ISKCON UrmilaDeviOnHarinamWithIps2003Italy

Published on December 10th, 2015 | by Madhudvisa dasa | Full size image


ISKCON GBC approves Women Gurus…

At its annual meetings, ISKCON’s Governing Body Commission (GBC) discussed a core issue, the qualifications of guru. In a quiet, but radical move it was accepted that women could be gurus in ISKCON.

In the Vaisnava tradition, to which ISKCON belongs, the guru is a vital part of the spiritual life of the devotee. In ISKCON’s history, a number of gurus have deviated from the high standards expected of them and this has caused much grief amongst their disciples and in the Society at large. Therefore it is not surprising that it is an issue that the GBC returns to often.

In what many will regard as a radical step, the GBC gave formal assent to women taking on the role of initiating guru.

Dear Madhudvisa dasa I know that you are quite busy and I do not want to bother you. I also myself work 6-days a week and do not have much time eather, But please if you could answer this question I would be very greatfull. How can the GBC appoint women gurus? Your servant Steve.

Dear Steve

Hare Krishna! please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

ISKCON’s guru system simply does not work. They have appointed so many gurus who have practically all turned out to be bogus. This has destroyed the lives of so many devotees searching after spiritual life who have been coerced to accept unqualified men as paramahamsas, pure devotees. These devotees have been convinced to take initiation from “ISKCON gurus”, to surrender to them and to serve them. We have seen it over and over again, these unqualified gurus — while completely unable to deliver the real seed of devotion to their disciples — are very expert at taking service from their disciples. These “ISKCON gurus” accept service on the premise that they are pure devotees, liberated souls capable of delivering their disciples from the blazing fire of this material world (samsara davanala lidha loka…) But they are unable to pour the waters of mercy on their disciples like the rain which extinguishes the forest fire. They are simply incapable of performing the task the guru has to perform. That is to plant the seed of devotion, the bhakti-lata bija, within the hearts of their disciples, and then to cultivate that tiny sprouting creeper of devotion until it becomes a fully-grown healthy plant producing flowers, fruits and seeds.

So the current guru system in ISKCON has failed and the GBC more or less accept it has failed, they are always looking for some way to “fix” their guru sustem but refuse to accept the only sollution — take shelter of Srila Prabhupada. So this recent GBC resolution stating ISKCON will now introduce women gurus is meaningless noise. They do not have any guru-tattva, they do not have any qualified gurus, they have no idea about guru at all. So we can take it as the mutterings of crazy men. We can not take ISKCON very seriously on anything unfortunately.

The reality is a real Vaisnava guru is very rare, and he is self-effulgent like the Sun. As it is not difficult to spot the Sun in the sky — the Sun is self-effulgent — everyone can see the Sun immediately. Similarly a real Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent like the Sun. No one has to point him out, he does not require “authorization” from the GBC. Actually if a “guru” feels he needs to work under the authority of the GBC then we can understand immediately he is bogus. A real spiritual master does not work under any such eclestical body. He has his relationship with his guru and he works under the authority of his guru. He has to have the freedom to instruct his disciples as he sees fit. He can not work in a system where he does not have the ultimate authority over his disciples. The disciple has to surrender to his spiritual master and follow his instructions as his life and soul, and the spiritual master has to be a pure devotee, a paramahamsa and he has to have full authority over his disciples and must be able to instruct them as their absolute authority. That is the system from the beginning of time and it will never change. ISKCON’s GBC have styled themselves as the “guru police.” They have taken it as their business to approve and suspend “gurus” as they so choose and according to their politics of the day. No real guru would put himself under the authority of such a political body. He can not put himself in a position where he may be prevented from giving good instruction to his disciples. This may well happen in ISKCON if a guru’s instruction to his disciples was not in line with some of the politics of the GBC. In such a case the GBC could take away the “gurus” “badge” and take his disciples away.

No bona fide guru could work in such a situation.

So you can know it for absolutely sure that there are no qualified gurus in ISKCON.

