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Published on August 24th, 2015 | by Madhudvisa dasa | Full size image


The Genes, Cloning and the Soul

After the scientific survey on the human genome, the media’s attention turned to the news about cloning. Because of the plenty of invested money the scientists studying cloning have achieved considerable results. For a layman it may seem that the biologists have almost become omnipotent, and they can create animals or even human beings according to their choice, thus fully dethroning the Creator…

What is science actually able and not able to do? What did it create and did it take over God’s roll? Did the development of biotechnology contradict the ancient teachings on God and the soul?

Before going deeper in the topic, let’s understand what we mean on cloning. Clone is the successor organism (it can be one cell), that is identical with the mother organism from a genetical point of view. During its formation there is no sexed process where the genes could “mix”. In this sense “clones” can also come into being naturally, for example by asexual reproduction of cells. At the division of the cells a successor cell or “clone” comes into being that is genetically completely identical with the original cell. Consequently all of your bodily cells, dear reader, are the clones of the cell that came into being at the time of the union of the gamete and the ovum.

Each the bodily cell has all of the information that is needed for the construction of the body, however they use only a certain part of this because of a wonderful controlling mechanism. Thus differently constructed and differently working types of cells develop. In case two different organisation start to develop because of some disorder in the first cell-divisions, natural clones or identical twins can come into being. Many of the organisms on the lower organisation level (for example bacterium, one-celled plants, animals, fungus) basically multiply in a monogenetic way, and sexed process rarely occurs in their multiplication for ‘refreshing’ the genes. The multiplication of the plants with vegetative organs – with tubers, runners, root-stock – or even the gemmation of a medusa is also a monogenetic process. These forms of monogenetic multiplication result in a natural clone.


So we can speak about cloning at several organisation levels, and this is also true for the artificial clones made by humans. Thus cloning is ambiguous, and it may include the possible copying of a molecule, a cell, a tissue or organ, a frog, a mammal or a human being.

The history of cloning started with cellcloning, which means the laboratory cultivation of cells (cell cultures). From a genetical point of view all the cells of the produced cell line are identical with the original cell. In the development of genetics this was followed by molecular cloning. In this case it’s the multiplication of a molecule. This is for example the so-called DNA polymeric chain reaction when the DNA-molecules are multiplied to the quantity necessary for the examination.

For the public cloning generally means creating complete (multicell) organisms. Its method is the so-called nuclear transfer (nucleus transport) technology. This is the method by which Dolly, the world famous lamb-clone was created in 1997. The basic points of the process are the following:

  1. An ovule is deprived of its own nucleus, thus removing the genetical substance or the DNA molecules.
  2. The nucleus is taken out from one of the cells of the animal’s body.
  3. The nucleus of the bodily cell (or as another variation the whole bodily cell) is put in an ovule which is deprived of its nucleus (or two cells are forced to unite by electricity).
  4. During the process – in a still not completely clear way – the genetical watch of the bodily cell is ‘set to zero’. The bodily cell used earlier (epidermic cell etc.) works only with those genes which were needed for its special duty, although its genetical substance included the ‘design’ of the whole organism. So this differentiated bodily cell was ‘specialised’ for a given duty. But the earlier selective work of the DNA substance planted in the ovule stopped, and it is able to develop an entirely new organism.
  5. The ovule having such DNA substance is planted to the womb of a female animal, which then – in the lucky case – bears and gives birth to the thus developed embryo.

Producing humans?

The present ideas of cloning humans would use this method in order to give descendants for those married couple who can’t have children. The children born this way would be the perfect genetical duplicates of one of their parents. But it is not so simple since the scientists are facing several problems – both technological and ethical.

The examinations on animals proved that with clones there is more chance for abnormal cell division and more risk of cancer, which comes when the cells lose their self-destroying ability and start to multiply endlessly. Moreover the clone-animals will supposedly have a much shorter life than the other members of the species. This is clear since they used the material of cells which had gone through many multiplications.

