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Comments Posted By Gauranga das
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Dear Madhudvisa prabhu,
I humbly accept you chastisement on me.
You are right. Better I follow 4 regulative principles and chant 16 rounds daily.
I will not bother you any more and your valuable time with my misconceptions.
So, please excuse me. I hope we will meet at some other or better time.
» Posted By Gauranga das On August 14, 2013 @ 2:25 am
Siksa guru can be everyone and anyone who has some transcendental knowledge and realization, but diksa guru must be a liberated soul, one who is free from the four defects of conditional life, namely imperfect senses, illusion, comiting mistakes and cheating, and has an established eternal relationship with Krishna. Diksa guru must be on the level of Narada Muni, Srila Prabhupada, etc. His position is never shaken or thrown down by any external influence of Maya.
Therefore only diksa guru is to be worshiped by everyone, as jagat guru. Unfortunately in ISKCON today we see that each group of disciples worship only their own guru which they consider as their diksa guru, and disregard or ignore other gurus, but according to sastra there is no such thing as my guru or his guru. Guru is the guru for everyone. He is an external manifestation of Paramatma, and Paramatma can expand in many different forms, like many diksa gurus.
If ISKCON has created so many diksa gurus, then all of them should be respected equally and worshiped equally by everyone, in the same way as Srila Prabhupada is respected and worshiped. If ISKCON has so many diksa gurus, they should all be able to cooperate together with the same goal in mind, to please their guru, Srila Prabhupada, who instructed all of his disciples that the best way to please him is if they cooperate together after his departure. The current problems in ISKCON just prove that neither of them is a liberated soul, because the liberated soul would be empowered to immediately bring ISKCON back to its previous glory or he would leave ISKCON aside and start his own movement, just like Srila Prabhupada has done with Gaudiya Math. A liberated soul is more poweful than the sun. Just by his presence all dirty things are evaporated by instant. It is not that his presence would bring more contamination to the already contaminated area or sustain that same contamination. The power of sun is equal at all times, places and circumstances.
My conclusion is that there are many siksa gurus, who may also perform ritualistic ceremonies of purification and giving spiritual names on behalf of a liberated soul or diksa guru, and that diksa guru is a very rare liberated soul who is the primary spiritual guide for all other conditioned souls. And if we have more diksa gurus present at the same time that better for us.
Since Srila Prabhupada has physically departed, there were no visible liberated souls left on this planet. Therefore Srila Prabhupada should be considered the only diksa guru – acarya for all of us. Only he should be worshiped by everyone, and all of his achievements (books, videos, audios, temples, farms, etc) should be preserved in the same form without change for the next 9,500 years for the future generations.
Please forgive me if I made some mistakes or I was not clear enough, because I am not very learned in sastras, but as much as I could understand by reading Srila Prabhupada books, that much I have put my thoughts is this comment, for others to think also.
» Posted By Gauranga das On August 13, 2013 @ 10:49 pm
I forgot the exclamation mark here:
SP: (indistinct) their disciples! Why consider? … Who?
» Posted By Gauranga das On July 28, 2013 @ 1:41 am
Dear devotees, here I submit the transcript:
Sat: Then, our next question concerns … ahhh … initiations in the future … ahhh … particularly at that time when you are no longer with us. We want to know how at … a first and second initiation would be conducted.
SP: Yes. I shall recommend … some of you … After this is settled up, I shall recommend … some of you … to act as … ahhh … officiating acarya.
Tam: Is that called ritvik … acarya?
SP: Ritvik. Yes.
Sat: Then, what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and …
SP: He’s guru … He is guru.
Sat: But, he does it on your behalf?
SP: Then? That is formality … Because in my presence one should not become guru … So, on my behalf. On my order … “amara ajnaya guru haya” … be actually guru, but by my order.
Sat: So, they may also be considered your disciples? And …
SP: (indistinct) their disciples. Why consider? … Who?
Tam: No. He is asking (SP: Hmmm) that these ritvik-acaryas … they are (Hmmm) officiating … giving … diksa. (Hmmm) … They’re … The people who they give diksa to (Hmmm) … whose disciple … are they?
