Gurukrpa speaks on ISKCON History
Gurukripa dasa speaks with Bhakta dasa:
Question to Gurukripa: What happened the final months of Srila Prabhupada’s appearance in connection with the process of initiating new devotees?
Answer: Nothing happened. In the beginning Srila Prabhupada did the disksa, the yajna and the name giving. As the numbers increased, he authorized GBC, and senior sanyassis to pick names and chant on the beads, etc. In 1977 during the months of May, June, July 1977 I was in Vrindaban with Srila Prabhupada, giving him his massage in his bed between 1 AM and mangala aratik. During the day, many letters would arrive. Satsvarupa Swami was the secretary and we decided that only letters that would give joy to Srila Prabhupada would be read. Like numbers of books sold, etc. A maximum of five letters daily were read to Srila Prabhupada.
After some weeks like this, there were stacks and stacks of letters, all relating to initiation.
Hundreds of people were panicking that Srila Prabhupada would leave the planet before they were given initiation. At this time, this situation was brought before Srila Prabhupada in his room by Satsvarupa, Tamal, myself, and maybe some others.
Hundreds of people were panicking that Srila Prabhupada would leave the planet before they were given initiation. At this time, this situation was brought before Srila Prabhupada in his room by Satsvarupa, Tamal, myself, and maybe some others.
Up until this time it was a very simple matter that we were doing the initiations, but we first had to ask permission. Srila Prabhupada NEVER refused any recommendation from his senior men. And personally, I would sometimes argue with some GBC that they were giving it too easily. At this meeting, Srila Prabhupada basically said, “From here on, if you feel they are ready, then you may give the initiation on my behalf.” I understood this for what it was, simply extending the authority a little further than it had been. Tamal Krsna Swami, began to say, “But who will do it?. Which devotees will do this?” Srila Prabhupada said, “The nearest one will do it. Whoever is closest.” Tamal said, “Can Bhavananda do? Can Jayapataka do?” Thus these eleven names came out.
Question: Why were you not on the list of eleven?
Answer: Because it did not matter. Srila Prabhupada said whoever was closest. I was already doing and Srila Prabhupada never told me or anyone else not on the list to stop. For myself, it was not very relevant because I was working in Japan and did not have any new devotees to initiate.
Tamal Krsna Swami, made these list of names himself and Srila Prabhupada signed the letter. But they were only priests to act on behalf of Srila Prabhupada. Tamal asked about Bhavananda who was not a Temple President or a GBC at that time. And everyone new well of his homosexual tendencies. But, Tamal pushed his name, because he was already planning how to take over when Srila Prabhupada was gone.
Question: How did Tamal Krsna Swami become so influential at this time?
Gurukrpa: Tamal’s original service was as GBC in India. He left that service without permission and arrived in America. Within one year the temple presidents made a huge complaint to Srila Prabhupada that he was disrupting the temples by taking important men. I was in the room when Srila Prabhupada told Tamal to go to China. Hari Sauri’s memory of this incident is not accurate. Either way that is another story.
Tamal went to New York to prepare to go to China. And in May 1976, he showed up in a suit in Honolulu, a broken man. He could not get a visa to China, he had no service to do in India, and he could not go back to America, so he was quite depressed. Approximately a day or two later, Srila Prabhupada called for Tamal and me at about 12:30 AM. He said, “My feet are swelling, my teeth are getting loose, I am passing urine too frequently. These are the first signs that death is coming.” Then he sent us back to bed. The next day TKG volunteered to be Srila Prabhupada’s secretary, as the service was vacant at that time. From this position he could control and manipulate the environment around Srila Prabhupada. I can write many more stories that will shock people about TKG’s ambitious nature and his desire to take Srila Prabhupada’s seat..
After Srila Prabhupada left, in November 1977, I stayed in Vrindaban till Gour Purnima 1978 and there was no discussion of guru during these three or four months, because Srila Prabhupada’s last instruction, or as the ritvics call it, “The final order”, was that “Now we have build a framework. There is no need to try and expand more. If we can just maintain our men and increase the chanting and hearing that is sufficient. We should sit down now and chant and hear.”
There was NO TALK about initiations that I heard either in Vrindaban or in Mumbai during these months. If Srila Prabhupada has appointed these eleven as spiritual masters, why did they not start initiating at once? Because they all knew very well they were never appointed! We knew the philosophy what is tattva darshi and what is saksad hari… but behind closed doors there was a plot simmering. In the GBC meeting of 1978 the initiation issue was brought up and it appeared they had already concluded that they were going to go ahead and say that they were appointed. I asked Harikesh sitting next to me, ‘how are you going to let people call you a paramahansa? You are not a realized soul, you are a piece of shit. He turned to me with a smirk on his face, and said “What are you going to do about it?” That is basically what happened, none of us could do anything after that.
In 1978, Janmastami, TKG came to Vrindavan to give Sannyasa diskha to Bhagavan. I was the GBC at the time in Vrindavan. TKG called from Delhi and demanded flower garlands and a large reception greeting at the temple with vyasasana’s for them to sit on. I told them this is Prabhupada’s temple and everybody can sit on the floor. When they came I gave them no such reception, and the next morning in Bhagavatwam, Bhagavan brought his politics into the class. I went and told him, if you ever do this again, bringing politics into Bhagavatam class you will never speak again in any temple I manage. That day, Bhavananda, TKG,and Bhagavan asked me to meet them in the guest house for a meeting. When I came, they said, why are you making waves? Just stop making trouble about this appointment of gurus and we’ll make you the 12th guru at the next Mayapur meeting. I told them, Prabhupada did not make anyone guru’s, you have to be a realized soul. They said there was some talk about you in Japan doing some things, therefore Prabhupada did not name you. I told them you are now believing your own lies. They were silent. Bhavananda tried to speak. I told him to shut his mouth because he was a homosex and he had never done service and had been living off the money I collected and sent to Mayapur for construction.
Question: So how did everyone become guru’s, if Prabhupada did not make them gurus?