Moreover the present technologies are successful only in 2% with animals, so for the present arguments the fact is essential that a significant part of the animal embryos die during the embryonic development or before the birth, or they take birth with serious development disorders (it is because of this that many of the animal right protectors are against the cloning experiments).

As long as it is about animal experiments – even if monsters or deformed animals are born – the majority of general public doesn’t really protest. But it is dreadful to think what would happen if the human cloning experiments worked with similar (or even worse) technology. What would happen with the deformed babiesI?

How many souls are there in a body?

According to the Vedic literature the living entity is not only a material body, but it is built of three different layers. The visible material body is constituted of the elements of the periodic system; this is our body that we see when we look in the mirror. The mind, intelligence and the false ego constitute our subtle material body that we can’t experience with our senses. This covers the soul, the real bearer of life – our real self. The soul is the real bearer of our personality, self. The subtle body is like a cloud around the soul and the gross body is only a lot of complicated but lifeless molecules.

It is an interesting question then how many souls are there in a multicellular animal’s body, which is built of billions of cells? According to the Vedic point of view there is a soul in each cell of the body, but these are on a quite low level of consciousness. Above these bodily cells (“living bricks”) one soul exercises power who is on a higher lever in the process of reincarnation. This only soul, having a higher consciousness, uses the plant, animal or human body which is built of millions of cell-size bodies. This soul exercises power above the other cells, also having individual souls. According to the Vedic literature the body dies when this controlling soul (with his subtle covering) leaves this gross body and moves to another body. After the exit of the controlling soul the co-ordination stops amongst the bodily cells, the body ‘dies’, or it remains without control.

The clone who is different

We would like to point out another exciting question. A supposed human clone would completely resemble his ‘gene parent’ bodily (genetically). But would it be like this emotionally and mentally, so would he think in the same way and would he have the same emotions as his ‘predecessor’? From the Vedic point of view definitely not. Not only because it would grow up in different circumstances and have different experiences. But simply because in the body another living entity, another soul would live who entered the new organism in the special laboratory circumstances when creating his body. A clone would be different from his genetical ‘parent’ emotionally and in his character, just as the psyche of identical twins is different.

The conclusion of all this is that we can’t laugh at death, creating eternity for ourselves or for anyone else. A clone successor is not the ‘continuation’ of his predecessor but an independent personality who for some time received a body similar to somebody else’s. Science will never be able to conquer death, perishableness because this is one of the created, built-in qualities of our world.

It is important to point out that science didn’t create life from matter with cloning since it has been manipulating only with living things. It seems to prove statements of Vedic scriptures that the efforts of science still can’t overstep the border line between perishable matter and eternal soul, and they can’t change the eternal laws of life and death.

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23 Responses to The Genes, Cloning and the Soul

  1. Nidhi says:

    As per the article you mean cell as a unit of life is a soul of lower consciousness and our body is made of millions of them so ,millions of jeevatmas are residing simultaneously with me ( a bigger jeevatma of higher consciousness) ?? In GITA ,BHAGWATAM,Any other scripture is there any reference as such ??Prabhuji what about VIRUS which is not even a cell but only strands of nucleotides DNA /RNA but acts as living and falls as a border line b/w living and non-living world? Please forgive my offence answer /no answer will not shake my KRISHNA BHAKTI at any cost its only for knowledge that i am asking as a student plus teacher of Life Science.

    • Hare Krishna Nidhi

      Krishna says He is within the atom. So if Krishna is in the atom the jiva is also in the atom. So there is life at every level. Some of the living entities are practically non-manifest, but they are there.

      Our bodies are like small universes. As a universe is full of unlimited living entities so our bodies are also full of unlimited living entities.

      Actually the scientists do not clearly understand anything so there is no point in taking much notice of what they say. We don’t care about that. And even we do not care about the very minute details of the material energy. Actually Krishna’s material energy is very complex and it is not possible for us to understand it fully.

      What we need to understand is that the material world is a miserable place where we are forced to take birth, get old, get sick and die over and over and over again. Unlimitedly. That is hellish. That is painful. That is suffering. That we have to understand.