SP: They are [the] … his disciple (Background: They are his disciple) … who is initiating … he’s grand-disciple …
Sat: Yes …
Sat: Then we have a question conc…
SP: When I order you become guru, he becomes regular guru … That’s all … (long pause) … He becomes dis … disciple of my disciple … That’s it.
» Posted By Gauranga das On July 28, 2013 @ 1:36 am
Dear prabhus and matajis,
I know ISKCON for more than 20 years, and I was really surprised when I read this article from Gauridas Pandit prabhu about Srila Prabhupada’s desire for the initiation system after his departure. This is the best evidence I’ve encountered so far regarding how the initiations should be conduced in ISKCON according to Srila Prabhupada. How is it that the GBC and other senior devotees don’t take it so seriously?
After I read this article, I spent some time to hear the May 28th Appointment Tape Audio file, and made an independent analysis of it. The sound was very clear to me. When I compared my transcription and interpretation with those made by others, I was shocked. I mean, really shocked. I’ve got completely opposite conclusion. I couldn’t believe my eyes. It was completely, 100% opposite conclusion.
All the available transcriptions and their interpretations done so far had been serving as the only evidence which “proved” that Srila Prabhupada had appointed 11 gurus after his departure. But even if we, for the argument sake, accept that the tape was not tampered, it just proves the opposite – that Srila Prabhupada would recommend some of them to act as ritvik-acaryas after his departure. The whole conversation afterwards doesn’t contradict this fact also.
How I have done it? I would say, it was with the help of Paramatma. I prayed sincerely what should I do now, since my whole conception of ISKCON turned upside-down. I feel like I was cheated like never before. The biggest mistake in my life. I was very frustrated, since I am initiated in this fake system. I’m planning now to leave my so-called guru, and [F]ISKCON. I don’t want to be involved and identified with this corrupted and criminal society anymore. I am a truth seeker; I’m not interested in any position, comfort, name, fame or glory whatsoever. Better for me to die than live with these most dangerous snakes. I just regret how it took for so long to find out this truth. But still, I thank to Krishna who made me know the truth – better ever than never.
Dear devotees, I would like to share with you my transcript of the May 28th appointment tape. You will see how one or two small changes can make a whole thing completely different. And how, if one interprets it without any prejudges, one can get the crystal clear picture of this conversation.
Please allow me to publish this transcription, for the benefit of all sincere souls who are searching the Absolute Truth.
» Posted By Gauranga das On July 26, 2013 @ 10:01 pm
Madhudvisa prabhu, thank you for your clear clarification on this subject.
When I first came in contact with Krishna Consciousness movement it was through Srila Prabhupada books only, and of course Krishna prasadam and His Holy Name. I also very much appreciate those devotees who made all this happen. Without their mercy we would not even have Srila Prabhupada books to read. And, my best experience I had in Krishna Consciousness was reading Srila Prabhupada books again and again, and more I read more I felt I was getting into the heart of Srila Prabhupada, and this made me so happy because Srila Prabhupada’s heard was so pure, sincere and without any tinge of selfishness. I was so much happy to have an association with such a great person. I have no doubt that by reading Srila Prabhupada books is no less important or significant spiritually than hearing from Srila Prabhupada in his physical presence. Srila Prabhupada himself wanted that everyone should read his books to make advancement in spiritual life.
This is how I made an advancement in my life, by associating with a pure devotee of Krishna. And I didn’t make any personal effort to do this, it just came automatically. This is the power of reading Srila Prabhupada books.
It was all nice and all inspiring, until I was spiritually smashed down by one devotee who first introduced me in Krishna consciousness. He told me that my chanting of Hare Krishna has no value because I was not connected with guru-parampara, that I have not received the Holy Name from a guru. His point was that I need to be initiated and then my real spiritual life will begin.
It was shocking and painful to me at that time, even more because for long time I had no opportunity to get an association with any guru. Then I started to think that I really need a guru, who will personally guide me in every step of my spiritual life.
