Srila Prabhupada’s July 9th. Letter.
An important point is that Srila Prabhupada’s final written instruction on initiations is a system whereby new devotees are initiated by a ritvik priest on his (Srila Prabhupada’s) behalf. Many new devotees are not aware of this nor have they read the letter that Prabhupada sent out to all temples on July 9th 1977. This letter very clearly states that henceforward all new devotees would be initiated in this way.
The GBC argue that the ritvik system was a temporary measure Prabhupada put in place until he left his body. If this is the case then why didn’t Srila Prabhupada issue any other instructions on this point? Surely His Divine Grace would have had the foresight to clarify the most important issue facing the devotees following his departure.
Srila Prabhupada would certainly have put something in writing to the effect of “After I leave my body my disciples can become diksa gurus.” But no such quote or reference can be found in ANY of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings.
Actually when he refers to becoming a guru it is almost always in the sense of becoming a ‘siksa’ or instructing guru. See the purport to the ‘amara ajnaya guru haya tara ei desa’ verse in CC. Prabhupada actually says it is best NOT TO ACCEPT ANY DISCIPLES but rather to simply repeat the words of Sri Krishna in Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. On the few occasions when Srila Prabhupada speaks of his disciples becoming diksha gurus it is coupled with the phrase “on my order . . . ”
From what i have seen most new devotees are happy to accept the party line – whatever the leaders tell them they accept. They quickly label ‘ritviks’ as demons and believe that Prabhupada intended for his disciples to become diksha gurus following his departure.
It is unfortunate that most have not read Srila Prabhupada’s actual instructions on this matter. He says that all his leading disciples should become ‘ritvik acharyas’ and initiate devotees on his behalf. There is no time factor mentioned in this letter – in other words it is not described as a temporary measure to be instituted until Prabhupada’s departure.
Hare Krishna
Sudama dasa
Letter to: All G.B.C., All Temple Presidents
—
Vrindaban
9 July, 1977
To All G.B.C., and Temple Presidents
Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances at your feet. Recently when all of the GBC members were with His Divine Grace in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada indicated that soon He would appoint some of His senior disciples to act as “ritvik–representative of the acarya, for the purpose of performing initiations, both first initiation and second initiation.
His Divine Grace has so far given a list of eleven disciples who will act in that capacity:
- His Holiness Kirtanananda Swami
- His Holiness Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami
- His Holiness Jayapataka Swami
- His Holiness Tamala Krsna Gosvami
- His Holiness Hrdayananda Gosvami
- His Holiness Bhavananda Gosvami
- His Holiness Hamsaduta Swami
- His Holiness Ramesvara Swami
- His Holiness Harikesa Swami
- His Grace Bhagavan dasa Adhikari
- His Grace Jayatirtha dasa Adhikari
In the past Temple Presidents have written to Srila Prabhupada recommending a particular devotee’s initiation. Now that Srila Prabhupada has named these representatives, Temple Presidents may henceforward send recommendation for first and second initiation to whichever of these eleven representatives are nearest their temple. After considering the recommendation, these representatives may accept the devotee as an initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada by giving a spiritual name, or in the case of second initiation, by chanting on the Gayatri thread, just as Srila Prabhupada has done. The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupad, the above eleven senior devotees acting as His representative. After the Temple President receives a letter from these representatives giving the spiritual name or the thread, he can perform the fire yajna in the temple as was being done before. The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book.
Hoping this finds you all well.
Your servant,
Tamala Krsna Gosvami
Approved: A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
[Srila Prabhupada’s signature appears on the original]
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Hare Krishna,
Not Srila Prabhupada,all scriptures says, even Bhagvad Gita says, Evam parampara prapta,
So divine message has to come in Lineage.
There should be Guru ,Physically present on Earth, to give initiation!!
If this would have been scenario, Srila Prabhupada would have taken Sannyas Diksha by Keeping Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Sarswati Maharaj ji Picture, As Bhakti Siddhanta Sarswati Maharaj ji did by Keeping Gaur Kishore Das Babaji picture.
But Srila Prabhupada ji personally took Sannyas Diksha in Mathura.
This is sufficient enough to understand what message Srila Prabhupada gave.
There are so many References Where SRILA PRABHUPADA in His lectures and Purports mentioned that.
Don’t follow Ardh kukut Nyay!!!
