The Moon and the Sun…
Srila Prabhupada has the strength to have complete faith in Krishna, in his spiritual master and in the Vedas. That is his unique qualification. Unfortunately most so-called devotees of Krishna today prefer to put their faith in the theories of modern science, rejecting the Vedic version. Such devotees have no faith and will never be able to understand the real imports of the Vedic knowledge as this requires absolute faith in the Lord and the bona fide spiritual master.
Modern “science” can never give us perfect knowledge. For it is a result of imperfect information observed through the imperfect senses of “scientists” who all have the tendency to cheat and make mistakes and are illusioned [they accept so many things to be facts which are not facts at all]. So no perfect knowledge can come from such scientists.
Of course the “scientists” put on a grand show and try to convince us they know everything about how the universe works. If you ask them any question they have an answer ready… They give the impression that they know everything. But when one closely analyses any field of science one finds nothing is really very “scientific” at all. There are still so many unanswered questions and contradictions.
One big problem with science is every scientist comes up with his own idea, his own theory and sets about to prove it. That is called the hypothesis, then, according to the “scientific method,” one must prove it or disprove the hypothesis by observation and experimentation. In the process the tendency is for the scientist to ignore everything except the evidence that supports his hypothesis. So much evidence gets ignored or suppressed in this way.
The world of “science” is limited by the theories of the scientists. If the “scientists” can not imagine something then there is no way this so-called “scientific method” can ever discover it.
From the Vedas we know many things about this universe–and what to speak of the spiritual world–are beyond the ability of or minds to imagine and beyond the ability of our senses to perceive. So all this knowledge is forever unattainable by the so-called “scientific method.”
Thanks to Srila Prabhupada we know that many of the basic fundamental principles of modern science are completely wrong. The whole philosophy of science is based on the assumption that everything can be explained by studying four of the material elements [earth, water, fire and air] but this assumption is completely flawed. Modern “science” is completely ignorant of ether, mind, intelligence, false ego and of course the soul and the supersoul.
Modern “science” is something like studying a motor car engine to try and work out how the motor car knows how to get to its destination… Actually the motor car engine has no way at all of getting to the destination. It is the driver who is controlling it and directing it who knows how to get to the destination. But modern science refuses to accept that there is any driver at all in either the individual bodies or in the universal body. They can not see the driver in the motor car and so try to explain all the complex workings and movements of the car by studying the mechanics of the car… Without even knowing that the driver exists…
Modern “science” is childish, it is foolish. They are fools and rascals and we should stand up and tell everyone that the so-called modern scientists are nothing but fools, asses and rascals as Srila Prabhupada quite fearlessly did.
But very few devotees seem to have faith in Prabhupada and the Vedas these days… They seem to have more faith in the scientists… Maya is very strong…
So there is so much evidence to support the Vedic history of the world and the Vedic understanding of the universe but no one is really very interested in proving the Vedic history of the world or the universe is correct therefore the evidence mostly gets ignored or swept under the carpet.
Sadaputa Prabhu did come up with a nice presentation on this point, he called it “knowledge filtering.” Science only accepts “knowledge” if it fits in with their understanding of the world, otherwise they reject it. So when the Vedas describes a very advanced civilization that existed hundreds of thousands of years ago, even millions of years ago, they can not accept it. Even when they find the proof of it they still refuse to accept it. It is unthinkable to them. It completely contradicts the world–as they know it. But, little do they know, the real world, the real universe, is not at all like the world they have imagined and the world that all their scientific theories describe.
Modern “science” has created an imaginary world where there is no soul, there is no need for any higher intelligence, a world where everything can be explained by the chance interaction of material elements. A world where the life force does not exist at all, it is simply a manifestation, a reaction from a certain chance chemical combination… and if we give them information about the real world they can not accept it… They will not accept it.
Their whole world is evolution. Evolution is the most fundamental belief that practically all of today’s science is built on. And there is evolution also–but it is the consciousness that evolves or devolves–not the body. All the bodies of all the 8,400,000 species of life are existing–if not in a physical form in a subtle form–and when a particular living entities’ consciousness matches a particular body he is awarded that type of body. But all the individual species exist eternally. It is the individual souls who are evolving and devolving up and down through the different species of life, not that one species is evolving into another species by “natural selection.” That is a completely incorrect theory.
According to the wonderful and insane theory of “modern” evolution somehow magically single-celled creatures appeared by chance–perhaps because of a lightning storm, which also came from nowhere and had no cause… and somehow these single-celled creatures who magically and inexplicably appeared gradually developed, by chance mutations, into more advanced creatures… and after millions of years, completely by chance random mutations, humans were produced, completely by chance with no higher intelligence involved. This modern evolution theory a fairy-tale for adults. It is so far-fetched and so impossible but the “scientists” cling to it as if their very lives depend on it because evolution is the only “logical” way they can explain that we came into existence with no higher intelligence above us… Evolution is the religion of the atheists.