This idea of ISKCON appointing women gurus is simply a joke. They have never succeeded in appointing even one bona fide guru, and they never will, because gurus are not appointed… No disciple in ISKCON has been properly initiated since 1977 and as we can very plainly see the whole organization has collapsed into a dysfunctional mess. Now they are adding women “gurus”…

The underlying idea is that the GBC think they can “make” gurus by taking some women and giving her a “guru badge.” But surely they have seen this does not work with all the “guru badges” they have issued to men over many years. A guru is not appointed by the GBC. A Vaisnava guru is self-effulgent…

So the GBC can not make gurus. All they can do is wait for self-effulgent gurus to appear — and of course they will not accept him — because he will not agree to be under the authority of the GBC… A real guru is very rare. And we are very fortunate to have the “gold standard” with Srila Prabhupada and we have so much access to Srila Prabhupada through his books and his vani (instructions) in the form of audio and video recordings. So we can take advantage of the association and instructions of Srila Prabhupada and serve him.

If a self effulgent guru appears that is nice. And really it does not matter, man or women, we are not the body. However, a spirit soul in the body of a women should act in such a way that other spirit souls in women’s bodies, if they follow her example, will advance spiritually. So the good qualities for a women are chastity, submission to her husband, shyness, etc. So a Vaisnava lady will not push herself forward to become a guru as we understand it. Such a thing is unheard of in the entire tradition of Gaudia Vaisnavism. There is no example of this in the past.

“As a man must follow great personalities like Brahma and Narada, a woman must follow the path of such ideal women as Sita, Mandodari and Draupadi. By staying chaste and faithful to her husband, a woman enriches herself with supernatural power.”

So it is not at all appropriate for a women to push herself forward and try to lord it over the sannyasis and brahmacaris for example. It would turn the whole social system upside down and simply create a great disturbance. Rather a pure devotee in a women’s body will act as a guru but in the role of a women. One can read the “Teachings of Queen Kunti” to see the great prayers of a great Vaisnava in the body of a women.

So overall, don’t take any notice of the crazy mutterings emanating from ISKCON, rather take shelter of Srila Prabhupada by reading his books and all the real knowledge will be revealed to you.

Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

Your servant

Madhudvisa dasa

If you Love Me Distribute My Books -- Srila Prabhupada

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23 Responses to ISKCON GBC approves Women Gurus…

  1. sheetal says:

    Dear Madhudvisa dasa. I want to become a vaisnava . Please guide me how I can give my soul to lord Krishna. Please guide me…
    Radhe radhe

    • Hare Krishna Sheetal

      Becoming a Vaisnava is a process. It is something like becoming an engineer. You can not just post a question on some website and expect a one paragraph reply on how to become an engineer. To become an engineer you have to study under the recognized authorities, you have to study the books, you have to pass the examinations, then you have to get employment and work as an engineer.

      So to become a Vaisnava first you have to find a bona fide spiritual master, surrender to him and serve him. And the only person who can guide you how to become a Vaisnava is a pure devotee of Krishna. If one is not a pure devotee of Krishna he does not have the potency to help anyone else become a Vaisnava.

      So the biggest stumbling block for the spiritual seekers at this time is there are millions of bogus gurus. Every street corner you will find a bogus guru promising to make you a Vaisnava. It is a business, they are making good money from it. But you will not become a Vaisnava in this way.

      You need to take instruction from, surrender to and serve a real pure devotee of Krishna. So I suggest you read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day, chant the Hare Krishna mantra at least 16 rounds a day and strictly follow the four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling and no intoxication.

      These are the minimum standards one who wants to become a Vaisnava must accept and surrender to. If you are not prepared to follow these principles strictly, read Srila Prabhupada’s books at least 1-2 hours a day and chant at least 16 rounds of the Hare Krishna mantra every day then you are not going to become a Vaisnava.

      Vaisnava is not a cheap thing. It requires actual surrender and service at the lotus feet of a real pure devotee of Krishna. Otherwise it is not possible to become a Vaisnava.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  2. Varna das says:

    Yes,perhaps animals could become gurus…to teach something modern to the GBCs…guru-dogs,cats-gurus and many kanguroos…
    of course males and females…it does not matter…guru is guru…and
    very often kuru…like the blind king…blind leading blind…what a future!

