Vedic Marriage is not for Sex (Certainly not for Homosexuality!)
Please do not be worried. Our movement is essentially for spreading this chanting of Hare Krishna world wide. And the main responsibility of my disciples is to follow the four regulative principles and chant 16 rounds without fail. Please worry about that first. (Srila Prabhupada)
Hridayananda dasa Goswami is one of the greatest spiritual authorities in today’s ISKCON. He took the post of author of the “Bhaktivedanta Purports” for the completion of Srimad-Bhagagavatam after Srila Prabhupada left our material vision in 1977. For such a post one must be a pure devotee of Krishna on the topmost platform, a person Bhagavata, otherwise it is not possible to write commentary on the book Bhagavata. If he is not a person Bhagavata then his commentry on the book Bhagavata is useless and worse than that misleading.
Although as devotees we may have many anarthas [unwanted desires] and we may sometimes fall from the proper standard, we have to know what the proper standard is and we have to know if we are not following that standard we are fallen and in such a fallen condition we can not make spiritual advancement nor can we help others make spiritual advancement. We need that much honesty at least. If we are not even chanting our rounds and following the principles we are fallen and we have to recognize it and do everything in our power to recover from our fallen condition.
“For everything you want to learn, you have to take some penance voluntarily, so we have to give up something in the beginning. Just like we advise, “no illicit sex, no intoxication, even up to smoking cigarettes and taking tea.” So for one who is accustomed to these habits, for him to give up immediately these things, it becomes a little painful. Therefore one has to become tolerant, “Never mind, I will have to become free.” Just like to become cured from some disease, we agree to undergo sergical operation although it is very painful, tolerate. Similarly, we have to learn toleration although there will be some pain. That is called titiksavah.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture Nov. 24, 1974)
The way to recover from our fallen condition is to accept the process of saddhana-bhakti, Krishna consciousness, as it has been taught to us by Srila Prabhupada. To begin this process following certain basic regulative principles is necessary. These principles are not optional. If we refuse to follow these principles there is no question of advancing in spiritual life. The four regulative principles are: no illicit sex life [this means sex only in marriage and then only for the purpose of having a Krishna conscious child], no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication. In addition we must agree to chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra daily. Accepting these basic principles is the beginning, they pave the way for our advancement in Krishna consciousness.
“We have to be very cautious in executing our spiritual duties by observing the rules and regulations and regularly chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. If we neglect doing this, we will eventually fall down. We must rise early in the morning, bathe, attend mangal-arati, worship the Deities, chant the Hare Krishna mantra, study the Vedic literatures and follow all the rules prescribed by the acaryas and the spiritual master. If we deviate from this process, we may fall down, even though we may be very highly advanced.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.8 Purport.)
Hridayananda Maharaja’s conclusion is:
“Given the need to balance strict varnashrama with liberal spirituality, I believe that ISKCON should recognize and encourage monogamy among all its members of whatever orientation, and that such recognition and encouragement should take appropriate forms that achieve both purposes: the maintenance of varnashrama and the encouraging of spiritual sincerity.”
He is recommending formal recognition of homosexual relationships and it seems he believes introducing “liberal spirituality” (whatever that means) into ISKCON is important.
“Simply if the standard of our routine work is maintained very nicely, that is if we steadfastly perform our daily program of rising early, cleansing, chanting 16 rounds, holding kirtan wherever we are at least twice daily, reading, worshiping the Deity, going on Sankirtana, like that–if this routine work is always done nicely and never neglected, then our all success is guaranteed in whatever we do. But if this, our regular Krishna consciousness program is allowed to slacken, then everything else we try will fail. That is the simple formula for success.” (Srila Prabhupada letter to Kisora Feb 5, 1972)
Krishna recommends:
“Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth.
” (BG 4.34)
To understand these perplexing issues we have to find a pure devotee of Krishna, a self-realized soul, surrender to him and render service to him, then if we inquire from him submissively he can give us real knowledge, because he has seen the truth.
We have Srila Prabhupada, he is certainly a self-realized soul and he has seen the truth, and he has given us perfect guidance on all issues including this one. If we hear from him submissively, surrender to him and render service unto him he will give us real knowledge.
The exact same position Hridayananda has recommended for ISKCON was taken by some Christian churches in the seventies, they were marrying same-sex couples.
“Even the priests have become licentious, and thousands of priests are going to the hospital to cure their drinking habit. They are sanctioning homosexuality. In a Christian newspaper I read about a priest even performing marriage between two men. So outside of this Krishna consciousness movement, I don’t find any group of ideal men. Therefore, if you want to help society, you must learn from us how to train men of ideal character.”
So the business of ISKCON is to train men of ideal character. Not to accept members who are engaging in illicit sex and are not prepared to even try to give it up…
“It is not my opinion–it is the verdict of the sastra[scripture]. Opinion–what is the value of opinion when the people are like dogs and asses? What is the use of taking the opinion of an ass? This vox populi–taking the opinion of the public–is degrading modern society. If the public is composed of drunkards, smokers, meat eaters, gamblers, and woman hunters, then what is the value of their opinion? Why take the opinion of fourth-class men? What Krishna says–that is the standard. Krishna is the supreme, and His version is final. No other opinion is allowed. When I introduced the principle “No illicit sex life,” I didn’t ask for opinions–“It must be done.”
“You are working with the public, and we are also working with the same people. We take the same people–those addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat eating—and we make them into saintly persons. So our method is practical. You can see what their previous history was, and what they are now. You must train up one class of men like them—men of ideal character.