We know that this whole theory is so WRONG. We know the first creature born in this universe was Lord Brahma. He took birth on the lotus flower atop the stem that sprouted from the abdomen of Vishnu. Lord Brahma, the first life in this universe, except for Vishnu, is the MOST evolved creature with the highest intelligence and is greater and more evolved than any other creature in the universe. So the first life was the most evolved creature. Not a single-cell creature at all…
So “science” is so, so wrong. But they love evolution because it enables them to believe that everything happens by chance, that there is no authority, there is no higher intelligence above them. They do not have to surrender to anyone, they do not have to serve anyone. This is the real point of science. To provide a world-view where there is no necessity for a God or any form of higher intelligence.
That way humans are at the top of the ladder and the most powerful, and free to do as we like… But it is all wrong, so terribly wrong…
The Vedic view of the universe is correct and the so-called scientific view is incorrect. There are so many issues here and I have explored them in some detail and know the Vedic view of the universe presents a model of the workings of the universe which perfectly predicts all the observations we can make. It predicts the movement of the planets, the stars, the constellations, the sun, the moon, the changing seasons, the changing length of the days and nights, the solar and Luna eclipses, etc.
Everything is perfectly predicted.
Let us not forget since the beginning of time this Vedic model of the universe has been used and the Vedic culture has had such advanced astronomical and astrological information which Western science has only discovered in the past 80 years.
The Vedas are books of scientific knowledge. Everything in them is correct including the descriptions of the workings of the universe in Srimad-Bhagavatam. However the real workings of the universe may be completely different from the way modern science has imagined them to be.
Our position is something like that of a tiny ant stuck in one small corner of a huge machine of great complexity. We can not move out of our tiny corner and we can only see a very small part of a couple of small pieces of the great machine and a few flashing lights moving in the distance. How, stuck in that tiny corner, can we ever understand the workings of that machine?
We could speculate for millions of years but it would not help. We can not see what is going on and we can not see how the machine is working or what is making it work. These things are simply beyond the power of our senses to perceive. We can never understand the universe in this way.
The only way we could ever understand how the universe is working is if we could get that information from someone who actually knows how the universe is working.
Fortunately Narada Muni, the spiritual master of Srila Vyasadeva, the father of Sukadeva Gosvami, who spoke the Srimad-Bhagavatam, is not like us. Srila Narada Muni is a transcendental spaceman, he can, at his will, immediately travel to any place in the universe and even to the spiritual world. So he has the ability of seeing the universe from every angle of vision therefore he can describe how the universe is working as he has seen how it is working.
Sukadeva Goswami has got this information of how the universe is moving from Narada Muni in the disciplic succession and although he may not have personally seen it with his eyes he has seen it through the disciplic succession. That is real seeing. Real seeing is done with the ears by hearing from the bona fide spiritual master. This type of seeing is perfect. We should see through the eyes of the sastra, not through the imperfect mundane eyes of modern so-called science.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
About the Author
Madhudvisa dasa My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna." I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can. That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental! That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!
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Hare Krishna Prabhu
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Today is Makar-sankranti (the day when the Sun starts its journey on the north side of Manasottara mountain.) Is Meru Mountain situated on the north side of Manasottara Mountain? It is said that when the Sun moves on the northern side, of the Manasottara mountain, it is day time for the demigods and when it moves on the southern side, it is night for them. And they are on all four sides of Meru mountain. Indra in East, Yamaraj in the South, Vayu in the West and Chandra on the north. What is the correct position of these two mountains that causes day and night on demigod planets due to movement of Sun on north and south sides respectively. Please explain Prabhu. I want to understand science from Shrimad Bhagavatam and so it will be very helpful if you also guide me through your realisations.
Hare Krishna Aman Prabhu
That is a big question Prabhu, if anyone knew the answer to this question we could build the Vedic planetarium that Srila Prabhupada wants us to build.
Everything is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, particularly Fifth Canto, but all cantos really, there is information about the structure and workings of the universe.
So I have read it many times. I have some realizations, as much as anyone else I guess. But I still am completely confused by it. I can not comprehend completely how it works at all. So if you read it Prabhu and have some practical realizations please share them with me.
It can not be explained in a few paragraphs at all. It is a very big subject matter and requires realization.
Manasottara mountain is a circular mountain on one of the outer circular rings that make up Bhu Mandala, the greater Earth plane. Sun God has a chariot with one wheel and an axle with two parts. So one part of the sun god’s chariot’s axle is resting on Manasottara mountain and this axle rotates once every 24 hours, so it rolls and moves around Mansottara mountain by about 1 degree every day. So that is annual rotational movement that we observe the sun going through. It caused by the movement of the axle of the sun-god’s chariot around Manasottara Mountain.
That axle comes from Manasottara Mountain to Mount Meru and from there there first angle links to a second axle which goes up at a fairly steep angle towards the polestar.
The axle rotates once every 24 hours, because of the movement of the sun-god’s chariot causing the axle to rotate once every 24 hours on Manasottara mountain. So that rotation on the mountain causes this second part of the axle going up steeply from Mt Meru to the polestar to rotate once every 24 hours.
