. They are the actual demons as anyone with eyes can see! They are manipulating, lieing crooks and devils. Enough is enough. Don’t let them manipulate and lie any longer. We need new leadership spiritually and spiritual minded managers.
Continuing the corporate example BCS so accurately used,considering that is how the leaders see the movement, we can see that the leaders are PRIMARILY concerned with ONLY their own material SECURITY. They want all the worldly benefits they see other corporate religious types get. They have forgotten that they were attracted to this religious movement because it was so different from the other religious institutions they now want to emulate. They want a good BENEFITS package; hence the terms REMUNERATIONS and INCENTIVES. BCS will say he only used that as an example but we can see through his deceptions. He was, in a veiled way, telling us what the leaders want. The LEADERS and managers have long ago forgotten that REMUNERATIONS in this spiritual movement are the love of Krishna, chanting the holy names,eating prasadam, association with devotees, reading the holy books and ultimately being with Krishna.
These leaders have LOST FAITH in the real remunerations from this SPIRITUAL institution and are now looking to secure bodily comfort and security. Finishing with the corporate example, when management loses market share and performs poorly, they are replaced and new leadership is brought in to refocus and return the corporation to the corporate vision of the proprietor.
That is the ONLY solution to THIS institutional problem. It is time for new,SPIRITUALLY MINDED,leadership and management!!
What you say about Iskcon is only partially true as you have only touched on one side. There are two aspects to Iskcon which are going on side by side. One side which you describe is the external, or materialistic side. This side is full of superficial members who are not serious and Krishna gives them superficial gurus (the cheaters and the cheated). Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja calls them dupes and underdupes. This side makes up the majority. They mechanically follow the temple programs, principles etc. just for show and to be accepted in the community as “good devotees”.
There is however an internal Iskcon which is for the serious student. Those who are truly serious are allowed entry into this Iskcon. Through prayer and dedication this true Iskcon is revealed. Those who are happy in the external Iskcon circus can stay there. But for those that want the real deal, that is also available. There is nothing lacking in Srila Prabhpada’s movement…the only lacking is with us.
Friend the mouse of the cheese!
This snake is the supplier of the poison in the book “Someone has poisoned me” by Nityananda Das. This plan “B” to oxygenate “The Movement” is the cure worse than the disease. After more than 30 years of tyranny against ISKCON changing books, eliminating the Archana Paddathi book, changing the day of Ekádasi, and doing all kinds of pillage; this demons have gained so much power, that have made nests of snakes of the Temples and operated by prostitutes. The Manu Samhita states that a food manage by a prostitute should be regarded as semen or pus. Who can believe that a rubber stamp of these executives of devotion will convert foxes in sheeps? Do you believe that the sky is blue, the world is pink color and elephants fly from flower to flower? NO! Put your feet on the ground! Srila Prabhupada said in a conversation with your Kirtanananda that if you don´t denunce the demons then you’re not devotee. “If you want to know how do the rice is; test a little. The center is not Krishna, but kanaka, mohini and pratista.
The Nectar of Devotion said that one should accept a resident of Vrndavan as guide. Bhaktivinoda says that as a single spark can create a large fire, a similar spark of love can create a great flood of love in the whole world. The real institution that Srila Prabhupada wants is that everyone make his house a temple to take the world.
Well, I have been getting the daily articles and as a Christian (who loves chanting Hare Krsna) I can only say this.
The Lord Jesus Christ said that just as a tree can be judged by the amount of fruit it bears, so it is with human beings. Look at the lives of these gurus and look at their actions, words and fruits. If it is rotten, then leave them and find someone else who can assist you in your spiritual advancement. In my case, I have no guru. There is no guru in our area so I have decided to make Swami Prabupadah my guru through his books. Until Krishna sends me someone who I can follow by example.
Just my 2 cents.
Love
Eugene
Srila Prabhupada: “When you read the Bible, U R following the spiritual master. How can you say ‘without a spiritual master’? As soon as U read the Bible, that means U are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means you are following the spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without the spiritual master?” (means as you read and follow Srila Prabhupada’s books,you gain him as your spiritual master)
“[Srila Bhaktisiddhanta] never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. … If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. … Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp.” Srila Prabhupada letter to Rupanuga, April 28, 1974
Around the turn of the century, the great spiritual master Srila
Bhaktivinoda Thakura made this prediction- “Soon there will appear a
personality who will preach the holy name of Hari [Lord Krsna] all
over the world.”
Prabhupada: …in 1896. Bhaktivinoda Thakura was the first origin of
this movement. But he simply thought of it. And he was expecting some
others that willing to take up the work. Well, somebody says that I am
the same man. – Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran —
March 13, 1975, Iran
Maybe if all these gurus would give up their high profile lifestyle, and stop wasting hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars of Krishna’s money each year by traveling all over the world, and simply invest that same money back into printing and distributing books, the movement would expand at a huge rate.
How much do you think the average guru spends on airfare and travel expenses per year? I’d guess that the small scale gurus spend anywhere from 25,000 to 50,000 a year on travel costs. And as for the “big-time” gurus like Jayapataka Swami, Radhanath Swami, or Indradyumna Swami, I’d say they probably spend anywhere from 150,000 to 300,000 dollars a year on travel costs.
Regardless of the exact number, ISKCON’s gurus are wasting a MASSIVE amount of money through their trivial travel each year, so if they would give up their “guru superstar” lifestyle and simply give that money back to Prabhupada and use it for printing his books, the movement would again flourish widely.
Srila Prabhupada: “If you get some money, print books.” Therefore I am stressing on this point: “Where is book? Where is book? Where is book?” So kindly help me. This is my request. Print as many books in as many languages and distribute throughout the whole world. Then Krsna consciousness movement will AUTOMATICALLY INCREASE.
I am so upset with these devotees! I have direct and personal experience that I want all to know. Sivarama swami became GBC for Turkey like 3 years ago. Then sent his right hand man gaurasakti to speak to me, Nararatna das, I have been here trying my best to serve Prabhupada for 13 years. Local devotees worked hard to translate books specially SSR on the promise that they would print. Then in the end, They refused stating that not enough money would not return from the sale of this book in Turkey so better not to print!!
Since when did Prabhupada state this “only print if we get money back”, Rubbish!
Then after I refused to surrender to Sivarama swami’s total control, they told me I am out of Iskcon and not a devotee! They opened there own place here, spent thousands of dollars on an expensive flat in a rich area, expensive furniture then closed down in 8 months and went back to Hungry!!
Where is the person who holds these actions accountable! Prabhupada made even himself accountable and wrote every rupee he spent! Who is accounting for how these devotees are spending Srila Prabhuıpada’s laxmi, how they use Prabhupada’s disciples, how they use Prabhupada’s blood!!
While they spend thousands printing their own books in the best quality (Venu Gita etc) and after 32 years still NOT ONE brick to build Prabhupada’s dream in mayapur has been laid. Who is holding these poeple accountable!! I was here in Turkey when the GBC and Iskcon’s Justice ministry hanged “Airavata das” all over the internet for allegedly misusing 5,000 dollars!! (Which he didn’t by the way, I was with him here, I know but no one cares what we say!
I fully agree with the above by Caitanya dasa, force these devotees to work in one area, no need to travel every where to compete for disciples, fame and laxmi, save that laxmi and allow us to print books and build temples in every town and village to propagate Srila Prabhupada and Radha Krsna worship 🙂 Maharisi = famous, satya sayed baba = famous, so many societies have kept their founder at the front and that is who people here about, but us? Bombay = Radhanath swami, Hungry = Sivarama swami, Mayapur = Jayapataka swami etc etc. You are calling yourselves disciples of Srila Prabhupada but I state you have failed to glourify him to the highest degree!! You have failed to keep Iskcon Srila Prabhupada conscious.
A child could ask “why did Srila Prabhupada insist on putting his Murti form in every temple to be worshiped twice in the morning by Samsara prayers and guru puja even while he was physically present? Why? Because he of course knew what unqualified conditioned souls would do once the master leaves. They would put 11 Vyasanas next to his and ask cheated souls to allow themselves to be cheated by the cheating souls. But you have been very successful in putting Prabhupada into a part of the forgotten past, into history!
There is a nice song by Bob Marly that goes “ you can cheat some people some time but you can not cheat all the people all the time, so now you see the light, stand up for your right!” Dear devotees, it is absolutely your right to have Srila Prabhupada as your eternal spiritual master if you so wish to follow him. His requirements are simple and clear to everyone, follow 4 regs, chant 16 rounds everyday and try to serve as much as you can.
“There was one doubt that was plaguing me. I had always been taught when I was first joining that the parampara is like a link, a chain. If you don’t have the perfect link, if you are not initiated- You really can not go back to the spiritual world. I presented this question to Prabhupada. I followed Srila Prabhupada from Rupa Gosvami’s Samadhi back into the courtyard, and just before Srila Prabhupada took the steps, in the courtyard, I said ‘We are distributing so many books but if people who read them are not initiated then they can not go back to home, to the spiritual world.’ And Prabhupada turned and LOOKED AT ME RIGHT IN THE EYES AND HE SAID “JUST BY READING MY BOOKS THEY ARE INITIATED”.
This and the next generation of devotees will not stand to be cheated!! Again I beg you all, all gurus, all devotees to please put Srila Prabhupada back at the front of every devotee’s mind, every devotee’s thought, every devotee’s quote, every devotee’s word then Prabhupada can use us all to perform his wonderful activities, we all just have to surrender to him and his movement’s movement and Srila Prabhupada will make this planet Vaikuntha 🙂 All glouries to His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta swami Prabhupada, founder and Acarya for Iskcon forever!
Dear Nararatna das, Please accept my humble obiesances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Firstly I want to thank you for your wonderful and forthright statements. It is such a pleasure to read the real thing.
Secondly, I have been out of touch with Iskcon since the early 1980’s. I could not believe that the 11 GBC members were taking such a position and sitting on raised platforms in Srila Prabhupada’s temples. When I made such comments at the time, there was danger of being beaten by the devotees. It was as if these devotees needed to live with those lies. How could they possably try to equate these men with such a beautified paramahansa as our Srila Prabhupada? I thought to myself, in shock, “If the devotees are equating in this way then surely they have never seen or heard Srila Prabhupada!” Then I thought to myself, “What makes these devotees join and stay in Iskcon if they do not understand who Srila Prabhupada actually is?” In any case, I eventually concluded that I cannot play along with their game, and went my own way. Noow after almost 30 years on my own, I find myself groping with search engines to try to understand the present day situation. And the more that I read on this web site the more horrific are the things that I am reading. Things have gone from bad to worse. Iskcon has been turned into a grand hoax. At first I was thinking that some of the devotees were being too harsh in their comments on this site. But the more that I read, the more terrible does the present situation appear. I still believe that name-calling will not be helpful, and that this is a family problem that must be dealt with by all parties involved. But I do understand the anger, resentment, disappointment of those who are writing in.
Thank you for your staunch stand. I had to write to someone who appeared to be sane, because I really miss the association of devotees so very much. My only association is in Srila Prabhupada’s books, and with Srila Prabhupada on his tapes videos, and in my heart.