Whatever you feel good you will accept and reject other.
Accept the things in totality.
Guru is not always available. Like now. So when there is no guru available then we have to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada is available. Srila Prabhupada is still living. You just reed to realize that.
Every class, kirtan, lecture, morning walk, is recorded. You can go to all these Prabhupada classes. You can be in all these Praabhupada kirtans. And Prabhupada’s books. 80+ books you can spend your whole life intimately personally associating with Srila Prabhupada by reading his books.
So there is guru present now. You just have to realize and take advantage.
If, instead, you find some demon posing as a guru who is physically present and take initiation from him out of frustration because you can’t find a real guru, you will go to hell with him. That is the sad truth.
Real guru is self-effulgent. You will see him and realize he is a real guru and so will everyone else. Like EVERYONE knows Srila Prabhupada is a real guru. There is no question. Prabhupada is shining like the sun. He is self-effulgent, there is no doubt, no question. That is real guru.
Indian man: If one has accepted a bona fide spiritual master and he did not receive much knowledge from him, can he change his spiritual master at later…
Prabhupada: A bona fide spiritual master, where is the necessity of changing?
Indian man: No, he has not got the knowledge from him, but can I change…?
Prabhupada: No, no. Bona fide spiritual means he must get knowledge. He must get knowledge. He must inquire from the… The student must inquire from the spiritual master. If he remains dumb, then what bona fide spiritual master can do? Adau gurv- asrayam sad-dharma-pricchat, jijnasuh. He must be jijnasuh. He must be jijnasuh. We get so many letters daily. So many inquiries. The student must be very inquisitive. Otherwise how he shall make progress? If he remains dumb, then what the bona fide spiritual master can do? If you go to a very nice school but if you do not study, if you do not inquire, then what is the use of going to the nice school? You must be also very alert to inquire, to understand, to make progress. Then it will be all right. If you do not utilize the benefit of having a bona fide spiritual master, then that is your fault. You must utilize the opportunity. We are publishing so many books, so many literatures, magazines. Why? Just to enlighten more and more. But if you don’t take advantage of this, then how can you make progress? Change of spiritual master requires when the spiritual master is not bona fide. Otherwise there is no necessity of changing.
Indian lady: How does one contact the spiritual master? Through a book can you contact the spiritual master?
Prabhupada: No, you have to associate.
Syamasundara: “Can you associate through a book?” she asked.
Prabhupada: Yes, through books, and also personal. Because when you make a spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive.
English man: If the spiritual master, Prabhupada, worships God through a demigod, is he bona fide?
Prabhupada: No. He does not know how to worship. How he can be bona fide? Krishna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam. Why he should go to the demigods? That means he has no knowledge. Krishna says, mam ekam. Why should you go to others? That means he’s insufficiently qualified. Why should you go to the demigods? What is the necessity? He’s not bona fide. Because he has insufficient knowledge. Bona fide spiritual must be sufficiently knowledge. Krishna says, mam ekam; God says, mam ekam. Why he should go to demigods? That is his proof that he’s not bona fide.
Devotee: If one accepts initiation from a bona fide spiritual master but continues to perform material activities, are they still bound by the karma?
Prabhupada: He has to do everything under the instruction of the spiritual master. That is his duty. Sishya. Sishya means who voluntarily accepts disciplinary measures from the spiritual master. He’s ruled by the spiritual master.
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. 23rd September 1969. Appearance Day lecture of His Divine Grace Shrila Sac Cid Ananda Bhaktivinod Thakur Prabhupada. London.)
Hare Krishna Prabhuji
PAMHO…
But Prabhupada sent that letter when he was in this world… At that time he appointed some of his senior disciples as his representative, as it was impossible for him to be physically present everywhere
Nowhere Prabhupada mentioned that ritvik process will go on after he leaves his body
Ritvik is the only process of initiation that Prabhupada ever mentioned would go on in ISKCON after he left his body. Prabhupada only appointed “Ritvik representatives of the acarya” in the July 9th letter, it is very, very clear that the disciples are Prabhupada’s disciples and the ritvik representatives of the acarya are acting on his behalf and accepting his disciples.