This second axle is the centre of the Sisumara chakra, which is variously described using different analogies like a dolphin swimming in the sky, a coiled snake, am inverted tree, with roots up and branches down, a chandelier, etc. These are all analogies trying to explain how sisumara chakra, the wheel of time, works.
Everything we see rotating in the sky, except the sun, moon and planets, they are all fixed in their positions in relation to this second axle and as that axle rotates once every 24 hours everything rotates with it. The sun, moon and planets are also rotating with the axle but they also have an independent movement. So they are seen in different constellations at different times.
So, to answer your question, the Axle of the sun god’s chariot on Manasottara mountain spends 6 months on the northern half of the mountain and six months on the southern half. So Makar-sankranti is the day when the axle of the sun god’s chariot, and therefore the sun also, enters the northern side on Manasottara Mountain.
It is a very big subject, and not possible to explain satisfactorily here. I am planning to make a model. The most amazing thing is all this talk in ISKCON about building a planetarium, etc. but no one has ever made a model of the universe as it is described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. When I look at what they are doing it seems they have not even read Srimad-Bhagvatam.
So I think this is a very important project and I want to do it, sooner rather than later. So maybe if you give your blessings and pray to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna to give you and me the intelligence to understand it we can do something.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Thank you very much Prabhu.
I can only pray that Srila Prabhupada and Krishna give you the realizations to complete your projects.
Thank you for your blessings Prabhu.
As far as offending the other people, devotee does not care actually what other people think. He simply speaks the absolute truth, and the truth is powerful. It doesn’t matter if the people like it or hate it, it is out responsibility to speak the truth. And the truth is that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we are all servants of Krishna, and the way to reawaken our original consciousness, Krishna consciousness, is simply by chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra:
Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare
The people may love it or hate it but it is the truth and it is our responsibility to tell them the truth. That’s all.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Prabhu, I feel like it is madness to believe that Mars rovers are also faked by NASA because let’s consider they had faked moon mission as they declare that they can’t solve the radiation problem even today .It was during the cold war when they had faked it(if we consider the mission s as fake).But why should these high profile scientist s still continue to fake Mars mission one after another and all other outer space related works of NASA
Hare Krishna Prabhu
They fake it to get money, they get trillions of dollars for these rovers on Mars, etc. Do you think they would not fake it if they couldn’t actually do it? And give up the trillions of dollars and their jobs. No. Of course, if they can’t do it they will fake it. After all no one will know. All they have to do is fake the datafeed from the rover.
So yes Prabhu, after faking the moon, they have gone on faking so many other things.
Actually NASA is a simulation, faking organisation. If you go to their headquarters in Houston for example, as I have, you will see there is NOTHING about building real spacecraft inside these buildings. All their energ, 100%, is in producing simulations. They have huge buildings containing scale models of everything in space, they even have scale models of all the Russian spacecraft. And they have a huge pool for simulating weightlessness. And they have a huge area with simulated moon and mars landscapes, they have a huge green screen film set, the biggest in the world and in so many other ways, they are 100% engaged in simulation. We don’t see any evidence at NASA at all of any actual real effort being put into real space missions. No. Their effort is to simulate space missions.
Hare Krishna Prabhuji.
All Glories To Srila Prabhupada.
In the morning walk Mayapura, March 18, 1976
http://www.prabhupadavani.org/main/Walks/MW175.html
it is said:
“Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, there’s another question I have. I remember on a walk…. I have read in your books that the moon’s glowing is due to reflecting the sun. Then I remember on a walk in Vrndavana you said that the moon is fiery just like the sun, but there’s a cooling atmosphere around it. So is it actually fiery glow, or is it simply a reflecting glow?
Prabhupada: That is stated in Bhagavatam.
Gurudasa: It says reflection in the Bhagavata.
Prabhupada: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.
Tamala Krsna: So it’s not a question of reflection only.
Prabhupada: The reflection theory is the modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Because sometimes in the books it’s stated…
Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.
Tamala Krsna: Just so that people will understand an example. I see.”
But in Bhagavad Gita (http://vedabase.net/bg/10/21/en)it is said :
“Among the stars, the moon is the most prominent at night, and thus the moon represents Kṛṣṇa. It appears from this verse that the moon is one of the stars; therefore the stars that twinkle in the sky also reflect the light of the sun. The theory that there are many suns within the universe is not accepted by Vedic literature. The sun is one, and as by the reflection of the sun the moon illuminates, so also do the stars. Since Bhagavad-gītā indicates herein that the moon is one of the stars, the twinkling stars are not suns but are similar to the moon.”
So, does Bhakativedanta Swami in Bg 10.21 also take up this modern theory of reflection but actually it is not so? In Bg 10.21 he clearly states that the Moon reflects the light of the Sun just like stars. The morning walk says exactly the opposite.
If the Moon is glowing and fiery like the Sun then what does “among the stars I am the moon” mean. The statements from the morning walk and from Bg are contradictory , please explain.
Our idea is there is only one sun in the universe and all stars reflect the light of this one sun. Stars are like the moon, they are not other suns.