Gurukrpa: Had Srila Prabhupada seen one of us as being capable, he would have named that person or persons, but he did not mention that anyone was fit. His Divine Grace B.V. Puri Maharaja, who Srila Prabhupada said “is the only godbrother who is not envious of me”, ask Srila Prabhupada “Please stay another 8 or 10 years with these boys.” Srila Prabhupada’s answer was, “They are all hard headed, I have done all that I can do.”
Prabhupada said, “I can stay 100 years” many times, but he left after 81 plus a few months.
In the GBC meeting of 1978, they shouted me down and they had already decided the fix was in. This was how the future of ISKCON was going to go.
Question: Is the GBC absolute since they are named as the ultimate managing authority?
Gurukrpa: Prabhupada said the GBC would be the ultimate managing authority. But that does not mean they are perfect, and they have perfect vision. The process of the GBC meetings during the years, we would have the meeting and report the days minutes of the meeting nightly to Prabhupada. Usually it would take 5 days. Prabhupada said if you people were competent, you people would be done in 30 minutes. In 1977, Prabhupada told us, just have your meetings and after 5 days give me all your resolutions.
After 5 days of meetings, the GBC filed in his room, sat down and read the resolutions; and one after another. Srila Prabhupada said, ‘No I do not want that, no that is not what I wanted’. He vetoed almost all the resolutions. So to say the GBC is the ultimate authority is correct, but that does mean that it is absolute. As you can see by how many guru’s have fallen down, and how many GBC’s have had difficulties.
After 5 days of meetings, the GBC filed in his room, sat down and read the resolutions; and one after another. Srila Prabhupada said, ‘No I do not want that, no that is not what I wanted’. He vetoed almost all the resolutions. So to say the GBC is the ultimate authority is correct, but that does mean that it is absolute. As you can see by how many guru’s have fallen down, and how many GBC’s have had difficulties.
Guru means one who has no other interest but to realize the absolute truth, Krishna. The guru, must have first realized the Name is non-different than Krishna. When I first joined the movement, we spent 9 to 10 hours a day chanting in the street. These present GBC’s do not spend that in a year. Hari nama eva kevalam, in this age only the Holy Name, only the Holy Name. Your bureaucracy and your management is not the process. The elitism being shown by the GBCs putting themselves up on a platform, above all their god brothers is absolute arrogance and the greatest sin of pride, the opposite of the humble blade of grass. Krishna is the one giving all directions for those who can hear him.
Must of us are now hitting 60 or more, we’ve made successful businesses, won some, lost some, raised our families, and personally I have gone to 25 straight Kartiks in Vrindavan. We have been excluded from Srila Prabhupada’s movement, it started in the GBC meeting of 1978. Still today, the people who have appointed themselves for life have had very little result. Ravindra Svarupa, the GBC of Hawaii, has come once in 6 years, and he will not give up the position. Kavicandra in Japan has done nothing there in 25 years. Even one of these GBC guru’s does not wear neck beads, tilak, sikah, or have any faith in the name is still a member in good standing. In the west, most of the temples have more deities than devotees. Most of the devotees are being paid, pujari’s being paid, cooks being paid temple presidents are being paid, and they have to bring Indian devotees just to keep the bare minimum going.
I have witnessed over all these years how the elitist mentality of the GBC’s and guru’s have excluded all their godbrothers. They have put themselves on a high pedestal. They have no taste for staying in the holy dhama’s of Mayapur and Vrindavna, and they run back to their comfort zones soon as they finish the meetings.
In 1977, during the rainy season, all the GBC’s showed up in Vrindavan.. Srila Prabhupada said, we should go in a room and make out his will for him. I.e., who would manage what properties and so forth… Kirtananda and everyone was there, and they were going on saying someone will do this, and someone will do that… I noticed how they totally left me out. So I just went to the Yamuna and took my bath and came back to find them still dividing everything up. When they were finished, it was brought into Srila Prabhupada room and read to him as he laid on his bed. After they finished reading the will, the first question Srila Prabhupada asked was, ‘Where is Gurukrpa’s name’? I had already opened a dozen temples and collected the most money in ISKCON history, up to that point, and they totally left me out. But SP noticed it right away. So now, although I am the first executor in his will, and he told me to develop Hawaii and other places, (you made read the will), they also have totally neglected that order. Giriraj even came and asked me if I would resign from the will. I told him, ‘How can I give up the order of the guru’? It is not as easy for me as you people.
There is no new blood in this organization, things have become stagnated and dry, not dynamic and the offense of neglecting all their godbrothers by excluding them from their spiritual birthright, they will have to answer to Srila Prabhupada for this apparadha.
Question: What is your idea of how the guru – disciple relationship should now be handled in ISKCON?
Love can not be institutionalized. I feel in love with Srila Prabhupada the second I saw him. That is why I could surrender to the depth that I did, to get the insurmountable service I did at that time. Once in Mayapur, Kirtananda came to me, and said “Why are you giving all that money to Prabhupada. You should give it to me, in America we are protected. The communist one day will come and take these buildings away.. Prabhupada is making a big mistake.” I was shocked by what I just heard. At that time, Kirtananda was considered by Satsvarupa to be the greatest of the great, and the most divine of the divine. My answer was, I do not care what he does with the money. He can flush it down the toilet, for all I care, I just love to give it to him. Its a matter of the heart. According to one’s state of the heart, if one has many material desires, he may say he loves Bhagavan Sai Baba, the Pope, Charles Manson. Its according to one’s sukriti. Krishna is sitting in one’s heart, He knows exactly what our intentions are. Before anyone has a right to ask a question, you must first enter the class. The price is surrender. Those who have not fully surrendered can not understand those who have surrendered. Those who have surrendered can understand about everyone.