Thanking you once again,
your servant,
Ishan das
jay prabhu pamho agtsp and all gaura bhakta vrinda i’m agreed with bcs we are doing the same mistake of the gaudya math and as srila prabhupada said this movement can be distroy just by within as happen to the gaudya math when srila bhaktissidanta sarasvati prabhupada left the planet because of unworthy devotees i know this don’t go to happen to iskcon bbt founder acarya srila prabhupada ki jay because this movement is guide by sri caitanya mahaprabhu for another 9500 year and whoever try to stop it will die as happen to that demon president of russia andropof who want destroy gauranga mission but sri krsna kill him immediately so this is the proof that this movement is guide directly by him angani yasya sakalendrya vrttimanti actually i realize by chanting hare krsna that sri gauranga is spread in the form of the time the raga bhakti through the maha mantra hare krsna to take back whatever belong to him sri krsna all the time think of us like is property in the same way i try to think of him as his property until we find out our eternal relation with him by think all the time how he think all the time this oneness with him in quality is the end of our meditation after the 3 level of samadhi 1 sahaja samadhi 2 nirvikalpa samadhi 3 savikalpa samadhi before to leave this planet srila prabhupada said i haven’t done nothing this is the proof of a paramahamsa in savikalpa samadhi people can see that everything is done there is nothing else to do because of this oneness with krsna in quality and we don’t want come back inside the material body anymore as happen to srila prabhupada several times during radha madhava song everything is property of sri krsna bhagavat surrender means to let him to use is property without false ego but if we think i’m the mahanta then everything gets spoiled your servant seva das haribol
Yes, I realize Prabhupada strongly advises that one take their initiation form the most advanced devotee. But my point still stands that anyone who is a goswami, beginning, intermediate, or advanced can make deciples; as was so kindly provided the in the NOI quote. Bottom line is that management duties and spiritual duties should be separated as outlined in varna-asrama, then balance will make it’s way in the ISKCON world. In ISKCON few people hold too much power who are not powerful enough to do it all as did Prabhupada. The check and balances of varna-asrama is being ignored an so you end up with people acting as a leading guru, brahmana, ksyatria, and vaisya. This seems to be the position of most GBC and unless they are perfect in all respects there will be many big mistakes globally and locally -as many of us may have experienced. The tendency tends to be that we try to be too transcendental for our own good. Varna-asrama seems to be a kind of crutch for the general population who are spiritually incapable. Other wise who needs mundane organization if we are all perfectly surrendered to Krishna?! (Either, beginner, intermediate, or advanced.) Either way we always have Prabhupadas guidance right? I mean he’s in his books, letter, lectures, and conversations. As is Narada Muni or others.
As for my self nothing is more powerful than having the direct guidance of a more advanced devotee, explaining the Vaisnava literature and providing a in front of me living example of how to follow Srila Prabhupada. Even reading Prabhupadas books can’t replace such direct experience for a fallen soul as my self. But that is what is really being advocated in the NOI purport being quoted, isn’t? Not something else.
Hare Krishna Trikalajna Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda.
You are reading something into the purport of NOI 5 which is absolutely not there at all. If you read it again carefully you will see that Prabhuapda is clearly advising us to be careful to accept initiation from an uttama-adhikari vaisnava. And he says one can take initiation from a madhyama or a kanistha but such a student will not be able to advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insignificant guidance, therefore one MUST accept an uttama adhikari as his spriitual master.
So if you do not want be able to advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life then go ahead, take initiation from a madhyam or kanistha devotee [again…]. But really, who comes to Krishna consciousness not wanting to be able to advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life? That is spiritual death… Therefore one must be very careful to accept an uttama adhikari as his spiritual master…
To use this NOI purport to claim that one can take initiation from a madhyam or a kanishtha and to insinuate that this is recommended by Prabhupada is the greatest cheating and the most extreme example of clutching at straws.
Prabhupada makes it very clear that if one takes initiation from a madhyam or kanista devotee he will not be able to advance very well towards the ultimate goal of life under his insignificant guidance… Therefore one must take initiation from an uttama devotee.
Your point of having a living example of someone sincerely following Srila Prabhuapda and explaining the science of Krishna consciousness to us is very well taken. And we certainly need that and have to ourselves become that for other devotees also. And this was what was going on in ISKCON in Srila Prabhuapda’s presence. His disciples were acting as his representatives and themselves following strictly and explaining the science of Krishna consciousness to others. But they were recommending that the people they meet take initiation from Srila Prabhuapda, a paramahamsa, a pure devotee of Krishna. And that is perfection. We need to direct the people we meet to a pure devotee, someone who can actually take them back home back to Godhead. Otherwise we become yet another cheating religion…
Even if we are not on the highest platform we can follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions sincerely and try to explain Krishna consciousness to others and suggest that they take initiation from Srila Prabhuapda, a pure devotee of Krishna. Then we are being honest about our position and directing the devotees who come to us to someone who can actually save them.
So many ISKCON gurus have destroyed their own lives and the lives of their disciples by trying to take the place of Srila Prabhupada in ISKCON. No one can take the place of Srila Prabhuapda in ISKCON. ISKCON is Prabhupada’s movement, it is for Prabhupada’s disciples. Anyone else who is trying to use ISKCON to make their own disciples and collect their own “guru daksina” is doomed to a very dark future. We have seen this over and over again, and we will continue to see it happening in the future also. There is a saying, “If you do the same thing you will get the same result.” ISKCON is still doing the same thing that the 11 zonal acharyas did after Prabhupada’s disappearance. So the future of the current gurus will be the same as the history of the past gurus… They are stealing Prabhuapda’s disciples and misdirecting them… This is a very inauspicious path to follow…
Anyhow, the main point is you can not justify this bogus idea that madhyams and kanisthas can become spiritual masters and take disciples back home, back to Godhead. This is Krishna consciousness 101. Krishna says “Approach a bona fide spiritual master, surrender to him, inquire submissively from him, render service to him. Such a self realized person can give you real knowledge because he has seen the truth.” So Krishna is stressing that the guru you accept must be self realized and must have seen the truth. It is like I say, very basic. If one is not self realized himself then it is not possible for him to help someone else to become self realized.
It seems really quite strange that I would have to explain these things that are so clearly explained by Srila Prabhuapda all the way throughout his books, classes, conversations and letters. These points were very clearly understood by all ISKCON devotees in Srila Prabhupada’s presence. They were also very clearly understood by all the disciples of the 11 zonal acharyas who were trying to cut the same profile as Srila Prabhuapda, but when they failed dismally the GBC decided to change the philosophy. They rejected Krishna’s philosophy from the Gita and concocted their own new philosophy saying that there is no need for the guru to be liberated… This new bogus philosophy was introduced into ISKCON in the early 90’s, on the advice of Narayana Maharaja. And this is what you are preaching Trikalajana. We need to go back to the Krishna consciousness 101. The one that Krishna reveals to us in the Bhagavad Gita. Not the current bogus concocted ISKCON guru philosophy.
If you want actually become Krishna conscious then you need a pure devotee, a purely Krishna conscious guru. There is no other way, there is no other way, there is no other way…
“One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī. A neophyte Vaiṣṇava or a Vaiṣṇava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikārī as a spiritual master.”
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
There is flimsy to no evidence that Prabhupada considered guru-tattva to be subject to institutional decisions – why did he leave the Gaudiya Math? He came to the west – not because his GBC gave permission, but because he dreamt his guru did. No other authority was necessary. The guru answers only to Krsna and his guru – otherwise the parampara, like in the Catholic Church is simply a glorified bureaucracy where gurus can be hired and fired – like a board of directors hiring/firing a CEO.
What a cheap mundane concept of spiritual authority. It explains all the Mafia-good-old-boys corruption.
nice article,but im afraid i could never trust iskcon again.the crimes its commited are horrifying and unforgiveable.
“Recently, the GBC body became painfully aware that through that mistake a parallel line of authority has been created in ISKCON which is causing a considerable amount of damage to the institution and is stifling the growth of the movement. It is very laudable of the GBC body that they have taken this issue very seriously and are working hard to rectify it.”
We, who have been watching the moves of the GBC closely would rather say: they have shamefully blundered. But it doesn’t matter. If they would only now rectify everything, it would be to their eternal credit. Else: they will all have to go to hell, for the biggest Guru aparadha ever committed.
Even Maharaja Yuddhisthira, incarnation of Dharmaraja, had to go to hell!
The laws of karma are very stringent. And even though we tend to think that “being devotee makes us immune” if our bhakti is not properly tuned in to the parampara, it is all (self) deceit.
So, please: let us all – from inside and outside of the present “Iskcon” endeavour our best to rescue the last leg of Dharma: Truthfullness, which has been severely hacked into since Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance day.
Thank you very much.
your servant,
Krishnapriya dd
My Humble Dandavats to you…Bhakti Charu Swami…I did not know you were doing all this clarification putting things were the belong the returning of the roots of Srila Prabhupad s Devotional service.
from lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu to Bhaktivinoda Thakur to Bhaktisidanta Swami
…..to Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabupada….
When the raising sun appeared in the east
The jewel of the twice born Gaurasundara…
awaking and taking his devotees with him
he went alL over country side towns and villiges.
…as bhaktivinoda wrote in his poem…
…This image is so inspiring …
WE MUST CONTRIBUTE…IT IS NOT ONLY IN THE TEMPLE S ..IT IS ON THE STREETS
….WERE THE HOLY NAME OF KRISHNA MUST VIBRATE STRONG AND CLEAR…..
…Oh lord give us service at thy lotus feet….
I hope a new strong wave of makimg devotees and temple s will expand.
and hope Iskon would unite all devotess of different gurus that were before in iskon but still follow krishna…there nust be recociliation…
work as one and look for the comon cause…Sri Bhagavan Krishna…
Thank you for your kindness
Your friend franco …Viva KRISHNA…..Viva Mexico….
All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Bhakti Charu Swami has given such nice insight. We should at least listen and research. He has said nothing that opposes Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. Thank you very much Maharaj.
Your servant
Bhakta Ramza
Hare Krishna! PAMHO agtSP!
What a surprise to read this 180 degree turn in opinion. Well better late then never. And I wonder if this is some populistic stunt, sad to say. Since in earlier times have we been fed with a quite different stand and hard hammered opinions around this delicate subject. Devotees who have expressed this opinion earlier have been forced to leave the society and now suddenly are we beholding a shift, after many many years of supression of the free speach, around this subject amongs many other hot potatos. Good luck Bhakti Caru Swami, that do I wish anyway, but to be honest dont I think any change will take place. The instituted corporation is cemented and held by a few who knows things of each other and thereby it becomes a stalemate that we have seen since late 70:ies. The show must go on.
I am very much influenced by the actual and real definition of god. your news letter really teach me actual spiritualism. I am very much thankful to madhumita das , who continuously send me mail.
Hare Krishna,
Now finally one of the ISKCON leaders are being honest and have had the courage to print this article.
Now lets not bit off his head give him a break and maybe there will be more communication. Get the Wolves to back off….
When the world looks at us sincere disciples of Srila Prabhupada we should outshine the pretenders.
Lets not stoop to their level.
Give him credit for being honest he has my respect for what he has said.
Respect is something money cannot buy.
Rukmin Priya
San Diego
CA.
Hare Krsna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Please accept my fallen obeisances.
If BCS is honest about what he’s saying, he will put Srila Prabhupada laksmi where his (BCS’s) mouth is; meaning, he will stop siphoning off whatever assets he is (not only laksmi), from Srila Prabhupada. Then one might begin to think he’s being serious.
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
Glad that this topic is being brought out into the open on this public forum.
I noticed Bhakti Caru Swami said the managers are to manage Srila Prabhupada’s Iskcon. Does this mean that all the Iskcon gurus are to be considered as ‘managers’?
Does this mean that all the money they collect from their thousands of disciples and followers around the world will now be regarded as Srila Prabhupada’s money to be used for printing his unchanged and original pre-1977 books?
There’s is so much water under the bridge, it might take lifetimes to correct what has gone on since His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada passed away.