“Our program is not vox populi. We are saying only what the authoritative scriptures say. If you actually want to do social welfare, then you must take to the standard formula as given in the scriptures. In the Bhagavad-gita Krishna explains how one can become peaceful–a first-class man. But if you don’t accept His authority–if you’d rather follow public opinion–you will never be successful. You want to make a peaceful society, but you do not know how. Therefore you must adopt this process of Krishna consciousness.
If anyone–even a madman–agrees to follow our principles, then he can become peaceful. He can become a first-class man.
“In the sky there are so many stars, but there is only one moon. In terms of percentage, the moon is nothing. But in terms of its value, the moon is far more important than all the stars combined. So in our Krishna consciousness movement, our aim is to educate a few men of ideal character. If you and other leaders of society support this movement, you will be performing the highest social welfare. (Srila Prabhupada conversation with social worker, May 1975)
The purpose of Krishna conscious marriage is NOT to satisfy lust. If a man and a woman marry in Krishna consciousness that does not give them any facility for illicit sex. Sex is only for the purpose of bringing nice Krishna conscious children into the world. So a grhastha couple is permitted to have sex only for this purpose. So marriage in Krishna consciousness is NOT a facility for engaging in illicit sex in any way, shape or form.
“Generally the girls desire a good husband and a good home, children, that is their natural propensity, so we want to show some ideal householders also. But the proposal that marriage will solve the question of lust, is not practical. Neither wife should be accepted as a machine for satisfying our lust. The marriage tie should be taken as very sacred. One who marries for subduing lust is mistaken. Because lust cannot be satisfied simply by indulging in sense gratification. It is compared to trying to extinguish a fire with a large amount of petrol. For the time being the fire may appear to be extinguished by pouring a large quantity of petrol, but petrol is so dangerous that at any time, it can be in flame. So to subdue lust is a different process. Then you will have to take to Deity worship. I am sending herewith one copy of the process of Deity worship. Krishna is Madan Mohan. You have already stated in your letter, it is very nice, that you would much prefer to channel all your desires to Krishna, and you ask me how it is possible when enveloped in maya, seeing only material forms. You have also written to say that if you can see the Absolute Beauty which is all-attractive, then you could not help but be attracted and would scorn mundane beauty. This is the actual remedy. So you may take immediately to the Arcana, the Deity worship. Kirtanananda Maharaja has also begun Deity worship in New Vrindavan and Pradyumna knows how he is doing and similarly, in New York, Brahmananda is now engaged in Deity worship. The process is a little difficult in the beginning, but once habituated, it is not at all difficult. So apart from the marriage proposal, you may immediately take to Deity worship. I am sending herewith one copy of the process of Deity worship, compiled by Brahmananda, that will help you and Pradyumna also knows, so combined together you immediately begin Deity worship as Kirtananda and Brahmananda are doing, and I am sure this process, helped by your regular chanting, will kill Mr. Lust, rest assured. Of course, when you begin, I am at your service always, and give you suggestions and ways and means to make progress in the Deity worship, but you can immediately adopt this principle.” (Srila Prabhupada letter to Hayagriva October 7, 1968)
So we find Srila Prabhupada’s advice and Hridayananda’s advice apprear to be radically different. Maharaja seems to be suggesting that “devotees” may continue to engage in illicit sexual activities, but with only one person, and in this way they will gradually advance in Krishna consciousness. His advice is to continue to feed the lust with a limited amount of illicit sex and hope it will gradually go away. In reality lust will not go away by this process at all. As Srila Prabhupada has so graphically described this is like pouring a large amount of gasoline on to a fire to try and extinguish it.
Maharaja’s advice may appear very nice to many “devotees” who don’t want to follow the regulative principles and still want some standing as devotees in Krishna consciousness. The apparent purport of his statement is everyone, heterosexual and homosexual, may continue with illicit sex but with only one person and in this way they will make gradual advancement in Krishna consciousness. This is very dangerous advice indeed. Those who follow his advice will not make advancement in Krishna consciousness at all. The effect of accepting his advice will be devastating on their spiritual lives.
“We don’t want disciples. I never collected disciples. I never compromised that ‘You can do whatever you like, and you become my diciple.’ No. ‘You have to follow the regulative principles.
‘ This morning I accepted so many… ‘First promise whether you are going to do this. Then I initiate.’ This is my policy. If I would have said, ‘No, you can do whatever you like and give me some money, I shall give you mantra,’ then you would have seen millions. But I accept very selected disciple, not that anyone, everyone comes, and I accept disciple. No. He is first of all trained up for six months. Then, when he is able to promise to follow the regulative principles then I accept. This is stricture. It is not that everyone comes, ‘Give me thirty-five dollars. I give you mantra, and within six months you become God.’ I do not do like that. (Srila Prabhupada conversation May 20, 1975)
The whole basis of the argument of recognizing homosexual marriages is that hetrosexuals have the facility for illicit sex in marriage so why should homosexuals miss out. This is a completely baseless argument. There is no facility for sex life in Krishna consciousness whatsoever except for the purpose of having God-conscious children. So there is no basis for this arguement whatsoever. Krishna conscious marriage is not for sex.