Srila Prabhupada initiated thousands, he told me once in his room in Vrindavan, he said “My guru ordered me to go to the west, and I did that. My main service was to translate these books and I did that. I have a personal desire to build these temples in India. That is my personal program. But they (his disciples) will not give me money and my head is getting hot. I have to translate these books, write many letters, and I am thinking how to raise the money to build these temples because my disciples have their own programs and will not give me money.” So, seeing Srila Prabhupada like this, I told him that from today forth, you just translate the books peacefully, and I will take the headache and go and get the money. When I walked out of the room, I could not believe what I just said. So to think all the GBC are 100% surrendered souls, and the gurus are 100% surrendered souls with no self interest, and their only interest is to serve Srila Prabhupada’s mission, they did not even care during his time(Srila Prabhupada time). Srila Prabhupada said he would be happy, if he could get one moon. To get one disciple who would be perfect, out of many thousands. How rare is a personality of Srila Prabhupada character.
The GBC’s duty is to see that Srila Prabhupada’s standard is being maintained. That standard is based on chanting and hearing, also becoming a lover of Krishna. If Srila Prabhupada said I bless you, I give you a benediction, it will manifest. He has the right, the adhikari to do that. If someone else says I am your guru, I am giving you diskha, can he give you Krishna? Can he give you the holy name? Can he take you to Vaikanthua? Have you been there, has the guru been there? Srila Prabhupada told me in the car in New Zealand, he turned to me in the car, and said, while you were building Krishna Balarama temple in Vrindavan. Krishna was building you a house in Goloka. I have seen it, it is very nice. That is why you can only surrender to the depths, to one who is from that place, and who can you give you that place, who wants that place, otherwise it is just a big show. Whistles and bells with no substance.
My view of seeing this organization, it is cronyism. Most of the leaders, their hearts are still, steel framed, they are self interested. They are not self-less. They have stopped somewhere on this road back to Godhead; they are satisfied with their easy lifestyle, food, respect, honor, traveling all at the expense of the community and the younger devotees who go on the street. Its a long way from chant, dance and be happy.
Question: Then how did it come about that immediately after?
Srila Prabhupada was not present physically, these eleven became worship able as paramahamsas of the highest order?
Gurukrpa: Because it is the cheaters and the cheated. People are basically sudras who want a master tell them what to do. They do not have sufficient intelligence, or spiritual knowledge,therefore they accepted; and the more realized devotees left , after trying to correct things. They were told to leave because they were disturbing the faith of the new disciples.
Because they could not take it any more any more they left. Now it has become like the Pol Pot regime, “accept our way, or die.” Devotees never die, KRSNA is always in their hearts. They are the losers for losing the association of their brothers and sisters. The senior men can do something, other wise the new men cannot do without the association of the older devotees. Most of the older devotees now also do not have the missionary spirit. Srila Prabhupada said, as a group we can’t be broken, but alone we are all easily broken..
The leaders have never cared for the God Brothers/sisters. They are happy when the see their brother get victimized by Maya, and never come to try and rescue them. Do you think SP is happy to see the present leader’s disciples at his temples and not his own disciples???? They talk of love of God, but they do not care one bit for their own family members, unless the family agrees to accept everything they say. They have no peers around them that may object to anything.
I AM A VERY FALLEN SOUL. I AM NOT BASICALLY A FAULTFINDER, WHICH IS WHY I DID NOT SPEAK UP FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS. SO MANY PEOPLE ASK ME TO WRITE A BOOK, BUT I HAVE NOT. I HAVE LIVED VERY NICELY BY SRILA PRABHUPADA’S GRACE. I WILL BE VERY HAPPY TO SEE THE GBC ACTUALLY BECOME REAL GBC AND GENUINE LOVING COMPASSIONATE VAISNAVAS.
That is the end of this session. If anyone has questions, comments, they can send them and Gurukrpa can answer.
OM TAT SAT PARAM VIJAYATE SRI KRSNA SAMKIRTANAM….
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Do u have Guru Krpa`s email as I need a couple of photos of Lord Nrshima deity worshiped from the 70’s in Japan and India?
No. I do not have it.
I totally support Sriman Gurukripa Dasa, it is the one of a few bona-fide devotee.
He spoke the truth, and every sane person should seriously consider that Isckon today is a fake institution only to accumulate money for the leaders.
I PERSONALLY NEVER LEFT ISCKON RATHER THAN THAT I LEFT THOSE WHO HAVE DESTROID IT.
Dear Prabhu,
I have one basic question. Hope you can answer. If the Guru is not physically present, the a disciple can become Guru, this is vaishnava etiquette. Why this question was not asked to Prabhu? What is Prabhu’s opinion on this etiquette.
Guru has to be qualified. Guru is a pure devotee of Krishna. If the disciple becomes a pure devotee of Krishna he is a guru. If not and he poses as a guru then he is a cheating rascal.
So the point is the qualification of the disciple. If he has the actual qualifications, if he is really a pure devotee of Krishna, and has all the qualities of a bona fide guru, he is a guru, otherwise he is a cheater.
And real bona fide guru is very rare. And real guru has symptoms. Real actual Vaisnava acarya will rise like the sun for every non-envious person to see. Just like everyone knows Srila Prabhupada is bona fide pure devotee of Krishna and we can see the power and potency of Srila Prabhupada’s preaching and his books. So that is bona fide guru.
Guru is one, the personality may be different, but guru speaks the same message. Guru is the manifestation of Krishna in the material world. He is transparent via-medium to Krishna. So actual real bona fide guru simply speaks for Krishna. So he is a direct connect to Krishna. So all bona fide gurus are connections to the same Krishna.
So you can see how Srila Prabhupada rose like the sun as a bona fide pure devotee Vaisnava acarya. So other bona fide Vaisnava acarya will also rise like the sun, become self-effulgent like Srila Prabhupada.
So Prabhupada is the standard of bona fide guru. Other bona fide guru will be the same as Srila Prabhupada. His personality will be different but he will be a transparent via-medium to the same Krishna…
Otherwise if he is not a pure devotee, if he is not actually transcendental to the three modes of material nature, and he is pretending to be a guru, if he is engaged in this ‘guru business’ then he is the greatest demon and as you will read in Sri Isopanisad Krishna has kept the worst hellish planet for these bogus gurus.
