The Genes and the Soul
After the scientific survey on the human genome, the media’s attention turned to the news about cloning. Because of the plenty of invested money the scientists studying cloning have achieved considerable results. For a layman it may seem that the biologists have almost become omnipotent, and they can create animals or even human beings according to their choice, thus fully dethroning the Creator…
What is science actually able and not able to do? What did it create and did it take over God’s roll? Did the development of biotechnology contradict the ancient teachings on God and the soul?
Before going deeper in the topic, let’s understand what we mean on cloning. Clone is the successor organism (it can be one cell), that is identical with the mother organism from a genetical point of view. During its formation there is no sexed process where the genes could “mix”. In this sense “clones” can also come into being naturally, for example by asexual reproduction of cells. At the division of the cells a successor cell or “clone” comes into being that is genetically completely identical with the original cell. Consequently all of your bodily cells, dear reader, are the clones of the cell that came into being at the time of the union of the gamete and the ovum.
Each the bodily cell has all of the information that is needed for the construction of the body, however they use only a certain part of this because of a wonderful controlling mechanism. Thus differently constructed and differently working types of cells develop. In case two different organisation start to develop because of some disorder in the first cell-divisions, natural clones or identical twins can come into being. Many of the organisms on the lower organisation level (for example bacterium, one-celled plants, animals, fungus) basically multiply in a monogenetic way, and sexed process rarely occurs in their multiplication for ‘refreshing’ the genes. The multiplication of the plants with vegetative organs – with tubers, runners, root-stock – or even the gemmation of a medusa is also a monogenetic process. These forms of monogenetic multiplication result in a natural clone.
“Clonology”
So we can speak about cloning at several organisation levels, and this is also true for the artificial clones made by humans. Thus cloning is ambiguous, and it may include the possible copying of a molecule, a cell, a tissue or organ, a frog, a mammal or a human being.
The history of cloning started with cellcloning, which means the laboratory cultivation of cells (cell cultures). From a genetical point of view all the cells of the produced cell line are identical with the original cell. In the development of genetics this was followed by molecular cloning. In this case it’s the multiplication of a molecule. This is for example the so-called DNA polymeric chain reaction when the DNA-molecules are multiplied to the quantity necessary for the examination.
For the public cloning generally means creating complete (multicell) organisms. Its method is the so-called nuclear transfer (nucleus transport) technology. This is the method by which Dolly, the world famous lamb-clone was created in 1997. The basic points of the process are the following:
- An ovule is deprived of its own nucleus, thus removing the genetical substance or the DNA molecules.
- The nucleus is taken out from one of the cells of the animal’s body.
- The nucleus of the bodily cell (or as another variation the whole bodily cell) is put in an ovule which is deprived of its nucleus (or two cells are forced to unite by electricity).
- During the process – in a still not completely clear way – the genetical watch of the bodily cell is ‘set to zero’. The bodily cell used earlier (epidermic cell etc.) works only with those genes which were needed for its special duty, although its genetical substance included the ‘design’ of the whole organism. So this differentiated bodily cell was ‘specialised’ for a given duty. But the earlier selective work of the DNA substance planted in the ovule stopped, and it is able to develop an entirely new organism.
- The ovule having such DNA substance is planted to the womb of a female animal, which then – in the lucky case – bears and gives birth to the thus developed embryo.
Producing humans?
The present ideas of cloning humans would use this method in order to give descendants for those married couple who can’t have children. The children born this way would be the perfect genetical duplicates of one of their parents. But it is not so simple since the scientists are facing several problems – both technological and ethical.
The examinations on animals proved that with clones there is more chance for abnormal cell division and more risk of cancer, which comes when the cells lose their self-destroying ability and start to multiply endlessly. Moreover the clone-animals will supposedly have a much shorter life than the other members of the species. This is clear since they used the material of cells which had gone through many multiplications.
Moreover the present technologies are successful only in 2% with animals, so for the present arguments the fact is essential that a significant part of the animal embryos die during the embryonic development or before the birth, or they take birth with serious development disorders (it is because of this that many of the animal right protectors are against the cloning experiments).
As long as it is about animal experiments – even if monsters or deformed animals are born – the majority of general public doesn’t really protest. But it is dreadful to think what would happen if the human cloning experiments worked with similar (or even worse) technology. What would happen with the deformed babiesI?
How many souls are there in a body?
According to the Vedic literature the living entity is not only a material body, but it is built of three different layers. The visible material body is constituted of the elements of the periodic system; this is our body that we see when we look in the mirror. The mind, intelligence and the false ego constitute our subtle material body that we can’t experience with our senses. This covers the soul, the real bearer of life – our real self. The soul is the real bearer of our personality, self. The subtle body is like a cloud around the soul and the gross body is only a lot of complicated but lifeless molecules.