The July 9th letter is a result of a converstaion started by Satsvatrupa with the question, “We want to ask you Prabhupada about initiations, particularly when you are no longer physically present.” So July 9th letter was particularly composed to describe the process of initiation in ISKCON when Prabhupada was no longer physically present.
That is the whole point of ritvik initiation, to enable Prabhupada to accept disciples when he is no longer physically present…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Did no one read this in 1977?
Actually this letter appears to have been hidden from the devotees in 1977.
It was supposed to be sent to all GBCs and Temple Presidents. That was Prabhupada’s order. But somehow it got lost and the devotees did not see it in 1977 unfortunately…
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa dasa prabhu
Please accept my feeble attempt at offering you my obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace, Srila Prabhupada. This situation is so unfortunate. I am currently staying in temple ashram and I don’t know whether to stay or leave because of this issue. Also when we go on book distribution we don’t distribute Prabhupadas original books. Ive brought it up before to senior devotees, direct disciples of Srila Prabhupada and they always say the same thing, basically “The old books were full of errors, so editors are just bringing them closer to what Srila Prabhupada would have wanted”. I’m not sure if this is correct due to so maany changes. How would they know what Srila Prabhupada would have wanted if hes not physically present to approve such changes? Most devotees are careful to associate with me, especially the newer ones because they know about my views on ritvik and book changes, so they are always trying to tell me that the current way of ISKCON is the way Srila Prabhupada wants it and the way I see things is a polluted understanding but I’m not so sure because of so much evidence pointing to the contrary. I just want to associate with devotees who have similar mentalities and I cant find that much here in the temple I am currently at. Do you know of any ritvik ashram in LA? I am anxious to serve Srila Prabhupada in a way that would please him absolutely, in the association of those devotees who know the truth.
Hare Krishna Bhakta Sky
The problem is over the years the ritvik devotees have tried to start many temples but almost all of them have failed. Generally they can not work together. It is a very difficult situation we all find ourselves in. As far as the book changes it is obvious Srila Prabhupada forbid such changes and would never approve of what the BBT has done with and continues to do with his books.
The truth is in Prabhupada’s books. We need to read them and find the truth there. That is the real point. We need to hear from Srila Prabhupada through reading his books and follow the instructions he gives us as we read his books. The idea is we have to become constantly engaged in serving Srila Prabhupada according to his instructions and in reality that may put us at odds with many so-called ‘devotees’ in ISKCON and out of ISKCON.
So my suggestion is that you just concentrate on becoming a pure devotee of Krishna yourself. Very strictly follow the four regulative principles, chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day and read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day. In this way your consciousness will become purified, you will be able to perceive that Krishna is present in your heart and that Srila Prabhupada is present in his books and you will be able to take the guidance from Srila Prabhupada and Krishna and in this way you will know what to do in any difficult circumstances.
The main thing is we have to be engaged in devotional service ourselves. Chanting Hare Krishna is a prayer to Krishna, “Krishna please engage me in Your service.” So we have to use our body, our mind, our money, our everything in the service of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. Srila Prabhupada was always very careful to see that all the devotees were constantly engaged in Krishna consciousness. Because an idle mind is the devil’s workshop. So we have to organize our lives so we are always engaged in serving Srila Prabhupada and Krishna 24 hours a day…
There is nothing stopping us from being fully engaged in Krishna consciousness and if we are fully engaged in Krishna consciousness we will be able to clearly understand what is the correct position on all these issues.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare Krishna Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances, All glories to srila Prabhupada.
Prabhu now ISKCON Bengaluru group is following the Ritvik System as per the direction of Srila Prabhupada As It Is. Now all over india the ISKCON Bengaluru group is spreading the teaching and original book of Srila Prabhupa by a new institution name “HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT”. all over india almost in evry state there is one center is there. and now in abroad also there are some temples are opening. and for more details you can check the ISKCON Bengalure group site on google.
Your servant
Satvata priya dasa
srila prabhupad never signed such letter, it was by tamaal only, just to authenticate the letter he said signed by srila prabhupad.
there was never any original letter in existence with the original signature on it of srila prabhupad. no one saw n now one can show the original signature, all shows that printed signature only🤣.
Hare Krishna Prabhu
July 9th letter is a record of Prabhupada’s July 7th conversation. It is not TKG’s letter. He has simply written down what Prabhupada instructed him to write down in July 7th conversation:
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jul/s/vrndavana/july/07/1977-1
So it is Prabhupada’s, not Tamal’s.