Dear Vaishnavas,
A very interesting subject and some good questions and answers!
One recent admission by the US military is that in not so many years into the future, they will have total control over the weather without any consultation with or approval from the citizens of Earth. And it seems that Asian countries and the Soviets have also been playing with this new technology. I believe it is called HAARP – High frequency Active Auroral Research Project. Seems like this is a rather sinister version of the children playing in the sandpit! Research by concerned individuals points to a high degree of success in altering and creating weather patterns. I just wonder if there are any positives in this or whether we should be like Krishna’s Gopa friends and just be aware of the dangerous serpent while having total faith that the Lord will protect?
Yes. They are quite ‘advanced’ in this weather control. They have discovered they can move clouds around and create clouds by dropping small light particles in the sky, and they put metals into these particles so they can move them around with strong electron-magnetic fields generated by HAARP and similar project. Yes. Many countries are playing with this and it is becoming ‘weather wars’. It is a new way of attacking another country, send them a drought, a hurricane, a tsunami, etc. But this is all childish play as you suggest. Like children in a sandpit. The whole material world is just a sandpit for us, the rebellious living entities who have rejected Krishna, to play in. So if they want to play with the weather, then Krishna will give them the intelligence how to manipulate the weather, and let them play with it.
But Krishna is still in control, and the demigods, like Indra, whom Krishna has delegated to look after these things, are still in control. It is like a child on the beach building a sand castle. He can build some great castle out of sand but as soon as the tide comes in his great construction will be immediately destroyed.
So the scientists are very proud, they can move clouds, create clouds, steer hurricanes, etc, but Indra and Krishna are there and they can override anything the scientists try to do at any time…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Science has many explanations about Life. Similarly scriptures has many versions of spiritualism to offer.The Vedantic philosophy has one central concept of Advaita concept i.e . a unified concept of soul as the basis of all religious philosophy of creation & dissolution and everything emanating from the cosmic consciousness.We believe in that. Akrura ,Lord krishna’s disciple went to Gopa to convince Gopis that they should regard Krishna as the ultimate paramatma.Gopis refused to accept this and also refused to ascribe any Godhood to Him. Krishna was a boy to them, they loved Him as a part of their body ,mind & soul. They wanted to call Him as their Kanheia and await His appearance by their side. What is more preferable is the love for Lord Krishna & Krishna’s love for them. They wanted nothing else ,no other philosophy of any Godhood
Hare Krishna Prabhu! Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to your devotional service!
So to defeat the scientists and proving the Vedas right – it would require to get the knowledge by the mercy of the bona fide spiritual master, and then, having perfectly comprehended the model of the universe as it is described in the Bhagavatam and other Vedic texts, build the model or structure for everyone to see.
Side by side do we also need to endeavour to know the scientist’s models, as they keep on making up from time to time using their brains, to show them how exactly they are faulty? The difficultly with the faulty scientist’s models is that they are much more complex to understand, given that they introduce so much speculative terminology of their own. Their method also depends on using a faulty instrument, the telescope. Plus they lie so much about their results as well (like those at NASA). And their ‘science’ changes now and then!
Really, for the scientists to comprehend the model of the Bhagavatam at all, they have to stop being the kind of scientists they are, and start instead following the Supreme Scientist (this time – meaning one who knows things as they are), Shri Krishna!
Hare Krishna!
Hare Krishna Sarnaduti
Yes. What scientists say is 99% rubbish. They make it complex and use big words just to hide the fact that they actually have no idea at all what is going on. This is particularly true for astronomy but is true for the other scientists also.
The real problem is we do not understand or comprehend the description of the universe in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If we actually comprehended it and could explain it in terms that the scientists could understand then at least a fair percentage of the scientists would be very interested to hear it and consider it as an alternative model.
Scientists are totally bored at the moment. They have not discovered anything for many, many decades now and are always looking for something new.
So if we could actually comprehend and explain the model in the Bhagavatam then plenty of scientists would be interested. None of them are really very attached to the big bang theory. There are so many alternative theories. Really any honest scientist will admit they don’t know. So if we could let them know they would be happy to hear. At least most of them…
But we don’t understand it. That is the problem. Because we are too much brainwashed by the modern bogus scientific ideas. We can not consider that what is written in the Bhagavatam could be true…
So the ball is in our court. Science has reached the end of the road and they can not give us anything new and all their old theories are falling to pieces. They would be happy if we could help them out with some actual knowledge…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
What is your opinion about India’s current Mars orbiter mission.. They say the mission was successful and very cost effective… Their attempt have been appreciated world over..
We do not believe they are doing these things just because they say they are doing them. Who knows. They may be doing it, but they may not be doing it also. NASA has made such a business out of cheating people with their fake manned moon landings that it seems, after seeing America fake the Apollo moon missions other countries are also thinking they may as well fake their own space exploration.
A good example of this is the recent Chinese moon lander. It contained so many wonderful instruments and could have sent back so many wonderful photos and movies of the moon but they only put out a few photos that looked like they were at least on a different planet to the moon that NASA landed on and that was is. It was very, very suspicious and probably faked.