“A Krishna conscious marriage is not based on sense gratification but rather mutual cooperation between husband and wife for making advancement in spiritual life and also for raising Krishna conscious children. It is said in the Vedas that one should not take on the responsibility of parenthood unless he can deliver the child from the repeated cycle of birth, death, disease and old age. So in this way mould your life in the service of the Lord and be happy.” (Srila Prabhupada letter to Babrubahan March 4, 1971)
“Regarding your wish to be married with a Krishna conscious family, that is nice. You will have a nice, fixed-up wife, and you will be happy working hard for Krishna together. I never discourage marriage, providing it is for Krishna’s service and not for simply sex life. It is always meant for a higher purpose. In God’s creation there is male and female even in the spiritual world, and there is purpose for such creation. The purpose is so that male and female may join together, not for sex-life, but to glorify the Lord. From Srimad-Bhagavatam we learn that in Vaikuntha the women are much more beautiful in their figure, smiling, dressing, etc., but the men and women there are so much attracted by the chanting of Hare Krishna that they do not get any sex impulse even by intimate mingling. Here also we sometimes get very good example, because when our nice boys and girls are dancing together in chanting Hare Krishna at least for the time they forget about the sex impulse. This is perfection of life, to be so much attached to Krishna that all insignificant pleasures are utterly forgotten. (Srila Prabhupada letter to Uddhava Feb 18, 1969)
“A devotee, therefore, should execute his devotional services with full energy, endurance, and confidence. He should perform his scheduled duties, he should be pure in heart, and he should serve in association with devotees. All six of these items will lead the devotee to the path of success. One should not be discouraged in the discharge of devotional service. Failures may not be detrimental; they may be the pillars of success. One must have good faith in the regulative principles followed by the self-realized souls, and one should not be doubtful about the ultimate result of such devotional service. Rather one must go on executing his prescribed duties without hesitation, and one should never be influenced by unwanted association.” (Light of the Bhagavata 43)
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
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Now a days people are like western culture .So maximum people wear short and tight dress which is very attractive. My question is as a student and a Krishna consciousness devotee how can I avoid these attraction
It is a very difficult time certainly. The only way to avoid it is to actually become Krishna conscious which starts with surrendering to Srila Prabhuapda. So you have to read all of Prabhupada’s books, chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and strictly follow the four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication.
And still we will suffer from so many problems, so much temptation, and so many obstacles put in our way by maya.
It is not very easy to become Krishna conscious in the material world, it like trying to swim upstream, against the flow. But we have to understand that becoming Krishna conscious is the only valuable thing and our only option. Otherwise we will perpetually rot in Hell. So we have to become Krishna conscious. Nothing is easy, if you want to become a big successful materialist you have to work very hard at that also and even if you succeed and become rich you will loose it all at death.
But whatever we achieve in Krishna consciousness is our permanent asset, we will never loose whatever advancement we are able to make in Krishna consciousness.
So yes, it is difficult to become Krishna conscious, but if someone has even the smallest amount of intelligence he will see the futility and pointlessness of trying to become happy through sense gratification and will realize that our only option is to work very hard for Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and become Krishna conscious.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna prabhu ji Dandwat Pranam!!!
Prabhu ji I want to know about horoscope match for marriage. I and my girlfriend want to get married. I am chanting 16 rounds and she is also a good girl. I want to serve Krishna. When I will convince her, she will also be ready. But the problem is horoscope is not matching. Out of 36 guna 18.5 are matched and bhakuta guna is 0. So should we marry? Because by horoscope matching it is not recommended. It is said that if marriage will be, there will be more problems come in life of both. If there will be problems, we will have problems in services of Krishna. Please give some suggestions prabhuji.
Hari bol!!!
Hare Krishna Tushar
Everyone has problems in marriage… Even if the horoscope matches…
That is what marriage means, problems. So you have to expect that.
Main thing is try to convince her to take to Krishna consciousness. And see if she will actually do it or not. If she becomes a serious devotee and you have some plan for working together in Krishna consciousness then it should be OK. But she may not be interested in Krishna consciousness. And if that is the case and you can not convince her then there is no point in marrying her.
So main thing is the wife is a sincere devotee of Krishna and is respectful and submissive to the husband. That you have not yet found out…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
haribolo,
what does krishna consciousness say about marriage in terms of a women who has been in a relationship then had children before wedlock should the women be married or is having children considered marriage?
We are all fallen and there are so many problems in Kali-yuga. So Krishna conscious message is the same for everyone, woman or man, does not matter, same message. Chant Hare Krishna mantra at least 16 rounds a day and follow the four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day.
In one sense Kali-yuga is an ocean of faults and is not very conducive to advancing in spiritual life. But there is one very great benefit of Kali-yuga and that is simply by chanting the Hare Krishna mantra we can very easily become liberated and more. We can very easily go back home back to Godhead by chanting Hare Krishna.
So no matter what our condition is we need to just chant Hare Krishna and Krishna will make the arrangements in our lives so we can make rapid advancement in Krishna consciousness.
As far as the children try to help them advance in Krishna consciousness also. Cook and offer to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna, in that way you can feed your children Krishna prasadam. Let them hear the chanting of Hare Krishna, have Mangal Aroti in your home in the morning and Bhoga Aroti in the evening and let the children engage in the kirtans. Encourage them to read Srila Prabhupada’s books, etc. In this way you can gradually transfer everything to Krishna consciousness…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare krishna
Madhuvisa Dasa ji,
Thanks for clarifying the topic.
my question is
“if a man wAnt no child,then he should marry or not?
if opposite sex are not for resolving lust then,why Krishna gave us hormones that are responsible for attraction towards opposite sex?