Because bogus gurus exploit spiritual seekers and mislead them for their own personal gain in the form of fame, profit, adoration and distinction which are subtle expressions of the sex desire and which ultimately degrade into mundane sex life. So all these bogus gurus in the end are chasing after sex or after opening some mundane materialistic hospitals, schools, etc…
So we have Prabhupada, read bona fide guru, and real guru is very, very rare. So please read Srila Prabhupada’s books and chant Hare Krishna and don’t be mislead by all the bogus gurus currently flooding the world.
In Kali yuga you can presume every guru is bogus unless there is actual proof that he is a pure devotee of Krishna, like the proof we have that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is a pure devotee of Krishna.
Thanks for finally sharing this after 30 years. Actually you would not of been a fault finder for sticking up for the truth and the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada. Some devotees may have listened and saved them a lot of heart ache. Krishna das kaviraja stuck up for minikatan rama das who chastised a Brahman for disrespecting Nityananda. Nityananda came in dream and awarded him vrndavan for sticking up for his true devotee. So many devotees don’t undertand these subtle truths and are bambosled by others telling them to shut their mouth about telling the truth because its offensive. Its the oposite actually. Anyway I met you in mayapur and you shared what you did for Srila Prabhupada. So much sincere service! Hare Krishna
After reading above article, a strange feeling arises in the heart. After 50 years, we who were hardly present during all these happenings feel as if we have nothing to do with all this… I feel extremely comfortable in my situation chanting 16 rounds and reading 1-2 hrs SP’s books…
But sometimes I wonder why all this happened. Even the devotees in those times could have just done what we are doing now???
Or is it that I am not understanding the seriousness of this movement. Prabhu , am I rightly situated?? Except for book distribution, is there something else I should be doing for SP.
After reading this article, I dont know why i am feeling that though I am following SP’s instructions, I am not doing enough. Or something is missing???
Is there something which Srila Prabhupada wanted me to do but I am not doing? Except for surrender I really am not understanding why I am feeling guilty of not doing something for Srila Prabhupada after reading this article?
What is just happening???
Please remove my bewilderment..
Hare Krishna Carolyne
It is very good to feel we are not doing enough service. Krishna consciousness is about constant engagement in service 24 hours a day. So we all need to improve a great deal. So please keep reading Srila Prabhupada’s books. They are full of very important instructions to us. So as you are reading them and you hear Srila Prabhupada instruct you, follow his instructions. Then your devotional service and Krishna consciousness will naturally increase more and more.
These things we talk about like chanting 16 rounds, following the four regulative principles and reading Srila Prabhupada’s books 1-2 hours a day, it is just the minimum. We need to increase our service much more than this.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Yes, I just wish to expand like Krishna into many, many forms, just to distribute Srila Prabhupada’s books…. Book distribution for me is the only solace in life and it seems to me the only pathway to increase my love for Srila Prabhupada.
Am I right?
Hare Krishna Carolyne
Yes. You are correct, really the only way to please Srila Prabhupada is to take the distribution of his transcendental books seriously. If we are to advance in Krishna consciousness we have to get the blessings of the spiritual master. That means we have to attract the attention of the spiritual master, otherwise how will we get his blessings? So the best way to attract the attention of Srila Prabhupada is to distribute his books in unlimited quantities to the fallen conditioned souls. And of course Srila Prabhupada likes it very much if we read his books… That is very important, and of course we have to chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly follow the four regulative principles (no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication). These are all essential points: Chanting at least 16 rounds every day, strictly following the four regulative principles, reading Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day and distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books to the fallen conditioned souls. So if we seriously want to become Krishna conscious we have to do all these things very seriously.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
You are doing a 100% good job in presenting Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as it is. And your website hasn’t the slightest tinge of anything outside Srila Prabhupada. Just like SP correctly chose what to give us and what not to, on this website you correctly chose what to do and what not to. There couldn’t be a better site than this.
Of course I was fortunate, that I was not present during Srila Prabhupada’s time, lest I should have considered Him to be an ordinary person like all those ISKCON members who went mad after SP’s departure. Yet now I can see myself how I am again going on the wrong path by considering you to be an ordinary person.
“To all dear members on krishna.org ” , I would like to request you, that though Madhudvisa Dasa is easily available to all of us, please do not take this association too lightly….Do not do the same mistake of considering him to be one among us. As such it is always best to not ask unnecessary questions all the time which may bring the seriousness to a very low level. In fact Madhudvisa Dasa has written thousands of comments. Please read them and take the “INSTRUCTIONS” hidden in those comments seriously because they are VERY, VERY IMPORTANT though we may not realise it now.(Like when he tells us to chant 16 rounds and read Srila Prabhupada’s books 1-2 hours a day, we ACTUALLY have to very seriously take these instructions which is actually what SP always stressed upon). They may be those teachings of Srila Prabhupada, which he might have mentioned in his letters, lectures and conversations which we are too lethargic to read.
And to Madhudvisa Dasa Prabhu, all I can say is that you do have SP’s unlimited blessings upon you. Though I am a very big neophyte and no necessity to give you instructions or wishes, with all humility, I request you to keep serving Srila Prabhupada with all humility and I pray to Srila Prabhupada that he may always shower his blessings upon you for making his original teachings single-handedly available to the whole world…
All glories to your service!!!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada, our eternal and most beloved Spiritual Master!!!
Dear Gurukripa Prabhu,
Let’s begin afresh. Rekindle the real spirit of SP. Start the ‘Real ISKCON.’ You lead, and we will follow. It’s never too late and don’t worry that you do not have the resources, the temples, and so on. You may or many not get much traction in your life time, but there certainly is scope for it to grow and become the real tree, the bigger tree in years to come — for the truth is on your side, all the devotees are on your side! Besides, you need to do it because the so-called main branch is clearly dying!
Came to Chicago and Dallas and Oklahoma Farm in1979 July and with in 18 months. Could see and left 6 months later. Grew up on dead end road on family farm. Would not give farm to them. Thank you. – I feel feel Your S.M. through you.