You have to understand Prabhu that Prabhupada’s ritvik initiation system in ISKCON started in the early 1970’s. It became impractical for Prabhupada to physically initiate all the disciples he was making all over the world.
The original system is the Temple President would write to Srila Prabhupada recommending a devotee for initiation. So TP would say disciple has been serving in the temple for 6 or 12 months and regularly following the principles and attending mangal-aroti and going out daily on the Sankirtan party, etc. And, on the TP’s recommendation, Prabhupada would accept him as his disciple. But the actual initiation ceremony would be performed in the local temple by a ritvik priest on behalf of Prabhupada. Prabhupada was not physically initiating, a priest was doing the initiation on behalf of Prabhupada. From at least 1970, if not before.
Of course there were initiations performed personally by Prabhuapda also. But in many cases, most cases in the later years, Prabhupada’s disciples in ISKCON were initiated by ritvik priests on his behalf.
This was always the system in ISKCON, ritvik, priests initiating Prabhupada’s disciples on his behalf.
In the beginning Prabhupada would, upon receiving the letter from the TP, chant on his new disciple’s beads and mail the beads to the temple and then initiation was performed by the ritvik priest. But this chanting on all the beads and mailing them became too much, so Prabhuapda delegated the ritvik priests to chant on the beads also on his behalf, this was early 1970’s.
Then gradually as time went on most of Prabhupada’s disciples in ISKCON were initiated by ritvik priests in this way.
So July 9th letter is not introducing anything new. It is simply extending the existing ritvik system so it could continue without the physical presence of Srila Prabhupada.
acc
Up to July 9th letter the TP still had to write a letter to Prabhupada and Prabhupada would reply accepting the disciples.
But in July 9th Prabhupada delegated this to the ritviks also. There was no longer any need to write to Prabhupada, letter could be sent to the ritvik representative and he could accept the disciple on behalf of Srila Prabhupada.
So that is all July 9th letter does. It simply extends the existing ritvik intitiation system that was current in ISKCON from around 1970 so that it no longer required any physical presence of Srila Prabhupada.
So the idea was that this same system would continue after the physical departure of Srila Prabhupada.
Hare Krsna
I accept the rtvik order as given by Srla Prabhupada, it is a settled fact, accepting a guru today is a high risk, something devotees who came in the earlier days won’t experience because there was Srila Prabhupada for all, so nowadays the choice of a guru is as good as a gamble. By the way at the Durban Ratha Yatra two weeks ago Jayadvaita Swami told a devotee that rtvik devotees are not against Iskcon, so I told that devotee that Jayadvaita Swami should give that in a written statement and print it in the BTG magazine. It is surprising since Jayadvaita Swami presented Plain Vanilla…now melting.
Balgopal das Durban South africa
why are you not accepting that no one ever saw that original letter with original signature of srila prabhupad on it🤣
because you don’t want to take shelter of a living sadhu
What is this rubbish?
Anyone can see the original July 9th letter with Prabhupada’s signature on it.
https://krishna.org/srila-prabhupadas-july-9th-letter/
Your statement is rubbish. Not only do we have July 9th letter signed by Srila Prabhupada, the original letter is in Bhaktivedanta Archives and they provide the authorized, verified transcript and the actual scan of the letter. All the letters were also photographed onto microfiche and many copies were made and we have seen it on the microfiche also. So there is ABSOOLUTELY NO QUESTION. July 9th letter is signed by Srila Prabhupada. Yes. It is written by Tamal Krishna but he was acting as Srila Prabhupada’s secretary at the time, so he simply typed up a summary of Prabhupada’s July 5th conversation, which have the audio recording of…
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jul/s/vrndavana/july/07/1977-1
And, if we want to actually research the matter there is also a letter from TKG written to Ramesvara Prabhu about the July 9th letter where he passes on Srila Prabhupada’s instruction that Ramesvara was to duplicate the July 9th letter and send it to all ISKCON Temple Presidents worldwide.
first learn what is the difference between original letter with original signature on it n print of the letter n print of signature 😂. show us the original letter 😂
Hare Krishna Vicky
Don’t be silly. I provided you with a photographic copy of the original July 9th letter. No one questions it’s authority. And the original letter does exist in the Bhaktivedanta Archives in North Carolina USA. You can go there and look at the original letter yourself and verify it.