He is still actually with us, folks, when are we going to listen to His transcendental instructions that are still in his unchanged books?
Yes, please reprint his original books; please put all this money that’s being spent on big, big temples to fill the pockets of big, big gurus, and please put that money into reprinting Srila Prabhupada’s books. Then we will see Iskcon revive once again!
Repects,
LSL
Hare Krishna dear devotees.
Please accept my respectful obeisance. All glories to Srila Prabhupada and all the vaisnava devotees of the Lord.
Good try Bhakti Caru Maharaj. Big hugs maharaj.
Many ideas, many opinions, many devotees, hurt and otherwise. Where will it all end, or when will it all end, will it ever end???
Let us try develop our individual KC to the very best of our tiny abilities and wish each other well.
I tried, I failed, I fell, now I crawl, now it’s me and Prabhupada, or correctly, Prabhupada and me.
I have no great words of wisdom on the matter, no solutions, nothing to offer, just well wishes, for what they may be worth,if anything at all. I even question if my well wishes are real and sincere.
Prabhupada, save us! We your children are fighting, falling, fooling, frying,and so many are trying the best the know or understand. I don’t think that anyone is purposely try to deceive others, and if they are, then help them please Prabhupada. We are all so much in great need of of your help and mercy at all times,and please give us the ability, intelligence and sincerity to accept your mercy and guidance. I even doubt my own sincerity in writing these words. Thank you Prabhupada for listening to this fool.
Please dear devotees forgive me for my foolishness, offenses, grossness, pride,etc etc. Let us pray for our mission and our own purification and let us not see each other as a threat. We came into the world with nothing and will go out with nothing. So what is ours? Just our relationship with guru and Krishna.
Sorry for my useless ramblings. You never know a fool till he opens his mouth.
Ananta koti vaisnava vrnda Ki Jai! Srila Prabhupada Ki Jai!
the insignificant worthless
bv kusum sraman swami.
Hare Krishna,
After 30 years of confusion and bitter fighting, some of them are beginning to voice intentions of making a change, as Bhakti Caru Swami is saying. Lets try to be optimistic and let’s hope they will actually make a real change. Its a gradual realization for them to change and come to a formal realization of what they really are, which is the helping guru, not the uttama worshipped guru. When they realize that being officiating acharya is an honorable position, and there’s still the word “acharya” in that title, and it still continues the parampara, and they are helping gurus, or teachers of bhakti, or siksa gurus, then we may be getting somewhere.
Your servant, Vishoka dasa
I for one am glad to see the ‘beginning’ of change. Nothing happens over night. Any step in the right direction is a good step and its spark should be fanned. I am thankful to see this article of hope. Simultaneously aware other issues presented in it are less than perfect, but lets give some credit when they try, otherwise it may not progress in the future.
Jay Prabhu pamho agtsp
To tell you the truth I see so many devotes were saying the bogus gurus are ok in the beginning. The devotes are still trying to understand what was going on. Now after 30 years they are more aware about the fake guru problem. I all the time meditate on a pure devote, Srila Prabhupada and i get enlightnment.
As he used to say we can find others pure devotes on this planet, but is not easy to to find one like Srila Prabhupada. That’s why by meditating on his wonderful qualities and activities we become purified. We have no doubts about that Sri Krsna Loka. If we are under the guidence of a bonafide guru it doesn’t matter where we are, if we keep our mind steady on Krsna and engage in sincere devotional service bhakti paresanubhava viraktir anyatra ca. Srila Prabhupada says if we keep going like that we lose the desire for material happiness because our bhakti make us to realise that our nature is the same as Krsna’s. We have nothing to do with the material nature which belongs to Krsna, therefore there is not difference for him between material and spiritual because everything belongs to him.
We are like fish out of water at the moment but if we follow the sanatana dharma for our whole life maybe Krsna will take us with him. Krsna is svarat, completely independent. He can take us and make us pure in one second because he is asamaurdvam, it means none is superior or equal to the parambrahman.
This is my kind of faith, Krsna is the supreme master and enjoyer and all the others are his servants gopi bartu pada kamalayor dasanudasa. You can be my guru in this life I can be you guru in the next but the most important thing is to not forget sri krsna vande Jagat Guru Srila Prabhupada. All the time remember this. That’s why Srila Prabhupada was not a man of this planet.
People who live in this planet have to realise that the moment we forget Krsna is the most dangerous moment all the problems come from this forgetfulness of Sri Krsna therefore we have just to follow sravana kirtana properly then we can get the perfection of smarana free from jnana and karma kanda, kabe habe bolo se dina amara amar aparadha guci suddha name ruci krpa bolo habe hrdaye sancar. I don’t care about this body in this life what I care is to revive the spiritual body and go back home. Dharma tu saksad bhagavat pranitam.
I can surrender to the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra in this life so i don’t care what is going to happen next. This is surrender but if i try to examine by use jnana and karma kanda the surrender gets spoiled. If we completely depend on Sri Krsna that is so nice, that’s the real freedom from misery.
The point is that when we forget Krsna the enemy inside the mind become stronger that’s why more we advance in spiritual life more we have to surrender never give chance to the mind to forget Krsna otherwise after ritvik something else come up this is going on eternally in the material world until we understand bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyante.
Jay Prabhu, until next time please accept my dandavats
daso smi Seva das
Hare Krishna! All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances. These opening words are probably the best part of our letters, and we should not drop them, or shorten them, such as “pamho” etc. Like that is a dead formality. Take these things away and what will be left?
My name is Ishan das. Srila Prabhupada personally placed brahmana thread on my neck in 1969 at a fire sacrifice at John Lenon’s estate. On a morning walk, alone with Srila Prabhupada, I asked Srila Prabhupada a question concerning our relationship with the Spititual Master. Srila Prabhupada said, “You can think of me as your Spiritual Father.”
It was a very exciting time, and there was so much to be done to prepare for Srila Prabhupada’s first visit to England. So one day Srila Prabhupada said to me, “You are doing so much for me, and I am doing nothing for you.” All I could say was “Oh Srila Prabhupada!” Since that time, in my mind I have responded to that statement again and again, wishing I had the chance to respond appropriately. Something like, “Srila Prabhupada, it is simply your mercy that you are allowing a dog like me to try to render some insignificant service. You need nothing from me, whereas what you are offering me goes beyond words.”
In those days, Mukunda, Shyamasundar and Gurudas, they were very busy in London, doing their respective services, that only they could do. And the rest of us, we were at John Lenon’s place, preparing for Srila Prabhupada’s arrival. I was in the indoor tennis court. We were preparing it to be a temple room. I was making a Vyasasan for Srila Prabhupada. It was 5 feet high with a good 5 or 6 steps for Srila Prabhupada to ascend. Fully concentrating on the task at hand, I did not notice that Srila Prabhupada had entered the hall,silently. When His Divine Grace was walking just behind where I was working, he softly said “Thankyou.”
Srila Prabhupada, of course, needeed his daily massage, to help with his health. There was no question of lying down. Srila Prabhupada would sit cross-legged on the floor. Time to massage his arm, and out came that arm in front of him, firm and like a military commander. The whole massage would go that way. One time Srila Prabhupada fell into a restful state during the massage and out flew his arms and legs to regain his balance. His divine Grace chuckled and said, “If you can put me to sleep during massage you are doing pretty good.” And finally, when it was time to massage Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet, he is sitting on the floor, and one leg is extended in front of him. There is so much authority in his posture. He is the king of kings. He sits like a mountain, grave and still, immovable. And then he raises his right hand from the floor, and points, with his forefinger, at his lotus foot. And I know, that very gesture means more than words can express.
I was not the only one to massage Srila Prabhupada. Trivikrama Swami, then a brahmacary, also had that transcendental honor. Trivikrama loved the service. He had a feeling, like that Srila Prabhupada was a baby in his hands. He knew just how to do it right. So Trivikrama said to me that it would be better if only he did the massages, so that there would be consistency in the service rendered. So the next time I massaged Srila Prabhupada, I put the issue before him. “Srila Prabhupada, Trivikram says like this. What is your desire?” Srila Prabhupada, straight to the point, said, “Any fool can do.”
There are so many stories of this nature, that I have never expressed to share with the devotees. And now, seeing this forum that Madhudvisa Prabhu has so graciously made available to us, I am taking the opportunity. Of course, by myself I am nothing. But because the activity has to do with Srila Prabhupada, I feel that it should be shared.
If it is allright with the powers that be, I will continue to write like this.
Your humble servant,
Ishan das
Dear Ishan, Please accet my most humble obeisances, all glories to Srila Prabhupada. Nice to hear you over the internet, it’s been many years since I have seen you. Thank you for your nice remembrace of Srila Prabhupada. Are you and Bhibhavati still together?
Thank you for being hospitable to me and Haimavati back in montreal at the henry street house, it was a great adventure.
I hope you and all your friends are well.
Your humble servant,
Hansadutta das
Dear HansaduttaPrabhu, Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Please forgive me for not responding to your email until now. It certainly was an unexpected and heart-warming surprise. I would very much like to connect with you in order to discuss various points in our philosophy as we find it in Srila Prabhupada’s books, as well as the various predecessors in our line of param para. I know that you were always so eager to absorb whatever vaishnave material that you could get your hands on. However, I don’t know how to reach you by email. And I think that this present forum is not the appropriate channel for this sort of communication.
If Madhudvisa Prabhu will allow it, or somehow forward it, I can be reached at . I am actually quite excited at the prospect of re-newing our connection. You were always such a radical (in the good sense) no-nonsense, straight-forward devotee. And I always admired your devil may care attitude when it came to laying it on the line. Sort of like Jesse-James-turned-devotee. Because one cannot be a devotee while trying to please everyone. Therefore in your teaching you were always parampara, without the personal nonsense creeping in. You would shoot from the hip. And as we find ourselves in this prison-house world, we are completely surrounded by rascals and fools, white-collar or otherwise. So what to gain except to put it out for those who have ears.
Anyhow, I sincerely hope that we can connect, and will be checking for some kind of reply.
Aspiring to come to the point of “your servant”, Ishan das
Hare Krishna Prabhus:
PAMHO and AGTSP.
Please do not get excited that GBC is going to turn their self self proclaimed and rubber stamped Gurus in rittviks.
BCS is praising GBC and says GBC is working hard to rectify the situation. Can’t they see that first thing they need to do is unwind their mistakes by desclaring self proclaimed and rubber stamped Gurus as rittviks. It is that simple.
Please read below my updated comment:
Dear Bhakti Charu Swami:
PAMHO, AGTSP, and Hare Krishna.
I am glad that you have expressed your thoughts to the world of devotees. I have few points for your consideration:
(1) You say we made similar mistake nevertheless. Well, Gaudiya Matha appointed one Acharya at a time but ISKCON appointed 11 Zonal Acharyas – all at once. So our mistake was 11 fold compared to Gaudiya Matha.
(2) You say this mistake was corrected partially by appointing more Gurus. Actually it was a bribe extended by the entrenched ISKCON leaders (GBCs and Gurus) to innocent followers of Srila Prabhupada that they can be Gurus in short time if they go along and get along with the corruption of the existing leaders. So mistake was compounded and not partially corrected as you state. So what is your explanation for saying that it was a correction?
(3) By now more than 50 appointed Gurus have fallen down and gone away and more than 100 Gurus have been appointed so far. So our mistake is at least 100 times worst than Gaudiya Matha.