Dear Gurukrpa prahbu Please accept my humble obeisances. I remember you from Hawaii in 1975. I feel you have given me more mercy during that short period than I will ever fully understand. Maya is certainly very strong. After all, it’s Krishnas energy. But Srila Prabhupada has shown me that the Holy Name is more powerful. I have always thought of you and Yasodananda and your powerful dancing and singing. I know you’ve made an impact in my devotional service. Your ever well wisher Yasodalala das.
please relay to my old friend gurukrpa das ~TK~
and show him this~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGacqaZf2eQ&index=53&list=PLCF6D83782F8C45F8 ~TK~
Hare Krishna Prabhus! Gurukrpa lives here in Bangkok and I talk with him pretty much every day. He does not use computers, email, internet. If you have any pertinent questions to ask him, please send them to me at bhakta@saintly.com, and I will ask him and relay his answers to you.
Jaya Sri Krishna!
Your servant,
Bhakta dasa (ACBSP)
bhakta@saintly.com or bh.dasa@Gmail.com
Skype : bhakta_dasa Twitter : bhaktadasa
AFTER HAVING THE GREAT BLESSING OF SRILA PRABHUPADA,BEING, TO DISTRIBUTE HIS BOOKS FOR MANY YEARS,AND COLLECT LAKMI FOR HIS PROGRAMMES.THE SAD THING FOR ME IS THAT NOW THE PEOPLE ON THE STREETS WHO ARE SO DEVOID OF SPIRITUAL DIRECTION HAVE NO WHERE TO GO AND BE TRAINED AS I WAS.DISTROYING THE MISSION AS IT IS BEING DONE LEAVES THE POOR SOULS WITH NOTHING.TO LEAVE THEM WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE TRAINED IN THE BHAKTA PROGRAMME AND HARI NAM IS SO SAD.
THAT TO ME IS THE GREATEST PAIN ,IGNORANCE OF THE TRUTH.
But sometimes it is worse to send them to a bogus training program and to later witness them become adulators of non-realized so-called gurus, and they then become puffed up doing politics on behalf of their ‘guru’ and think that the karma they are doing is Pure Bhakti Seva!…. And they generally know nothing about the life and sublime personality of Srila Prabhupada… They only know how to collect money and new ignorant followers! So maybe better to just try and become more pure and interact with whomever Krsna sends into our lives and speak with them about Krsna’s upadesh and glorify Srila Prabhupada and thus purify ourselves… And thus remain a pure tiny little corner of the true mission of Srila Prabhupada ”s heart. We can take heart in the fact that our connection with HDG is’ janme janme prabhu sei’ – continues life after life. We may not save the world as SP did, big is not important but pure and true is..
Haribol,
Srila Prabhupada left His Gaudiya Math, which was set up by His Spiritual Master. I was reading, I think it was in the writings of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati, that we must all be like Martin Luther and re-establish the sanatan dharma, according to the time and place. The organization that was established by Srila Prabhupada is ” International Society for KRISHNA Consciousness “. I remember I was in the Denver Temple when there was a GBC meeting. And, of course, they were all arguing with each other. They went to see Srila Prabhupada; and, He told them to take a break and read KRISHNA book, aloud. The devotees did this for about an hour; and, then Srila Prabhupada adjourned the meeting. The lesson I got from this was KRISHNA is not only our Goal but the means of our purification, in order to make correct spiritual decisions. I, also, remember a time when one of His books was coming to Him from the printer for final editing; and, He said ” How many times was KRISHNA’s name mentioned in that purport. Then, He said – ” The more times KRISHNA’s name is mentioned, the more potent it is. The debate over who is the guru is endless and pointless. Whoever gives us KRISHNA or helps us in our developing our KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS is the real GURU.
bhaktijan das
GURU KRIPA PRABHU, thank you for all of your service to Srila Prabhupada. Especially the courage and faith in out Spiritual Master. I Was in Vrndavan in the final days, I NEVER new this going on. I would just talk to Upendra about about Prabhupada’s health and get updates as he gave them. Thankyou for clarity and hope you will share more. I was personally given my name, beads, as well as Gyatry from Prabhupada in person. PLease keep me informed your godbrother and friend.
Does anyone have contact details for HG Gurukripa das? I am an old friend and cannot seem to locate him. Any help would be eternally appreciated! Ratnabahu das ACBSP Sydney, Australia +61433275674
After reading this interview and the comments, I don’t know quite what to think of the current situation of Iskcon leadership and the
GBC. I know for certain that Prabhupada would be most happy if we do not leave his ISKCON that he built with every ounce of his will. His mission needs all the wonderful devotees around the world to work to rebuild what he left us. If we can find ways we can work together at our local temples we are showing great love for Prabhupada’s legacy. Prabhupada’s ISKCON can still be healed and it can only be healed from within, the GBC is not all in all, it is those humble sincere devotees who can make the difference. By the power of the devotees, ISKCON will reform. We do not have to turn our backs on the good that is in ISKCON. God protect me from some of your so-called followers, but we do not have to leave Prabhupada’s ISKCON family altogether.
We know ISKCON is rotton “At the core”. The dweebs that took control are correctly identified here by Srila Guru Krpa prabhu as “pieces of shit”, who knew that they were exactly that yet set themselves up “As good as God” for profit and adulation.
GBC ~ Gangsters, Bullies and Criminals. Each with at least one exotic country as a ‘partial zone’ so that they can have a cool ‘free vacation’, or operating headquarters.
When you begin an equation with false information, there can never manifest the desired true result. ISKCON has been a cult since 1978 as proved here by Guru Krpa. The more we speak the truth about IS_CON, the sooner the demons can be revealed.
I would like any stories about negative dealings with any IS_CON leaders ~ at any time in the past. I want to build a profile around each of these men from the stories of those that suffered under them. Guru Krpa is no saint, he threw Shyamarani (Jadurani) to the floor ~ an offense that he has to deal with, but he is honest about his qualifications to be a guru and dearly loved Srila Prabhupada. Send stories to: jury.colin@gmail.com
Like a Blackhead ~ each of these men need pressure put on them for past indiscretions until they pop. Not qualified to accept disciples in the first place, they should be removed from any such illusions.