So there is no question. This is the original July 9th letter and it is signed by Prabhupada and it is simply the conclusions of a meeting Srila Prabhupada had with Tamal Krishna and others on July 7th:
https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jul/s/vrndavana/july/07/1977-1
And we have that audio recording and you can listen to Prabhupada describe the contents of the July 9th letter…
So there is no question, July 9th letter is authentic. You can put this idea to rest.
And July 9th letter plays a pivotal role in the bogus ISKCON guru system.
July 9th letter was used by ISKCON as the “Appointment Letter” for the Zonal Acharyas. This is the letter that ISKCON claims is Prabhupada appointing successors, 11 new Prabhupadas… Of course it is nothing of the sort, it is just Prabhupada appointing ritviks to perform initiation ceremonies on his behalf.
This is just extending the current ritvik system that was already the way Prabhupada accepted most of his diciples from at least 1972 on. So from 1972 at least 75% of initiations in ISKCON were ritvik. Priests performing the ceremony on Srila Prabhupada’s behlaf.
But they still had to send a recommendation letter to Prabhupada first and get a reply before they could initiate on Prabhupada’s behalf.
All the July 9th letter is doing is removing this requirement. Now the ritviks did not have to send the letter to Prabhupada.
So July 9th letter is the final link in the chain that enables Prabhupada to accept disciples in ISKCON without it requiring any physical input on his behalf. Meaning that the system could continue after his physical presence.
And this was the idea about what would happen in the future, when Prabhupada was no longer physically present, at least at that time, July 7-9…
Hare Krishna Vicky
Prabhu what on earth would be the point of “taking shelter of a living sadhu”.
Sadhu, that is a very loose term indeed. You would accept the ganga smoking Lord Shiva worshipping person as a “sadhu”. So one would not get any spiritual benefit at all of taking shelter of a “sadhu….”
Prabhu you need to understand Krishna Consciousness 101… The basic point of Krishna consciousness, the way it works, is you have to accept a self-realized pure devotee of Krishna as your spiritual master. The bound can not free the bound, the rescuerer must be liberated.
So you need to find an actual liberated pure devotee of Krishna who is on the topmost, uttama-adhikari platform. He is the only one who can guide you, teach you, instruct you, so you can also come to that platform of pure love for Krishna.
This is a very basic point.
And today in ISKCON there is no guru who is surrendered to Prabhupada and Krishna, you ask any ISKCON guru, “Who is your authority?” They will say, if they are honest, “My authority is the GBC. It is the GBC’s guidelines I must follow when I am preaching, it is the GBC orders I must follow, and if I disobey the GBC, then they will take away my guru license and give all my disciples to someone else.”
a
So this is not guru. The GBC is just a bunch of conditioned souls making bogus rules and regulations that contradict Krishna’s teachings in Bhagavad-gita and Srila Prabhuapda’s instructions. And all ISKCON gurus are bound to surrender to and follow the GBC…
So the point is Prabhupada is the only qualified pure devotee of Krishna we have access to. Sure, if there is another actual liberated pure devotee of Krishna, first class, uttama adhikari devotee, you can take initiation from him and he may be able to guide you back home back to Godhead. But I have never seen such a person. And, like Prabhupada, Vaisnava Acharya is self-effulgent like the sun. We would see him, if he was preaching… No one could not see Prabhupada when he was preaching.
So if another qualified guru comes along, don’t worry we will see him.
But there is no other qualified guru except Srila Prabhupada at the current time so your only hope of becoming Krishna conscious is to surrender to Prabhupada.
But the reality is most in the material world don’t want a real guru. They want a cheating guru. This cheating guru business is a great business, and if you are a cheater, then there are thousands of “sadhus” who will be more than happy to initiate you and take your money and you and your sadhu “guru” will go to hell together.
It seems to be only for the time when Srila Prabhupada was alive. How can “The name of a newly initiated disciple should be sent by the representative who has accepted him or her to Srila Prabhupada, to be included in His Divine Grace’s “Initiated Disciples” book”. How can “the name of a newly initiated disciple” be sent to Srila Prabhupada after his departure?
The book was held by his secretary, at that time Tamal Krishna Goswami. It was his secretary who includes the name into this book.