    • Hare Krishna Varna Prabhu

      Guru means teacher so in some respects we may be able to learn things from animals. But animal by definition has no higher spiritual consciousness. So animal can not become spiritual guru. Because his consciousness is animalistic.

      In the human form of life the women are less intelligent and do not have the intelligence to understand things form a philosophical point of view. So it is not that they can not be very pure devotees of Krishna, actually the simple mentality of a woman is very conducive to surrendering to Krishna and serving Krishna. Women have a natural instinct to surrender to God and serve Him. So they are very qualified to become pure devotees of Krishna. But there intelligence is small so they can not understand the philosophy very deeply or explain the philosophy very well. Which is no problem for becoming a pure devotee. Because understanding the philosophy has nothing to do with becoming a devotee really. What matters is one has to actually surrender to Krishna, serve Krishna and reestablish his dormant love for Krishna.

      The gopis in Vrindavan were the greatest devotees but they did not know philosophy. They did not even know that Krishna was God. The only knew that Krishna was their beautiful friend. But these simple women were worshiped by Lord Caitanya as the greatest devotees.

      But Guru, bona fide spiritual master, has to be expert in explaining the philosophy of Krishna consciousness, and a woman can not do this generally. Women are not philosophically minded. And it is not the position of a woman to become the leader of men. A woman’s position is to serve her husband.

      All the problems of modern society stem from the ‘woman’s liberation’ movement. Women should never be free, they need to be always protected. In her childhood she is protected by her father, in her young ages she is protected by her husband and in her old age she is protected by her grown sons. So woman’s position is to always be subordinate to man.

      We have to recognize and reestablish these practical things if there is going to be any form of civilized society on this planet.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  3. dean prabhu says:

    SB 12.3.33 — The brahmacārīs will fail to execute their vows and become generally unclean, the householders will become beggars, the vānaprasthas will live in the villages, and the sannyāsīs will become greedy for wealth.
    SB 12.3.38 — Uncultured men will accept charity on behalf of the Lord and will earn their livelihood by making a show of austerity and wearing a mendicant’s dress. Those who know nothing about religion will mount a high seat and presume to speak on religious principles.

    -srimad bhagavatam is only guru we can fully trust.
    -there is nothing beside him you ever need for self realisation and bhakty.

  4. Dasa Daasii says:

    Hari Om Tat Sat !
    Its good news!. Iskcon go back to our great tradition : sadhvis guru in Gaudiya Tradition. In Our Gaudiya Tradition we have a ” female” guru. But in Our tradition we are not men , women , animal, trees- we are a SOUL. and IF GURU ARE IN KRSHNA CONSOCNES ITS IS THE BEST WAY. SHE OR HE OR IT MUST BE IN KRSHNA CONSOCNEC. Its is diferent stage from ” varnaashram dharm” its JAIVA DHARMA’ . we must be bhaktas. no dualistic person like mayavadins.
    keep go on our old vedic tradiction.
    ps. in Vedas , and all texts we can find female sadhvis, gurus, and all types of position and roles. not like in 16 century west bengal. Pls read vedic texts more carefull. Pranam. Hari Om Tat Sat!

  5. Ram says:

    PAMHO, All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    It is a nice explanation to the query on Guru\’s. It is very true that spirit soul in its purest desire.. want to serve Supreme Lore Krishna. Based on their desire they are put in different bodies to enable them to server in that capacity. Spirit soul\’s responsibility in women body is explained in scriptures as you outlined.

    I wish these teachings are adapted by all the people.

    Wonderful reply from you .. Thank you

  6. abhishek says:

    Dear M Das, please share your opinion of the likely consequences of women appointed initiating gurus. In this Kali Yug, nothing can be ruled out. Will she able to handle relationships with her male disciples? What will be the mentality of women gurus? Please send your reply as soon as possible.

    • It makes no difference, man or woman. No one is appointed as a guru. That is impossible. The only way one can become a Vaisnava guru is by actually becoming a Vaisnava guru by quality. This idea that people can be made into gurus by being appointed by the GBC is totally bogus. It has failed every time with the hundreds of men that the GBC have already tried to turn into gurus. It will also always fail if they try to turn women into gurus in this bogus way.