So the reality is that advances in space exploration are seen as a big achievement for a country so if the country can not actually do it then there is a great temptation to fake it. Particularly since the USA has set the example by faking the NASA Apollo mission.
You know India. They are not above faking it if they can get some millage out of it.
So the reality is we want some actual proof they are doing these things.
The reason they do not want to do anything on the moon is because if they did do anything on the moon it would be relatively easy for anyone with a decent telescope to see the evidence of them doing things on the moon. And why not do something on the moon? And let the whole world see that they are doing something on the moon? That would be the obvious thing to do. But I do not think they can go to the moon.
So if they say they are going to Mars then that is far enough away that no one will every be able to determine if they are there or not from earth.
So we do not believe these things.
If they could actually travel to the moon so easily in the 60’s this interplanetary travel would have developed to a point where nowadays, fifty years later, it would be relatively common for people to travel to the moon and other planets and perform scientific experiments and exploration and industrial enterprises on the moon and other planets. But since the Apollo missions no man has even left earth orbit. The moon is supposed to be a quarter of a million miles away. In the 60’s we are expected to believe they had the technology to safely take men on the half-million mile round trip to the moon and now we can only send men up about 200-300 miles. No more.
So the whole space exploration thing is full of fakery and cheating. NASA has sent the standard for faking space exploration and other countries are just following suit.
Of course I can not say absolutely but it is my strong suspicion that these mars rovers, China’s moon rover, etc, are just rolling around on some fake moon and mars sets in some sound-studio somewhere on earth… There is absolutely no way any of us can know if these things are actually on the moon or mars or somewhere on earth.
So we have to wait for some real proof of these things and so far there is no proof and there is no result from the so-called space exploration.
So we do not believe these things. Unless they can prove they are actually doing the things we do not believe it just because they put it on the television…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare krsna,
Please accept my most humble obeisances.All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Madhudvisa Prabhu,
Although I have been putting faith in Srila Prabhupada’s teachings for around 3 years,I am totally unable to believe when Prabhupada says that “the sun is nearer to the earth than the moon”.It is very common experience that now there are satellites in space than help in communication.No one can deny this right?And there are many photos taken in space which show that the moon is much much nearer to us than the sun…..how can we accept everything as chaeating by the wicked scientists….Every person knows that the moon is nearer,right…
I find the philosophy of Krsna Consciouness to be wonderful…But this particular claim of the Bhagavatam has bewildered me….How can I deny everything that I see?Suppose I see someone drinking…..and someone else says….”no, he is not drinking….your imperfect eyes are seeing that”—what am I supposed to think?
I request to give a convincing reply to my doubt so that I can develop stronger faith in Prabhupada,and follow what he says.
Hare Krishna Santosh
Prabhu this is not Srila Prabhupada’s idea. This is the description of the universe given in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. There are so many contradictions with what modern science thinks the universe is like. Prabhupada uses the ‘frog in the well’ analogy and that is a very perfect way to understand it. The frog can only see the round circle above his head that is the top of the well he is living in. That is all he can see of the whole universe. Sometimes it is dark [night], sometimes it is daytime, and very occasionally in the night he may get a glimpse of the moon and on very rare occasions the sun may be directly above his well so he can see that, maybe once each year or something like that. And in the harvest season he hears the rumblings of the farmers tractors when he is harvesting his crops. So our Dr. Frog has carefully observed all these things and he can even predict now the day the sun will be above his well and he has a great philosophy to explain everything else in the universe also. But what can he actually see of the universe? How can he really understand anything about how the universe works? He can not see any of the workings of the universe. How can he even comprehend what that rumbling of the farmers tractor is? He has no idea what is farming, what is a tractor, his only experience for his whole life is in that 3 foot well.
So our scientists have no greater view of the universe than our Dr. Frog. They can not understand how it works because they can not see the workings. However the Bhagavatam is given to us by liberated souls who can see the actual situation of the whole universe. After all Lord Brahma is the chief engineer of the whole universe and he has created the whole thing out of the material in the lotus flower which grew from the navel of Lord Visnu on which he was born. And Lord Brahma is the source of our sampradaya, we are the brahma-madhva-gaudiya sampradaya. So with Lord Brahma as the leader of our sampradaya we really have got the best access to all information about the universe. Apart from Lord Krishna Himself there is no one who understands the workings of the universe better than Lord Brahma.
So Prabhu please do not dismiss the description of the universe in the Srimad-Bhagavatam because you can not comprehend it or line it up with what the scientists have told you. They know nothing, well maybe they know some little thing, but no more than the frog in the well.
It is certainly true that the scientists are able to put objects into earth orbit. And they have put satellite in earth orbit and we have proof of that because GPS works and the communications that depend on the satellites work. I even have a satellite internet connection so that would not work unless the satellite was there. These GPS geosynchronous satelites are around 22,000 miles above earth. And they have some higher ones also. But from this position the view of the universe, the sun, the moon, etc, is not much different from the view from Earth. According to there figures the moon is about a quarter of a million miles away from Earth. So from the satellites they can not see much.