Hare Krishna Awesome!
I post this on my facebook page.
Thank You.
hare krsna.
All glories to srila prabhupada ji
i am really hurt by what i hav read about present day ISKCON,and GBC,never expected these things.I became Iskcon devotee by reading sp’s books esp “BG-as it is “.but these facts u just meniotned are horrifying.
i just want 2 ask u a question ” is there any use guru naam given by present day gurus at ISKCON ?”
should young krshna devotees like me be regularly in contact with these people..is that right coz i want 2 b a pure devotee lik SP used 2 say”
hope you wud reply and correct me if i am wrong…
||hare krsna hare krsna krsna krsna hare hare
hare raam hare raam raam raam hare hare ||
Hare Krishna Prabhu
You have the right idea. We should aspire to become pure devotees of Krishna. That is what Srila Prabhuapda instructs us to do and that is the only way out of the cycle of birth and death, samsara, in the material world.
Today’s ISKCON guru system is crazy. Srila Prabhuapda clearly says all the way through his books, letters and lectures that one must accept a pure devotee as his guru. And Krishna clearly establishes this point in the Bhagavad Gita in many places. And even common sense tells us that if we want to become liberated from the material world then the only way we can become liberated is by finding someone who is already liberated and learning from him. That is what Krishna suggests we do in Bhagavad Gita 4.34.
However, todays ISKCON, after so many years of presenting bogus gurus who have been painfully not liberated and completely unable to guide their disciples back home back to Godhead, have changed the philosophy. Now ISKCON preach that you do not have to accept a liberated soul as your guru. They say as long as you accept someone approved by the ISKCON GBC, even if his is not following the regulative principles and chanting his rounds, that is OK… But if you do not accept a GBC approved guru then you may be suspected as a follower of Srila Prabhupada and be driven out of ISKCON…
Still, having said all this, this philosophy of the GBC is so ridiculous and most ISKCON devotees know this and they are simply serving Srila Prabhuapda in ISKCON.
So if you take advantage of ISKCON and if you know that Srila Prabhuapada is living and that Srila Prabhuapda is quite capable of guiding you and if you know that most of the ISKCON gurus are bogus then you are in a better position.
There is still great spiritual benefit in ISKCON. The new devotees are attracted by Srila Prabhuapda. They are Prabhupada’s disciples. They join because Srila Prabhuapda preaches to them through his books. And the new bhaktas in ISKCON are worshipping Srila Prabhuadpa with great enthusiasm. Everything goes off the rails when they take initiation from a bogus ISKCON guru. But many are waking up and not taking such a bogus guru, but simply taking shelter of Srila Prabhupada’s lotus feet. And some ISKCON gurus also are starting to admit that they are simply connecting their disciples to Srila Prabhuapda and that Srila Prabhupada is actually the principal guru for their disciples.
So if you go into ISKCON knowing that you want to become a pure devotee of Krishna, and knowing that this is only possible by accepting a pure devotee as your spiritual master, and knowing that Srila Prabhupada is living and available, and just serve Srila Prabhupada then it will be Ok….
It is something of a difficult time. But we are so fortunate to have the association of Srila Prabhuapda. Please take advantage of this and read all of Srila Prabhupada’s books. You can purchase them at http://www.KrishnaStore.com and read them online at http://www.PrabhupadaBooks.com
Also you can watch over 60 hours of Prabhuapda films and videos:
http://krishnastore.com/prabhupada-dvd-set-h-krishna-403.html
So there is no point in becoming depressed. Take shelter of Srila Prabhuapda, read his books, listen to his classes, watch his DVDs and chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna Prabhu,
I began visiting ISKCON centers since 2004 when my ex roommates enthused me to read and listen to Srila Prabhupada’s (original)books and lectures. I was in a state of joy just by reading the Bhagavad Gita As It Is . I was thus fully convinced that I have met a truly bonafide well wisher in Srila Prabhupada and was willing to go the extent of surrendering to him. I steadily improved in my interest and commitment even while I was working full time as a software engineer. There was a time when I was chanting 16 rounds early in the morning , reading prabhupads books , listening to lectures on the way to work and back, cooking for my picture deities twice a day and only taking their prasadm while living with non-devotee roommates. During this period I believe I received help from Prabhupada(many times in dreams which would always help me overcome whatever situation).
However my sadhana has completely deteriorated now even though I follow all the prohibitive principles, I’m chanting only on Ekadashis and Festivals . I am hoping I can rediscover the good times when I felt there was a bond between me and prabhupada and chant 16 good rounds everyday. I wonder if my attempts to unravel if the ritvik initiations are to be followed led to any offenses towards senior devotees currently serving ISCKON for which I am suffering reactions. I presented the question about the July 9th letter to a senior sanyasi guru\GBC from whom I’m being asked to take initiation but did not receive a meaningful reply. I was told that there are so many other letters that prabhupad wrote. That answer did not convince me and Im still not initiated.
Is my individual endeavor to ascertain if the ritvik initiation is the correct approach cause for offense against either Prabhupada or the current Gurus?
How can I be sure that Prabhupad is not offended by me not approaching a current guru and refrain from seeking initiation, cause I can see so many full time and part time devotees going about their sadhana with joy even after being initiated by a current guru?
There are other issues which could have led to my current situation but I am of the opinion that the two questions presented above must be answered first(Highest Priority) before I can regain my sadhana practice.
Please take some time to help me out. I value any help that is offered.
Hare Krishna.
Dear Prabhu,
All glories to You.
All glories to the dust of your lotus feet.
Jai Srila Prabhupada.
I am very happy to hear your message of a truth that will be victorious in the coming years because the truth is always victorious. Salutations to you, you have proved your worth as Srila Prabhupada’s most loyal servant.