(3) Why it took 32 years for all of you smart guys that you all have been wrong all along while:
– 95% of Srila Prabhupada’s disciple left ISKCON or were driven out by you guys
– thousands of disciples of new gurus joined ISKCON and went away disappointed by Machiavelli tactics of ISKCON leaders
– North American Temples became empty.
– BTG printing and distribution went down from 1,000,000 (ONE MILLION) a Month in 1975 to almost nothing now.
– distribution of books, harinama, and prasadam came to halt
– thousands of children were abused/molested and abusers are still welcome as saints in ISKCON while children have to go to courts.
– at least half a dozen devotees have been murdered by your gang members.
– did it ever occurs to any of you that even one of the above facts should have been enough to provide sufficient warning and wake up call to find out what you all have been doing was not only wrong but criminal.
Now, show us the meat. You have no credibility as a group. No one trusts you guys. Show us how you are going to change things as Srila Prabhupada wanted.
Agreed with your idea that HDG Srila Prabhupada be treated as the head and owner of ISKCON and local temples will be run by team of President, Secretary, Treasurer, and Temple Commander etc.
Are you saying that the first mistake was to accept imposition of 11 rittviks as zonal acaryas?
You write: “In 1987, about 10 years after Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, this mistake was addressed by concerned leading devotees of ISKCON, but was not fully corrected. Just by adding more gurus and allowing them to initiate wherever they could attract disciples, that mistake was only diluted to some extent but was not really corrected.”
What do you mean when you say “mistake was not fully corrected”, “mistake was diluted”, “but mistake was not really corrected”??? If adding more Gurus dilutes the mistake then make everyone Guru and dilute the mistake even more. Is that not reasonable? So what is your solution now? Declare every devotee as a Guru?
If having 11 acaryas is a mistake then adding more rubber stamped acaryas (Srila Prabhupada says “you can cheat but it will not be effective” in regard to rubber stamping acaryas) compounds the mistake. That is my common sense and HDG Srila Prabhupada also said so in April 1977 to TKG. But my God you are leaders who have guts to say mistake plus mistake equal diluted mistake.
You seem to say that mundane managers could run Spiritual Insrtitutions. So aren’t you all (self proclaimed and rubber stamped Mahabhagavatas) better than mundane managers? When I look at the destruction (as listed above) caused by the your gang members I am sure that mundane managers would have done lot better than what you guys have done. Mundane managers would have at least protected what they inherited and would have expanded it. But you crooks destroyed every thing and still you are praising your GBC body for recognizing first mistake after 32 years.
You write: “Recently, the GBC body became painfully aware that through that mistake a parallel line of authority has been created in ISKCON which is causing a considerable amount of damage to the institution and is stifling the growth of the movement. It is very laudable of the GBC body that they have taken this issue very seriously and are working hard to rectify it.”
But you are mum about what damage your mistakes have caused to the institution. You can use my list given above as starting point. Please wake up and open your mouth and declare your sins while you guys are breathing and before Yamadutas take hold of you. Save your soul.
The root cause has been the acceptance (imposition) of 11 rittviks as self proclaimed zonal acaryas and then adding rubber stamped acaryas. Listen the words of HDG Srila Prabhupada thousand times “you can cheat but it will not be effective” and correct your course.
However, I am very sure that the same GBC gang of Gundas, Bandits, and Crook will not obey HDG Srila Prabhupada and will come up with some new trick to deceive everyone. But such adjustments will not work.
O! Psuedo Gurus Correct your two main mistakes – declare all self proclaimed and rubber stamped Gurus as rittviks. It is that simple. Otherwise, prepare to be sent to the obnoxious region of the universe resereved for the Psuedo Gurus.
Wishing You Well,
Yhs- Gadadhar Dasa
“The idea of an organized church in an intelligible form, indeed, marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona-fide spiritual teacher.” [Excerpted from the essay ‘Putana’ by Srila Bhaktsiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura printed in the January 1932 edition of The Harmonist]
Hare Krishna, Ray: Please accept my humble greetings. Can you please refer me to a web site where I can read the harmonist article that you are quoting? I woud love to read it. Thank you so much. Sincerely, Ishan das
Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obesances to all the vaisnava saints, I am very much happy to read Bhakti charu Maharaja’s feelings regarding iskcon guru is concerned so what prabhupada left his instructions in his books, cassets and personally to all the iskcon members it means prabhupad is the only person who is always with us to take us back to godhead back to home.prabhupad is spiritual master of all the living entities those who are ready to enter the vaikunta planets.
Thank You.
Hari Bool.
how can we make sure that the authority/guru maharaj whom we are following are guiding us in the right path and not exploiting us ?
Pray sincerely to Krishna and he will reveal everything.
So this is the new revelation: “Everything belongs to Srila Prabhupada.” Well it may be a new revelation to the GBC and their rubber-stamped gurus who have been guru-bhogis since Nov 1977, but don’t lay these platitudes on the rest of the world as a solution. The problem is ISKCON is that the parampara is not being continued in accordance with guru, sadhu and sastra, and that means the GBC with their rubber-stamping concoctions is the problem. But they will never give up their bogus guru rubber-stamping because that would mean a loss of power, and that materialistic persons can never contemplate.
And isn’t it about time the GBC realised that devotional service is voluntary and that therefore they have no authority, they can only request. But we know that is not the case. The GBC policy is not voluntary service, but rather “my way or the highway” with a bullet or boot in your back.
Hare Krsna Prabhupadanuga’s and Bhakti Caru Swami,
I liked and enjoyed the article by BCS and hope the walk can be walked. Talk has been rather cheap for the last 35 years but we should still continue. This is the right direction to proceed and I think ‘changes’ will gain momentum in about 20-30 years when us “direct disciples” of HDG Srila Prabhupada have changed our bodies.
Mahasrnga dasa
Dear Prabhus,
Dandavats! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Obviously this is a hot subject matter. I think it is THE most important.
So let us address the matter with cool heads and respect to get a better faster result.
According to some Vedic Astrologers the constellations will become very auspicious after 2012.
Then real reform will be easier. I dont to dash anyone’s hopes; but don’t expect too much too soon.
We been in a mess for 32 years now and it will be a few more; but there is light at the end of the tunnel!
We ARE in the Golden Age of Lord Chaitanya and Krsna Consciousness is predicted to increase in the near future and more and more for the next 9,500 years.
So let’s do whatever we can now to help the mission grow and have faith that there are better days ahead. Patience is a virtue and good things take time and lastly, hopefully, time heals all wounds.
Have a wonderful Janmastami and especially Sri Vyasa-puja!
Your servant,
Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
=>;~)
Well prabhus,
Nice article by Bhakti Charu Swami.
Does Bhakti Charu Swami know anyone who is a pure devotee in ISKCON so as the madness can stop. Did Bhakti Charu Swami run away after Prabhupada’s disappearance and later came back. Does he know anyone past present or future that could lead ISKCON out of the dilemma that it is in. What did he ask Krsna dasa babaji that time im Mayapur, remember what you asked him…? No.
Also what about the letter from Srila Prabhupada, that Hansadutta had or still has, on who should initiate after Srila Prabhupada left. That letter was never shown, I guess it is still floating around Singapore, or maybe even in the bin. We cannot allow anyone to see that. What about Sarva Bhavana prabhu, who was in Prabhupada’s room 3 or 4 days prior to Srila Prabhupada’s leaving and the tape player was going and Srila Prabhupada said who should initiate, where is that tape.
Can Bhakti Charu Swami see anyone fit to lead the preachers in ISKCON, someone that has the qualities of Sri Guru. Does Bhakti Charu Swami know anyone that is that pure they can fix the ISKCON/RTVIK problem. It is just two camps fighting, civil war they call it don’t they.
The Gaudiya Math had two camps and they both fought, ISKCON has two camps and they are both fighting.
Fighting means Kali is in the movement.
Everyone is guru no one is guru. All conditioned souls. And fighting.
Your servant,
Krsna dasa dasa
Big deal. Bhakti Caru Swami is telling us what we ALREADY KNOW!!! and KNEW WAY!!! BACK WHEN.
BCS (maybe take out the “C”) states, “The managers manage, and although they get their remunerations and incentives for that, the profit belongs to the proprietor.”
What and how much does BCS believe that “remunerations and ‘incentives'” constitutes, (since Srila Prabhupada told “no salary,” so BCS would have to give this better difinition).
But the REAL question is this: WHY is Bhakti Caru STILL (and has for SO MANY YEARS been) INDEPENDENTLY (THROUGH ISKCON, USING HIS POSITION WITHIN ISKCON) SIPHONING OFF SO!!! MUCH!!! MONEY!!! FROM!!! SRILA PRABHUPADA’S!!! ISKCON???
Talk one side of the mouth, and do something DIFFERENT!!! It’s the HYPOCRISY that is MOST DISTURBING!!!
(Not only in relation to this which he wrote, and my point made above, I PERSONALLY KNOW of BCS’s HYPOCRISY regarding myself and other devotees. And he’s STILL “silent” about Srila Prabhupada’s being POISONED!!!) HYPOCRITE!!!
Maybe my words here are/will not (be) liked by some, but they are true.
From Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-Gita 10.4 purport: “Asammoha, freedom from doubt and delusion… Nothing should be accepted blindly; everything should be accepted with care and with caution.
“Satyam, truthfulness, means that facts should be presented as they are for the benefit of others. Facts should not be misrepresented. According to social conventions, it is said that one can speak the truth only when it is palatable to others. But that is not truthfulness. The truth should be spoken in a straight and forward way, so that others will understand actually what the facts are. If a man is a thief and if people are warned that he is a thief, that is truth. Although sometimes the truth is unpalatable, one should not refrain from speaking it. Truthfulness demands that the facts be presented as they are for the benefit of others. That is the definition of truth.”
sach bale tomare lutha jutha jagat mohaye “When one tells lies, everyone is enchanted, but when one tells the truth, s/he is beaten with sticks.”
Why doesn’t BS practice what he’s preaching?
Your servant,
Dasi, B. Radha-Govinda
Hare Krsna
Hare Krsna dear devotees, pamho agt Srila Prabhupada 🙂
Please forgive me if my writing upsets your mind but I am sure it will please you as soul.
“[Srila Bhaktisiddhanta] never recommended anyone to be acarya of the Gaudiya Math. … If Guru Maharaja could have seen someone who was qualified at that time to be acarya he would have mentioned. Because on the night before he passed away he talked of so many things, but never mentioned an acarya. Therefore we may not commit the same mistake in our ISKCON camp.” Srila Prabhupada letter to Rupanuga, April 28,
“Why did this Gaudiya Matha fail? Because they tried to become more than the guru. Bhaktisidhanta, before passing away, he gave all direction and never said that ‘This man should be the next acarya.’ But these people–just after his passing away, they began to fight: ‘Who shall be acarya?’ That is the failure. They never thought, ‘Why–Guru Maharaja gave us instruction on so many things–why did he not say that this man should be acarya?’ They wanted to create artificially somebody as acarya, and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense–that ‘If Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acarya, why did he not say? He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point?’ And they insisted upon it. They declared some unfit person to become acarya. Then another man came. And then another—‘Acarya!’ Another—‘Acarya!’ So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Maharaja. That is perfection. And as soon as he learns that Guru Maharaja is dead, ‘Now I am so advanced that I can kill my guru and I become guru.’ Then he’s finished.”
“When you read the Bible, you are following the spiritual master. How can you say ‘without a spiritual master’? As soon as U read the Bible, that means U are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ. That means you are following the spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without the spiritual master?”
Reporter: Who will succeed you when you die?
Srila Prabhupada: I will never die!
Devotees :Jaya! Haribol!
Srila Prabhupada: I will live forever from my books and you will utilise!