      So instead of being so interested in the very minute details of the material energy we should transfer our interest to Krishna katha, talks of Krishna. Because by hearing the Krishna katha we can elevate our consciousness to the transcendental platform and completely transcend the material energy.

      So there is no point in developing anything more than a very general idea of how the material energy is working. Because we are not interested in the material energy. We are interested in transcending the material energy and reviving our original spiritual consciousness. The process to do this is a great science and that great science is elaborately described in Srila Prabhupada’s books. We should read Srila Prabhupada’s books and transform our consciousness by thinking about the subject matter we find in Srila Prabhupada’s books.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

      • Nidhi says:

        Thanks for the answer.What is the basic core cell biology we need to study because in this material world we are not studying spiritual science only that we see or concepts put forward by scientists and if we don’t follow the rules of general science then maintenance of this material body gets difficult.Our dharma in KC ask us to discard the basic principles of science or accept them under our KC Sadhana.Is it an offence if we follow the rules of science.Is it possible to become a KRISHNA CONSCIOUS SCIENTIST ?

        • Hare Krishna Nidhi

          I think you are little confused here. There is no need whatsoever to understand cell biology to maintain the material body. And we do not have to “follow the rules of general science” to maintain the material body? You are not making any sense at all here.

          Maintaining the material body you can find everything you need to do that in the Vedas. For example Bhagavad-gita tells us to not eat too much, not sleep to much, not eat too little and not sleep too little. Krishna recommends that we offer Him with love and devotion foods made from fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, grains and milk products. And devotees only accept Krishna prasadam. And there are many rules and regulations about preparing offerings to Krishna. It has to be done in a very clean way, only the freshest and best fruits and vegetables are used, all chemicals and artificial things are prohibited, canned foods and frozen foods are prohibited, only the best, freshest natural and pure things can be offered to Krishna.

          And there are many hygienic principles that a devotee is trained to strictly follow. For example we always wash our hands and mouth after eating. That is because the mouth is a very contaminated part of the body so if we touch our mouth then our hands become contaminated so they have to be washed. We take a full bath and put on clean clothing after passing stool because after passing stool the body becomes contaminated. There are so many hygienic regulations that devotees follow.

          So because a devotee only accepts Krishna prasadam which is prepared only of pure and natural fruits, vegetables, grains and milk products, and he follows all the hygienic and other principles recommended in the Vedas automatically his material body is perfectly maintained. In fact devotees who really do only accept prasadam and do actually follow the Vedic hygienic principles very rarely get sick.

          In contrast to this the current materialistic society and the scientists you seem to think so highly of have absolutely no idea how to keep the body fit and healthy. In fact the scientists have introduced so many poisonous chemicals into the processed foods which maybe preserve it so they can keep it on the supermarket shelves for ten years, and maybe make it a nice color, etc, but which totally poison the food and poison the people who eat the food. And you think this is good? That is what the scientists have given us. Poisonous food that will last 10 years on the supermarket shelves. They have no idea what is healthy and what will nicely maintain the human body. If you want to maintain your body nicely you have to follow the Vedic hygenic principles and only accept Krishna prasadam. If you want to poison and destroy your body then go ahead and eat all this poison-laden rubbish made possible by the scientists chemicals…

          We do not follow the rules of the modern scientists. They are idiots. They have no actual knowledge. All science is just a theory and their theories are constantly changing. The science you are learning today is totally different from the science they were teaching 20 years ago and it is totally different from the science they will be teaching in 20 years time. So what’s the point? If you were to quote the science they were teaching 20 years ago today the scientists would laugh at you and call you a fool. And if you were to quote today’s science to scientists in 20 years time they will laugh at you and call you a fool.

          So ‘science’ is not knowledge. It has no value. The real science you will find that in the Srimad-Bhagavatam and the other Vedic literatures. The way to become a Krishna conscious scientist is by studying Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita. This is the real science.

          Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

          Madhudvisa dasa

          • Nidhi says:

            PAMHO ,AGTSP
            Thanks for the reply .I am not at all confused Prabhuji ,for me spiritual science is topmost but as a student of material world biology i was clearing my doubts for eg if i am asked about water in science exam i am supposed to answer 2 atoms of hydrogen covalently bonded to 1 atom of oxygen ,if my answer is related to VARUNA DEVA then i will get zero ,i hope you understand my point,so from this view point i was searching an explanation though you have cleared my doubts wonderfully ,i got my answer aswell, from philosophical viewpoint and i am 100% satisfied.As PRABHUPADAJI said focus more on spiritual upliftment and stop thinking about material energy etc likewise even you have directed me on the right path of chant & be happy .I pay my respect plus thanks from the core of my heart.
            Hari bol.

          • Hare Krishna Nidhi

            Yes. Obviously some things which are not directly connected to Krishna consciousness that are in our duty we just have to learn it and do it, but we have to always remember Krishna. And there is a story about an axe. It is made from a tree and with that axe the whole forest can be chopped down. So if you do actually learn all the nonsense of the material scientists you can use that knowledge later to destroy the demonic materialistic athiestic ideas that science has introduced.

            Science is really the religion of the atheists. It is not a true search for knowledge. Science is a search for a ‘logical’ way to explain everything without invoking God or any spiritual force at all.

            Scientists are so stupid that they believe there is nothing beyond earth, water, fire and ether. And many of them do not even believe in the ether…

            They do not believe in life, in the spiritual energy. They believe life is the result of a combination of chemicals. But they can not combine chemicals and produce life. They are such rascals. And such idiots.

            Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

            Madhudvisa dasa

  2. The Genes and the Soul
    April 8, 2012 by Madhudvisa dasa

    Dear author,
    thanks a lot for your beautiful article. It gave me a most importnat answer!

    In earlier times I had become aware thru direct vision that cells have chakras. Yeast cells e.g. 3 “bigger ones” plus 2 “smaller ones”. At that time I did not ask for a soul level.

    I had also become aware that some body organs have residing godheads, e.g the liver, with 3 such godheads involved (I purpposefully do not call them entities). In healing one can work with them in some cases.

    Now my questions did run into ? soul in cells? and I found your very helpful article searching for vedic sources. From “soul understanding” I fully agree.

    I would be happy very happy to find some guidance to vedic sources where I possibly can find more on this topic. Unfortunately, I am not knowledgable in vedic scriptures. So, could you possibly give me some reading advice, and possibly connect me to some living people who do spiritual research on similar topics?

    I am very greatful that I gfound your article! Thank You.

    • Hare Krishna

      You will find everything you are looking for in the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. You should make a program to read all of his books. It will be very, very good for you.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  3. Rajesh Kumar Pandey says:


    Further to the message sent yesterday afternoon, I also would like to learn how the “original Karma” began from? I mean there must have been a starting point when the jeevatma was free from karmas, being original residents of spiritual world. So, if we were then sent to the material world due to our desires, then why were some sent as animals and the others as human beings? Would greatly appreciate and treasure your response,


    • Hare Krishna Rajesh

      Every living entity has a limited amount of independence so we can all use our independence properly or misuse it. So if we misuse our independence we can not do that in the spiritual world. Because misusing our independence means we have decided not to serve Krishna but to try and serve ourselves. So that is not possible in the spiritual world. Therefore Krishna has created this material world complete with maya who provides us with the illusion that we can be happy separately from Krishna. But this world is designed to frustrate all our attempts ultimately and thoughtful people after many lives of frustration will realize that there is only Krishna and they decide to surrender to Krishna. So it is like that. As far as coming into the material world mostly they are coming as high level living entities like Lord Brahma and then gradually falling down to lower levels.

      But really how we got here exactly is not very important. We are here now and it is a very bad place to be, a terrible place to be, we should be concentrating on how to get out, not how we got in….