As far as photos showing the relative positions of the sun, moon and earth, I do not think there are many. There are a few ‘earth rising’ pictures supposedly taken on the moon I have seen, but honestly I have not seen many such pictures and the problem is these things are so easy to fake. These days with computer graphics you can make any visual scene you want look very realistic.
Beyond the satellites and other objects in earth orbit like the international space station and the Hubble telescope there is practically nothing that we can validate about man’s exploration of space. And there are no results at all from 50 years of space exploration. To the contrary, in the 60’s we were supposedly able to send multiple successful manned missions to the moon and they were able to easily, with 1960’s technology, park their space ship in moon orbit and hop into their little ‘luna lander’ baby spaceship and fly down to the moon and take that big truck out of it and all the equipment one would need to broadcast live television from the moon to earth, and ride around on the moon and play golf and all that, then they hopped back in the luna lander and flew back up to their ship and successfully docked with it and flew it back to earth. And they supposedly did this successfully many times, maybe 5 or 6, I don’t know. But now no one knows how to fly to the moon. NASA can’t do it, many other countries have been talking about doing it for years but still at this point, since the Apollo missions in the 60’s no man has even left earth orbit… So the whole space exploration thing at this time is still quite questionable. It would appear that this man on the moon story was a hoax. Otherwise if we went to the moon in the 60’s we would still be able to go to the moon today…
Now they are saying that the Americans and Europeans will go to moon maybe in 10 or 20 years time… So let us wait and see. We need some proof that men can travel to the moon and other plants and see the universe from different perspectives. Because right now that proof simply does not exist.
Still now at least 20% of the Americans, it is probably a much higher percentage than that now, do no believe they ever went to the moon. So that is amazing, that after 50 years there is no proof that we can fly men to the moon… And that in 50 years no one has gone back to the moon…
So despite the loud voices of the scientists they know very little about the universe and how it works because they have no way of seeing how it works. They are just like the frog in the well.
Of course exactly how it is I can not tell you but I can tell you the description of the universe in the Bhagavatam is exactly how it is according to some perspective. You know things look different depending on where you are looking from. So maybe the description of the universe in the Bhagavatam is from the perspective of Lord Brahma and because he is looking down on it from the top of his lotus flower it is going to look a lot different from what our scientists see peering up through their little three-foot wide hole in the top of the well…
But there is no way they can tell actually if the sun or the moon is closer. It would look exactly the same if the moon was very big and further away and the sun was smaller than they think and closer. It is all relative. And all their ‘measurements’ are very prone to error and are based on assumptions that may not be true. The sun and the moon do exactly the same thing in the sky but the moon does it in 28 days and the sun does it in 365 days. But the way they move through the sky is identical. Western science tells us however that the sun and the moon are moving in a completely different way. According to them the earth is rotating around a relatively stationary sun and the moon is rotating around the earth, and that the movements of the sun and moon in the sky are the same is just a coincidence. Whereas the Vedic model is the earth is stationary and the sun and moon are both moving around the earth in a similar way but at different speeds and distances from the Earth. So it is a completely different model. But it is still a very good predictive model. The Vedic earth-centered model can be used for calculations that perfectly predict solar and lunar eclipses for example and in India pundits have been doing these calculations for thousands and thousands of years and Western science has only worked out how to make these calculations in the last 100 years. So the Vedic knowledge of the universe is so far ahead of the western astronomers. There must be something to it otherwise calculations using the Vedic model would not make such exact predictions of the things we observe happening in the sky…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
are u a vaishnava to use such vocabulary?????
Good article. We have to fallow the right authority.
We know that during the time of death what ever one remembers he will get that type of body.But suppose one thinks of an extinct animal like a dinosaur and he dies then,what type of body will he get?
kowsthub
Dinosaurs are only extinct on this planet. There are unlimited planets and unlimited universes and at the time of death you can go anywhere. So you can go to some planet where dinosaurs are not extinct and take birth there.
From my understanding of what was written by the faithful, I don’t think it’s as simple as think about a dino, become a dino. It’s about what was important in our life; what our souls believe is important and what we have done with our life while we are here. I have seen death many times, mostly violent and sudden, and I don’t believe that any could have thought about anything other then just hanging on to life. If it was simple then the books would have been shorter and would simply state “Make your last thought what you want and you’ll get it in the next round.”
Hare Krishna Tracy
The things that are most prominent in your life are what goes through your mind at the time of death. So if you make Krishna the most important thing in your life and think of Him constantly and serve Him constantly during your life then naturally you will think of Him at the time of death. This is the process of Krishna consciousness.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
but I thought your next life is already chosen by your karmic reaction?
NO, you have a bit of independence. So your next life depends on your choices in this life. The only real choice is to serve Krishna or to serve maya. And if you choose to serve maya then basically your whole life is mostly controlled by your past karma, but if you become Krishna conscious then that will destroy all your past karma and change your future…
> “They are fools and rascals..”