To glorify you brings joy to my heart. Jai Jai to you.
ram
Dear Gurukrpa Prabhu,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada. We have never met but I have heard many stories of you from some of your Japanese party of the 70’s. Firstly, I would like to say thank you for putting the record straight about what happened in 1977. Really if you analyse ISKCON it was an American Way of doing religious business. There were tax benefits etc. Those early boys with smarts came to Srila Prabhupada and set up ISKCON and he signed the papers.
When Srila Prabhupada was ready to leave there was an amazing global religious business prospering. What to do? In the family world they would sell all the assets and divide the spoils between the family members.
In ISKCON it was get on the GBC and takeover the power, glory and guru rights. It was American business as usual. The basic rules of business applied. Those who understood that took over the power. Simple as that.
Nothing to do with their spiritual qualities, just their straight business brains. So today ISKCON is like any other religious business with a story, a belief system and a heirachy.
What you experienced was personal LOVE of Srila Prabhupada! What you lived for was personal Love of Srila Prabhupada. What I would say you will depart this earth for is personal Love of Srila Prabhupada.That is your perfection. That is your journey.
To me that’s what I am left with after reading your story. That is what I have experienced when I speak to devotees. Who personally loves Srila Prabhupada? You do and I love you for that. That is all that matters. The Loving Consciousness of pure personal Bhakti.
We all had to leave ISKCON, there was no love to sustain us, only in our heart and in Srila prabhupada’s books and a few devotees scattered all over the world spreading bhakti moment by moment as best they could. Always what shone through was the personal loving mood towards Srila Prabhupada.
In 2005 when my beautiful devoted wife Ulupi was preparing to leave her body, Srila Prabhupada arranged for his personal Vrindavan bedsheet to be placed under my wife and a beautiful garland worn by Srila Prabhupada which had been preserved was placed around her neck. How do these things happen? Krsna’s Mercy!
This is how we know all is well. Krsna knows who is who.
Thank you for your story and please pass my warmest regards to Bhakta Das, last saw him in Fresno in 1982.
Hare Krsna
Kaunteya Das
Dear Prabhus, please accept my humble obeisances, I became a devotee in 1977 and went through a lot of traumatic ( as well as ecstatic , at times ) experiences.About 7 years ago I threw in my lot with ISKCON and only occaisonally visit the temple in London , and have had no association with devotees for that time.I now live in Wales with my partner who is favourable but not a practising devotee. I would love to correspond with devotees who can empathise with my situation.
Your servant, Bhakta Rupa das
Hare Krishna Bhakta Rupa Prabhu.
You are not alone. About ten thousand devotees joined ISKCON and took initiation from Srila Prabhupada prior to 1977 and since then tens of thousands more sincere souls have joined ISKCON temples and preformed full time devotional service living in the temples but somehow ISKCON have not been able to properly guide them and they have practically all left. ISKCON temples, for the most part, are empty buildings now, with a group of Indians coming on Sunday. So that is maybe 50,000-100,000 sincere souls like yourself who surrendered completely to Srila Prabhuapda and Krishna and gave their whole lives, 24 hours a day 7 days a week to the service of Krishna, and they are practically all gone now, all driven out of ISKCON for one reason or another.
The current leaders of ISKCON have transformed it into something like the Catholic church that I left. Now they do not encourage people to actually surrender to Srila Prabhuapda and Krishna and dedicate their lives to serving Krishna. Nowadays the ISKCON preaching to the Indians that come to their temples is basically, “don’t join the temple,” “keep living the life you are living,” “keep your job,” “continue associating with the non-devotees,” “and come to the temple on Sundays and give us big, big donations…” And they have adjusted everything to suit the Indian congregation.
Although this has created a very good business for many ISKCON temples, and a few “fat cats” in ISKCON are getting fatter, this is so far distant from the purpose and goals of the ISKCON Srila Prabhupada established that today’s ISKCON has practically no resemblance to Prabhuapda’s ISKCON at all. So there is no wonder that you and practically all the other devotees who surrendered to Srila Prabhuapda’s ISKCON have left today’s ISKCON.
Because today’s ISKCON it is not what we are looking for. We want Prabhuadpa’s ISKCON, not the monstrosity that today calls itself “ISKCON.”
And what is the main preaching that ISKCON presents to a new devotee, a sincere soul who appears at their door, enlivened and enthusiastic after discovering Srila Prabhuapda and Krishna by reading Srila Prabhuadpa’s books? Who naturally thinks that Prabhuapda is his guru? Immediatly ISKCON jump on the poor unfortunate devotee that and demand that he surrender to the idea that “Prabhupada is dead, you need a living guru…” If he will not accept this they brand him as a “dirty stinking ritvik” and kick him out of the temple.
To “rub salt into the wound” ISKCON quite openly admit that, at least for the most part, their “living gurus” are all conditioned souls completely entrapped in the network of maya. But they claim “It doesn’t matter if the guru is in maya!” “As long as he is approved by the GBC you should take initiation from him!” And they say, “It doesn’t matter if your guru falls down, we have plenty of gurus, you can take re-initiation from another one…” They do not realize that once being cheated by one bogus guru it is practically impossible for the unfortunate disciple to surrender again. And what is the point of going from one bogus ISKCON guru to another bogus ISKCON guru?
In this sense today’s ISKCON are far worse than the Christians. At least the Christians don’t say “Christ is dead… surrender to me instead…”
So they have created such an offensive, poisonous atmosphere that it is better to stay well clear of ISKCON.