      This is not guru. Appointed guru. This to bogus rubbish. You can not find a bona fide guru in ISKCON, either man or woman, because the whole movement has rejected Srila Prabhupada and has gone off in a different direction to Srila Prabhupada. So they have disconnected themselves from the disciplic succession, disconnected themselves from Krishna. So it is just a mundane religion with no spiritual potency at all. It is all useless.

      Of course woman is not meant for guru in this way. For the sanctity and sanity of the society woman have to act as woman and men have to act as men. Of course we are not these bodies and on the spiritual platform there is no difference. But if the society is to function at all these distinctions between the roles of men and woman in society have to be respected. Otherwise the result is the total chaos that we see in today’s ‘modern’ society. It is hell. Total hell. And that has been created to a large extent by these feminists rejecting the natural role of women.

      Krishna consciousness means to reestablish the traditional Vedic way of life. And that is centered around every man considering every other woman except his wife as his mother and the women being chaste, submissive to their husbands, shy. This idea of woman’s liberation and woman being equal to men is not the Vedic way. And this is not possible in any sane society. In any sane society women can not be given independence. At every stage of her life a woman has to be protected. In her youth she is protected by her father, when she gets married she is protected by her husband and in her old age she is protected by her grown sons. So at no stage in her life is a woman independent.

      So these ideas are just stupid bogus ideas from the American feminists. They have no place in Krishna consciousness.

      So please read Srila Prabhupada’s books and hear the real thing from a real pure devotee of Krishna. That will be very beneficial thing for you. And stay away from ISKCON. That is poison and will destroy your spiritual life.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  7. Lila Avatar Das says:

    It doesn`t surpriese the falldown of Rohini Suta. Unfortunately, I was part of his Sankirtan-group in Switzerland, when he still was bramachary. A cool-bloded, perverted, vindictive, sneaky and, above all, dark poor and ignorant soul who didn´t understood anything in his live.

  8. Carolyn says:

    This is so monumental. I understand many do not approve but as a western woman who has had great difficulty with western men (abusive, including father), taking a male guru is very emotionally and psychologically unappealing (scary). If I had been raised with devotees, it would be different. For those of us who come later in life or with bad experiences with non-KC men, this will help us get on the path. If I am lucky, I will be able to go back home, back to Godhead. If it is too late this life time, perhaps I can come back in a devotee family and be a proper female devotee.

    • You misunderstand the point Carolyn

      Krishna consciousness is not something that is on the bodily concept of life.

      A guru is not something that can be rubber-stamped like the Catholic Church does with priests.

      A guru has to be actually qualified as a guru.

      A guru is a guru and does not need any authorization. He [or she], if he is actually a real empowered spiritual personality, will automatically awaken the transcendental consciousness within the hearts of the people he/she associates with.

      So this whole argument is nonsense.

      The whole ISKCON idea about guru is nonsense. ISKCON’s mail gurus are nonsense, a total failure. Their whole idea of guru is wrong, so you can not build on an incorrect system and try to add women gurus to the same broken system and expect anything other than even more disaster.

      The idea of guru is to show by their personal example to others the way one should live which will help them become Krishna conscious themselves. So although we are not these material bodies and for an actual pure devotee, he has no bodily identification, so he does not consider the condition of his body as male or female at all. It is irrelevant actually for a pure devotee. But from a preaching point of view, one has to consider how he will act so that his actions will give a good example for others to follow.

      Of course there is a great war against men at the moment and so many women, like yourself are against men and do not want anything to do with men. But this is an unnatural position and from the material point of view you will live a very unfulfilled life in this way. Actually the natural way is a woman needs protection and a man is naturally in the position to protect and provide for a woman and a woman is in the natural position to serve a man. This is the natural way. This is the way it has always been in the human society before the 60s.

      So this ‘women’s liberation’, ‘feminism’, etc, which you seem to be a supporter of, is a totally unnatural system that has completely destroyed the whole structure of the society on this planet over the past 50+ years. It is a disaster. It has caused the women to act in a way in which they are no longer attractive to men and has caused a huge percentage of the men to have no interest in the women except to exploit them for sex. So it has been a disaster.