So, finally, after long time, I approached one guru in ISKCON. He inspired me through reading his books. His preaching is mainly philosophical and pointing at problems in ISKCON.
At that time I joined the temple as brahmacary. I have got first initiation from him after 2 years in the temple, and now for 3 years I am serving in that temple.
My guru is traveling and preaching a lot. He is also spending so much time writing his books. In this way he thinks he is doing his best in Srila Prabhupada’s service.
I very much appreciate his effort and enthusiasm in Krishna Consciousness. He is a very profound speaker and writer. That I appreciate. But, there is one thing I want to share with you. Although I liked him very much I felt very sad and disappointed when I heard him criticizing Srila Prabhupada’s books, that they are ambiguous, and that his grammatical knowledge of English is very poor. He is doing Srila Prabhupada’s books changes and also supporting those who are doing that.
I can make a long list of other things, but I will mention only a few those which affect me the most. I don’t like when my guru is heavily criticizing other religions in public, putting them all in the same box of covered atheism. This may be truth, but this is discouraging people of other religions to join the Hare Krishna movement. Srila Prabhupada was never criticizing Christianity in itself, but those who don’t follow the instructions of Jesus Christ, and claiming they are Christians. He was heavy on that point. But, my guru goes so far to condemn all other religions as bogus. This gives bad impression in public. Another thing I don’t like is that he underestimates the power of chanting Hare Krishna maha mantra. He speaks that we can chant Hare Krishna and be happy, but there are more important things to do, like writing books to philosophically defeat the modern civilization. This is clear to me, that we should defeat the modern scientists and others, but to think this is more important and glorious than chanting the Holy Name is deviation from Lord Caitanya’s instruction, that in this age to make an advancement in spiritual life there is no other way than chanting the Holy Name, no karma, no jnana, and no yoga. And one last thing I will mention is that he is two-faced in public and personally. What he speaks is not what he instructs his disciples and followers personally to do. I am initiated for 3 years, and he never chastised me personally, even when I was deviating and bad behaved sometimes. He never personally encouraged me in spiritual life and never asked me personally do I need any help from him. Actually I have no personal relationship with my guru. I feel like he is so much busy and I am so much busy that we have no time to meet and little discuss.
It is little difficult for me now, because I see no inspiration from him any more. I feel my spiritual life is checked, when I associate with him by hearing his lectures. He speaks of ISKCON deviations, but he is deviating himself, by not following Srila Prabhupada’s clear instructions. There is no ISKCON deviations because there is no ISKCON. So how can he speak of ISKCON deviations? Why he does not openly say in public there is no ISKCON today? Why he preaches in the name of ISKCON and writes and publishes his books outside of ISKCON? Why does he criticize ISKCON GBC, when he is privately having friends with some of them? I think he is duplicitous, politically oriented, not simple hearted, and misdirecting his disciples with whom he is not personally discussing these issues.
Srila Prabhupada was openly addressing all deviations at those times, in public. He didn’t hide himself from his Godbrother’s or others. Srila Prabhupada made everything clear and open. This is spiritual master. He speaks the truth, no matter to whom it is spoken, when and in which circumstance. The truth must be spoken, and especially by the Guru. So, my guru not speaking real issues of ISKCON, just wandering around the real point, the real problems of ISKCON, only proves that he is also part of that conspiracy of bogus guru business.
I am sorry to say that, but this is the fact. If we make a mistake in basic arithmetic, then all our higher calculations will fail. If you make 2+2=3 then when you build the bridge with such mathematics, it will collapse one or another day. It will not last very long.
In the beginning of my spiritual life, I was more spiritually happy than today. This is because I had only Srila Prabhupada as my guru. Once I accepted another guru as my savior, and finally diksa guru, my whole life all of a sudden collapsed in a moment, just because of one apparently small thing which is not in the line with Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. This is what happens when we put our faith to someone else other than Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada is the only pure devotee at the moment because he never disappoints anyone in any way. This is the impression I have got from reading Srila Prabhupada’s books.