By this article i concluded that attraction towards opposite sex is characteristic of Tamsik type fourth class people. Am i right?
I am 18yrs old studying currently
i am highly influenced by Shrila prabhupada since my childhood(because my father used to read his books so when he went to his job i used read his books and untill now i guide myself by Praphupad’s philosphy whatever he mentioned in books.
now i feel fallen in love towards krishna a lot
recently i went an ISCON temple so i am not much guided about truth)
sorry if i had done any mistakes in writing or in asking formalities
understand self as Krishna devotee
suman saurabh
Hare Krishna Suman
Attraction to opposite sex is because we are in the material body and we are in the bodily concept of life. But actually we are not the material body, we are the spirit soul who is within the body. So the spirit soul is not male or female. It is in a material body that is male or female. So this attraction between the sexes is only on the bodily platform. And it can not actually satisfy us because we are not these material bodies.
We are actually looking for pleasure on the spiritual platform, there is no actual pleasure on the material platform.
So we have to become Krishna conscious and be able to distinguish between the hormones [which are part of the material body, which really has nothing to do with us] and our real identity as spirit souls.
I would encourage you to keep reading Srila Prabhupada’s books and you will find a much better answer to your question from Srila Prabhupada directly than I can give here.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
…Leave her!! Serve God instead…You will have zero or less headaches…
Concerning the image at the top of this article: why is a someone in the dress of a sannyasi bouncing on a woman’s bed? I assume it is a woman’s bed, because there is a hairbrush on the vanity table in the background.
Assuming this is an authentic photograph (and not Photoshopped), this is shameful behavior for a sannyasi. One of the reasons Sri Chaitanya became a sannyasi was because it is considered an exalted ashram. Yet this individual degrades this ashrama by acting in such a manner?
From this history of Chota Haridasa, we learn that Sri Chaitanya clearly warned us that those in the renounced order were not to associate with women, not even in dreams. Yet here we see sannyasi lying on a woman’s bed, with women giggling in the background.
Yes. This is modern, ISKCON Sannyasi…
Yes sir, it sure don’t look like a sannyasi’s bedroom ! I looked at it very closely and i see no evidence of Photoshop. Who are them matajis taking the picture i wonder.
I am so confused with life right now. I am finding it difficult to focus on anything in life because i think what ever i am gonna do is waste of time bcuz our main goal of life is to go back to God head. I have no goals in life due to this and i find it difficult to even study bcuz all these materialistic goals are worthless. Sometimes i think what if enjoy life till 30 ie not restricting myself with not drinking and sex and then start following all 4 principles seriously. But then i think it would be wrong cuz i\’ll be ignoring lord krishna knowingly. I have no idea what to do. How can i live without any goals in life.. Plz help me… Will i punished if not follow 4 rules till 30 and then sincierly follow them.. plzz help
Hare Krishna Prateek
Yes. You will be punished if you do not follow the regulative principles now. And that punishment will be that you will never be able to follow the four regulative principles and never be able to become Krishna conscious. We have to just take it seriously now. We have to become convinced that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and our business is to surrender to Him and serve Him. If you do not restrict yourself and you engage in unlimited sex and drinking then you will destroy your body and mind and after that you will no longer be able to concentrate on Krishna consciousness.
Your goal should be to become a pure devotee of Krishna, to surrender to Krishna, to serve Krishna. There is no question of having no goals. And then you have to think about your life. If you are going to get married, if you are going to be a family man, then you have to be able to support your family. So if that is the case you have to get some qualification, some way you can make money to support yourself and your family.
So you have to plan for the future. The main plan is always to become a pure devotee of Krishna. But to achieve this you need to have other plans and goals.
The main thing is you should actually surrender to the process of chanting at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day, strictly follow the four regulative principles [no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication] and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day. Of course in the beginning you will not be perfect and may fall down from time to time. But you have to be always determined to get yourself back in the proper standard way of life.
There is no other goal really than becoming a pure devotee of Krishna. Everything in our life needs to be working towards this main goal.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you for this article. I will pass it around. Jai Srila Prabhupada !
The spiritual texts are given in context of male like not hankering after women, etc. therefore I being a female have some doubts.
It is given that men should leave all family attachments, etc. at the age of 50 and go to spiritual places during the period of Sanyasashrama but what about women? What should they do?
Secondly, I do not know whether to ask you this question or not.- Can women chant Hare Krishna mahamantra during menstruation. I think they cannot light lamps before the deity during that period. But can they chant the 16 rounds and read the books during the period.
Sir, I will surely not mind if you do not answer the second question.
Thank you.
Hare Krishna Sahana
For women, they require protection, so they do not leave the family situation. They remain in the family protected by the grown up sons if the husband does decide to take sannyasa. So this sannyasa and renouncing the family is not for women.
As far as menstruation, you can chant Hare Krishna in any situation at all, there are no hard and fast rules. So we should be always chanting Hare Krishna 24 hours a day without stop. Nothing should stop us from chanting Hare Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna PrabhuJi ,I have A Question that if there is no love in that material world but have only lust ,and only shree Krishna is only person to be loved.
So ,what you say about that couples who loves each other so much and don’t matter whatever situation. For example ,I love my wife so much but her face got burned because of acid attack so now her face is looking like ugly.
So now I not have love for her ,??
But I have.
Because as you told in a article that ,do we love to a girl who have ugly face ? No
So its all about lust.
But in case of me or many others couples ,its not true ,I love her so much n she also to me.