“You have understood the importance of my books. Without being asked, you published and distributed my books.The temples may fail, the devotees may fail, but my books will live forever.”London, September 1974).
“Srila Prabhupada lives forever by his divine instructions, and the follower lives with him.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam, Dedication, 1962)
I asked, “Prabhupada, sometimes I have problems and the spiritual master isn’t there and it’s too detailed for the scriptures. What should I do?” And he said, “If you chant Hare Krishna very nicely, all the answers will come from within.”
“There was one doubt that was plaguing me. I had always been taught when I was first joining that the parampara is like a link, a chain. If you don’t have the perfect link, if you are not initiated- You really can not go back to the spiritual world. I presented this question to Prabhupada. I followed Srila Prabhupada from Rupa Gosvami’s Samadhi back into the courtyard, and just before Srila Prabhupada took the steps, in the courtyard, I said ‘We are distributing so many books but if people who read them are not initiated then they can not go back to home, to the spiritual world.’ And Prabhupada turned and looked at me right in the eyes and he said “Just by reading my books they are initiated”.
Initiation is a formality. If you are serious, that is real initiation. My touch is simply a formality. It is your determination. That is initiation.” ~ Srila Prabhupada – morning walk, Seattle, 02/10/68
“The chanting Hare Krishna is our main business, that is real initiation. And as you are all following my instruction, in that matter, the initiator is already there.” ~ Srila Prabhupada – letter to Tamala Krsna dasa, 19 August, 1968
“So my Guru Maharaja will be very, very much pleased with you … it is not that he is dead and gone. That is not spiritual understanding … he is seeing. I never feel that I am alone.” ~Lecture, 2/3/75
“So we should give more stress on the sound vibration, either of Krsna or Spiritual Master. Never think that I am absent from you, presence by message (or hearing) is the real touch.” SP Letter to students, August 1967
“Although physically we are not together, we are not separated spiritually. So we should be concerned only with this spiritual connection.” ~S.P. letter to Gaurasundara, 11-13-69
“So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the Spiritual Master, vibration. What we have heard from the Spiritual Master, that is living.” SP lecture given on 1-16-69
“The potency of transcendental sound is never minimized because the vibrator is apparently absent.” ~ S.B. 2.9.8 P
“You have asked if it is true that the spiritual master remains in the universe until all his disciples are transferred to the spiritual sky. The answer is yes, this is the rule.” SP Letter to Jayapataka,
“I was only with my Guru Maharaja four or five times, but I have never felt any separation. I have never left his association, not even for a moment, because I am following his instructions
Prabhupada: So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That’s all.
Indian Man: Personally, we think more greater.
Prabhupäda: That’s all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books.
Indian Man: I am reading books Prabhupada. That books are your very, very good and most blessful to us. It is the biggest good will upon whole of universe at present ~Morning Walk — August 7, 1975, Toronto
In my books the philosophy of Krishna consciousness is explained fully, so if there is anything which you do not understand, then you simply have to read again and again. By reading daily the knowledge will be revealed to you….You may please me the most by reading my books and following the instructions therein. ~November 22, 1974
By reading my books and chanting Hare Krishna, your life will become perfect ~ SP Letter to: Mr. Lourenco — Tehran 14 March, 1975
A devotee recalls: Prabhupada,…you have said that even by reading one page of your books, or by reading only one verse or even one word or even by simply seeing the book, one becomes purified and his life is transformed. ~ New Hardwar (Khasadeça)
“As far as my blessing is concerned, it does not require my physical presence. If you are chanting Hare Krsna there, and following my instructions, reading my books, taking only Krsna prasadam etc., then there is no question of your not receiving the blessings of Lord Caitanya, whose mission I am humbly trying to push on.” SP Letter to Bala Krsna, 6/30/74)
I said to Srila Prabhupada, “I must have fallen in maya.” Srila Prabhupada said, “You’re always in maya, but sometimes you fall into Krishna.”
I asked, “Prabhupada, if devotees are transcendental then…” Again Prabhupada cut me off in mid-sentence. He said, “Not transcendental. trying to be transcendental.”
Bahulasva said, “Srila Prabhupada, one of the arguments is that no one has seen God.” Prabhupada stopped and said, “No fool has seen God. I am not a fool like you. I have seen God.” Prabhupada kiiiii jayaaaa!!!!
“If you get some money, print books.” Therefore I am stressing on this point: “Where is book? Where is book? Where is book?” So kindly help me. This is my request. Print as many books in as many languages and distribute throughout the whole world. Then Krsna consciousness movement will automatically increase.
One can derive from the study of the Bhägavatam all benefits that are possible to be derived from the personal presence of the Lord. It carries with it all the transcendental blessings of Lord Şri Krsna that we can expect from His personal contact. (SB 1-3-40 end of purport)
“If you hear from a professional man, that will not be effective. Hearing must be from sädhu, from devotee, from the lips of the devotee. Just like Sukadeva Goswami was speaking to Maharaja Pariksit. Even if you hear yourself, you read books, you will save your life. If you simply read Krsna book or Bhagavad-gita or Teachings of Lord Caitanya
“Anyhow, print books, distribute profusely, and that will be the best preaching work. What will your three minutes preaching do? But if they buy one book it may turn their life.” (Letter to Bhagavan 5th November 1972)
“These are not ordinary books. It is recorded chanting. Anyone who reads, he is hearing.” ~ Srila Prabhupada
Eternal bond between disciple and Spiritual Master begins from the day he hears.” S.P Letter to Jadurani, 4/9/72
Indian Lady: … is that spiritual master still guiding after death?
Srila Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like Krsna is guiding us (eternally), similarly spiritual master will guide us.”
~SP General lectures, Sept 9, 1969
Srila Prabhupada: “Only Lord Caitanya can take my place. He will take care of the movement.” (Conversation, November 2, 1977, Vrndavana, Prabhupada left his body 12 days after this quote!)
So at last a responsible leader in Iskcon standing for the truth, I am so happy.
It’s my clear and simple realization that Srila Prabhupada and his movement are non-different!! He often refers to Iskcon as his body and he sometimes also refers to others close to him as being blood suckers. Its clear that devotees who met Prabhupada as well as those who didn’t physically meet Prabhupada during his physical presence continue to make progress in their spiritual lives. Yes, Prabhupada also of course understood we need physical association to keep us going in the right direction and to get support and encouragement anytime as well as times of weakness and illusion. Thats why he worked so hard to manifest his society. Everyone knows and experiences that there is nothing higher and more liberating than having a transendental shower in Prabhupada’s books or hearing his lectures. Nothing even comes close! The only way to save Iskcon is to put the soul ( Srila Prabhupada ) of this body (Iskcon) back in the heart, then this body will once again be transcendental and move the way Srila Prabhupada wants. For years as Bhakti caru swami says our sanyasis and leaders have put themselves knowinly or unknowinly between all disciples and their rightful owner, Srila Prabhupada, they are actually eclipsing, shadowing Prabhupada, limiting him from using us the way he wants. With Srila Prabhupada rightfully back in the center, alive (not buried into the past ) and free to interact with his students and if we are all actively encouraged to seek and develop a deeper relationship with Srila Prabhupada based on his eternal vani, I have absolutely no doubt that every single devotee, man woman or child will become an impowered instrument in their loving spiritual master’s hand.
By not following Prabhupada’s instruction and desire to keep Prabhupada as the only bonafide initiating guru for all disciples in Iskcon even after his vapu form had gone, you leaders have to all accept the blame and responsibility for the disentragration of Prabhupada’s body (Iskcon). This ofcourse has simultaneous feed all groups that are against Prabhupada in some way or other, be they governments, parents, religious groups etc. But for me, the worst thing you have allowed is for Narayana Maharaj to rape Prabhupada’s body!! After inflicting so much damage to Prabhupada’s body with the constant fall down of so called initiating gurus representing Prabhupada and the terrible conduct of not so highly developed consciousness in guru positions, , you have made it very easy for someone to destroy or take over Iskcon. We can say that without the soul (prabhupada) in the body and with such a damaged body (Iskcon) Srila Prabhupada’s hands have been tied to fight the attack of Narayana swami’s bid to take over Iskcon! I plead and beg you all dear devotees, whatever position you are in, please take a stand now and help more of our Iskcon leaders see that unless they act now swiftly to put Srila Prabhupada back in his rightful position as the only acarya and dikşa guru of all past present and future disciples as he himself instructed, we have to face the fact that due to the selfish desires of our so called dikşa gurus who care more to maintain their position for fame, power or comfort than to come clean, they are allowing Narayana swami to work from the back door and steal all of Prabhupada’s disciples from his Iskcon. As Bhakti Caru swami says now in his muturity that immediately upon Srila Prabhupada leaving his vapu form, Iskcon leaders pounced on power to control Iskcon the way they wanted and made many huge mistakes followed by father damaging adjustments costing Srila Prabhupada his blood and body!! Now it is way overdue that our leaders must re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the bonafide living dikşa acarya for the next 10,000 years. We have been crying for this since they took over Prabhupada’s position. In front of Narayana swami you all have no chance but in front of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta swami, Narayana swami has absolutely no chance!! Dear leaders and senior devotees you have nothing to lose, we still need you, respect you, and look up to you and of course we will continue to serve you as best we can but please please move yourself out of the way and allow Srila Prabhupada our beloved spiritual master to use us for his direct service. If you are not part of the solution then you are automatically part of the problem. Its very simple, just step aside and let Prabhupada shine through, be his instruments not his coffin box!!
Dear Bhakti Charu Maharaj,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Reading the posting above, I am thinking back, of the dream I had of Srila Prabhupada, in which he told me not to worry about you – as he was going to watch over you.
The realizations you have can only be had by the Grace of His Divine Grace.
These are however so far, mere words: how you will act on them and how yourself and the GBC will set all the wrongs right and take ISKCON back on track remain to be seen.
Yet it is so simple: BACK TO PRABHUPADA!
He is our eternal GURU.
For all who come to ISKCON and pursue their spiritual lifes.
We, who have chosen for HIS DIVINE GRACE, should not have been ousted out of the Temples, and out of grace with the masses of ISKCON.
Personal honour or dishonour ar no issue at this stage of choosing FOR or AGAINST Srila Prabhupada. It is like in the Mahabharat Yuddha, the stalwarts like Bhisma, Dronacarya, Karna, Krpacharya failed to choose for The Absolute Truth.
The solution of rectifying ISKCON lies in the GBC recognising that their authority is absolute on managerial level, only so far it goes in carrying out the orders of His Divine Grace, and that there is no question of spiritual absolute authority – for Absolute Spiritual authority of ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada ONLY.
Will the GBC dismantle? Will ISKCON restructure as per Srila Prabhupada’s order. Is it not time finally to come clean of all the errors and misconduct and misleadings.
If GBC is sincere, if ISKCON leaders are sincere then obviously next step will be: getting back a GBC as Srila Prabhupada wanted. The world again in 12 zones. And Ritviks initiating ON BEHALF OF SRILA PRABHUPADA.
Can you and our godbrother/godsisters, who all with all good intentions perhaps, are now misleading the whole world give up This False Guru business and Let there be ONE ACHARYA OF ISKCON FOREVER: SRILA PRABHUPADA.
It is His rightful position. Can he be restored to it on this his coming Vyasa Puja?
yours in Srila Prabhupada’s eternal servant,
Krishnapriya devi dasi
Very nicely spoken, Mataji.
Dear Bhakti Charu Swami:
PAMHO, AGTSP, and Hare Krishna.