Being a devotee myself, I am sad to disagree with these hard words spoken by another Vaishnava. If he does not apologize for unprovoked offenses towards scientists, then I apologize in the name of the rest of us, more humble Vaishnavas. I am a Serbian and one of the greatest scientists of all time was a Serbian, Nikola Tesla. Without him, our modern world would not look the same. There is an endless list of religious scientists. Tesla’s father was a priest. Tesla himself said he was so genuinely inspired that his greatest discoveries came straight from his mind, without any scientific experiments. That is why we do not have many scientific notes left behind Tesla – he bypassed that stage, but nevertheless, his method was totally scientific and in accordance with the best scientific tradition. Indeed an apology is in place to all those God-obedient souls who worked hard through the darkness of ignorance for our better tomorrow.
Miodrag
Hare Krishna Miodrag
There is no apology necessary. They are rascals and fools. Even Tesla he died a lonely frustrated old man. You know that? He was getting his funding for his research from a wealthy man, I think Westinghouse, and when Tesla came up with the idea of basically free energy his materialistic supporters stopped funding his research. Because they want to sell electricity, they did not want any development that would allow people to get electricity for free.
So Tesla’s work stopped because he could not build his ideas without money.
So you see he wasted his time. He did not know the purpose of life.
And his inventions came from Krishna, not from him. You know Krishna is present within everyone’s heard and Krishna is giving rememberence, knowledge and forgetfulness. So Krishna told Tesla all these things from within his heart so he was able to invent these things. They are coming from Krishna, not Tesla. We should give credit where credit is due. Tesla was simply an instrument in the hands of Krishna and if he did not invent these things Krishna would have inspired someone else to invent them.
Tesla was a fool in the sense that he thought his great discoveries were coming from his mind but they were coming from Krishna in his heart.
All these guys are fools and rascals because they do not know Krishna. They do not know the knowledge is coming from Krishna and they do not know that they should be engaged in the service of Krishna. And they are propagating so much atheistic nonsense like the big bang theory, creation of the universe by chance, Darwin’s theory, etc, etc… And they present themselves as such great authorities on everything but really they know practically nothing.
Fools and rascals.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
well said Madhudvisa dasa!!
I agree to PRABHUJI madhudvisa dasa….they are fools nd rascals because they dnt know the supreme personality (KRISHNA).KRISHNA is the cause for all the causes
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar97/858790120.Ph.r.html
http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/gkastr1.html
The first link leads to a simple experiment that a small group of 10 year old children can perform to use observing the moon and simple maths to calculate the approximate distance from the Earth to its moon.
It’s just numbers, simple and real. Anybody can perform this experiment anywhere in the world, and we can check the process using other methods like RADAR and the Lunar Laser Ranging Experiment. Again, real observable things about the world around us that we can make predictions about, and then have others test those predictions for truth or falsehood; retaining the true, discarding the false.
Anybody who demands you ignore observable reality is demanding that you shut your mind off and stop thinking so they can control you. What’s the alternative? Believing that any of the dozens of space projects involving Earth’s moon are all an elaborate hoax just so you can insist an old book is absolutely true when it’s obviously got this one specific thing dead wrong?
Hare Krishna Andy
Your first experiment of kids measuring the distance of the moon is complete nonsense because two kids can not get far enough apart to measure the angle to the moon at the same time to calculate the distance by the triangulation method that they were using to measure the height of a power pole. The second link contains the following: “Unfortunately, the angle difference from two points a few hundred miles apart was too small to be measurable by the techniques in use at the time, so that method wouldn’t work.” So even if your two kids could get a few hundred miles apart and each measure the angle to the moon at the same moment still this would not be far enough apart to detect any significant difference in the angle. So it is not possible like this…
And your second link suggests that you can determine the distance to the moon by watching the ‘moon’ as it comes in front of the sun during a solar eclipse. But we know that what comes in front of the sun during a solar eclipse is NOT the moon. During a solar eclipse the moon goes behind the sun and the dark, generally invisible, planet, Rahu comes in front of the moon. So the distance they are measuring in the second experiment is the distance to Rahu, not the distance to the Moon…
As far as the Luna Laser Ranging Experiment I have extensive experience with this sitting with the technicians for many nights while they were doing this experiment in Texas which is the only place that they do it on a regular basis. Their results are not reliable. They fire a big green lazer at the moon through a 12″ optical telescope in pulses. At least one pulse a second, maybe more. So they are firing the laser constantly like this. And they have a detector in the telescope that is only looking for green light around the wavelength of the green laser. And the only open up the detector a tiny instant before the time they ‘know’ there should be a reflection from the moon and close it immediately after. If there happens to be a photon or two of green light that hits the detector in this very brief instant they assume it is a reflection from the moon of the laser they pulsed some time before. It takes light some time to travel 1/2 a million miles because light only travels at 186,282 miles per second. So to go to the moon and back [about 500,000 miles] it is going to take close to three seconds before they expect to get a ‘return’. So the laser has pulsed many times before the computer checks for the green light on the detector in the telescope for a pulse that happened 3 seconds ago… In reality they can not tell where the green light comes from. It could be in the telescope from one of the other pulses of the lazer, it could be reflecting from somewhere else from this or any of the other pluses of the laser it could be just green light that comes from somewhere else.