So please. Explain me what do you mean by that ,in material world have only lust ??
Sorry for anything wrong said by me.Please reply me soon.
Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna Ravi
What we see as love in the material world is only a perverted reflection of the real eternal love we have with Krishna.
Love is eternal, love is permanent. But the material bodies we find ourselves trapped in in this material world are temporary. They are born, they exist for a few years and they die. So even if you do love someone in this material world that love can not last. The maximum possible amount of time it can last is 100 years or however long you can live in this body. Then you and your lover are separated probably forever.
And usually love in the material world does not last for a lifetime. And usually love in the material world is not unmotivated. There is generally some personal interest in all our relationships in the material world. That is not real love.
You can take it as a fact that there is no real love in the material world but we can get the idea of what love is from our experiences in the material world.
As you come to understand what real love is, as you develop your love for Krishna you will come to realize that what you thought was love in the material world was not love at all and you will realize that love is only something that can be truly experienced with Krishna.
That is the fact. But while we are bewildered by maya we accept the illusion as fact and we do not want to accept the truth.
The point is whatever ‘love’ we experience in the material world, that will decrease over time, and you will experience this as your life goes on even if you have not experienced it yet.
But real love is not like this. Real love does not decrease. Real love increases unlimitedly. So love that decreases over time is not really love. That is only a perverted reflection of the real ever-increasing loving relationship we have with Krishna.
So this is the truth. There is no real love in the material world. And to understand this more deeply you need to study Srila Prabhupada’s books.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna,
Dear Madhudvisa Dasa Ji ,As I saw Ravi’s comment and your reply to him.
I wanna know that what I do because before come to know about Krishna consciousness,I was in relationship with a girl and we love each other so much and but as I come to know now(since 1 month ago)
About Krishna consciousness,I’m really want to become pure devote of Krishna and as I read that for it ,its important to chanting holy name of God and take srila Prabhupada Ji as my Guru and read his book and follow instructions given by him ,by it I will become Pure devote of Krishna and I’m ready for it but I have a question that I have to leave my love(here in that material world) ,imean ,that girl. ? Because it will cause for me to stay trapped in that illusion(Maya).
And I’m sure she cant accept it that become devote of Krishna. Because she loves me just,Even in also afraid to say that how I say to her that I have to leave you.
So i easily can attain Krishna consciousness.
So Madhudvisa Dasa Ji ,is I’m going to make mistake by leaving her or should I stay with her and also serve Krishna.
Please tell me what I do ?. Or I should try to make her also to serve Krishna but I think she not accept it really, and if I be with her then surely ,it will hard to me to become fully Krishna’s devote.
I hoep you got what i mean ,and my English is also not so good but I hope you got it.
Hare Krishna Sanjay
It is better not to change our situation in life but to add Krishna to our lives.
So if she is a nice girl and if she really loves you then if you become a devotee of Krishna and explain it to her naturally she will listen to you. So that would be your best gift to her. To introduce her to Krishna.
A woman naturally loves a man and is naturally looking to that man for guidance and direction. So if you can guide her and direct her to Krishna then you will be doing a great service.
If you can convince her about Krishna consciousness and get her to chant Hare Krishna and cook for Krishna and offer everything to Krishna then she will help you in becoming Krishna conscious.
At least you should try it. If you make a very sincere attempt to convince her about Krishna consciousness and she is totally against it then you may have to reconsider. But at least you should try and convince her. Try to preach to her.
You have to become strong yourself. It is not that if you leave this girl you will be safe from the girls. There are girls everywhere… So it would be much better if you can convince this girl to become a devotee of Krishna and you can marry her and have a nice family of devotees of Krishna.
There is nothing wrong with family life if it is centered around serving Krishna and realistically now the temples are not providing proper training for Brahmacaris. So it is a little difficult. If there was a place you could go to and get properly trained as a brahmacary that would be good. But right now such a place I think does not exist.
So Lord Caitanya’s general instruction is to stay where you are and just add Krishna consciousness so I think you should try this at least and just see what happens. If it does not work then you can do something else but I think you should at least try introducing this girl to Krishna.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you so much for clearing the question of what is right and wrong in sexual matters up. I breathe a sigh of relief in that I now have a religious reason, beyond simply wishing to be chaste, to continue practicing celibacy in dating! I have nobody I am in love with or genuinely attracted to at present so I didn’t see the point in dating people for impure reasons, and, yes some people think I am weird for not being like they are. I don’t care, I want something more old-fashioned then they want. Now that I know Krishna doesn’t approve I have no reason to be tempted to be like the people I have known and still know.
I have a question though : Where should a beginner begin in studying Krishna? I want to know all about him and am curious how to find out more. What book is best to start with? I have a limited budget and cannot buy books on the Internet. Where should I start, which book is best for a beginner? Also, Is there a study group or place I can go to in Boise, Idaho, USA where I can meet other people who are seeking God Consciousness?
Another question : Are Eggs considered meat?
Hare Krishna Brooke
Nice to hear from you. Yes. Eggs are not offerable to Krishna. They are not clean. They are the period of a chicken. Very disgusting things actually. Full of disease and completely in the mode of ignorance.
As far as sex that is for having children in marriage and not otherwise. If it is used within marriage for having nice God-conscious children then Krishna says that He is such sex performed according to the regulative principles. So everything has a purpose and is good when it is used for that purpose. So sex is for having children in marriage and is good when used for that purpose but otherwise sex is the most bewildering thing for anyone who is desiring to make spiritual advancement. As soon as we start having sex for ‘pleasure’ we become completely bewildered and completely on the bodily concept of life and completely unable to understand anything on the transcendental platform.
