Published on May 7th, 2001 | by


Is this a solution to the ritvik debate?

Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik instruction, outlined in his letter of July 9, addressed to all devotees is self-explanatory and anyone can understand it whose brain substance is not contaminated by bogus philosophy preached by Iskcons false successor acaryas.

Hare Krsna Isha das

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada. I was shocked to receive your above letter for which I did not ask. Please take me off your mailing list. I am shocked because of your completely distorted understanding concerning the ritvik debate.

Srila Prabhupada’s ritvik instruction, outlined in his letter of July 9, addressed to all devotees is self-explanatory and anyone can understand it whose brain substance is not contaminated by bogus philosophy preached by Iskcons false successor acaryas, self appointed gurus worshiped in a homosexual paedophile guru lineage. Religious propagandist and pseudo-gurus disguised as devotees exploiting the members and assets of the society. -Demoniac Kali-yuga disciples-

“There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaishnavas in this Krishna Consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. A false acarya may try to override a Vaishnava by a high-court decision, (2/3 hand vote) but Bhaktivinoda Thakura says that he is nothing but a disciple of Kali-yuga.” (CC.Madhy.,Ch.1, Text 218 / 220, purport)

“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence.

” (SP to Bali Mardana, 1974)

Isha das: “I have always felt that Srila Prabhupada wanted those who He appointed Ritvik (as well as other qualified disciples) while he was with us to act as Guru on His departure.”

Urdhvaga das: Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to succeed him as guru. definitely he wanted it, but, but, but, and here lies the big problem, he wanted qualified disciples, he wanted qualified gurus, not some show-bottle gurus, imitator gurus, self-appointed gurus, zonal-acarya gurus, woman-hater gurus, woman-lover gurus, homo-gurus, harassing gurus, ex-communicating gurus, children-abusing gurus, murder-gurus, etc, etc. Srila Prabhupada said: “First become qualified”. We have nothing against any Iskcon gurus, but they first should aquire some qualification and not imitate.

Of course, a father likes to see his son to follow him. Of course a high-court judge likes to see his son to succeed him, but first the son has to qualify himself, otherwise he can not take the position of the father. If he tries without qualification to imitate the father, that means impostor, bogus.

We should not be fooled by all those 2/3 hand voted in, self-appointed bogus Isk con gurus, who like ordinary conditioned souls, are falling down after some time, and who are preaching bogus philosophy such as the “current link philosophy”, in support of “voted in successor acaryas”, with a “less then liberated guru thesis” and a “minimum qualification theory”, for adapting their “homosexual pedophile guru lineage” of conditioned souls into the pure guru-parampara, excluding Srila Prabhupada as a non physical link. This “current link philosophy.” is completely nonsensical in any context and is not confirmed by shastra and is a negation of Srila Prabhupada’s presence in his “vani“. It is simply the same old bogus philosophy which has caused so much chaos in our movement.

It is heartbreaking to see how new disciples in Iskcon are forced to worship their “present day living survivor gurus” (who fall down after some time), being denied direct access to and through Srila Prabhupada. Iskcon devotees have to see their so called “current living links” on the same platform as Srila Prabhupada, infallible equal in all respect, with the same worship.

Prabhupada is secondary because he is not a living guru. It is such an impudence and arrogance of Iskcon kanistha-gurus to teach their disciples such bogus philosophy. New devotees are not even being allowed to accept Srila Prabhupada as their siksha-guru, or instructing spiritual master, what to speak of diksa-guru, although Srila Prabhupada says: “I’ll always be with you in that way”. Isk con gurus are claiming from their disciples both positions, to be their initiating as well as the instructing guru. So where does Srila Prabhupada come in? Is he not needed anymore?. Because of BCS’s philosophy: “Now that Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically present……..” new devotees are forced to worship fallible gurus in a bogus current link sampradaya, excluding Srila Prabhupada in the chain of disciplic succession.

We should not deceive ourselves into thinking that Iskcons conditioned souls are infallible gurus.

We rather should take shelter with Srila Prabhupada, who is the perfect guru for all. He will never disappoint us. Srila Prabhupada is still available for anyone who is sincere in his heart, but if Prabhupad is substituted for ordinary souls posing as gurus, then one certaily will be deceived.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Urdhvaga Das

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6 Responses to Is this a solution to the ritvik debate?

  1. says:

    Dear Prabhu,

    Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    Over the years a number of devotees have quoted in articles which have appeared on the internet Srila Prabhupada from a letter to Bali Mardan in 1974 (“A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence”). But they (including Urdhvaga Das in his article [May 7 2001] ‘Is this a solution to the ritvik debate?’) fail to give the exact date of that letter. They all mentioned the letter was sent in 1974, but I cannot find it in the letter books, neither at the website of Vanipedia. I checked all the letters which Srila Prabhupada sent to Bali Mardan prabhu, and that quote is not mentioned anywhere. So either Srila Prabhupada said it to someone else or maybe he didn’t say it at all. It is a very important quote, but in order to use it one must know the precise reference. Can you please give me the exact reference, or else please give me the email address of Urdhvaga prabhu. Thanks in advance.

    Your servant, Gangadhara das

    • I suggest you write to Ekanatha Prabhu at Bhaktivedanta Archives and as if they have the letter. If you check in the current version of folio it may be there. “A devotee should have intelligence to know who is deviating. Surrender by your intelligence but don’t surrender your intelligence” It is certainly a proper quote. It is Srila Prabhupada’s mood certainly in that situation and there are other comments by Srila Prabhupada about that incident that I have personally read which confirm this mood of Srila Prabhupada. The situation was Bali Mardan was the Temple President of the New York ISKCON temple and he had married this woman who was claiming to be very wealthy, some connection with the Toyota Motor Company I believe, but it turned out to be false, and she was having the devotees cook chicken in the temple and they were doing this and no one was complaining to Srila Prabhupada. So of course devotees did not complain because Bali Mardan was the authority, the Temple President, and he was authorizing this nonsense. So when Srila Prabhupada found out he was very angry with the devotees for going along with this maya.

      This principle has nothing to do with ritvik. The point is that if a leader is not following Srila Prabhupada he is not a leader and no one should surrender to him. So the devotees have to be intelligent enough to test the leaders and not follow deviant instructions.

  2. Parker says:

    Leadership or management structure is definitely weak in ISKCON. How do new devotees who are aware of all the fall downs, abuses, and pretenders gain assurance about who is actually qualified to initiate new devotees?

    Is there a whitelist of sorts?

    • Hare Krishna Parker

      You will not find anyone in ISKCON who is qualified to initiate new devotees. In fact ISKCON is full of envious people who are in so many ways misrepresenting the teachings of Srila Prabhupada that it is better if you completely avoid ISKCON or anyone who has anything to do with ISKCON. They are not able to help you advance in Krishna consciousness but are very qualified to hinder your natural progress in spiritual life…

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  3. Only 2 whords. If Prabhupada appointed those “Gurus” and they fail:Prabhupada was wrong?Let they answer….

  4. DY says:

    Madhudvisa: I enjoyed reading your book. In college, the class in “Sociology of Religion” taught four stages of development for “religious” organizations. Unfortunately, the terms themselves have often been associated negatively. But anyway they are as follows: cult, sect, denomination and church. Cult’s main characteristic is when the central figure of the organization is alive. The sect phase is often preoccupied with canonizing books and carving up the money & power. If one could divide the “ritvik” debate into two camps, I observe both sides participating in the same inevitable stage of organizational development.

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