To give the conclusion, I feel disconnected from guru-parampara, because I have taken shelter from a person who is not Srila Prabhupada, and who has not full faith in Srila Prabhupada, and who thinks he is better and more intelligent and more educated then Srila Prabhupada. I am initiated in ISKCON or whatever it is called, and they are deviants.
I feel now that my link with Srila Prabhupada is broken because I am still within ISKCON.
I have no problem to leave “ISKCON” and my “ISKCON” guru whenever I want. I will do that formally very soon. I don’t need diksa from a conditioned soul. Better no diksa at all.
And knowledge and practice is more important than diksa. Diksa is only a certificate. I don’t need a certificate to start chanting Hare Krishna maha mantra, and associate with Krishna personally in this way. I don’t need a certificate to get free from all my anarthas. I will read and pray to Krishna to get free of them. I also don’t need a certificate to become a bonafide preacher of God’s message. I will simply work on myself, how to surrender more to Krishna by following His instructions in whichever level I am. And I don’t need a certificate to know that Krishna is now protecting me fully. He is always protecting everyone, even animals, without any certificate.
Just one last question to finish this long letter:
As I understood from Madhudvisa prabhu, you are saying that disciplic succession is not broken. So, I would say that this is because of Madhudvisa prabhu who is presenting Prabhupada’s teachings to all new devotees through his books and videos. This is how a bonafide guru should behave. He just delivers the message of his bonafide guru, without any addition or any subtraction. I like that from you, prabhu. This is how you are preserving the guru-parampara. I like when you discuss about Bhagavatam cosmology. You have full faith in Srimad Bhagavatam’s description of the Universe. How the Moon is bigger than the Sun, or how the Moon is farther away than the Sun. You have full faith in Srila Prabhupada, prabhu. I can see from that. Not even my guru has such a faith. His top disciple gives seminars where he tries to justify modern view of the Solar System by compromising it with the Bhagavatam’s explanation. He is refers to Richard L. Thompson’s famous book Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy.
My question is that since the disciplic succession is not broken, so everyone can take to Srila Prabhupada’s books, read them and follow them, and make spiritual advancement. Everyone can start chanting Hare Krishna by hearing Srila Prabhupada’s chanting. And everyone will be automatically initiated by Srila Prabhupada if he is sincere and following. So, if one does not become formally initiated by Srila Prabhupada or any other pure devotee, can he still be an instrument to continue the guru parampara in the future? Can someone who is pure hearted in a way that he simply wants to preserve the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and deliver them to others without any change, but he never accepted any formal initiation, become a bonafide representative of guru-parampara, teach others, help them spiritually, and instruct them to do the same thing to future generations? Can we just ignore all this diksa formality and simply stress more on the knowledge and the practice? Does Krishna needs a certificate to bring us into His house, or rather our qualification, sincerity and faith in Him? Can we just preserve the teachings of Srila Prabhupada by following them sincerely, and leave everything else to Krishna’s will, so if Krishna likes, when He is pleased with us, He may send us one of his liberated souls to guide us further, maybe Srila Prabhupada again, in this life or the next?
» Posted By Gauranga das On August 12, 2013 @ 8:38 am
My thought is that since Srila Prabhupada’s departure, there have been so many deviations from his high-position disciples, and no pure, simple and empowered soul(s) like Srila Prabhupada or the previous acharyas were left, so I think at that moment the disciplic succession was broken. So how can the new generation devotees get connected with guru-parampara when it no longer exists, at least at the present moment?
» Posted By Gauranga das On August 11, 2013 @ 10:46 pm
My observation is that the present ISKCON was taken over by drunk pirates immediately after Srila Prabhupada’s departure, and it is no longer a safe ship for crossing over this miserable ocean of material existence, even though the drunk pirate leaders say on the contrary. It would be wise for the sober persons not to come in close contact with this ship, and to run off if some of them are already inside.
» Posted By Gauranga das On August 6, 2013 @ 12:40 pm