It is sex that chains us to this material world and which forces us to take birth and suffer old age, disease and death over and over and over again perpetually. So any person who wants to make any spiritual advancement at all must regulate sex life and limit it for being used only for having children within religious marriage. Otherwise they will not be able to make any spiritual advancement.
And this becomes possible only if we can reestablish our original love for Krishna. If we can develop our love for Krishna then we will be experiencing pleasure on the transcendental platform that is so much greater than the so-called pleasure one can get from sex life that he will no longer be at all attracted to sex. It is a question of experiencing a higher pleasure. Sex is really nothing at all and if we think about it logically we can see that. But in the material world it is the highest pleasure, so it is a very bewildering thing. Practically everyone is completely enchanted and completely bewildered by sex, and this means they are completely unable to even conceive of anything spiritual or transcendental.
But even though we can understand these things intellectually in reality the sex desire is very strong and very difficult to control. The only way to actually control it is by becoming Krishna conscious. So the bottom line is we have to learn the process of how to become Krishna conscious from Srila Prabhupada and follow that very seriously and then as we develop our love for Krishna we will loose interest in the so-called love of this material world which is not at all love actually but is only lust.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Grihastha Ashram
The Vedic social model is composed of four varnas(occupational divisions based on personal qualities and activities) and fourashrams (progressive life stages of spiritual growth). Within thisvarnashram system, marriage is known as grihastha ashram.
“Srila Vyasadeva was a householder, yet his residential place is called an asrama. An asrama is a place where spiritual culture is always foremost. It does not matter whether the place belongs to a householder or a mendicant. The whole varnasrama system is so designed that each and every status of life is called anasrama. This means that spiritual culture is the common factor for all.”(Srimad Bhagavatam 1.7.2 Bhaktivedanta purport.)
The four purusarthas (human goals) of grihastha ashramare summarised as follows.
Dharma (religious principles).
Artha (economic development).
Kama (sense gratification).
Moksha(liberation)
.
“The four principles of life allow one to live according to religious principles, to earn money according to one’s position in society, to allow the senses to enjoy the sense objects according to regulations, and to progress along the path of liberation from this material attachment.” (Srimad Bhagavatam 4. 22. 34 Bhaktivedanta Purport.)
why Srimad Bhagabt Gita is not a subject in our education system fully.
Hare Krishna…I have a question.
For men, is “intentional emission of semen” wrong if one is a devotee?
Yes. Of course it is. That is illicit sex. It is very bad for a man to loose semen. That means you loose your strength, your intelligence, your determination…
If one is not willing or able to follow the orders of the spiritual master, do not become initiated.
If someone is initiated and is unable to maintain their vows, they should exhibit a mood of humility and repentance, and honestly confess ones weakness while striving for purification. One should not exhibit pride and defiance, egotistically demanding that the regulations of spiritual life be loosened to conform to their lapsed spiritual practice. This is known as Dharmasya Glanih. Such “preaching” is very destructive to the society of devotees and is an exhibition of the mode of ignorance.
śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
aikāntikī harer bhaktir
utpātāyaiva kalpate
“Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas and Nārada-pañcarātra is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.”
According to Rupa Goswami in NOI 1, upasta vegam (the pushing of the genitals) must be controlled before one can be a spiritual master. It is shocking that so many self appointed spiritual masters online are freely advising others that controlling the genitals is unnecessary.
Here is a quote from Srila Prabupada on Dharmasya Glanih:
Dharma, religious principle… Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. Glāniḥ means polluted. “Wherever there is pollution in the matter of discharging religious principles, I come down.” Tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham. “Then I come down to settle up things.” So Kṛṣṇa came for this purpose, to settle up or to purify dharmasya glāniḥ, pollution in the matter of discharging religious principles. Therefore, as soon as there is pollution, means there is a class of men who have polluted. They are called duṣkṛta, sinful. When there is increase of the number of sinful persons, there must be pollution in the system of religious life. This is the way. If everyone is following religious principle, everyone does not commit any sinful activity, so at that time, there is no chance of pollution in religiousness.
SB lecture 5.24.74 Rome
After initiation you are bound to follow the guidance of the spiritual master. Srila Prabupada has made it clear that there is nothing wrong with sex, as long as it is to produce god concious children.
I cannot understand why Devi Dasi feels that this is a personal choice after initiation. This is wrong and clearly goes against the promise made in front of the spiritual master at the time of initiation.
Regards. Pari.
Tusti d.d.
September 9,2010
What devi dasi said is important. I agree with her. It is difficult for the young devotes to be so strict but still they can be sincere ones in they service to Krishna. But I hope that gradually they will be able to follow this principle. Of corse it is important no doubt but even Srila Prabhupada said that out of four regulative prinsiples most important to chant 16 rounds.
Maintaining an uncompromising standard is just as important as forgiveness and encouragement to assure the spiritual health of a devotee.
Dear Devi Dasi Mataji,
Hare Krishna.
AGTSP!
I read your post with interest and feel compelled to write a few words.
Firstly, the decision to practise or not to practise is the decision of the individual. That’s free will. However, the fact or stipulation of the scriptures and the spiritual teachers or acaryas have to be stated clearly for those who wish to live their lives under the directions of such teachers.