They have no intention of connecting anyone to Prabhuapda. Their intention is to connect people to their “living gurus” who they openly admit are conditioned souls. And anyone who is even faintly familiar with the philosophy of Krishna consciousness as it is taught by Srila Prabhuadpa will know that it is pointless to accept a spiritual master who is a conditioned soul as he will not be able to guide the disciple out of the clutches of maya, because he is in the clutches of maya himself! This is such a simple basic point, if a man is drowning and another man wants to save him but he can’t swim then, even though it is a nice sentiment, it would be insanity for him to dive into the water and try and save the drowning man. They would simply both drown. And that is what is happening in ISKCON. Many of the “gurus” are sincerely trying to save their disciples but they can’t swim, so we see it happining time and time again in ISKCON, both the gurus and the disciples go under the water of maya and everyone drowns…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Dear bhakta rupa das,i am a devotee who lives outside iskcon temple scene.However my wife and children have a class everyday when possible which i give.We chant for ten to fiften minutes everyday.However it was not always the case!I learnt how to cook devotionally so we could progress in spiritual life.Taking prasadam is truly so important when you are away from the temple.Everyone chants 16 rounds now,including my teenage daughter and sons.Every sunday we travel the two hours to our local temple in Auckland new Zealand.We have a god centred family life …..although i have been initiated since 1980 and chanted 16 rounds since then,….. it is still difficult.Iskcon here is great….we have none of the USA PROBLEMS…HARE KRISHNA GOOD LUCK …CONTACT ME ANYTIME …YOUR NEW FREIND YUGA…
Dear Uncle Gurukripa prabhu, I bow my head for sattva guna last leg of this yuga, hard to find these days.
I cant find any words to describe my hearts pain about all this smelly stuff! I really really really would like to see a book from you, I am sure it would please Srila Prabhupada and Guru Parampara.
As a matter of fact it is your duty!!! Please, hear me!!!
Truth is truth, no mortal can change that.
Anu das anu das anu das,
Pitambara dasa
How much evidence is needed? The proof that the GBC is bogus has been there all along. The current GBC is not the original in any case for the simple reason that the original fell down. There is nothing to be done other than formal legal prosecution and where will that get you? If the new devotees are so uninformed and unintelligent to realize that gurus are not created by institutional appointment, even after reading Prabhapada’s books, then they deserver the cheaters. The true ISKCON needs to be reconstituted by sincere disciples from the ground up.
Thank you very much for this interview.
I’ve told to some friends that beside the written and recorded material, there is a big gap between us and Shrila Prabhupada just because about 95% of the Prabhupada’s disciples had to leave the movement. The 5% who stayed are compromissed with so many things that spoil the connection in many cases.
That’s why I think that Gurukrpa Prabhu can make a big service to the humanity writing his memories, I’d be able to beg him this.
I’d like to know more details about that episode he comments that Hari Sauri doesn’t cover accurately, about TKG being ordered to go to China.
Thank you very much.
YS Krishna Shakha dasa (Brazil)
Dear Gurukrpa prabhu, dandavat to you and to your service.
What hurts me the most, is that all those GBC or whomever it is, they are insulting my inteligence, as if I dont know how to read what I read? If SP did not appoint or name gurus and say do on my behalf, how on earth can a sane person understand otherwise? When SP said, no vyasasana because of this and that…Am I being dumb not to understand this? So, thank you for clarifying and upgrading my understanding about this situation.
Dandavat
Dear Gurukrpa prabhu,
I appreciate your forthright manner. It’s always good to hear someone tell it as it is.
ys
Yaduvendu das
All glories to Gurukripa Prabhu!!
Dear Gurukripa Prabhu,
Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your lotus feet!
Please bless me with the particle of your divine service done
for the sake of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.
Unfortunately I have never heard about you before. How could
I heard about you, from whom could I hear about you?
I congratulate you for being a succesful follower of His Divine
Grace. What can be most fortunate and higher than this?
Thank you for everything.
Your humble servant,
Ahinsra das (former disciple of Harikesh)
Its really great to here from a senior devotee about what exactly SP desired ISKCON to be and what went wrong all the way. We understand Gurukripa prabu and devotees at that time were not able to fight as they were individuals and were easily knocked out when raised their voice.
Finally its not fair to leave the home built by SP unprotected. We cannot allow the anyone plunder on the SP blood (ISKCON wealth). We should raise and sync our voice at-least to the once fighting in the fore-front. ISKCON-Bangalore, trying to follow purely and completely Prabupada is no where supported by the existing GBC (or ISKCON) nor is backed up by eminent senior’s like Gurukripa Prabu. They like to establish standards of ISKCON as was before Prabupadas physical disappearance. They require great amount of inputs from devotees like Gurukripa who were all the way present during those days. You would bring back the actual standards followed by devotee at the ISKCON temples and suggest the Bangalore ISKCON. This combined would bring a temple with SP’s standards. Devotees with SP initiations. Guru puja to Prabupada.
So request you to join your efforts to bring back “Home where the entire world could leave”, back to life with SP in center.
In the service of Srila Prabupada,
Trying to be a faithful servant of SP and Radha Krishna,
Radhakrishna Dasa
Dear Radha-Krsna dasa et al; My obeisances to all the readers. Obeisances to Bhakta dasa Maharajah and Gurukrpa Maharajah. All Glories To Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhu, your attitude is courageous and encouraging. There are, indeed, many Prabhupadanugas out there, who are trying to reestablish the instructions of Srila Prabhupada. It is a real struggle, as most of us have little in the way of resources or influence, and so we rage and watch, in knowledge, but having relatively little that we can do as individuals. Some have now had good success and are preaching nicely. This must be reinforced and continued, we should indeed work together as cooperatively as possible.
I have heard both good and bad of Iskcon Bangalore. In my opinion, it is only be mostly good, as despite any other problesm that may or may not exist there, they are attempting to follow Srila Prabhupada’s orders.
Meanwhile, many of us are ousted from our own guru’s temples that we served at since the early days, by upstart neophyte disiples of our own Godbrothers. But we don’t give up; that is the nature of most of Prabhupada’s disciples. We will NEVER abandon his instructions. A person who has eaten nice Krsna prasadam will never give it up for stale junk food. We hope for the advancement of all, and hope that the new devotees will see the light and understand and even support us in our purification attempts, rather than adopt fanatical cultish ways.
One thing for sure, it is up to the good Lord as to what will happen, so do not fear or be in overmuch anxiety. We must do our best, but the result is not entirely in our hands. The association of good devotees is still available, and to my perception, our influence is expanding. HKHR.
YS
Tamohara dasa (ACBSP) Tamoharadasa@yahoo.ca
Sadhu! Sadhu!