Anyhow the idea of the experiment is that there are three retro-reflectors on the moon, one is placed by the Russians and two by the US. Mostly they are only 1 foot square. That is amazingly small. Firing a laser to hit something only one foot square that is 1/4 of a million miles away.
Anyhow the point I am getting as it they can not reliably perform this experiment. It is very much dependent on the operators. Some operators can get it to work but others can not. And there are times when no one can get it to work. They can go for weeks without getting any substantial returns and then suddenly it can start working and then stop again and they do not know why…
Anyhow there are many mistakes in things that scientists assume….
The real proof that they did not go to the moon in the 60’s is now more than fifty years later when we have technology that they could not even dream about in the 60’s we can not go to the moon… If we could go to the moon with the 60’s technology we would be space travelers now but we are not able to even go to the moon now….
We can just go up a hundred miles or so and put some satellites up there in earth orbit. And we can shoot off some rockets and send them hurtling out into space and get some signals back from them… But man can not go anywhere out of earth orbit now… So it is very unlikely that we knew how to do this in sixties if we can’t do it now… In the 60’s we could send three men and a big truck up to the moon and they could leave their ship in orbit and land in the lunar lander and drive their truck around on the moon and send back live television to earth [in the 60’s mind you] and get back in their lunar lander and fly up and link with their mothership and safely fly back to earth… And not just once, many times… And now such a thing is impossible… Why? Because it was all faked. That is the most logical explanation. I am sure you can see that. The proof would be that this technology would have been developed and improved and by now space travel would be a common thing at least for scientific research and exploration. But we have no space travel now. That is the proof that the amazing technology that made all this possible in the 60’s actually did not exist. But they did of course have the technology to fake it…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
The opinion of the scientists in Australia who are actually in the best position to perform this experiment and had very good equipment to do it with is that it is not at all conclusive. They can not say with any degree of certainty that they are getting any reflections from reflectors on the moon. So this experiment is not proof that man went to the moon. And that is the point of this article, that there is no proof that man went to the moon.
hare krishna madhudvisa dasa.
so since we cant get to the moon…is there really a rover on mars right now. or is this another elaborate plan of the “scientist”?
The mars rover is probably another scam of the scientists. These things are so easy to fake. Who would ever know if the rover is on mars or in some desert area of the US?
Hare Krishna Madhudvisa Dasa,
Thank you so much for the wonderful and meaningful explanations that you have been providing around our cosmos and these are completely logical. I have been trying to understand the concept of eclipse and I still have some questions in my mind. I hope to get some insight around these and request you to share your knowledge.
Case 1: Looking from the Earth, if the positions are:
Moon – Top Most
Sun – Below the Moon
Rahu – Below the Sun
Earth – Observer
This explains why the Moon goes behind the Sun during Eclipse or New moon and hence we do not see the dark disk in the sky during new moon, with Sun and moon looking same sized. This concept seems very logical and I am convinced that the Moon’s position is above the sun in the sky.
Then indeed Rahu needs to be below the sun for Solar eclipse to occur and is completely logical.
We also know that, the sun goes completely dark during solar eclipse and moon goes red and completely visible during a lunar eclipse.
This means, Rahu does not allow any light to pass through it during solar eclipse. It could be a opaque body which camouflages with the sky and hence, modern science has failed to detect Rahu. Again, I may be wrong but I am trying to connect the links.
If Rahu was blocking the sun completely during solar eclipse, then the same Rahu cannot allow moon light to pass through it during lunar eclipse.
This led me to think, if there was a different object responsible for Lunar Eclipse, that camouflages with the sky and at the same time partially transparent, to allow the moonlight to pass through but with a reddish tinge.
I may be completely wrong in my understanding but I have strong belief in our vedas and ancient knowledge but my own knowledge is insufficient to understand the concepts of the creator. I sincerely wish to learn and understand our solar system / cosmos as much as time on Earth allows me and appreciate the creator for such amazing engineering work.
I would also be greatly honored to meet you in person to discuss these in much more detail.
Thank you so much for all the clarity in advance.
Best Regards,
Neeraj Agarwal
Hare Krishna Neeraj
Solar eclipse is clearly something coming between sun and earth. Lunar eclipse is clearly shadow of something on moon coming between sun and moon. So it could be Rahu in both cases.
Unless one acknowledges Krishna as the cause of all causes he is fool and rascal and is wasting his life. Be it Tesla or anyone.
i think you are expressing your comments on a website because of modern science….
And “modern” scientists and for that matter all living beings get the intelligence from Krishna, this is confirmed by Lord Krishna himself in Bhagvadgita. Inspite of so called scientific progress the scientists cannot produce food grains, fruits, flowers which is needed to remain alive. One can remain alive without internet or website but one cannot remain alive without food. Still these scientists claim that there is no God and scientists can do everything. So it would be better if you start thanking God than these rascal atheistic scientists.