I am glad that you have expressed your thoughts to the world of devotees. I have few points for your consideration:
(1) You say we made similar mistake nevertheless. Well, Gaudiya Matha appointed one Acharya at a time but ISKCON appointed 11 Zonal Acharyas – all at once. So our mistake was 11 fold compared to Gaudiya Matha.
(2) You say this mistake was corrected partially by appointing more Gurus. Actually it was a bribe extended by the entrenched ISKCON leaders (GBCs and Gurus) to innocent followers of Srila Prabhupada that they can be Gurus in short time if they go along and get along with the corruption of the existing leaders. So mistake was compounded and not partially corrected as you state.
(3) By now more than 50 appointed Gurus have fallen down and gone away and more than 100 Gurus have been appointed so far. So our mistake is at least 100 times worst than Gaudiya Matha.
(3) Why it took 32 years for all of you smart guys that you all have been wrong all along while:
– 95% of Srila Prabhupada’s disciple left ISKCON or were driven out by you guys
– thousands of disciples of new gurus joined ISKCON and went away disappointed by Machiavelli tactics of ISKCON leaders
– North American Temples became empty.
– BTG printing and distribution went down from 1,000,000 (ONE MILLION) a Month in 1975 to almost nothing now.
– distribution of books, harinama, and prasadam came to halt
– thousands of children were abused/molested and abusers are still welcome as saints in ISKCON while children have to go to courts.
– at least half a dozen devotees have been murdered by your gang members.
– did it ever occurs to any of you that even one of the above facts should have been enough to provide sufficient warning and wake up call to find out what you all have been doing was not only wrong but criminal.
Now, show us the meat. You have no credibility as a group. No one trusts you guys. Show us how you are going to change things as Srila Prabhupada wanted.
Please note that HDG Srila Prabhupada was not the party to the mistakes of Gaudiya Matha but was the savior of the mission of his Gurudev BSS.
On the other hand, you have been the major player in Guru Appointments and ISKCON politics. You are carrying a big burden of vikarma on your head. Please come out clean 100% and be savior of ISKCON.
Wishing You Well,
Yhs- Gadadhar Dasa
My humble best wishes towards the success of ISKCON, and the GBC in particular, in view of the changes and corrections that are being carried out.Indeed it will shine brightly and globally again, and the chanting has to be spread with even more fervour and enthusiasm. Wish you godspeed. Jai Sri Krishna.
Hare Krsna, obeisances to all;
Just a few practical necessities we should probabaly address;
While Bhakti Caru’s article sounds like a step in the right direction, talk is cheap. There is also the question of addressing all the devotees’ greivances seriously.
Suggestions; Issue a call for all of Srila Prabhupada’s diciples to return, including all the “ritvik-vadis”, then totally remove the current GBCs, and re-elect all officers in the temples once Prabhupada’s disciples are prepared, and extend full voting rights to all such disciples, living in the temple or not. Elect all these temple authorities, and then they should elect an all-new GBC. The current administrators should be disallowed to be reelected until a new governing regime is settled, so that the perception will be of complete breaking with the old ways and a return to original Iskcon mood.
Remove all banned labels on account of ritvik, and apologize to us.
Extend the natural right to all initiated devotees of Srila Prabhupada to live and fully serve to their best capacities in our spiritual master’s temple societies, and no one can kick them out or restrict their thinking or preaching in any way! Establish istagostis immediately, and show submission to the collective devotee’s ideas and suggestions.
Try to provide full facilities for preachers of all kinds, including brahmacaries and vanaprasthas.
Issue membership cards, acquire life insurance programs, give daksina regularly and generously to all ashrama members, except grhastas.
Stop all salaries immediately! Other avenues of support may be arranged, as ncessary, such as daksina or grants.
Stop earning money by doing Hindu ceremonies before our deities. Stop allowing anyone other than initiated Iskcon brahmanas or other qualified brahmana Vaisnavas to cook in the temples.
Insist that every devotee go on sankirtana regularly. Reduce the deity worship if necessary to accomplish this. The yuga dharma is harinama sankirtana, not temple worship, so priorities need to be rearranged in some cases.
Remove the rubber stamp system altogether. Retain the current spiritual masters who accept ritivk role, and make arrnagments for those who do not accept this to be reestablished outside of Prabhupada’s temples. All temples and farms etc started by Srila Prabhupada should be designated as such, while those started by others should go to their hands and their disciples.
Rewrite the role of all sannyasis in Iskcon to one appropriate for the ashrama. No more sannyasi managers. All brahamanas should give classes at least occassionally, and the cult of the high-flying sannyasis and Iskcon rock stars must end now.
Stop harassing Madhu Pandita et al. Withdraw all court cases.
Stop rewriting Srila Prabhupada’s books, and extend right to print to all disiciples.
Any devotees who wish to act as gurus should have lesser rights within Iskcon, and restrictions of their activites within Prabhupadas society should be mandated. They and their disciples should either rethink their allegiances to Srila Prabhupada, or make way for Prabhupada’s disciples to manage and govern without interference from these new spiritaul masters or their disciples. They should plan to and be assisted to find their own centres as sub-branches of Iskcon. Once their seperate identity is established and Prabhupada’s temples are returned to him and his disciples, ritvik post-samadhi disciples as well as the original devotees, then full mutual cooperation between Iskcon and the branches can be maintained.
Start massive e-preaching within a now unified Iskcon body.
Increase devotee in-temple ashramas immediately, and encourage seekers to live with us for a stretch, and encourage renunciants of all ashreamas to live in and perform sankirtana activites of all sorts.
Action along these lines will be real. Just talk not followed by actual
reform will be dissappointing and not so helpful.
Thank you, prabhus. Hare Krsna and obeisances to all!
Thank you Tamohara for your views. I hope Prabhupada’s disciples who went away will be encouraged by your words.
Dear Sukhada Devi; Please mataji; What makes you think any of us “went away”? We were driven out violently by the current usurpers!! But perhaps that was not your meaning when you say “went away”. Thanks otherwise. Pamho.
hare krishna, prabhu. all glories to our ever- well wisher, his divine grace a.c. bhaktivedanta swami prabhupada. i believe your suggestions are well thought out and extremely fair considring that there are other sisyas of srila prabhupada who find their behavior quite deomonic and who are waiting for the right moment to expell them forcibly. if you want to politely ask them to leave and they do, fantastic…. in your service…..janmahara dasa haribol l
We had better bother with our own imperfections and become pure devotees of Krishna ourselves and develop the mood of Vaisnavas ourselves. Then automatically everything will be OK. We have to make sure we ourselves are chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day, that we are strictly following the four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication, and that we are reading Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day and we are strictly following all the instructions Srila Prabhupada gives us as we read his books.
Then it will be nice…
Hare Krishna, Part one
PAMHO, AGTSP,
I just read BCS article and the following comments and I appreciated most of the ideas which were shared. But as Mohan das said: Action speaks louder than words, so time will tell what will be put into practise. I agree wholeheartly with Trikalajna, that we first have to establish Varna ashrama to avoid and minimize problems among ourselves and set a role model for the society outside. And here I see a big challenge, for according to my observations, devotees are often trained to accomodate the needs of the temple where they live, or the needs of their Guru rather that the Guru, which is his duty, according to Srila Prabhupada, ascertains their nature and engages them accordingly.( Maybe he doesn’t know his own nature as well….) I am around the society only since 12 years and I don’t know how much this organisation called ISKCON is already too much a muddle, that it can be restored and brought back to Srila Prabhupada. I discussed it once with a friend and he said something which I thought was very wise, he said: As Ravana was not able to touch the real Sita and only got an illusionary one, so the demons within our movement are not able to touch ISKCON as well. So let them have their Maya ISKCON with all the paraphernalia and focus on the real one.
Another friend of mine described this Maya ISKCON as follows:
described this Maya ISKCON as follows:
Sri Sri Maha-Mega-Superastakam
All glories to the maha-mega-super-acharya system, which cleanses ISKCON temples of all unwanted godbrothers along with their repeated complaints, gripes, and envious serving mood. This maha-mega-super-acharya system is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the imprint of the GBC benediction rubber-stamp. It is the life of all sentimental knowledge, for it increases the ocean of fawning neophyte disciples and enables them to taste what they think is the nectar for which they are always anxious.
O my Lord, my gurupuja alone can render all benediction upon the living beings, thus creating millions of zealous neophyte disciples with names like, Krishna Dasa, Govinda Dasa etc. They are proof that I am invested with all Your transcendental potencies; and I am so merciful I have no hard and fast devotional rules for them to follow.
O my Lord, it is very easy for them to approach me for gurupuja and giving me dakshine, but my god brothers are so unfortunate they have no attraction for doing the same. I tell everyone to chant the holy name in a humble state of mind. After all, they are lower than straw in the street. Regarding my outrageous behavior, I explain that they should be more tolerant than a tree and devoid of my sense of false prestige. They should expect no respect for themselves but should be ready to offer all respect to me in a moment. In such a humble state of mind, they can chant my “pada” or “deva” name constantly.
O Almighty Lord, I have a strong desire to accumulate wealth, to accept service from beautiful women, to have unlimited numbers of followers, and to hear absurd praises of myself. And You are so nice You let me have all these thing by engaging in Your mixed devotional service, birth after birth.
O new bhaktin, you are my eternal servitor, yet somehow or other you have fallen into this ocean of repeated birth and death. Please let me pick you up from this ocean of birth and death and have your sweet voice on my next bhajan tape.
O my Lord, when will my wrist be decorated with a Rolex watch and when will guru dakshine for fulfilling my every whim flow constantly? When will my envious god brothers’ voices choke up while everyone else’s hairs stand on end at the recitation of my name?
O my Lord, because of my busy flight or university class schedule some disciples have never seen me for twelve seconds or more. Feeling my separation, tears are flowing from their eyes like torrents of rain and they are feeling all vacant in my absence.
O my numerous disciples, you will have no one but me as your guru, and I shall remain so, even if I handle you roughly by my outrageous behavior or make you broken-hearted by hardly taking the time to instruct you for advancing in Krishna consciousness. I am completely free to do anything and everything—regardless of what my god brothers may say—for I am a maha-mega-super-acharya, unconditionally.
So my suggestion is, that those Gurus and disciples who fit into this above described Maya ISKCON and are not willing to change, leave them with their temples, changed books, watered down philosophy and don’t waste too much time with them. When the milk ocean was churned, both the help of the demigods and demons was required. I somehow feel, that this Maya ISKCON is also part of Krsna’s plan, just to separate the wheat from the shuff.You can’t force them anyway, to give up their post, force doesn’t work, says Srila Prabhupada. When his Guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Maharaja was poisoned, Srila Prabhupada didn’t get into this, instead he was pursuing his own duties, and didn’t get sidestepped, I feel, this should be also our business.
Bhaktin Annette
harekrishna ther is tug of war between iskcon mumbai vs iskcon bangalore over the property of harekrishna hill iskcon bangalore has won in the court now the devotees are feeling why it is like this please see that these two mumbai and bangalore iskconites unite and bring back the glory of sri prabhupada harekrishna
Legitimate Representation of Srila Prabhupada
Praghosa das – Jun 22, 2009
Focus on resolving three issues
There are only 3 areas that require attention in the matter of re-aligning ISKCON with the direct instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
1.How to implement locally – Srila Prabhupada’s simple system of initiation into the process of Krishna Consciousness.
2. How to ensure that all LOCAL OFFICERS – as well as GBC Executors, accept, swear to and maintain – their OATH OF ALLEGIANCE to HDG Srila Prabhupada and his ISKCON mission.