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  4. Rajesh Kumar Pandey says:


    I have a question – We learn that Krishna is the source of everything, and also that the jeevatma is “part and parcel” of Krishna, but yet we learn that Krishna did not create the jeevatma. The two statements seem contradictory. Please explain. And if Krishna did not create the individual soul, then where did they come from in the 1st place? Who created them?
    Also, is it correct that Ramanujacharya differed on this point with ISKCON that he believed that the individual soul was created by GOD?


    • Hare Krishna Rajesh

      You are stuck in the dualities of the material world. We, the spirit souls, are constitutionally the same as Krishna, the only difference is Krishna is unlimited and we are limited, very tiny. Krishna is very great and we are very tiny. But we are the same as Krishna in quality. So Krishna is eternal, it means Krishna was never born and Krishna never dies, therefore we are also eternal. We are never born and we never die. Krishna does not have a beginning or an end and we also do not have a beginning or an end. We have always existed along with Krishna. That is what eternal means.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  5. Kowsthub srihari says:

    Dear guru maharaj first of all i would like to thank you for your time helping the conditioned souls for advancing in krishna conciousness. I am having a question regarding the soul. We know that the material body is made of multicells but does each cell has separate soul or does the whole body has one soul and how does the working takes place? Thanks for your time prabhuji.

    • Hare Krishna

      We are the one soul who is in charge of directing the whole body. They may be many other souls in various ways engaged in the work of the body but there is only one soul who is in charge of and conscious of the whole body. So the whole body has one soul and the working takes place by the sanction of Krishna and with the help of the demigods. The soul is not actually capable of directly controlling the body. The soul desires and Krishna sanctions the desire and the actual action is carried out with the help of the demogods. So it is a rather complex process. But basically the soul desires that he lift his arm and his arm lifts but there is a complex chain of events that actually cause the lifting of the arm that are not completely under the control of the soul.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

    • Kowsthub srihari says:

      Hare krishna guruji. Thanks for your reply i was very satisfied with your answers.

  6. Brijesh Dani says:

    Dear Madhudvisa Prabhu,

    As you said that the soul in the conditioned state is not even in control of this body.
    My question is that when the soul becomes liberated, is the soul able to
    control his spiritual body?
    and it is said that the soul has more freedom and independence in the liberated state then what is the meaning and scope of this freedom ?

    thanks a lot for all the enlightening answers

    • Hare Krishna Brijesh

      In the liberated state there is no difference between the soul and his spiritual body. It is not that we will ever be independent. We, as souls are eternally servants. The difference is that in the material world we are serving maya or illusion but in our liberated state in the spiritual world we will be serving Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we will always be servants. But serving Krishna is very nice and that you will discover for yourself as you advance in Krishna consciousness. It is completely different from serving maya in the material world.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  7. srinivas subban says:

    Well how about this. You have a clone of a person who died and once the clone was born God makes the same soul reborn back to his previous body type, that way you have the same mental and subtle material body yet again inhabit the same type of physical gross body. But I think even in this case it would not be completely similar as the astrological chart at birth for these two bodies has to be similiar.

    • Namesake says:

      This is only possible if that living entity has the right karma to enter that particular body , which would defeat the entire purpose of controlling material nature right?
      For this to happen one has to defy the authority of demigods , as demigods control such doings but even then what is the use ?
      If one is actually able to outpower demigods (which is indeed very rare occurrence in the first place , what to say of such weak people in this Kali yuga?) ultimately they get defeated by supreme lord in one way or other (read srimad bhagvatam )

      So let’s not chew the chewed and move on.

      • Namesake says:

        In one occurrence Narada Muni by his great mystic power brought back a dead child who was poisoned by his father’s envious queens (i do not remember the specific source for that , sorry ) for a short amount of time.
        So it is possible to do that by mystic power but it all comes down to the purpose of such a action ,Narada Muni need less to say is a very great pure devotee and a great spiritual master too so he was acting on behalf of supreme personality of godhead.
        In the end such things will not put a end to the sufferings of material world only pure devotional service can make us actually happy.
        And great mystic power does not mean you become god as there is only one supreme mystic ; Sri Krishna who is known as Yogesvara.