      No man wants a woman who wants to compete with him, who wants to be his boss, who wants to be his guru. That is of course a material, not spiritual concept, but it is the reality. A man has the natural position to be in charge and the woman has the natural position to serve her husband. If we are to live in material world with any sort of peace and happiness we have to accept these natural divisions between men and women and act accordingly.

      So a pure devotee in a man’s body and in a woman’s body will act differently in accordance with the body they are in to give the good example to others as to how a spirit soul in that type of body should act to make spiritual advancement.

      And for a woman to make spiritual advancement she needs to be married to and to nicely serve a devotee husband. That example is the best example a woman guru can give.

      So this is just the way. Your anti-male, feminist, women’s lib ideas are all nonsense. And men were not exploiting women like they are today on such a scale as they are now before this nonsense women’s lib movement. So the women have to take a lot of the responsibility for the way they are treated today by the men.

      You are trying to act as a man in a woman’s body. That will not work. A man’s body is different to a woman’s body. So we have to accept this and act accordingly. Unless this mistake can be corrected there is no hope for any sane life in the material world for anyone…

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Madhudvisa dasa

  9. not says:

    that is not true, ISKCON GBC did NOT approve women gurus, this whole article is a lie, do some research, before critisizing

    • The GBC have actually voted and approved of the idea of women gurus in ISKCON twice but both times, due to many complaints from so many devotees, they have not actually implemented this program yet. But the feminists in ISKCON are still pushing for this program of woman gurus, women sannyasis, womens equality with men, etc, etc, etc. But there is a big fight going on in ISKCON around this issue of course. A lot of members do not want to surrender to the feminist ‘devotee’ demands. But these liberated ladies will fight on of course…

  10. abhishek says:

    prabhupad is not dependent on Gita “distribution”!

  11. Neelesh says:

    Hare Krsna. Srila Prabhupada is the only Guru in Iskcon as He never appointed any successor But only ritviks which can be added further. Read July 9 th letter by SP.
    Also he says that whichever ritvik is near to you you take initiation from him on my behalf. If it’s the matter of spiritual master diksha; then why only Prabhupada will consider a silly distance near or far factor. So it’s 100% sure that He never appointed any Guru as it is not so cheap thing because those who are the residence of goloka can only become spiritual master.reference-
    “Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance […]So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krsnaloka” (Srila Prabhupada Letter, June 10th, 1969)

    Also he says Guru never falls down.
    So after all such references and seeing practically the cases of fallen so called gur if one doesn’t realize; that Srila Prabhupada never died and always living in His books to guide us personally; is in ignorance and needs to be corrected otherwise his/her spiritual life is in greatest danger.

  12. parker williams says:

    Agreed. Thank you.