3. How to work conjointly – with all other “local leadership” of ISKCON – as the legal and spiritual “guardians” of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust – as its “sole” Beneficiary – in order to ensure that all of Srila Prabhupada’s publications remain available to the temples and their local congregations – for their personal practice of Krishna Consciousness and as their primary means of sharing Srila Prabhupada with the conditioned souls residing in their local jurisdictions.
That is it. Do or die
“The main business of human society is to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead at all times, to become His devotees, to worship the Supreme Lord and to bow down before Him. The acharya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered. The perfect disciples of the acharya try to relieve the situation by sincerely following the instructions of the spiritual master.” (SP)
Once Srila Prabhupada’s careful arrangements ensuring the above – are fully implemented – all misrepresentation of Srila Prabhupada and our Parampara are easily identified and eliminated as any such threat to any local temple’s efforts to preach in its jurisdiction.
Issue #1 is resolved (in principle) by carefully reading the following facts as I presented them last week. This article is posted on http://www.bhaktivedantas.com entitled “Recognizing and Respecting the Spiritual Master Srila Prabhupada and His Expansion” Praghosa das – Jun 17, 2009, Realigning ISKCON with Srila Prabhupada’s directives.
Issues #2 & 3 are resolved with a careful reading of the powers and disabilities assigned all officers of ISKCON by Srila Prabhupada. These “powers and disabilities” are set down in the Directives provided by Srila Prabhupada – and the stated directions Srila Prabhupada issued from 1970 to 1977- in various GBC meetings, room conversations and letters to his leaders – that all serve to provide further illumination on the matter of practical implementation of his Directives.
All refusal to implement the self-evident DIRECTIVES of Srila Prabhupada – and all attempts to represent the purpose of anyone other than HDG as the purpose of and Supreme Authority for ISKCON – is criminal encroachment.
This “criminal encroachment” that has replaced legitimate representation of Srila Prabhupada – in all its various manifestations – should be recognized as the single issue that has always faced us within ISKCON.
WE fix that – we fix it all.
Stay focused. Keep our eye on the ball. Hit it on the sweet spot only: ISSUES #1 – 2 AND 3 ONLY.
When these are properly adjusted – all our LOCAL EFFORTS will be without any impediment whatsoever and we will have nothing to stop us – but our own laziness.
Srila Prabhupada said “There is a brahmana – on every block”!
Let us fix the above and then find em!
YS,
Praghosa
Jaya, Pragosa Prabhu. Singlepointedness in these matters is the only practical route.
ITS EASY TO SAY WHAT WE HAVE ALL KNOWN FOR 20 YEARS…OBVIOUSLY BHAKTI CARU DID NT JUST REALIZE THIS..ITS A FACT WE HAVE ALL KNOWN SINCE 1977. IF HE TRULY BELEIVES THIS,MY QUESTION IS,WHEN ARE HE AND THE OTHERS GOING STEP DOWN, RETURN SRILA PRABHUPADAS[KRISHNAS] LAXMI AND DO THE RIGHT THING? IM NOT IMPRESSED WITH THIS TALK..WHAT IS BHAKTI CARU AND THE OTHERS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT. THATS THE IMPORTANT QUESTION..WHEN WILL THEY ALL TRULY HUMBLE THEMSELVES AND ADMIT THEIR RASCOLDOM AND GET THEIR ASSES OFF OF THE VYASASANA AND PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE TO SRILA PRABHUPADA IN FRONT OF ALL OF US? UNTIL THEY DO THAT,THIS IS JUST ‘TELLING US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR’..THATS NOT GOOD ENOUGH !
Dear Sri Bhakti Charu Goswami,
Please accept my respectful obeisances
All glories to Sri Srila Prabhupada!
Please go ahead and correct the system
I feel you are absolutely right
no matter what
ISKCON belongs to Srila Prabhupada and it needs to be maintained ,
in the process if new features needs to be added
there should not be any hesitation to the guru who is eligible.
and
Any intervention by a personality which is not right fit/eligible to introduce any feature or principle in to the system will be punished immediately by Radha Goloka Nanda
there is no doubt about it
you have blessings of lord,
please go ahead and proceed
servant
svarna gowri
from
new Goloka
Hillsboro ,NC
USA
All this only reminds me of Sri Krsna’s words to Arjuna at the start of the 2nd chapter of the Bhagavad Gita:
Kuthastvam kasmalam idam
visame samupasthitham
anarya justam, asvargyam
akirti karam arjuna
The asuras have now become the “jagad gurus” or world teachers within ISKCON – but I must say this: Krsna Consciousness is not something that can be propagated through egoistic movements! It is Uncreate and is the Original form of every living being – you only need awaken to It. Without Krsna in the picture, how can you have Krsna Cosnciousness?!!! Remove yourself from the work and let Krsna do His work through you…for once practice the Teaching of the Bhagavad Gita. Wake up all ye so called diksha gurus within ISKCON – you yourself need diksha all over again – start at the beginning and imbibe the tremendous soul force enseeded in the simple Bhagavad Gita shloka above. Feel Krsna in yourself and then YOU have some hope. With or without you gurus, Krsna’s Will will be done…Ha! Ha! Ha! In vain do you think that without you, Krsna cannot reach the poor ignorant masses – He can produce thousands of such gurus in a wink! Be grateful that He has not raised His discus against your 100 mistakes as He did against Sishupal! Repent and seek His mercy once again before its too late and your own desire consumes you like the fire at the end of the pralaya…Jai Sri Krsna!!! Jai for disciples like Arjuna who flowered for Krsna and not themselves…
So BCS,you should set the example and be the first to give up your false postion of diksha guru which your friend Tamal Krishna created.Action speaks louder than words.
You are an Indian and you should have been ashamed a long time ago to steal so much money and disciples from Prabhupaad.
Wake up before material nature takes you away nastily like Tamal Krishna!
Jai Sri Krishna,
Your recent email “the biggest stumbling block is accepting the wrong guru”.
We should have one Guru and that is Sri KRISHAN, Once you accept Him as your Guru, then surrender your self to KRISHNA, HE will take care of you.
Have TOO MUCH Faith in KRISHNA.
Vinod, If I am to have faith in Krsna as you suggest, should I not also accept what He says? It is true that Krsna says in Srimad Bhagavat Gita to surrender to Him. Then He also gives the method of how to surrender and that is through a self realized person, a Guru. There is an old saying that goes like this: “Pray to Krsna and Krsna will send you to Guru and Guru will take you to Krsna”. I do not know if you mean to cut out the person who will take you to Krsna, but Krsna says that is how to come to Him. Yes, pray to Krsna by all means and never stop and He will help you understand His message in this life or another. Learn what the qualities of a self realized person are then find that person. I wish you the best, Hare Krsna, Raghu Dasa
This is not a complex issue. It is actually quite clear.
There are two things here which should be understood:
One is the institutional (material side) the other is the
pure devotee and disciple side (spiritual side). The institution
does not deliver the disciple, it is the pure devotee spiritual
master who delivers the disciple. The institution is to attract
people to come to a place where they have a good chance to come in contact
with a pure devotee and thus surrender. Through surrender to such
a pure devotee, one gets the chance to serve him and thus carefully tread the
path back to Krishna. The institution is only the vehicle for this to happen.
The institution is necessary and the regular gurus are also necessary for the upkeep of this vehicle and to spread Mahaprabhu’s message, but these regular
kanishta and madhyama gurus should know their position, be honest and should also be searching for the guidance of a pure devotee, uttama guru themselves…otherwise they are simply cheating themselves and their disciples.
Dear Gaurahari, your post is just to the point and brilliant.
But I just would like to humbly ask you not underestimate
the madhyama position. In other words, if you would name
one madhyama guru in ISCKON, I would be most happy to
surrender unto his lotus feet.
To Chaitanya das: I was with a bhakta Corey 4 yrs ago, you seem to have my email since I got your leaving ISKCON message.
PAMHO
AGTSP
If one reads the Nectar of Instruction, Srila Prabhupada explaines how any devotee can give initiation no matter what level he is on, neophyte, intermidiate, or advanced. Who gives diksha is therefore not an important issue. I know pleny of Prabhupada disciples who struggle in their spiritual life; taking initiation from a perfect devotee doesn’t guarantee anything. The important struggle is how to give up sense gratification. For if we don’t, we are comitting the 10th, 3rd, and 7th offences to the holy name. And for the sincere soul who is following, diksha is already there. Sukadeva Goswami is said to of given initiation to Maharaja Priksit by Srila Prabhupada in his purports. But there is no mention of an official fire sacrifice or giving of beads and name or anything we do in ISKCON. The fire sacrifice is simply a formality, the potency is in the following of the spiritual masters order to give up sense gratification for service to Krishna. This debate is a big distraction engineered by maya to distract us, waste our energy and emotions so we become frustrated by all sorts of seemingly philisophical contradictions and give up the real work of yoga.
As I already mentioned in a previous post, I think that problems and distractions like this could be avoided if we would follow Srila Prabhupada’s instructions on varna-asrama. For starters, the sanyasis and all men over 50 should voluntarily stepdown from positions of direct managment and into strictly preaching and\or advising positions. This is a very practical and authoritative suggestion, for all obvious reasons. Srila Prabhupada speaks very candidly on this point in his Light of the Bhagavata.
Prabhu,
PAMHO. AGTSP. It’s been seen over and over again, unfortunately, that devotees (myself included) do not study Srila Prabhupada’s books enough. Whether it be because of being too much busy with family responsibilities or managerial responsibilities, somehow we just do not find (or take) the time. Therefore we sometimes tend to take part of a statement to support our particular viewpoint without really researching in depth to find the truth.
Actually the statement in Nectar of Instruction is this:
One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikari. A neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => NoI 5
So, while I appreciate your point that following the instructions of the spiritual master and “giving up sense gratification for service to Krsna” is important, and I also understand that Srila Prabhupada also has said that “Just by reading my books, they are initiated” as Nararatna Prabhu has said,still, he has given a lot of stress to accepting the PROPER PERSON as guru. That is the point that so many devotees have been making and that is the point that the GBC has obscured for so many years.
Again, from Nectar of Devotion: When a person realizes himself to be an eternal servitor of Krsna, he loses interest in everything but Krsna’s service. Always thinking of Krsna, devising means by which to spread the holy name of Krsna, he understands that his only business is in spreading the Krsna consciousness movement all over the world. Such a person is to be recognized as an uttama-adhikari, and his association should be immediately accepted according to the six processes (dadati pratigrhnati, etc.). Indeed, the advanced uttama-adhikari Vaisnava devotee should be accepted as a spiritual master. Everything one possesses should be offered to him, for it is enjoined that one should deliver whatever he has to the spiritual master.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => NoI 5
Srila Prabhupada is our deliverer, our ONLY shelter. His other disciples should only be assisting him in fulfilling his guru-maharaja’s instructions in any humble way they can (and in the way that Srila Prabhupada wanted). That’s it…nothing more, nothing less!
I too, appreciated Bhakti Caru’s statements, although, as others have said, it may be “too little, too late.” Will it have any effect? That remains to be seen. Perhaps some of the more humble “second and third-tier gurus” would be willing to support him, but does he have the strength to stand up to the rest of them, who have their lifestyles threatened?. I doubt it. At least though, it’s marshalling more and more of the devotees to express their years-long dissatisfaction and disgust. MAYBE, just maybe some of the rest of the Big Boys will hear the crying of the masses…sometime in the future…
Oops! The quotes are both from Nectar of Instruction, not Nectar of Devotion. Thanks.