It is an interesting question then how many souls are there in a multicellular animal’s body, which is built of billions of cells? According to the Vedic point of view there is a soul in each cell of the body, but these are on a quite low level of consciousness. Above these bodily cells (“living bricks”) one soul exercises power who is on a higher lever in the process of reincarnation. This only soul, having a higher consciousness, uses the plant, animal or human body which is built of millions of cell-size bodies. This soul exercises power above the other cells, also having individual souls. According to the Vedic literature the body dies when this controlling soul (with his subtle covering) leaves this gross body and moves to another body. After the exit of the controlling soul the co-ordination stops amongst the bodily cells, the body ‘dies’, or it remains without control.
The clone who is different
We would like to point out another exciting question. A supposed human clone would completely resemble his ‘gene parent’ bodily (genetically). But would it be like this emotionally and mentally, so would he think in the same way and would he have the same emotions as his ‘predecessor’? From the Vedic point of view definitely not. Not only because it would grow up in different circumstances and have different experiences. But simply because in the body another living entity, another soul would live who entered the new organism in the special laboratory circumstances when creating his body. A clone would be different from his genetical ‘parent’ emotionally and in his character, just as the psyche of identical twins is different.
The conclusion of all this is that we can’t laugh at death, creating eternity for ourselves or for anyone else. A clone successor is not the ‘continuation’ of his predecessor but an independent personality who for some time received a body similar to somebody else’s. Science will never be able to conquer death, perishableness because this is one of the created, built-in qualities of our world.
It is important to point out that science didn’t create life from matter with cloning since it has been manipulating only with living things. It seems to prove statements of Vedic scriptures that the efforts of science still can’t overstep the border line between perishable matter and eternal soul, and they can’t change the eternal laws of life and death.
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I just have a doubt related to this article, i may not be right but just answer my question madhuvisa dasa ji..please!!
I thought there was only one soul that is the subordinate controller to the supreme controller(Lord Krishna)(who is present with every living entity as his best friend) in the heart of the human body and the living force which is the main element of the body and the rest of it is material gross body…
is it true that all the multicellular organisms including us have many living entities in the body..it’s just that they are in a low level of consciousness than us..?? prabhupadaji never told us about that in Bhagavad Gita As It Is; they just told us that we are part and parcel of supreme lord and we are subordinate to him and human body is just a temporary material clothing that covers the living entity throughout his struggles in this material world.
they never said humans have many living entities in their body, they just talked about one living entity which is the living force in the body and it is through which our heart beats and it is the main energy resource, though it seems like we are the real controller but actually it is the supreme lord Krishna who is the real and supreme controller.
i know that trees or plants might have many living entities but i am not sure about human body ??
Hare Krishna Tushar
You need to study the teachings of Srila Prabhupada more. He has said that within the body there are many living entities. But we, I, you, are one individual spirit soul and we are the consciousness that is pervading this entire body. There are many other living entities but we are the one soul who is the consciousness that is pervading this body.
However the body is working it is my body and I am the all-pervading consciousness within the body. But I am not actually the doer. The way the body is working is very subtle and it is fully described by Srila Prabhupada. You can not just read Bhagavad Gita. You need to read all of Srila Prabhuapda’s books if you want to understand this. Actually we are not directly controlling this body. We, the soul, the consciousness, have a desire. Say I desire to move my hand. That is all I can do, desire. For that desire to be fulfilled there needs to be the sanction of Krishna and then there is a interaction of various demigods and different aspects of the material energy to actually move my hand.
Prabhupada gives the example many times that we are not in control even of the movements of our body. At any moment our hand may become paralyzed and we can not move it any more.
So these things are quite deep and require a deeper study than just Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita is ABC, introduction, for more detailed information you need to study Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, and Srila Prabhupada’s other books.
So please become addicted to reading Srila Prabhupada’s books and you will find that magically, with every turn of the page, more and more of your questions will be answered in such a satisfying way.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
thanks madhudvisa dasa ji for the reply….
and I promise to read all of His Divine Grace Shrila Prabupadaji’s books …as they are very enlightening and satisfying..and now I trying to chant HARE KRISHNA MAHAMANTRA..and trying to follow exactly what vedas say not making my own ways to worship..and it does work when I chant Hare Krishna Mahamantra it is more helpful and enlightening…and i will try to satisfy His Divine Grace Shrila prabhupadaji because that’s the only way we can satisfy Lord Krishnaji and Radhama..
I have another question…i watched a documentary called Earthling; in the documentary it was shown that even getting milk from cows is bad.. because we take so much milk from them that instead of living for 20 years they die only for after living for 4 years…
and i think it is also bad because we deprive the child of cow from getting the milk of his mother that he deserves..
I know that Lord Krishna are a cowherd boy, but i think it’s on a completely different level when cows give milk in gokula vrindhavan they actually serving the lord and are enjoying transcendental pleasure in it and in gokula vrindhavan every one is happy and everyone is serving the lord in one way or the other….and when they came here 5000 years ago it was the sames as it is in actual spiritual planet Gokula vrindhavan…
but i think it’s a different thing when humans do it we are merciless and we are just taking so much profitable things from cows (and other animals) and giving nothing in return…
so my question is it is still good to drink milk when we know how much pain the cow has to go throw to provide us with milk..??
maybe in india they are more good towards cow but here in america they don’t treat cows or any other animal in a nice way….