  13. Sanjana says:

    In all holy places peoples make gurus traditionally .They pay x gold coins & approach guru on ekadashi about how to live life of a devotee .This is a great secret which lord krishna is speaking in B.Geeta .Krishna has not given any answer to question of Arjuna ,in geeta, when he asks what is the .This knowledge is secret & it doesnt bind a person in Karmic reaction .If you are unable to find a person giving knowledge you simply give the same donations to deity & prey I will give this knowledge to any 1 who approaches me on ekadashi & pays me 108 ,rs .In holy places peoples eat ,sleep & speak in a totally different ways .
    So in 1 iskcon temple in india 1 devotee approached a guru by paying him 108 rs on ekadashi .So this person had a servant who keeps doing -shuk shuk from behind when this person is listening from the guru .as soon as this person looked back the guru refused to give knowledge & then the person came out .
    So he approached many peoples asking the same question how to live a life of a devotee .Every 1 would answer him in a very low voice & run away .Now all over the world peoples are accostomed to speaking face to face in an audible voice .So it was difficult for him to understand any thing .
    So after some time 1 person was having knowledge of how to ask a question to a person in front of deity came to temple .If any 1 speak lie he incurs very bad consequences .In all the holy places peoples will tell you if you want to make money you have follow tantrashastra which involves breaking regulative principals & then giving charity to the service of lord. So the new person asked the swami do you not drink alcohol / do you not eat meat etc.& he confessed .Then sanyasi had kept a gunda to beat & drive out such peoples who knows the art of taking witness in front of deity .If you follow this procedure then the alter doesnt get closed .Deity acts as a witness .
    So even after knowing the consequences of being exposed instead of calling the person & giving him knowledge in 108 rs this sanyasee started driving out the person with gundas .So this person gave this knowledge of how to take confession in front of deity to his other desciples ( Who were from brahmin communities in india ).
    So they(Devotees from Brahmin community ) knew that simply by paying 108 rs they can beat this sanyasi on amavasya / take him on donkey procession & beat him with shoes etc .All these brahmin community devotees started beating him on amavasya night ,taking him on donkey procession & this is the beginning of rutvik philosophy being offered in 1998-2000 & then came harikesh swami’s unfortunate fall down .
    And there is a process if a vaishnava do some thing in front of your door for x minutes ,then even if you are fast sleeping you will wake up & come out .This process you learn in details in holy places if you offer some donations .It cant be given on internet free.
    So these devotees started harassing these sanyasis so much that this sanyasi was & is unable to sleep even today for 20 minutes .Day & night harrasment no way he can sleep .And then came bad news paper leakouts / publicity about Iskcon gurus ,so many court cases mud slinging etc .
    Imagine some 1 tells you pay x gold coins & approach guru on ekadashi in soft voice & runs away after you ask him question of how to live a life of a devotee .What you will make out of this convercession . Also supreme personality of god head knows some devotees may not be in a position to pay so much money .So some simple basic things could be taught in 108 rs . This sanyasi refused to teach anything & then this unknown person opened the scam .
    Mud slinging in news paper ,donkey processions ,beating with shoes on amavasya night , sleepless days & nights , character assacination & then came Harikesh’s unfortunate fall .. So this kind of small improper system of telling in soft voice & running away when some 1 asks you a question & not giving even small basic knowledge even after taking 108 rupees (after promising the lord I will give this knowledge to any 1 person who approach me with 108 rs ) has the beginning of Iskcon indias crises & IRs movement.

  14. Deepesh says:

    I dont know which HELL they are going to suffer after they depart from this world… if i would have been there in Yamaraja’s place i would have given them some low animals body for a million years to suffur, for what they all have been doing… they have NO shame at all.. tearting GURU(Srila Prabhupada) as an ordinary person.. no one ever can take his positions and what all plans they are making.. all Useless people…
    Simply take shelter of Srila Prabhupada & Krishna and Be Happy..

    Jai Srila Prabhupada..

  15. ravinder says:

    what is nonsense going in the minds of these devotees,how can they think like that? These all r cheap ways to enjoy a woman.These fallen gurus r cheating to people and pushing them and even many devotees lives to hell.But this is not going to work.They will we cursed by Srila Prabhupada and Krishna.


  16. Rohini Suta stuck his penis in His own as. Now he is finishing.

  17. RRDD says:

    I am spiting on every step that Rohini Suta and Harikes Svamy steped on Slavian Countries. Two of them have been performing Nazis tic activity wile they have been visiting Slavian Countries with the years.

  18. saurabh says:

    i like to take initiation wat is the process for this. pls tell me

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About the Author

My first contact with a Hare Krishna was a most merciful Mataji in Oxford Street, London who sold me a "Higher Taste" cook book in 1984 while I was on holidays there. I started seriously reading Srila Prabhupada's books in Australia 1985 and by 1986 Srila Prabhupada had convinced me "Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead" and "we should surrender to Krishna."I joined the Hare Krishnas in Perth, Western Australia in 1986. Since then I have been chanting Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, reading and distributing Srila Prabhupada's books and preaching as much as I can.That's my life and full-time occupation now really. I like it more than anything I've ever experienced before. Srila Prabhupada's books are so amazing... Even after reading them all many times they're still fresh and new. They are truly transcendental!That's it really. Now I'm just hankering to once again see the world chant Hare Krishna, dance and feast and float away in the ecstasy of Lord Caitanya's Sankirtana movement as it did in Srila Prabhupada's physical presence. Let the whole world drown in the ecstatic flood of love of Krishna!

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