  8. Tushar Sharma says:

    I just have a doubt related to this article, i may not be right but just answer my question madhuvisa dasa ji..please!!
    I thought there was only one soul that is the subordinate controller to the supreme controller(Lord Krishna)(who is present with every living entity as his best friend) in the heart of the human body and the living force which is the main element of the body and the rest of it is material gross body…
    is it true that all the multicellular organisms including us have many living entities in the’s just that they are in a low level of consciousness than us..?? prabhupadaji never told us about that in Bhagavad Gita As It Is; they just told us that we are part and parcel of supreme lord and we are subordinate to him and human body is just a temporary material clothing that covers the living entity throughout his struggles in this material world.
    they never said humans have many living entities in their body, they just talked about one living entity which is the living force in the body and it is through which our heart beats and it is the main energy resource, though it seems like we are the real controller but actually it is the supreme lord Krishna who is the real and supreme controller.
    i know that trees or plants might have many living entities but i am not sure about human body ??

    • Hare Krishna Tushar

      You need to study the teachings of Srila Prabhupada more. He has said that within the body there are many living entities. But we, I, you, are one individual spirit soul and we are the consciousness that is pervading this entire body. There are many other living entities but we are the one soul who is the consciousness that is pervading this body.

      However the body is working it is my body and I am the all-pervading consciousness within the body. But I am not actually the doer. The way the body is working is very subtle and it is fully described by Srila Prabhupada. You can not just read Bhagavad Gita. You need to read all of Srila Prabhuapda’s books if you want to understand this. Actually we are not directly controlling this body. We, the soul, the consciousness, have a desire. Say I desire to move my hand. That is all I can do, desire. For that desire to be fulfilled there needs to be the sanction of Krishna and then there is a interaction of various demigods and different aspects of the material energy to actually move my hand.

      Prabhupada gives the example many times that we are not in control even of the movements of our body. At any moment our hand may become paralyzed and we can not move it any more.

      So these things are quite deep and require a deeper study than just Bhagavad-gita. Bhagavad-gita is ABC, introduction, for more detailed information you need to study Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, and Srila Prabhupada’s other books.

      So please become addicted to reading Srila Prabhupada’s books and you will find that magically, with every turn of the page, more and more of your questions will be answered in such a satisfying way.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

      • Tushar Sharma says:

        thanks madhudvisa dasa ji for the reply….
        and I promise to read all of His Divine Grace Shrila Prabupadaji’s books …as they are very enlightening and satisfying..and now I trying to chant HARE KRISHNA MAHAMANTRA..and trying to follow exactly what vedas say not making my own ways to worship..and it does work when I chant Hare Krishna Mahamantra it is more helpful and enlightening…and i will try to satisfy His Divine Grace Shrila prabhupadaji because that’s the only way we can satisfy Lord Krishnaji and Radhama..
        I have another question…i watched a documentary called Earthling; in the documentary it was shown that even getting milk from cows is bad.. because we take so much milk from them that instead of living for 20 years they die only for after living for 4 years…
        and i think it is also bad because we deprive the child of cow from getting the milk of his mother that he deserves..
        I know that Lord Krishna are a cowherd boy, but i think it’s on a completely different level when cows give milk in gokula vrindhavan they actually serving the lord and are enjoying transcendental pleasure in it and in gokula vrindhavan every one is happy and everyone is serving the lord in one way or the other….and when they came here 5000 years ago it was the sames as it is in actual spiritual planet Gokula vrindhavan…
        but i think it’s a different thing when humans do it we are merciless and we are just taking so much profitable things from cows (and other animals) and giving nothing in return…
        so my question is it is still good to drink milk when we know how much pain the cow has to go throw to provide us with milk..??
        maybe in india they are more good towards cow but here in america they don’t treat cows or any other animal in a nice way….

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About the Author

My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna."I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can.That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental!That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!

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