What Madhudvisa Prabhu had said regarding the husband and wife in Krishna consciousness are permitted to unite for the purpose of conceiving a child is simply a restatement of the point made in the scripture and given by our founder-acarya, Srila Prabhupada.
Once a month, several days after the start of the menstrual cycle of the wife; chant 50 rounds on that day; for the purpose of getting a Krishna conscious child, etc.
The whole aim is for setting the right consciousness for the living being who will be sent to the womb, and for us to realise that material life is not our natural life and is troublesome.
Of course, giving the child the opportunity to grow in Krishna consciousness as you suggested is excellent, but the nature of the child, that we are inviting to the womb is a science – technically known as garbhadhana samskara..
So, yes.. we have the right to follow or not to follow..but clearly stating the Vedic stipulations should not be taken as a compulsion to others.. those who wish to follow the Vedic culture have the right to know what has been laid down by the Lord and His representative. Our preference to follow or not to follow should not be made as the standard…. it is the lack of education of this that makes people think it’s an impersonal process.. it’s not an impersonal process.. but it’s not based on lust.. it’s based on love for the Lord and His pure devotee..
It’s interesting you mention the advice of doctors because modern medical science is second guessing half of the time. If you ask them about karma, there is hardly a clue. And the process of begetting children is closely related to that..
I hope you would consider these points, if you like; and if not, just ignore this post.
Thank you and warm regards. Congratulations on the birth of your son, and kind regards.
yours in service,
sakshi-gopal das
lord krishna is the spoken power,listening power,phisecal and intangival power of woprld krishna is seeing always human works if human do good work aswellas help needy human or animal or tresure of nature then he rewarded in the krishna’s court and prize name is heaven
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa,
AGTSP
You wrote above: “A husband and wife in Krishna consciousness are only permitted to have sex for conceiving a child and then only once in a month at the time that is most likely for the conception to take place.”
This is very debatable subject and not accurately true.
For anyone close to medical science will know that in MOST cases it takes more frequent sex relations to conceive.
Ovulation in females isnt something that is easy to track every month at the so called “probable day of fertility” . It might be days before or days after the famous “12 to 14 days after the cycle” , and even then it often varies from month to month.
In case of me and my husband for example…We are both healthy and fertile but we didnt get so desired child ( even the sex life was a bit more frequent that one month at a specific day) , till the last year when doctors said we should simply have sex every 48 hours from 8 to 20 day of cycle. In most cases pregnancy occures when last expected and thats interesting phenomen .
And they emphasised psychology factor of stress for conceiving when people have sex with only one in mind – To get pregnant , and how contra-productive it can be. Better effect would is dont stress over conception and simply ENJOY the moment.
In my case , 6 months after practicing the doctors advice and put the dates mostly aside i got pregnant and last month we got a healthy baby boy.
One the most important thing in that boy’s life is that he will have KC to be offered to him as a wonderful life option , but not forced. We all choose for ourself ,so to prematurely say that we have sex ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to have KC children is a bit too much , for we never know what our kids are going to be after all.
P.S.
Im not here advocating free sex love . Though i personally think there must be a line where someone else can tell you what to in bed (as long as you dont live in bramacari ashram but with your family ) .
The thing is that i am trying to reach the point that there is many devotees couple who desire a child and who desperately want to follow the regulation about their PRIVATE life. They dont need to have medical knowledge, and all they know is maybe what they heard from devotees about how to lead their married life. Very sad is to know that some of them could end up to think that they are barren , that they cant have children , and give up. Believe it or not , those cases exist, for i personally know one couple and im sure they are not the only one . If they only seeked some medical help or consulted a specialist ….
For the end of my post :
Krishna gave us the tools for making children ,and its not something official without intimacy and care ,it should never be like you think of your dinner when you make love to your partner just to avoid to enjoy ..
If we could only learn how to transfer our thoughts like this when hate comes to out mind , not love.
If we only stick up to other things mentioned few times in sastra that are far more important .
Great enough is if we are monogamous and that we have regulated relations within each other only . Better we dont destroy love and intimacy for the sake of learned aversion and official touch in marrieage. its not what ISKCON needs as a society at this time , and some leaders already started to see it already.
ys
Devi dasi
Hare Kridhna,
Thanks for your news letters, I am 59yrs old and lost my wife two and half yrs back due to breast cancer. After that i started looking for a companion in life. But could not suceed into it. Then i started to do Krishna Bhakti. I do daily 16rounds of krihna chants. But still mt mind id not sarisfied by life . I want to join ISCON society to serve the God by living in some Ashram. Can you guide me in this matter.
Hare Krishna,
Girdhar Gurha
Im trying to follow krishna conscious but do not feel that Im progressing enough at the moment Im not chanting enough and not rising early in the mornings Im a little more inspired now after reading some articles on the internet but Im also in a dilema about spiritual life and material life I would look forward to having a wfe in future for female company and regulated sex but now I realise this is material thinking and it should be avoided and I should be more determined towards celibacy
Hare Krishna Lee
At the moment you are a single man so you should practice brahmacary, celebacy. But some time in the future you may get married and have a wife and family. There is nothing wrong with this. If you can avoid it and remain brahmacary that is better, but if you have the desire for a wife and family and that desire remains even though you are seriously practising Krishna consciousness, then it is better to find a nice devotee wife and have a family. Otherwise if you make a false show of renunciation then you will fall down from this some time in the future as we see happening with so many gurus and swamis.