Well how about this. You have a clone of a person who died and once the clone was born God makes the same soul reborn back to his previous body type, that way you have the same mental and subtle material body yet again inhabit the same type of physical gross body. But I think even in this case it would not be completely similar as the astrological chart at birth for these two bodies has to be similiar.
Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu,
As you said that the soul in the conditioned state is not even in control of this body.
My question is that when the soul becomes liberated, is the soul able to
control his spiritual body?
and it is said that the soul has more freedom and independence in the liberated state then what is the meaning and scope of this freedom ?
thanks a lot for all the enlightening answers
Hare Krishna Brijesh
In the liberated state there is no difference between the soul and his spiritual body. It is not that we will ever be independent. We, as souls are eternally servants. The difference is that in the material world we are serving maya or illusion but in our liberated state in the spiritual world we will be serving Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we will always be servants. But serving Krishna is very nice and that you will discover for yourself as you advance in Krishna consciousness. It is completely different from serving maya in the material world.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Dear guru maharaj first of all i would like to thank you for your time helping the conditioned souls for advancing in krishna conciousness. I am having a question regarding the soul. We know that the material body is made of multicells but does each cell has separate soul or does the whole body has one soul and how does the working takes place? Thanks for your time prabhuji.
Hare Krishna
We are the one soul who is in charge of directing the whole body. They may be many other souls in various ways engaged in the work of the body but there is only one soul who is in charge of and conscious of the whole body. So the whole body has one soul and the working takes place by the sanction of Krishna and with the help of the demigods. The soul is not actually capable of directly controlling the body. The soul desires and Krishna sanctions the desire and the actual action is carried out with the help of the demogods. So it is a rather complex process. But basically the soul desires that he lift his arm and his arm lifts but there is a complex chain of events that actually cause the lifting of the arm that are not completely under the control of the soul.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
Hare krishna guruji. Thanks for your reply i was very satisfied with your answers.
HARE KRISHNA HARE RAM
I have a question – We learn that Krishna is the source of everything, and also that the jeevatma is “part and parcel” of Krishna, but yet we learn that Krishna did not create the jeevatma. The two statements seem contradictory. Please explain. And if Krishna did not create the individual soul, then where did they come from in the 1st place? Who created them?
Also, is it correct that Ramanujacharya differed on this point with ISKCON that he believed that the individual soul was created by GOD?
Thanks,
Rajesh
Hare Krishna Rajesh
You are stuck in the dualities of the material world. We, the spirit souls, are constitutionally the same as Krishna, the only difference is Krishna is unlimited and we are limited, very tiny. Krishna is very great and we are very tiny. But we are the same as Krishna in quality. So Krishna is eternal, it means Krishna was never born and Krishna never dies, therefore we are also eternal. We are never born and we never die. Krishna does not have a beginning or an end and we also do not have a beginning or an end. We have always existed along with Krishna. That is what eternal means.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
HARE KRISHNA HARE RAM
Further to the message sent yesterday afternoon, I also would like to learn how the “original Karma” began from? I mean there must have been a starting point when the jeevatma was free from karmas, being original residents of spiritual world. So, if we were then sent to the material world due to our desires, then why were some sent as animals and the others as human beings? Would greatly appreciate and treasure your response,
Thanks,
Rajesh
Hare Krishna Rajesh
Every living entity has a limited amount of independence so we can all use our independence properly or misuse it. So if we misuse our independence we can not do that in the spiritual world. Because misusing our independence means we have decided not to serve Krishna but to try and serve ourselves. So that is not possible in the spiritual world. Therefore Krishna has created this material world complete with maya who provides us with the illusion that we can be happy separately from Krishna. But this world is designed to frustrate all our attempts ultimately and thoughtful people after many lives of frustration will realize that there is only Krishna and they decide to surrender to Krishna. So it is like that. As far as coming into the material world mostly they are coming as high level living entities like Lord Brahma and then gradually falling down to lower levels.
But really how we got here exactly is not very important. We are here now and it is a very bad place to be, a terrible place to be, we should be concentrating on how to get out, not how we got in….
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa
The Genes and the Soul
April 8, 2012 by Madhudvisa dasa
Dear author,
thanks a lot for your beautiful article. It gave me a most importnat answer!
In earlier times I had become aware thru direct vision that cells have chakras. Yeast cells e.g. 3 “bigger ones” plus 2 “smaller ones”. At that time I did not ask for a soul level.
I had also become aware that some body organs have residing godheads, e.g the liver, with 3 such godheads involved (I purpposefully do not call them entities). In healing one can work with them in some cases.
Now my questions did run into ? soul in cells? and I found your very helpful article searching for vedic sources. From “soul understanding” I fully agree.
I would be happy very happy to find some guidance to vedic sources where I possibly can find more on this topic. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgable in vedic scriptures. So, could you possibly give me some reading advice, and possibly connect me to some living people who do spiritual research on similar topics?
I am very greatful that I gfound your article! Thank You.
Yours
Atmakaya
Hare Krishna
You will find everything you are looking for in the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. You should make a program to read all of his books. It will be very, very good for you.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Madhudvisa dasa