The point in the quote in NOI text5 is easily misunderstood.The disciples the 2nd and 3rd class Vaisnavas have are only shiksa disciples not Diksa disciples.Its simple to understand the difference between the Uttama-Adhikari and the other two classes of Vaisnavas.The 2nd and 3rd class are unable to give the process of Diksa due to their insufficient guidance and therefore their knowledge is limited and they are both still under the sway of material energy.One who is still imprisoned in the material world is unable to free another.If you are a prisoner you cant release another prisoner,the same goes for the 2nd and 3rd class Vaisnavas,they cant free the disciple from material bondage so they cant give the process of Diksa that frees you from the material world.The disciples in this purport are only shiksa disciples the only guru who posesses the qualification to free you is the Uttama-Adhikari.
Hare Krishna
As Srila Prabhupada gas said that the movement will go on for 10000 years so it will happen
All GBC and the Sanyasi will realise this as Krishna is in everyones heart, it will only happen as to what spiritual master has said, no need to worry, it may look today why this is happening and why not this is happening
Well it is our purification and test whether we are following the instructions of Srila Prabhupada
Chant hare krishna and be happy
Thank you very much for asking Me my humble opinion on this article. Its very well presented. One cannot under estimate Srila Prabhupada in any way. He is a Nitya Sidha an eternally liberated soul and an intimate associate of Lord Sri Krsna of whom all energies exist. Krsna is within each of us and everything else and we and everything else exist within Krsna. What is needed is Self Realized individuals (Sadhana sidha) in leadership positions. Read Chapter 6 of Bhagavad Gita and apply the restraint of the mind and senses in a Krsna conscious endeavor to apply oneself personally being completely honest with themselves and Lord Sri Chaitanya who is none other than Krsna and is the source of Bhraman and Paramatma in service and meditation. I focus My mind on the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra in a very meditative mood and its very effective as this is the highest mantra. Its a personal thing and no one should ever intimidate or restrain such a person who endeavors this way. We all know what its like when some one is on a false platform, its really bogus and even ridiculously funny really. Self realization is available and being in the Human form of life is our duty realy and the human form is very capable of being self realised. This is the bottom line. Krsna Consciousness. It really due to another process that all of the sudden one is struggling, dosn’t really fit in. The material institutions don’t want self realized beings it dosn’t work for their selfish hellish profits of all kinds. I hope that this may serve well in future decisions. This is my experience and I hope I have related it well, for I am very fallen and mostly unqualified. I know very soon all things will be made right by Lord Sri Krsna’ desire.
Does this mean that Bhakti Charu Swami and others will cease functioning as diksa gurus? Will they realize that all disciples belong to Srila Prabhupada and not to them?
It seems that that’s what Bhakti Caru Maharaja is getting at here, prabhu.
regardless of what lay ahead the Bhagava Gita is timeless, its wisdom is far ahead of any other, good food, good philosophy, and good association, all add up to HARI KRSNA HARI KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARI HARI HARI RAMA HARI RAMA RAMA RAMA HARI HARI HARI KRSNA HARI KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARI HARI HARI RAMA HARI RAMA RAMA RAMA HARI HARI HARI KRSNA HARI KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARI HARI HARI RAMA HARI RAMA RAMA RAMA HARI HARI
I’m trying to figure out who does your public relations. Amazing work dudes! Nicely orchestrated to say the least. Just sweep the dirty laundry under the rug. Nobody will notice.
In 1996 Srila Prabhupada appeared to me in a lucid dream with a beaming blissful smile telling me with his own mouth that I did the right thing considering my initiation by Tamal Krishna Goswami, ritvikly performed on his behalf. He indicated for me to speak more about my journey and realization and results of choosing this course. He also indicated to me that I should record what I say and these videos are a result of my execution of Srila Prabhupada’s personal instruction to me. I spent 5 years in the early eighties within the walls of iskcon, from the first day I got his book in 1980 and in two minutes I went down to the temple and surender my life to his mission.
Here are some links to the latest videos I made about making Srila Prabhupada my life and soul and eternal Guru without any one else in between. I humbly present these ideas which i believe reconcile many ideas that have lead us away from the idea of just following the instructions of Srila Prabhupada to give diksha on his behalf. I lovingly present these ideas wholy inspired by my relationship with Srila Prabhupada before the assembled vaishnavas as a contribution to help us all reconcile this core issue. Just as the Christians always hold Jesus as their corner stone with no one else in the way that continues to give so many enthusiasm to build churches all over the world to worship God like wise we also need to hold Srila Prabhupada as the true cornerstone to build the iskcon temple on. The reason we should do this outside of all other considerions and arguments against this is simple because both these unique and proven all powerful personalities Jesus and Srila Prabhupada were inspired by God(Krishna)to say so. Jesus spoke it into eternal law and Srila Prabhupa in the hearing of Gauridas pandita das and others both spoke it and to make sure we understood clearly wrote how he wanted ISKCON to continue in sighned document on July 9th, 1977.
Hare Krishna your servant,
Gaurahari das
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=43461EBB846627E2
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B6778C4E8514EBD5
I have also come to these conclusions as well. It’s pretty obvious- When Srila Prabhupada was the center of ISKCON before 1977 and the 11 “pure acharyas” stole the movement from him, so many new people were joining ISKCON. Now, no one is joining ISKCON, especially in America. Return the focus to Prabhupada, and return the focus to Srila Prabhupada being the sole diksa guru in ISKCON, and ISKCON will flourish again. These iskcon gurus have literally destroyed Prabhupada’s movement. I have documented all of this on my own site,
http://www.harekrishnadiary.blogspot.com
By the way, Trikalajna, if u are the same one that was with one Bhakta Corey about 4 years ago, please send me your email address, I would like to get in touch with you.
Dear Bhakti Caru Swami,
Please accept my respectful obeisances.
All glories to our jagat guru, Srila Prabhupada!
You are a Godsend! Thank you so much for having the courage and concern to bring this touchy subject up in public. I read your writing with great attention and pleasure. I remember when we last talked years ago in Srila Prabhupada’s garden in LA; you said Srila Prabhupada is the ‘delivering guru.’ You were ahead of the curve then, and you are leading the way to healing and regrowth now. Thank you!
I have been trying to communicate with the GBC for 32 years about this issue to no avail. But when Devotees like you speak, they will listen.
The times they are a changing! Reform is possible. A few weeks ago a put a video on Youtube about what I heard Srila Prabhupada say he wanted regarding initiations after his physical departure. I am getting alot of possitive and hopeful replies that it may help remedy our current faulty system. It is faulty because it is not what Srila Prabhupada said to do. That should be the focus; not what Gaura Kesava or other so-called panditas think we should do, but we should do exactly what His Divine Grace said to do.
Srila Prabhupada made a zonal ritvik acharya system. After he left the planet they took out the ritvik and made themselves ‘zonal acharyas.’ There has been some reform, out of necesity, as you mentioned, but not enough. It needs to be in line with Srila Prabhupada.
If we adopt the ritvik initiation system, as ordered by His Divine Grace, does that make the devotees displeased with their initiators? It shouldn’t! The love and trust will surface and survive. Your devotees will still love you and be inspired by you and rightly so. I joined with Visnujana Swami and Tamal Krsna Maharaja; I love especially Visnujana and he never took the position of guru. He directed everyone to Srila Prabhupada. We are authorized to be siksa gurus but not diksa gurus within the walls of ISKCON.
If someone wants to claim his or her own disciples they should do so in their own temples; not Srila Prabhupada’s. That’s why Srila Prabhupada set up that system way before he left, so we could cooperate in this greatest movement on earth. To me it is quite simple; we need to research the actual history, find out what Srila Prabhupada said and did. Talk about it and get the GBC to talk about it them reform back to his instructions.
Again I thank you for your honesty and courage. This is the best Vyasapuja offering we can do! And don’t worry, we will all love you even more.
Your servant and old time friend,
Gauridasa Pandita Dasa
Gauridas@AOL.com
ps: if you want to see my video I can send a link or you can search Youtube
I feel optimistic more than ever, thank you so much for communicating and cooperating
This GBC revelation seems to be correct and in my opinion, a very good step forward in the right direction.
Everything belongs to Krishna, furthermore, everyone in ISKCON must accept this point to be a member, at least philosophically. Thus it’s a little worrisome to learn that it took a good 20 years for our GBC and leadership to realize it, being how this concept is the foundation of our movement.
I think that being in managment can cause this type of illution and one who is managing men,money and property needs guidance from a superior who is unattached, as much as a king needs the guidence of brahmanas. According to the varna-asrama system the service of managment is a grhastha position not a sannyas position. I feel, therefore, that if the position of GBC was held by our grhastas and supervised by our sannyasis then many more mistakes that are difficult to accept would be corrected in a much more timely way. It is important to remember it was an emergency situation when Prabhupada was on this planet and that the day to day changes he allowed were enacted under an emergency situation. Therefore, he made many concessions considering time, place and circumstance. Yet, in his books he did no such thing, thus we consider his books to be gengeral law books for the next 10,000 years. ISKCON wants to establish varna-asram, so let us start with our self and provide some example for the world to follow.
Yhs
Trikalajna das
Please accept my humble obeisances, All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Glad to see that current management in ISKCON is actively insuring its service to Srila Prahupada will be a progressively functioning and stablized “living force”, not just some routine business arrangement.
The reality in this Spiritual service is a tremendous task and proper teamwork is essential and may even be controversial to modern business management techniques. Regardless, the most “needful” should be a practical foundation in routine affairs, but in times of crisis or even attacks on Srila Prabhupada’s “extended” body, strategy may greatly change.
So,in future selections of leadership a humble suggestion; “Quality, not quantity”.
Current well trained leaders and beginning juniors should keep mentorship on an interactive level as far as general activities, in more extreme situations the Seniors will of course make final decisions and those decisions would certainly need to be cohesive to Guru and Sastra, along with “time, place and circumstance”. When this does happen, do at least keep your subordinates in the “loop”, this will encourage maturity and their enthusiam.
Now, most of these business guidelines are standard, although ISKCON has even higher standards, so in practicality, we should be setting the examples of “absolute” management, and that would be to continue in spreading Lord Caitanya’s movement with all the intregrity of our founding Guru’s.
Knowing this,it will never be “just business as usual”….more like “Service so sublime, it just gets better throught out all the time”.
thank your for your valuable time,
ccd
HARE KRISHNA
I really feel very glad to know that here,people in iskcon don’t accept everythings blindly.they are very vigillant unlike people in other so called spiritual institution where people are following wrong gurus blindly
If we really want to fulfill the purpose of SRILA PRABHUPADA ,then we need to try our best to reach his message as far as we can by trying to inspire more and more people about the GODHEAD,and telling them the holy purpose of ISKCON
At last i wish to my very dear LORD SRI KRISHNA to help us out in our purpose,so that we can help out more and more people reach BACK TO THE GODHEAD……..
HARE KRISHNA
“Acceptance of 11 devotees as gurus was mistake”.
“This mistake was addressed and deluted to some extent by adding more gurus”.
These two statements sounds contradictory, or at least it does not make sense to me. Can anyone help me?
Hare Krishna Prabhu
Originally in 1977 ISKCON proclaimed that Prabhuapda had appointed 11 successors. But he did not. And everyone accepts this was a mistake now, even ISKCON. But tp “correct” to this mistake the GBC simply appointed 100 gurus on the same principle as the initial 11. So this is the same mistake on a bigger scale. They have not solved the problem, just made it worse. Of those 100 gurus maybe 60 have fallen down now and the GBC simply keep adding more gurus and the gurus keep falling down and devastating the lives of their disciples.
Madhudvisa dasa