But for the time being you should try seriously from Brahmacary, that is for every young man, even if in the future you may get married. If you have been a strong Brahmacary then there is a much better chance that you will be able to regulate sex in married life. Krishna conscious married life is also a sort of Brahmacary. Because marriage in Krishna consciousness is not for sex. A husband and wife in Krishna consciousness are only permitted to have sex for conceiving a child and then only once in a month at the time that is most likely for the conception to take place.
Marriage in Krishna consciousness is for raising nice God-conscious children and to give protection to the devotee women and to give the devotee men the family life they desire in a Krishna conscious way. It is not about sex and it is not maya.
To progress in the beginning you have to perform austerity. It means that even though you don’t feel like getting out of bed early in the morning you have to decide to do it. You need to convince yourself of the importance of getting out of bed early in the morning [I suggest you try for 3:30 AM, not later than this] and get a loud alarm clock and set it so it rings and get up in the morning when it rings and take bath and start chanting Hare Krishna maha mantra. If you get up at 3:30 you can chant all your 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra and do some reading and have all this done by the time most of the people are still getting up.
It is just a habit you need to train yourself to follow. If you go to bed at 9:00 PM and get up at 3:30 AM that is 6.5 hours, more than enough sleep for anyone.
Without performing some austerity like this you will never really make much tangible advancement or get any real taste for Krishna consciousness. Krishna sees how sincere we are. He knows if we actually want to surrender to Him and serve Him, or if we just want to make a show. And he will reciprocate with us accordingly. So we have to become serious.
But the real thing is we need to approach Krishna through His pure devotee. So don’t try to approach Krishna directly. We need to worship and serve Krishna’s pure devotee, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, because if we please Srila Prabhuapda, Krishna will be pleased. So please make a very determined plan to read all of Srila Prabhupada’s books and try to put the things you hear from Srila Prabhuapda into practice in your day-to-day life. In this way you will very quickly make advancement in spiritual life and you will gradually understand what Krishna wants you do do with your life for Him…
Now you should be determined to practice brahmacary and avoid female association as far as possible. And in the future, as you advance more in Krishna consciousness, you will understand what to do in this regard.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
\
Hare Krishna Prabhu jee,
Out of these four regulative principles are: no illicit sex life [this means sex only in marriage and then only for the purpose of having a Krishna conscious child], no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication. In addition we must agree to chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra daily.
Three can be accepted by any true devotee but if he is married its will be very challenging to have sex only for the purpose of having a Krishna conscious child.
Hare Krishna!
Hare Krishna Prabhu,
PAMHO. AGTSP. Thank you kindly for this. We have to stand up for the truth and it’s very clear what Srila Prabhupada has written. It’s sad that things are degenerating so much. And the root is our following the process Srila Prabhupada has given.
Once again, thank you very much for this.
Your servant,
sakshi-gopal das
Excellent write, Prabhu.
One submissive reply,though, there’s room for interpretation on Maharaja Hrydananda’s statement and inferences seem there, yet if “celebacy” were added, aspects of his opinion may be functional.
your servant, ccd
KRUSHNA NAME ONLY MAKE ALL THE PEOPLE HYPNOTISED. SO MANY AUTHOR WROTE ABOUT KRUSHNA AND IN ALL THE BOOKS WE FIND NEW. EVEN KRUSHNA’S EVERY WORD IN GITA WE MEET NEW KRUSHNA.
Loard Krushna is the Real Hero of the world. Coz of KRUSHNA three questions were came in my mind and my heart after then my spiritual journey was started.
These questions are
WHO I AM?
WHY I AM?
WHERE I AM?
Jai Prabhupada !
I find it incredible that you can clarify and write so much on any subject, Madhudvisa dasa. I wonder how “GALVA” reacts to this. How can they argue ? They can’t.
P.S. Can you recommend a Manusmriti pdf file i can download ?
Hare Krsna !
I was wandering around the internet when I found this Website, and I’m wondering if I misunderstood something: Does this text say that you should not engage in love marriage, but only in a marrige that is capable of having children (is adoption therefore included to? for some people are naturaly impotent :/)?
and is loving someone forbidden? for it is a natural feeling that you find all over the world ..
because as a single gay man myself i do not want to engage in a wedding solely for the sex
but to not die alone when all my friends are old and die like leaf in autumn, for the purpose of having someone who understands me and tolerates my mistakes for i want to present him with the same gift,
and sharing our paths in this life for as long as it endures
Hare Krishna Andreas
If one wants to become Krishna conscious he has to first realize that he is not the material body and the so-called pleasures and pains of the material body have actually nothing to do with him. The most entangling thing, the thing that keeps one trapped in the bodily concept of life more than anything else is sex. This is the most bewildering thing. So a transcendentalist gives up this sex life except for having children in marriage. This is a prerequisite for any type of spiritual advancement. So if you are not prepared to give up sex except for in marriage and then only for having children then you will not be able to become Krishna conscious. So you can keep on doing it of course, but you have to know that this sex will perpetually trap you in material consciousness, in the material world, and will ensure that you remain trapped in the cycle of birth and death for ever. There will be no spiritual life for you. So it is your choice.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Dear Madhuvisa Dasa,
Sorry I went out town for week. I wasn’t trying to ignore you. Thank you so
much for sending me out some news letter. I really enjoyed reading them
You know I never knew what Dharma meant until now. It was the news letter
you sent on Sunday March 1st. Thanks so much for keeping me informed.
All Glories To You,
Raquel